| moose54 |
Has anyone had any experience in designing bass guitar cabs. I'm having my first go atm. I currently have a 4x10" Sovtek commercial cab and its not bad but it could be better. I want to get a better amp, atm I have eyed off a SS600 labsystems . Unfortunately my cab wont handle it and i decided after building my own HT suby I'd give the bass cab a go. :)
Atm i have ordered a 15" driver and have plans for that extension cab. I went with an eminence driver (been happy with them in the past for my bass) a Kappa Pro 15. So we'll see how all that goes.... I'm pretty confident that that will sound pretty good. However that's only half the stack i want. :(
I'd like a nice 4x10" cab with a horn to sit on top. Atm I’ve found the eminence gamma 10's to be the best option I can find. If anyone has a better solution or suggestion please help me!!!! Further more I know ****** all about horns so if anyone has a good suggestion again can you help me out.
Eminence also makes a range of crossovers to suit their drivers. They also come neatly packed for mounting in the box and all the appropriate connections as i would like them. However they are rated to 400Wrms. The amp i want is 600Wrms into 4 ohms (each cab will be 8ohm), and can peak at 1050W. From what i understand i'd want a cab to handle around 500Wrms?? Corerct me if i'm worng. The drivers will easily handle the 500Wrms but the crossover at 400Wrms might be a little small, and i reallly don't want to blow the cab up... any opinions????
Attached is my cad models of the boxes i have designed so far.... I did it in CATIA V5 and it looks kinda kewl.... O and if you are wondering..... no I don’t look like the mannequin in the picture :)
any help is appreciated thanks |
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| Le Basseur |
I can recomend you 2 tweeter horns:the first is the P.Audio PHT 406 ,used in Epifani cabs.VERY,VERY good sounding.
The cheaper version is IMG Stage Line 230/RD.
These two tweeters ate very much alike,and they look almost the same (P.Audio has,though,a lower res freq...).
As I already said,I'll give them a try at at,say,2,5 KHz,12 or 18 dB/octave,depending on your taste.
About the 10's,if you like the Eminence sound,go for it.They're reilable and good-sounding as well.
Plans for a 4x10'? Sorry,I'm not in this movie...currently Im working on a 1x15' with horn,and I doubt I'll ever need some 10's.
By the way,what's the design of your 1x15?
Mine is a perfect copy of Epifani T115...
Cheers, |
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| Le Basseur |
Maybe you'll find some interesting answers on your question on these forums:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/
and
http://basslinks.nl/forum.html
Despite of a huge amount of C..P , purely commercial approaches and stupid newbie's FAQ,you'll also find some interesting ideas.And people within the thematic...
Greetings! |
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| Le Basseur |
| Sorry...I just gave you a link you already have....:rolleyes: |
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| usekgb |
You might want to look at the Eminence Kappa Pro 10's. They are a cast frame, where the Gammas are stamped. They handel a bit more power also. With the cast frame, you get a tighter low end, better power handling, and a more rugged (read won't break as easily) design. I've had a lot of customers that are very happy with them.
Cheers. |
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| moose54 |
Hmm i'll have to see if i can get the Kappa Pro 10's here in aus... Just checked the eminence webiste and the lower fs looks like a heasp better option.... i must have missed it in my passings... grr o well. hmm next trick is to see if can get them here in AUS. We dont get the full range. But yeah at a quick glance like a heap better frequency range than the gamma 10's...
The 15" is a Kappa Pro 15. In a box i think (off the top of my head. I'm at work atm and my calcs are at home) of 145L and tuned to 50Hz. I did the calcs myself using WINisd. I think the ideal volume it gave me was around 179L but that is just impractical... 145L is enough if you ask me.. I got a feeling that may be wrong.... i'll check it later tonight (if i remember) and let you know.
let me know how you go with the horn. are you going to use a low pass filter on the 15" driver or just a filter for the high end? i have never built a crossover for a speaker and if you coudl give us a hand that would be great..
cheers |
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| moose54 |
| Hmmm I just thought i'd check out the horns and although power handeling aint everything i notice they are fairly low. I think the IMG went to 40W... I'm i'm looking at running two cabs with a 600Wrms amp wouldn't I blow them??? i know most of the energy is absorbed by the woffers but 20W or 40W seems a littel small |
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| Le Basseur |
Yes,you're right....you'll most likely fry the horn with that amp.
BTW,what kind of music do you play?And why do you need such a beast of an amp?(too many watts,for Heaven's sake...).
If you're gonna stick to the 4x10's on top of the 1x15' and cleverly choose the drivers (I mean the 10's,they're supposed to go up to 5-6 KHz),maybe you don't need the horn at all!Why complicate your own life with something unnecessary?Just because the trend or the look?Besides,without a tweeter you'll get rid of the crossover;) Like Ford said once,"...a piece of equipment what's not there can't be broken...."
In this situation,you'd be able to go on both cabs without any crossover,right?:scratch: |
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| Le Basseur |
| quote: | Originally posted by usekgb
You might want to look at the Eminence Kappa Pro 10's. They are a cast frame, where the Gammas are stamped. They handel a bit more power also. With the cast frame, you get a tighter low end, better power handling, and a more rugged (read won't break as easily) design. I've had a lot of customers that are very happy with them.
Cheers. |
Absolutely right.
Since I had some basket (read:slight deformation of the unit's geometry) problems:bawling: ,I use only cast frame units,no matter of the brand. |
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| sangram |
A 2.2 uF film cap rated at 1000 volts will be a nice 6 dB/octave XO for the horn, even at many hundred watts. If you're only playing bass on the rig, not much chance of blowing up the horns because HF content will be very low - just finger noise if at all - unless the amp is oscillating.
Inductors in a Passive XO for bass rated at 1000+ watts is ridiculous. Bass boxes don't need that - actually a terrible idea since bass runs closer to rated RMS ratings than a full music spectrum - a 600 watt RMS amp is some sort of a minimum for gigging, specially with a lot of drums and distorted guitars around... Enough to melt a coil or a dozen of them.
Maybe a steeper slope for the tweeter can be used 12 dB/ 18 dB, but the natural rollof of the driver at the top end should be used if pairing with a tweeter - no series inductor is necessary. If you're really worried about frying a tweeter you can add a fusible R in series, rated to blow at tweeter overload... |
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| moose54 |
Just to let u know the 15" will be a Kappa Pro 15 mounted in a 120L vented and tuned to 50Hz... Seems to be consistent with other bass cab designs.
hmm yeah the tweeter might not be necessary. The band I’m with is a punkier rock type style so I don’t know if the horn would be necessary. That's y I wanted peoples opinions. But if mounting a horn in series with a cap is all I'd need to do then that would be simple enough. The horn is just for simple attack and plucking noises... sometimes upping the high end on the amp can give enough with out a horn... hmmm I guess the horn was more of a challenge so I'd still like to know how to do it... I guess I could build it with out the horn and if I decide later I want one then I could add it...
y the 600 and not the 300 model??? Well the local music guy usually does me a good deal and it’s either $1200 for the 300W or $1550 for the 600W so y not have the head room????
To follow that sangram (I could chase up the calcs) but what frequency would the -3db point of the horn be?? How would that affect the impedance of the box?? The woofers are in a nominal 8ohm alignment. Let me know if I am correct here, but as the frequency increases the resistance of the woofers increases. By the time the high frequency driver (if 8ohm nom) kicks in, the resistance of the woofers would be high enough that the nominal resistance of the box would stay at 8 ohm.
Thanks for the ideas... keep them rolling :) |
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| moose54 |
| opps for got again.... I had a go at soem configuratrions with the Kappa Pro 10 and i can't get a nice response in my calcs.... the gamma 10 has a much nice response.... hmmm i know what you are saying about cast framse but it just doesn't look too pretty... |
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| Le Basseur |
About the horn decision:you look rather undecided about this....As long as you play the music you said you do,honestly I don't see any reason for having a tweeter....unless you want a Victor Wooten-like tone in your band:cannotbe: :cannotbe:
The 1st order filter recomended by sangram has the only advantage (beside of being a 6 dB/oct,not 3 dB/oct,as you wrote) of having the best behaviour regarding the phase and transient response.The BIG problem with these filters is that the cutoff freq must be calculated far away,maybe at an ensuring 4,5~5 KHz.Remember,there is a special category of horns for PA,able to withstand big power (the so-called "ring").The construction (and the price) of these horns are a totally different story.
As you said,it looks fair enough to build the cabinet without horn,wich can be added later (and tested outside the box,for that matter).
About the amp,OK,go for the bigger one,if the price argument prevails.As you said,you'll have some more headroom,not to speak that your guitarisd wouldn't dare to compete with a 600 W bass amp...:devily: :devily: :devily:
Don't worry too much for the specs of the Kappa Pro 10's...what's on paper can oftenly be non-realistic in real life.If I were you,I'd pay more attention on sound,not on specs.After all this isn't a very picky issue,it's a bass cab,not a high-end box!
;)
Please do some reading on how a crossover network works,what are the implications regarding the impedance,etc,etc.In short,the points you mentioned aren't of concern,everything is OK:
1.the overall impedance doesn't suffer at all because the existence of a passive crossover.
2.The rising impedance of a woofer can be liniarised by using a so-called "zobel filter",but in your case,it's more like a suplimentary pain in the a...Once more,the drivers have a specific construction,different of the hifi woofers. |
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| Le Basseur |
| quote: | Originally posted by sangram
A 2.2 uF film cap rated at 1000 volts will be a nice 6 dB/octave XO for the horn, even at many hundred watts. If you're only playing bass on the rig, not much chance of blowing up the horns because HF content will be very low - just finger noise if at all - unless the amp is oscillating.
Inductors in a Passive XO for bass rated at 1000+ watts is ridiculous. Bass boxes don't need that - actually a terrible idea since bass runs closer to rated RMS ratings than a full music spectrum - a 600 watt RMS amp is some sort of a minimum for gigging, specially with a lot of drums and distorted guitars around... Enough to melt a coil or a dozen of them.
Maybe a steeper slope for the tweeter can be used 12 dB/ 18 dB, but the natural rollof of the driver at the top end should be used if pairing with a tweeter - no series inductor is necessary. If you're really worried about frying a tweeter you can add a fusible R in series, rated to blow at tweeter overload... |
Right,folks,WITHOUT the inductance in a hi-cut network running at high power.Unless you want a free smoke machine..;) :bawling: :devily: :bigeyes: :bigeyes:
The cutout response should be solved by a special design of the cab itself. |
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| usekgb |
I would recomend goind without the horn. The frequency of the bass guitar only goes so high anyway. Also, are you building a full range PA cab, or a bass cab? A lot of the sound of the instrument comes from the cab. If you add the horn, you will hear a lot of string noise, hiss, and electronic garbage. There's a good reason that most bass amplifiers don't have horns. They just sound better without them. BTW, the last time I saw the Flectones, Victor Wooten didn't have a horn in his bass rig.
As for as the Kappa Pro's go, try tuning the enclosure higher. You've already got that big 15" doing the low end. Let the 10's handle the mids and highs. I haven't run the numbers on them yet, but it should work pretty well. In my eminence book, I have a volue recommendation between 5.6 and 8.5 liters. For 4 speakers, that would be between 22.4 and 34 liters. Give it a try with these volumes, and don't worry about making the cab go down to 20 Hz. You should be pretty happy with the results.
Cheers,
Zach |
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| Le Basseur |
| quote: | Originally posted by usekgb
I would recomend goind without the horn. The frequency of the bass guitar only goes so high anyway. Also, are you building a full range PA cab, or a bass cab? A lot of the sound of the instrument comes from the cab. If you add the horn, you will hear a lot of string noise, hiss, and electronic garbage. There's a good reason that most bass amplifiers don't have horns. They just sound better without them. BTW, the last time I saw the Flectones, Victor Wooten didn't have a horn in his bass rig.
Cheers,
Zach |
Having or not a horn mounted in a bass cab remains an open question.I'd not say that the bass guitar freq response stops where you think they do...it depends enormously on the bass itself,strings,pick-ups,effects and so on.Also,deciding wether to use or not a horn is,as I already said,a matter of taste and,before all,of the style of playing.Just think about Anthony Jackson,Lincoln Goines,Mathew Garrisom and others who use the tandem Fodera-Epifani.It's something wrong with their sound?I don't think so...
As for the Victor Wooten's tone,I never saw him "live",so I cannot have any comment on what he uses.When I referred to him,I actually meant on his "slap" sound and way of playing.If you're a slapper,a tweeter mounted in your cab definitively brings in another "flavour". |
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| moose54 |
34L???? that’s tiny.... its actually inconveniently small. 138L is around the minimum volume I’ll be looking at. That’s a standard 615x615x450mm guitar cab. I want the two to able to fit together nicely... hmmm the tuning frequency...
Some one answer me this and this may sound like a stupid question. OVER EXCURSION... this is what kills drivers yes??? other then clearly over powering them which will in turn have the same effect... now... when producing frequencies below the tuning point there is less resistance on the drivers cone movement yes??? thus reducing its power handling capabilities and i could destroy the driver.... tell me if i am correct here... that may be wrong but i'd like to know. (I lent my speaker design book to someone so i can't look it up)....
If this is the case, what is the max freq I should be looking to tune the box to?? As this is one of my first vented enclosure I’m a little timid about blowing the drivers.... and i really don’t want to have to pay for some new ones.... i know i need to expect some errors in learning this stuff but I’ll try to avoid any problems i can...
Thanks again |
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| sangram |
To be honest the only reason I suggested that particular value was that that was exactly what I used for building a little home practice rig for my Bassist. I haven't the calc here, but I guess the XO point would be somewhere near 5 or 6 KHZ, which gives the horn some relief from handling very low freqs. I also added a 10 ohm resistor in series to tone down the high end - this is to taste, YMMV.
I find the bass sound to be much better with the horn. There is definitely an added flavour by bringing in some some string noise. The overall impedance of the box does go a little haywire but the Zobel is pretty heavy duty (It's an amp based on TDA 7294 non-inverting config of course) so the dips and nulls in the impedance at higher frequencies are well taken care of - also because it's PA the Zobel (1 R/ 100 nF) can be a little 'stronger' to cure instabilities of long leads, etc.
This also takes care of the rising impedance of the woofer. The advantage we guitarists and bassists have is we can concentrate on 'tone' rather than 'hi-fi' so some speaker non-linearity may not really matter too much - I have unfortunately no way of telling you about the impedance curve - the entire setup was made with parts I had left over except for a transformer - and I have no measurement gear at all.
I know the horn will never get damaged because of the huge attentuation - it barely gets any energy anyway - except when my stupid little pianist plugged his yamaha into the amp one day. The tweeter wasn't damaged, but it was about 110 dB sensitive. The pianist suffered quite a bit of damage.
Again, I think the most sensible suggestion is to build without the horn - save the money, then add it and see if you need it at all, especially for the tone you want. That's more important than theory and guessing. Tone is everything when you're making music, and only you know what tone you want... |
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| Le Basseur |
| quote: | Originally posted by sangram
- except when my stupid little pianist plugged his yamaha into the amp one day. The tweeter wasn't damaged, but it was about 110 dB sensitive. The pianist suffered quite a bit of damage.
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This is a good one,I like it!
YES!!!YES!!!!
But..don't pretend too much....remember the old saying:"..Please don't shoot the pianist! It's the only one left!"
Cheers, |
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| moose54 |
hmmm sounds decent sangram.... might have a look into it. As for padding the high end?? I think i'm going to have to if i go for the horn, or it will be too sensitive.. I'm tipping you need a fairly high wattage resistor too yes???
Some cabs have a variable pad on the horns. I guess they simple use a pot, but once again wouldn't the power handeling have to be fairly high?? that is something that would be nice to incorporate as well...... so many ideas :)
hmm looks like you guys didn't see my last post either... I'm still on "probation" mode... if you have a chance and could look back (when it gets past security:)) and reply that would be awesome..
out
mark |
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| sangram |
Open E on a standard bass guitar is 40 Hz.
You will need to be flat at least upto here, if the boxes can go lower it's better.
PA and bass speakers are constructed differently from hi-fi drivers. Excursion is smaller and the setup is very, very stiff - ever driven a competition vehicle, then compared to a road car?
I do not think over excursion is that much of a problem. As you will see repeated many times on the board, it is the HF harmonics and clipping power that destroy a driver. There is of course a potential issue of having adhesives melt if you're running a speaker at 3x its rated power, but I guess if you're not deaf you will be able to hear the distress that the woofers are in.
Over excursion is much more of a problem with tweeters. It is difficult to hear LF products being passed on to the tweeter and since the tweeter cannot dissipate that energy as sound it disspiates it as heat. Tweeters are also built with little or no venting near the VC gap, so you have a cycle which gradually builds up heat and destroys the poor tweeters.
I hope that addresses the questions in your earlier post.
Yes, I use a 10 ohm, 15 watts fusible wirewound ceramic resistor in series with the horn. A small VC to vary the volume needs to be of impractically high wattage rating, though wirewound pots may be available. I know some of these pads have a couple of transformers for signal attenuation using impedance matching, not sure of the exact schematic but I have some amount of idea about what it could possibly be.
The horan may be very sensitive, but you have a lot of bass speakers. I had to pad mine because the rig had a single 8" speaker. The horn was the only thing you could hear when it was direct, without the series R... |
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| Le Basseur |
The horn regulator you're talking is not a simple pot,but a so-called "L-pad".The construction of this device is a little different regarding the average potentiometer;it's a low-ohmage wirewound device (4 or 8 Ohms),and has two wired resistances for high-power handling (up to 100W). Among the various models I recomend the ceramic ones (it has better thermal-disipation behaviour).Any average pot installed as an atenuator will burn out after a few seconds because of the power wich can't handle.
About the other topic,in my opinion,the lenght of the woofer's excursion is a very important issue!Aside of the aspects mentioned by sangram,there's another one,ignored most of the time by the manufacturers.It's named " the Doppler effect" and it affects the most part of the bass drivers.Personally,I vote for a woofer having the minimum possible diafragm excursion,having in mind this parameter before others. |
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| moose54 |
Okay buggered if i can get a response that loosk reasonable from Kappa Pro 10 especialy at a volume of around 140L.... If anyone can give me some decent numbers to work with i'll have a go at it... otehr wsie i'll stick with the gamma 10's.... i know they arn't cast frames but i'm an engineer.... so i need to trust the numbers before i build it :)
can anyone help???
please
thansk for the horn info i think i'll give it a shot |
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| moose54 |
hmmm back at the horn and i guess sangram you would be the best to answer this... and maybe you allready have but i dont quite understand. It's in reagards to the resistance of the cab.
Would i be safe in saying that the overall resistance of the cab would still be 8 ohm (if thats how i wire the woofers) if i added a horn with out a crossover on the woofer section. I'd assume that as only a small amount of frequencies would be heading to the tweeter.... basicaly my amp will only run down to 4 ohm. running two 8 ohm cabs in parallel will do this, and i want to know if adding a horn in that fashion will cause my amp to be overdriven and blow up!. By my logic i dont think it will but i may be missing something really obvious... hmmm |
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| Le Basseur |
| quote: | Originally posted by moose54
hmmm back at the horn and i guess sangram you would be the best to answer this... and maybe you allready have but i dont quite understand. It's in reagards to the resistance of the cab.
Would i be safe in saying that the overall resistance of the cab would still be 8 ohm (if thats how i wire the woofers) if i added a horn with out a crossover on the woofer section. I'd assume that as only a small amount of frequencies would be heading to the tweeter.... basicaly my amp will only run down to 4 ohm. running two 8 ohm cabs in parallel will do this, and i want to know if adding a horn in that fashion will cause my amp to be overdriven and blow up!. By my logic i dont think it will but i may be missing something really obvious... hmmm |
Even though it seems you choose another DYI mate to answer to your (numerous) questions,there you have my explanations:
1.You don't miss anything,you're just a little confused...
When you're insisting so much on the overall impedance of the cab,please don't mix two different things:the DC resistance of a resistor (driver coil) and IMPEDANCE (wich is freq.dependant).
2.Having understood the above-mentioned difference,here's the practical solution:
-wire your woofers in order to get the desired nominal impedance (8 or 16 Ohms).Don't build a high-cut passive crossover for them,as we're already conclusioned that's pretty useless and totally unpractical.
-build a 3rd order high-pass filter for the tweeter,choosing the cutoff freq.according to your taste.Eventually,put a "L-pad" BETWEEN the filter and driver,in order have a "volume control" for the tweeter itself.
...and you're done!
One last word:if you choose to build a 3'rd order filter,you'll have a 360 degree phase rotation,so the wiring stays as one could expect (+on+,-on- all along).
If you choose a 2nd order crossover,you'll have a phase rotation of 180 degrees;this means that,for the most correct response's sake,you'll have to invert the polarity of the tweeter AFTER the L-pad.However,this is subject of testing,since you'll maybe like more how the cab sounds with the tweeter out of phase.
Once more,no matter of the choosen crossover network,the overall IMPEDANCE of the cab is 8 Ohms (since each individual component:woofer tandem,tweeter has an nominal impedance of 8 Ohms),and not 4 or less.So,you don't have to worry on frying the amp.
Cheers |
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| moose54 |
thanks La Basseur! sooo are the roumors true???? are you really french????
Thanks for the help man thats exactly what i wanted to hear... started the construction phase of my 15" cab this weekend.... cut all parts yesterday, and started the gluing today..... should be awesome when i get it done.... so looking fwd to get these babys pumping.....
good luck on the tweeters..... hows that all going by the way? |
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| sangram |
Moose let us know how it turns out after you're done.
Thanks for the answer, Le basseur. I wasn't in town for the last few days - so good that Moose can start work...
Moose, as the frequency rises, the impedance of the woofer also rises, and it is able to put out less sound as the power to it is less. A tweeter takes over from there, and at any point, the impedance should ideally remain constant. This is of course a subject of great debate, and the winner is usually common sense - the tweeter has to take over the job once the woofer starts to droop off, so the crossover must be appropriately designed - else at certain frequencies the amplifier will be driving a lower impedance of two speakers in parallel, almost.
Also keep in mind that the frequencies in question are not that often encountered when playing bass, and when so, they are usually low energy components. Therefore your poor amplifier will not have to endure too much hardship. |
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| moose54 |
Yeah thanks sangram..... looks like this tweeter shouldn't be too bad after all.... a bit of tweaking will be necessary but shouldn't be too much drama...... I'll defiantly let you guys know how they go. will take a little while for me to complete them as I spend a heap of time with basketball commitments.... but now that I got the cutting out of the way I’ll be able to do some work during the week.... but to finish them completely will take a while.... I like to take my time so things are right and look pro.... I spent ages on my ht sub to get it not just sounding nice but looking awesome too...
I got a dig cam so I’ll post a pic or two of them when I complete them on here and let you guys know how they went.... probably revive this post by the time they are complete...
o I’ll stick a pic of my ht sub on here too.... just because I’m wrapped with how it finished up and pretty proud of it.... yeah its only a sealed sub but it was my first go at a speaker box of any type and I’m wrapped with what I got.... maybe one day when I not living at home and wont have people complaining about the space I'll pull out the Shiva driver and build a ported enclosure...
Thanks again all...
btw did anyone have a look at a reasonable solution for the Kappa Pro 10's in a volume of 140L+ ???? prob not but doesn't hurt to ask :) |
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| moose54 |
| the 15" cab begins :) :bigeyes: |
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| 22pauld22 |
Hey moose .. since you got a labsystem bass head have you thought of going the lorantz 10 inch that labsystem put in their own 4 10 .. they are quite the bargain and made in melb ..
go have a look melmusic.com.au .. nice guys there .. and if you rip one a recone is as cheap as ..
just an idea .. but I don't think you would be dissapointed
cheers Paul |
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| jurepar |
Greetings!
I recently checked alot of posts on designing a cabinet for electric bass and I hope I am not a too much trouble if I ask you some questions.
I wanted to buy an original Trace Elliot cabinet for my amplifier, but I spotted a good bargain on four 10" drivers. They are neodimium B&C 10HPL64. I am a little worried about their resonant frequency (61Hz) and that if I would build a cabinet with these in them that they wouldn't give out enough bottom end. I calculated some variations in WinISD and I am a little sceptic about it. I also have another cabinet with one 15" Eminence Kappa Pro LF-2 and only thing that bodders me is it's frequency range (up to 1.8kHz). I know that I could combine both boxes, but I have practice in two different places and I really don't want to move one cabinet all the time, so I would use 4×10" also for concerts (or maybe 15" too, but that would look like I'm showing off :D )
Thank you in advance for your opinions and answers,
Jure |
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| Brett |
| quote: | Originally posted by jurepar
Greetings!
I recently checked alot of posts on designing a cabinet for electric bass and I hope I am not a too much trouble if I ask you some questions.
I wanted to buy an original Trace Elliot cabinet for my amplifier, but I spotted a good bargain on four 10" drivers. They are neodimium B&C 10HPL64. I am a little worried about their resonant frequency (61Hz) and that if I would build a cabinet with these in them that they wouldn't give out enough bottom end. I calculated some variations in WinISD and I am a little sceptic about it. I also have another cabinet with one 15" Eminence Kappa Pro LF-2 and only thing that bodders me is it's frequency range (up to 1.8kHz). I know that I could combine both boxes, but I have practice in two different places and I really don't want to move one cabinet all the time, so I would use 4×10" also for concerts (or maybe 15" too, but that would look like I'm showing off :D )
Thank you in advance for your opinions and answers,
Jure |
Why use a 4x10?
A single Eminence 3015LF or BMS 15N630 is a correctly ported cab will whomp it in terms of LF response and SPL and not run into the typical excursion limits that plauge commercial BG designs. Add a simple xover and a 6 or 8 above it and you'll have a cab that will outperform just about anything out there. And it'll be cheaper, lighter and probably a much more useable form factor than a 4x10 which is merely a historical oddity.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368003 |
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| sreten |
| quote: | Originally posted by moose54
btw did anyone have a look at a reasonable solution for the Kappa Pro 10's in a volume of 140L+ ???? prob not but doesn't hurt to ask :) |
Hi,
140L is somewhat large for 4 of those, they seem to be spectacularly
useless at producing bass in any sort of cabinet but no doubt this also
prevents overexcursion when plied with massive amounts of juice.
:)/sreten.
| quote: | Originally posted by jurepar
I spotted a good bargain on four 10" drivers.
They are neodimium B&C 10HPL64.
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Hi,
4 in a 120L box with a vent tuned to 40Hz will work with some
low bass boost and plently of juice on tap. This is not ideal for
playing reggae but might be fine for your sound and is likely
no worse than many other 4x10's, + more efficient than most.
:)/sreten. |
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| jurepar |
I must admit that I have never really tested 4×10 cabinet (played a little on some though) to say that it's better than 15", but I really like them both. I also talked to some guys that say that 15" is just to muddy and slow in response, but on the other hand I don't play alot of really fast lines. I am really happy with Kappa but I like that bright (more defined?) sound that I have heard on 4×10, and as I said before, it bothers me that it can go just to something about 1.8kHz (slap just doesn't sound right, except in low frequencies where it rocks :D ) I have also RCF HF driver at home which I would try with 4×10 if building one (I tried it on my cab but it has a big frequency hole from 1.8 - 3.5 kHz)
| quote: | Hi,
4 in a 120L box with a vent tuned to 40Hz will work with some
low bass boost and plently of juice on tap. This is not ideal for
playing reggae but might be fine for your sound and is likely
no worse than many other 4x10's, + more efficient than most.
/sreten. |
I don't play reggae so that doesn't bother me at all. I saw that some other bass cab manufacturers rate their cabs from 35Hz up and as I see it, either they have one hell of drivers or they overrate their cabs (I hope I wrote this right :) )
Jure |
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| Stormrider |
I've been wondering what to do for my first bass cab. I think i'm going to use the Kappalite 3015LF, with the 8" Beta or Alpha driver above it. I'm undecided if i should add a horn, but if i do it will be the Selenium D210Ti.
Modeling shows that around 4.5 - 5ft^3 should be good for the 3015LF, tuned to about 40 - 45hz. The Beta 8" needs a small sealed enclosure, like .2ft^3. The Alpha could either be run open back, or in a small stuffed sealed enclosure.
I'll probably use an active crossover, the CX2310 from Behringer and a few hundred watts of power.
What would be a good preamp to use for this setup? Hows the ESP guitar preamp? |
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| jurepar |
I have to correct myself for the last post on why use 4×10". As Brett said it is merely a historical oddity. I have spend last few hours reading posts on TalkBass forum about those cabs, and I must admit that it changed my perspective on bass cabinets. I can imagine the advantages (I haven't actually heard this kind of bass cab live) and after reading all the written I decided to try and build one of these.
Thank you for your time and great replies,
Jure |
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