| jzagaja |
| For those interested in a smoother Jordan JXR6HD modules. Here is a measurement of four Bandor 50 modules, single copper wound, eight ohms, low inductance. MLS stimulus, less than 1W, 6mm electret mic, relative dB values, cardboard as a baffle, 45 deg to the carpet. |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| And their picture. |
|
|
| graaf |
Hi Jack!
give us more! :)
what can be the cause of this depression 1500<3000 Hz?
Are there any significant resonances visible in the unsmoothed response?
regards,
graaf |
|
|
| jzagaja |
Hello Graaf,
Depression has two causes:
1) Very delicate suspension that result in "rim resonance".
2) Energy reflected through the cone from the carpet.
This means that one have to be careful with stored energy in the cabinet. Doreen called me one hour ago and she can straighten FR response but she feels it isn't necessary. You can get a better midrange from aluminium coil.
There are of course very high Q resonances above 10K but they are -25dB down. For evaluation I need better measurement.
I wish in this thread we compare 1000 times lighter membrane. My recent ribbon (appended picture) speaker is quite good however we have larger Q diffraction and worst transformer. In this week I'll get amorphous C core from AMS Irleand. A lot of parameters needs to be adjusted then. Ribbon also need a screen damping like in microphones.
I also made Jordan JXR6HD measurement in the same setup but response was bad so at the moment won't show anything :)
(I think better baffle is needed).
Cheers,
Jack |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| Another interesting approach is to use Bandors as very low noise and high quality directional microphones with a careful design like PJ Baxandall's differentiatior. Doreen seems to have many users of this kind. |
|
|
| graaf |
| quote: | Originally posted by jzagaja
This means that one have to be careful with stored energy in the cabinet.
|
perhaps a suitable cabinet can be a pipe like in "Yoshii 9" or in "Pluto"?
| quote: | Originally posted by jzagaja
Another interesting approach is to use Bandors as very low noise and high quality directional microphones with a careful design like PJ Baxandall's differentiatior. Doreen seems to have many users of this kind. |
geez! this sounds REALLY esoteric, fullranger as a microphone :)
best,
graaf |
|
|
| jzagaja |
I like "Pluto" enclosure but only if one has suitable reflector for high frequencies. Impedance peaks (n*Fs) should be carefully damped then. With anodized Bandors you can make wonderful looking speakers. Will try in future.
Bandors play much deeper bass notes than Jordans. |
|
|
| graaf |
| quote: | Originally posted by jzagaja
Bandors play much deeper bass notes than Jordans. |
no surprise - JXR6 Fo 80 Hz, Qts 0.45 and Bandor Fo 65 Hz, Qts 0.6
apparently at low SPLs low bass is not outside of the reach of such small drivers, perhaps this is also the case of "Yoshii 9"
best,
graaf |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| With acoustic music a lot of people can be satisfied. Don't forget it is only 50mm cone. I'm very comfortable with Bandors. You don't have to play music loud on them. Not only they measures well but has some magic. I've found imaging natural behind speaker line. Disadvantage is I have to give them back to the owner on Saturday :( :) |
|
|
| oon_the_kid |
Hi Jack,
Since you actually have both the Bandor and the Jordan, how do you rate the sonic difference between the 2. particularly the mids and highs?
Since the Jordan are out of production for so long, i am beginning to wonder if they will ever come back online again...:cannotbe:
So far I have tried the one from Mark Audio, they are really nice, but I guess I am curious about the rest....
Oon |
|
|
| jzagaja |
There is small problem with comparison. Jordans have 2mm steel box with damping (baffle width half of Bandors). WIth Bandors mounted in cardboard box I simply hear something is wrong (rumbling) with Jordans around 1kHz. CSD doesn't show any problem. What is clear - highs are comparable and I prefer Bandors because they have a bass and I can listen them without bass support and any effort with pleasure. Jordans for the other hand are louder and without bass so listening is a bit fatiguing.
And what is really important with Bandors you can chose:
- surface finnish
- impedance
- copper or aluiminium coil (has influence on midrange)
- single or double wound (box type)
It is now easy to order them via PayPal but you have to wait a bit especially for 150mm unit because of metal parts supplier delays. |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| Jordan thanks to special cone cap illuminates room differently. On Bandors you'll get typical falling power response and percussion for example will be shy, hidden and sound a bit dark. See appended in room response. Jordans are also much louder. |
|
|
| oon_the_kid |
So,
I take it the Jordans are a bit more lifely? From your description, but you actually prefer the Bandor? Since the treble is comparable, it is worthwhile looking into. what about the vocals, are they similar airiness?
Oon |
|
|
| oon_the_kid |
Hi,
Just realised that there are a few models out there from the webpage. I assume you are using the 50mm driver. Which is the one you are having? Where did you buy it from, the website bandor.com too?
Oon |
|
|
| jzagaja |
Bandor 50SW8 (single wound, copper coil, 8 ohms) is just smoother, darker more relaxing... and much cheaper. Vocals have mentioned airiness too. It reminds Manger transducer in tonality and imaging.
I have ordered Bandor 150 module. Fifties now gone to a friends.
Above module goes up to 10k. It's time to make ribbon modules for them.
The most funny thing with Bandors is that reviewers say that bass is deep but uncontroled and in the same time double bass (acoustic bass) sounds so natural. |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| I can send PayPal email account so you can easily pay. I bought directly from Doreen. Small shipping is 15 pounds for 50mm modules in EU countries. |
|
|
| graaf |
sound of Bandors is often compared to Quad ESL
so I expect that this is not a typical "audiophile" sound of "boom boom - tss tss" |
|
|
| woody |
| How expensive are these and where can they be ordered? |
|
|
| jzagaja |
We have paid 100 (50SW8 pair) + 17.50 VAT + 62.39 shipping = 185,89 pounds. This is twice as chap as Jordans. Standard letter.
If you'd like to buy just call Doreen (www.bandor.com), check if she can made them and if you like PayPal than I can send email of her niece to you - it should be quicker :) (it took one year for me to order Bandors ;) |
|
|
| inrank |
Hi,
i am curently enjoying my Little Bandors, do you know if there is much difference with how the voice coil is wound and the material? as you said you have the 'single wound, copper coil' what are the options and what difference might they make?
I hear that the new neodymium magents are on order, sound interesting if the magent/frame is smaller to allow more air flow behind the driver.
also, how do people cope with the lobing when they have multiple units, like 2,4 or 8/16 etc? Or would a Bipole with two 8Ohm drivers be a better bet?
Regards
Inrank |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| quote: | | do you know if there is much difference with how the voice coil is wound and the material |
Material - affects mid frequencies
Double wound - less box volume needed (for a closed box). Important with 150mm module.
I prefer low inductance (single wound).
| quote: | | how do people cope with the lobing |
Active shelving high-pass filter? |
|
|
| graaf |
| quote: | Originally posted by jzagaja
Active shelving high-pass filter? |
for His linear array of four drivers EJJordan recommends simple passive shelving high-pass, looks like reverse of popular baffle step compensation circuit
best,
graaf |
|
|
| Colin |
What lobing there is on the 4 unit array is only noticable if you are close to the array and get above the height of the array. In other words, they are quite directional vertically. In which case, the HF tails off a bit.
The Jordan filter is to compensate for multiple units at mid frequencies and below, to stop the sound getting too tubby. |
|
|
| inrank |
| So with a 4 unit array, lobing would not be noticeable in a farfield say further than 2m? |
|
|
| berm |
The Jordan drivers are usually better off-axis because of the rising response, as are a lot of other full-rangers. Are the Bandors similar in this respect, or are they better aimed at the listener?
I ask because one of the virtues (for me, anyway) of the Jordan array is the wide sweet spot when set up as recommended.
berm |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| According to my friends' response Bandor is too shy at HF - it is consistent opinion so for sweet spot one has to pay twice as much for Jordans. |
|
|
| berm |
Thanks.
It's nice that they are slightly different in this respect. Each will have its own best application where the other will not work so well.
berm |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| Tomorrow I'll send a FAX about this matter to Doreen. Personally next time I would buy Bandors for myself. There's something very appealing in them - they remembering me wonderful hours with Daniela Manger. Unfortunately I work now on my own ribbons an wait for Bandor 150. |
|
|
| oon_the_kid |
Your ribbon? As in building your own ribbon. By the way wht is the Danniela manger?
Why do you prefer the bandor, is it the bass? Than you can hear more, or is it the mids? Seems like the jordan is a bit better at the highs, more even, I suppose?
Oon |
|
|
| jzagaja |
Ribbons are significantly cleaner, down to 36dB or even more, performs well at low levels, have wide dispersion horizontally so highs are naturally very good, cheaper self made but much larger though. Easy to build with LR4 crossover - transformer inductance as a part of xo inductance leg. I still learn how make them good. Main problem is efficiency.
Daniela Manger is head of Manger-msw.de. They both share bending conception but Manger is a whole bending transducer, also has those mid frequency dips and I've got impression that both sounds somehow similar, especially imaging and little dark sounding.
I prefer Bandor because sounds is plastic, gentle and give me more pleasure. In room response is also more linear on mids. Jordan is a only a bit better on highs. |
|
|
| graaf |
| quote: | Originally posted by jzagaja
Tomorrow I'll send a FAX about this matter to Doreen. |
Ms Bance will certainly answer that You have a typical audiophile taste for unrealistic nasty excessively bright sound ;)
and probably she will be right ;) :clown: |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| It looks she's on holidays at the moment :) |
|
|
| Colin |
| If anyone is after Bandor bass units, I've just spotted these on the UK eBay. |
|
|
| jzagaja |
| Is this a Type - 100SW/4A? Bass response looks good. How does it sound? Do you remember Bandora? In Poland they had a really good review - 8 years ago. |
|
|
| Colin |
| I've not heard them, just came across them on eBay. I imagine they would be as good or better than conventional drive units. It's a long time since I've heard the Bandors (mid-1990s), having used Jordans since then. |
|
|
|
