| _henry_ |
Alpair 10 Bass Wide Parameters (Gun Metal Grey)
for reference only
Imp-nominal 6Ohm
Revc 5.4Ohm
Fo 35.0Hz
Sd 8.99mM/N
Vas 21.0Ltr
Cms 1.84mM/N
Mmd 10.73mKg
Mms 11.22g
BL 6.25T.M
Qms 2.37
Qes 0.35
Qts 0.30
Levc 288.727uH
No 0.25%
SPLo 86.2d
Xmax(1way) 9mm
Power 35watts cont.70watts max |
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| _henry_ |
FO 136Hz
Revc 4.0ohm
Sd 2.73K-mm˛
Vas 0.96 litres
Mms 1.6g
BL 2.16TM
Qms 2.14
Qes 1.16
Qts 0.753
Le-vc 59.35 uH
No 0.19 %
SPL 85.0 dB-1/m˛
X-max (1 way) 2.5mm
Power 12W Max, 6W rated input |
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| _henry_ |
Alpair 10 FULLRANGE
Imp-nominal 6Ohm
Revc 5.4Ohm
Fo 40Hz
Sd 9.0Kmm˛
Vas 19.5Ltr
Cms 1.7mM/N
Mmd 8.75g
Mms 9.24g
BL 5.83TM
Qms 2.24
Qes 0.39
Qts 0.33
Levc 70.23uH
No 0.320%
SPLo 87.0dB
Xmax(1way) 8.5mm
Power 35watts cont. 70watts max |
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| CSS/XBL |
Hi,
Pricing for North America is as follows:
Alpair 5 $60
Alpair 6 $70
Alpair 10FR $129
Alpair 10B $100
All plus shipping
Bob |
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| Landroval |
| Ok. That sounds reasonable. Not TangBand prices, but I agree, the products are not really the same either. I'll probably have to order some for testing... |
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| _henry_ |
| that is still acceptable |
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| _henry_ |
is this good candidate for ML-TL that tune to 20-25hz?
i hope markaudio can give some more details soon |
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| vmps |
| all those are actually jordan drivers |
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| Landroval |
| quote: | Originally posted by vmps
all those are actually jordan drivers |
Well.. close. They have a different chassis, different cone color (and treatment/material?), different inverted rubber suspension, much more xmas so different motor? etc. I'd say they are evolutions of the past Jordans. |
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| inertial |
Hi,
Seems to me a strange frequency response for the 10.
What's that bad "peak" at 350 Hz? :confused:
Paolo |
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| thetubeguy1954 |
I was checking out the website for these Alpair drivers from Hing Kong and I noticed this...
==============================================
In 2003 E.J. Jordan and Markaudio started a collaboration on the development of a new 2" driver. The new driver was known as the JXr 6HD. Markaudio was responsible for the research, design and manufacture of all the components excluding from the cone and cap. Markaudio also carried out the assembly of the first two batches of HD production. The cone and cap came from a previous driver known as the Jordan JX53. These cones were developed and manufactured for E.J. Jordan by Roy Rodriguez, a well respected UK based cone maker.
==============================================
So it would appear some of us already have some exposure to drivers this company as had a hand in developing! Not to mention there's a present similarity in appearance between the 50mm Alpair driver and the Jordan 50mm drivers as well. So considering the cost of the Alpair drivers perhaps they really are a good deal?
Thetubeguy1954 |
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| CSS/XBL |
Hi,
Mark Fenlon and I met when we were both selling Jordan drivers and I've known Mark for these past years and have kept up with the changing times and relationships. One of my original connections was with the very modern looking black acyrlic cabinets Mark used to sell and I still have a pair.
Alpair drivers aren't Jordans. There has been no collaboration between Jordan and Markaudio since Ted Jordan retired and sold out to EAD in Sweden in 2006. Ted and Mark worked together only on 1 driver, the replacement for the JX53 known as the JXr 6HD. Jordan's new owners, EAD kept the JXr 6HD while Markaudio retained their own design (for a short time the J6T) which became the Alpair 5. This is the limit of the relationship of Jordan and Markaudio drivers.
The new range of drivers from Markaudio is totally different from Jordan. The basket technology, cone design, cone profile, materials, motors, suspensions, none of these relate to Jordan. The parameters speak for themselves. The Alpair 10 full range is quite different from the JX92. The Alpair 6 driver uses a conventional suspension and is a physically larger than the JXr 6HD.
Mark has worked entirely on his own, in designing and producing these new drivers. His long engineering background and production knowledge has been employed to make this new range of drivers. He spends most of his time at his design station, testing samples in a large anechoic chamber, then at the factories in Asia supervising the component making and final assembly. Mark also has a number of OEM customers who use other drivers not sold to others.
The only thing the drivers have in common is they use metal alloys for the cones. Metal cones are not unique to either Jordan or Markaudio. From old models from Victor of Japan (they made a series of metal full range in the 1980's) to JBL, Panasonic and more, have or are using metal alloy cones.
Markaudio is a design and manufacturing company in its own right. Their products are genuinely new to the market bringing more choice in full range drivers.
It is a joy for me to be Mark's friend and represent his products in North America. Those attending this year's RMAF will be abe to see and hear the products first hand.
Bob |
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| seanzozo |
| quote: | Originally posted by inertial
Hi,
Seems to me a strange frequency response for the 10.
What's that bad "peak" at 350 Hz? :confused:
Paolo |
That peak to me looks like an effective baffle step built into the driver for a normal width cabinet (8-10 inches)
It would work well in a narrow profile BVR where the BVR generates output from 150-200hz down - no suprabaffle needed
Sean |
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| thetubeguy1954 |
Bob,
Thanks for clearing up any misunderstandings my previous post may have inadvertently created!
Thetubeguy1954 |
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| _henry_ |
This is the letter i received from Mark
Hi Henry,
I'm glad you made the post on the DIY forum. We need as much help as possible to spread the news about our drivers.
Sadly, all my hard work keeps being related back to Jordan. I only worked with Ted Jordan on one driver, the replacement for Jordan JX53, known as the JXr 6HD. This collaboration stopped 3 years back. Since this time I've worked entirely on my own. So the new drivers are my own ideas on full range.
There's lots of info and comment about the Alpair 5 in Japan. They are buying most of the Alpairs.
Type "Alpair5" in your web browser. Google has a reasonable language translator.
Feel free to put this info on the thread, I'm sure it will help.
Cheers,
Mark.
i hope will cleared out some things :) |
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| inertial |
| quote: | Originally posted by seanzozo
That peak to me looks like an effective baffle step built into the driver for a normal width cabinet (8-10 inches)
It would work well in a narrow profile BVR where the BVR generates output from 150-200hz down - no suprabaffle needed
Sean |
Hi Sean,
IMO It is strange. Not pistonic in that range?
cheers,
Paolo |
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| EUVL |
Anyone can help to post some data of the Alpair 6 Round here ?
I checked the website, clicked onto Specification & Frequency Chart, but nothing appeared on my browser.
Thanks,
Patrick |
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| Landroval |
| quote: | Originally posted by EUVL
Anyone can help to post some data of the Alpair 6 Round here ?
I checked the website, clicked onto Specification & Frequency Chart, but nothing appeared on my browser.
Thanks,
Patrick |
Try some other browser. Works fine for me with Firefox and Opera. Or you might need some addon, dunno if its flash or what. |
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| Henkjan |
I did a few sims for the FR alpair10, parameters will give plenty of freedom to choose the cabinet size.. I would myself probably go for the SBB4 or slightly larger with the same tune, but smaller BR cabinets are possible (even as small as 6 liters tuned @40Hz will give a nice response).
I just received a pair, so now I must "just" find the time to build some cabs and test them |
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| inertial |
Hi ,
I am intrigued by the alpair10 woofer. It has a worse frequency response than the fullrange10, very strange and cost 30 buks less:confused:
Cheers,
Paolo |
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| RayO |
I'm a newbie to all this speaker building stuff so please make allowances for my inexperience. I believe the beauty of a speaker is in the ear of the beholder, so the following is just one man's opinion and nothing more.
I received a pair of Alpair 10 Full Range drivers a few days ago and installed them in a (thrown together) bass reflex enclosure. The internal dimensions are 35cm High x 18cm Wide x 22cm Deep with a port that's 4cm Dia x 14 cm Long. I used about 20mm felt damping on the top, sides, back, and a bit between the driver and the port. All in all, a very basic loudspeaker enclosure. The driver's designer (Mark Fenlon) gave me the starting enclosure volume and the port dimensions.)
The drivers were well packaged and arrived in perfect condition. They are, for lack of a better word, beautiful. The fit and finish is perfect and I felt like I was handling a precision machine.
I was considering the Jordan JX92 before I decided to go with Alpair 10 and now, I am ever so pleased that I did. After a few minutes of listening to various samples of my music collection and experimenting with the position of the speakers, I put on a Diana Krall album and quickly found myself immersed in the music. I wasn't listening to the speakers (they quickly disappeared) I was listening to the music. It felt like I had a front row center seat and she was right there, in front of me. I could close my eyes and visualize where every instrument was on the stage. I could hear the brushes on the cymbals, her every breath, when the guitar player slid his fingers to a different position, I could go on and on but I'm sure you get the idea.
Another thing I was pleasantly surprised with was the ability of these little gems to play *LOUD*. In my humble opinion, not only do these drivers match or beat the Jordans in accuracy, they can "crank up the volume" too. I put on some good old rock and roll and couldn't resist the temptation to see what they could do. Well... They can go a lot louder than *I* want to listen to and they can do it without getting "harsh" or "muddy". In fact, they can comfortably handle everything my little old Arcam Alpha 6 can throw at them and serve it up clear and clean.
Before I started this project, I was thinking about adding a sub to fill in the bottom but now, I don't feel like a sub is necessary at all. I don't know how they did it, but the Alpair 10 truly deserves the title of "full range driver". The base is tight and defined with no hint of "boom". A bass drum sounds like a base drum and when the musician plucks a stringed double base, it *doesn't* sound like an electric base guitar.
Bottom line... I am delighted with the Alpair 10 and would love for the speaker guru's here to help this mere mortal out with enclosure ideas that would do justice to this driver. Now, I wish I'd built those boxes better. They might have been keepers. |
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| spedmetal |
I just ordered a pair of Alpair 10 FRs and now im looking for an enclosure for them.
The BR cabinet mentioned above would probably work fine, but im thinking MLTL or BLH. Is it possible for this driver to work well on a BLH? Can anyone recommend a suitable horn for the job? |
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| lazenna |
| I think a lot of us diy'ers would love to see Mark come up with say, a 10 or 12 or even 15 inch full range a'la Tannoy.With the excellent look and build quality of his driver's that would really be something. |
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| _henry_ |
Hi RayO,
nice to know a fellow audio enthusiast in philippines.
im currently living in pasig and do some business here in manila, philippines. in which city are u residing? will u be kindly to invite me to audition the alpairs? i used the jordans before, and im planning to get the alpairs and maybe visit mark in hongkong in the next 2 weeks
cheers
henry |
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| RayO |
Hi Henry,
I'm located in Bacolod City, Negros Occidental. I am, very much, enjoying the Alpair 10's.
Ray |
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| RayO |
Henry,
I tried to send you an email but, I can't since I am a new member and still under moderation. Contact me off list and I will be happy to tell you how to get here and let you hear the Alpairs.
Ray |
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| _henry_ |
hi ray, my email is chenhenry218@gmail.com, you can email me anytime
i would love to come to your place, thanks for the invitation.
what is system now? i have nad amp and arcam cd player that im planning to run the alpairs.
cheers
henry |
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| spedmetal |
Hi,
I just got my Alpair 10 FR drivers and im burning them in on the floor. Ive been searching for some info on BLH cabinets, but as my knowledge on this subject is very limited, its been needles in hay. So if anyone can tell me is it possible to get good sound out of that combo, id be very happy. And if someone could suggest a cabinet desing to use, that would be just awesome! |
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| Henkjan |
| won't fit in a normal Needle :confused: or do you plan to widen them? |
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| spedmetal |
| Hmm, well.. I still havent found a horn that convinced me, so Im thinking on building a Bruce BVR. One thing that worries me, is the X-max of the Aplair compared to the Fostex. So is there a possibility that the alpair will sound boomy in a Bruce? Of course the alpair is much smaller, but still, is this a real concern? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by spedmetal
Hmm, well.. I still havent found a horn that convinced me, so Im thinking on building a Bruce BVR. One thing that worries me, is the X-max of the Aplair compared to the Fostex. So is there a possibility that the alpair will sound boomy in a Bruce? Of course the alpair is much smaller, but still, is this a real concern? |
Isn't the Alpair 10 a 4" driver? Bruce was designed for the 8" Fostex. Harvey might work, but a cabinet is designed for a driver, just plopping in another one is a gamble.
dave |
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| Henkjan |
| the alpair10 is more like a 5". is there no Fostex horn that would suite? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Henkjan
the alpair10 is more like a 5". is there no Fostex horn that would suite? |
The Fostex horns are designed for specific Fostex drivers.
If you want to try boxes other than those designed for the Alpair 10, take it's T/S parameters (in particular, Fs, Vas, Qt) and find a driver with similar specs then go looking for boxes for it (complicated by factory data seldom being what we find when we measure them).
Keep in mind that BVRs (like Harvey/Bruce) & ML-TLs are probably more tolerant of differences.
dave |
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| alspe |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
If you want to try boxes other than those designed for the Alpair 10, take it's T/S parameters (in particular, Fs, Vas, Qt) and find a driver with similar specs then go looking for boxes for it (complicated by factory data seldom being what we find when we measure them).
Keep in mind that BVRs (like Harvey/Bruce) & ML-TLs are probably more tolerant of differences.
dave |
What boxes are desingned for Alpair 10 FR? I haven't found anything. I am considering Konus Essence clone, the one used with Jordan JX92s. Very nice looking speaker.
:)
Spedmetal, have you wrote here? |
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| CSS/XBL |
Hi,
I'm currently building them ported in 13 litres tuned to 45Hz and will report later. For higher power handling an 8 litre design was suggested but I'm not aware of that being built.
Dr Jim Griffin is also working on a MLTL design which will be published later this month.
Bob |
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| _henry_ |
its nice to hear Dr Jim Griffin is doing ML-TL for Alpair, we know he had a big success for the JX92S with this mini monitor and mltl.
can't wait to hear the result.
cheers |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by alspe
What boxes are desingned for Alpair 10 FR? |
Like any new drivewr, it takes some time to get them out into the field and get some designs going.
dave |
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| MJK |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Like any new drivewr, it takes some time to get them out into the field and get some designs going.
|
I have looked at three of the Alpair drivers in a couple of enclosure concepts, including resonant enclosures (TL's) and even some OB concepts, and they look very promising. If the manufacturer's specs are accurate I think the drivers might generate really high perfromance designs at very reasonable prices. The one thing I do find confusing is the two different color cone options which seem to offer different performance trade-offs according to the manufacturer's website. |
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| Jim Griffin |
Let me check-in to say that I do have a design cooking for the Alpair 10 which is a MLTL. I started with the GM 48" Jordan JX92S (also used in my Jordan with a ribbon MLTL version) dimensions. Using Martin's spread sheets quickly yielded a suitable design for the A10. I'll report in a couple of weeks when the assembly is complete and I've had a chance to listen. Looks very reasonable so far.
Jim Griffin |
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| CSS/XBL |
Hi,
I'll have Mark look at this when he gets up but I think the only case where there is a spec difference indicated by colour is with the 2 Alpair5 models.
The Alpair6 units are denoted by basket shape and the Alpair 10s come in either full range or bass and I don't think there's any spec difference between the 2 different colour Alpair10 full range. The Alpair10 bass unit was designed to match the Alpair5 with the same colour.
Bob |
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| spedmetal |
Thanks guys for the input. Its been a great help!
| quote: | Originally posted by alspe
What boxes are desingned for Alpair 10 FR? I haven't found anything. I am considering Konus Essence clone, the one used with Jordan JX92s. Very nice looking speaker.
:)
Spedmetal, have you wrote here? |
There are 2 designs on the MarkAudio website:
http://www.markaudio.com/plan/alp-10
http://www.markaudio.com/plan/alpair-10-simple
Ive heared the Konus clone, and owned the smaller GM MLTL and I liked the mass loaded better. Both with Jordans.
MLTL would propably work best, but still I think ill try the Harvey. If they suck together, I can allways go MLTL..
No I havent written there. How so? |
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| eeyore |
These sound like a great speaker to test with, and to compare to the JX92s. I have a pair of the Jordans and am building a sealed enclosure, with a mating subwoofer, and was thinking of building a very similar Alpair 10 to compare with. The price of the A10 is very appealing.
What are the opinions of the 10 to 20 litre sealed enclosure?
Just how far down does the A10 really go in a correctly design enclosure, like ported or MLTL design? |
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| Jim Griffin |
The Alpair 10 models to a F3 in the 35 Hz area in my MLTL simulations. It models a few Hzs lower than my Jordan JX92S version MLTL. Of course like any TL or ported speaker you have limited power handling for low frequencies--especially below their resonance frequency. Hence, you will not have chest pounding bass with drivers the size of the Alpair 10 and the Jordan JX92S but listening to music will be just fine (the exception would be 32 Hz organ notes at high volume levels and the cannon shots in the '1812 Overture'). Furthermore, don't think of them as subwoofer replacement in your home theater set-up.
My work indicates that a 15 liters vented box would work well for the Alpair 10. The box size wants to be a little larger than the Jordan driver needs. In an independent design Bob Reimer of CSS tells me that he is using a 14 liters cabinet with a 2" flared port at 9.25" in length (45Hz tuning). You can stuff the port tube if you wish to act like a sealed box.
Jim |
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| eeyore |
Jim,
Thanks for your response, that is why I would like to setup my system with a active crossover (3rd order) for and keep the stereo subwoofers to a low as crossover as possible, say around 100Hz to a max of 150Hz, and it seems that both the Jordans and the Alpair would allow this to occur. With this scenario, I could use a simple passive first order High pass filter, which given the lower Fs of the two drivers, could work well, except for some phase coherence issues. Which leads to me build smaller speaker cabs for both drivers, as the stereo subwoofer would be doing the heavy lifting at 100Hz and below. Can someone who has done something similar provide some info on whether or not the common frequency covered by the sub and the fr speaker in the 50Hz to say around 100Hz region needs to be controlled to prevent a hump, or will the natural diminishing ability of the Jordan/Alpair to really output high SPL in this region be enough to create a nice natural transition between the two?
If the F3 of the FR drivers are around 40Hz, should the sub be crossing over at say 50Hz?
Will play with the MC models and see a good combination of box sizes and volume. Further, I wanted to build this out of local (Australian) hardwood oak, and thus have limited board widths, which adds another variable to juggle. (Off note, but I built a pair of Fostex 127e dipole with the hardwood, with a french polish finish, and they look great, the sound is another story...)
Thanks |
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| eeyore |
Here are my preliminary specs for a MLTL design with the Alpair 10 and the Jordan JX92.
Overall Size with 19mm panels. 600mm high by 235mm wide baffle and 273mm deep. Volume at 21.4 l, minus various, approximately 20 l. 0.5 lb per cubic foot stuffing.
Port at 381mm from top (inside) 20mm radius port 100mm long and 110mm deep for A10. Driver mounted as high as possible. |
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| eeyore |
| Jordan SPL Response. |
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| eeyore |
| Alpair SPL Response. |
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| Henkjan |
| could you also post the cone excursion? and up the power in the sim to see when it hits Xmax? |
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| eeyore |
| Alpair showing woofer displacement at 50W. Xmax is rated at 8.5mm approximately. |
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| eeyore |
| Jordan showing woofer displacement at 50W. Xmax is rated at 9.0mm approximately. |
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| nietze |
| Could this be a contender for a 2-way with sdx7 or should one stick with fr125s or alpair 5? I'd like to update my FR125s bipoles to something a bit more powerfull and with more "kick" in the 100-500 hz area. |
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| eeyore |
This was actually going to be my two way active cross over setup, the sub beaing a Scan Speak 8656 Carbon fibre cone. Was going to choose a XO at around 100 Hz 3-order, and a simple high pass at around 100 Hz as well for the Jordan or Alpair. Since the cabinets are simple, I might make two sets, and when I get the spare cash (big hit after Christmas) put in the pair A10 and then I can do almost a double blind test.
My idea, turn off the sub late at night for more quiet and intimate listening (I have a baby), and then have the full rig on during the day for full listening. Going to power the Jordan/Alpair with a low power 1-2W tube amp (small listening room), and a LM3886 chipamp for the sub. |
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| _henry_ |
I'm planning to mate the alpair 5 with the 10's bass driver, and seriously considering using pushpull 2a3 tubes with 15 watts.
mark is recommending 40-50 watts amp to drive the alpairs, he pointed kt88 or el34 tubes, although he's using vintage 2a3 with good results.
im waiting for the right time to do this, since im terribly busy this past months. but hopefully on february will finish the alpairs
its nice to see this driver gaining interest from alot of folks :D
cheers |
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| spedmetal |
| Im burning in my Alpair 10 FR.s on the livingroom floor, and on a comfortable spl level the meters on my amp show power peaks of about 1W. The floor probably ads gain, but what im saying is they dont need huge ammounts of watts. |
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| oon_the_kid |
Hey all you guys who have tried the alpair. How do you find the sound so far? Thinking of getting the alpair 6
Oon |
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| Henkjan |
Alpair6 is the best 3" I've heard *), I can definitively recommend it. for moderate sound levels in not too large a room, also the bass is good. (I've tried them in the Needle (a ML-TQWT))
*) yes, it is also the most expensive 3" that I've heard, so no free lunch also here unfourtunately |
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| EUVL |
Could you kindly post some details (in a new thread) ?
Most obliged,
Patrick |
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| EUVL |
I shall try to be patient.
:)
Patrick |
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| markaudio |
| quote: | Originally posted by MJK
I have looked at three of the Alpair drivers in a couple of enclosure concepts, including resonant enclosures (TL's) and even some OB concepts, and they look very promising. If the manufacturer's specs are accurate I think the drivers might generate really high perfromance designs at very reasonable prices. The one thing I do find confusing is the two different color cone options which seem to offer different performance trade-offs according to the manufacturer's website. |
Hi Martin,
The coating processes used on the Alpair 5s alters the driver's performance. Cone rigidity changes when we use either our soft or hard treatments with the grey model's cone rigidity being higher than the gold version. This plus a few other tweaks causes the performance difference between these drivers.
The grey Alpair 5 is noted for its accurate clinical deleivery, making it popular in Japan while the gold verison sofer cone has a more mellow tone, usually appreciated more in Europe and the West.
For the other Alpair drivers, the coating processes used are similar regardless of the colour, and so driver performance remains the same. In these cases the colour choice is to give customers cosmetic choices.
We've done a lot of work over the past 3 years developing cones and caps with most effort going into profile design, tooling and sourcing multi-grade alloys from Japan and Taiwan.Combining all these elements has been challenging but satisfying and we hope to offer more drive choices in the future.
We are busy further up-dating our web site so will take another look on how we present the information.
Thanks,
Chris |
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| Henkjan |
| quote: | Originally posted by spedmetal
Im burning in my Alpair 10 FR.s .... |
and, have you tried anything else yet?
as a quick test I put them in a horn enclosure I had standing around (the one I had the TB W5-1611 in), and after some additional stuffing the sound was already very good, no notch, just pure full range pleasure.... |
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| EUVL |
Chris,
Could the Alpair 6 be made available in Grey AND circular flange if I order 3 pairs ?
Thanks,
Patrick |
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| Henkjan |
| check with Blue Planet Acoustic www.oaudio.de they are the German representative |
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| _henry_ |
i'm looking forward for TL or MLTL designs for the alpairs, but anyone find the solid wood sounds better than mdf or plywood?
cheers |
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| Landroval |
| quote: | Originally posted by eeyore
Jordan showing woofer displacement at 50W. Xmax is rated at 9.0mm approximately. |
The Jordan is actually 9mm peak-to-peak, so 4.5mm xmax one-way. |
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| Henkjan |
| quote: | Originally posted by _henry_
i'm looking forward for TL or MLTL designs for the alpairs, .... |
for the 10? in this thread Scottmoose proposed a MLTL for the Alpair6 |
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| _henry_ |
yes henkjan, im still waiting for the alpair 10 to play at my home.
:D |
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| Henkjan |
I'll try to find some time later this week....
I'll aim for a normal TL tuned at 40Hz or so.. maybe someone else can take a shot at a ML-TL? |
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| Telstar |
| Anyone used the 10FR in open baffle? :) |
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