| buggsson |
I've not been into car audio before now, so I need some help. I am looking for a 12" car subwoofer. Irrespective everything else, which companies manufacture the best car subs, build quality wise? What constitutes a good car sub?
I am also in need of recommendations for good books for beginners in car audio. Preferably covering most aspects about the subject. If need be, specialised books can be obtained at a later date. |
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| ppia600 |
| I think the pioneer premier subs have good build quality. |
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| jol50 |
| It really depends on your budget and use. If you want sound quality many use Seas or something like that...others use IDMAX for example, a more powerful driver. Also depends on what install and power range you are looking at. |
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| jol50 |
Here is a list from another site of subs people consider high quality:
TC Sounds TC9/Soundsplinter RL-p SQL/SPL subs.
Image Dynamics IDQ
Image Dynamics ID
Image Dynamics IDMAX
Peerless XLS and XXLS
Diamond D6
Arc Audio D series
Arc Flatline
Dayton Audio Titanic
Adire Audio
RE Audio
Soundstream Exact's
Digital Designs
Elemental Designs
Treo
Illusion Audio
Focal K2 series and Be series
I would tend to agree, though I would also temper that with your use. If you don't need the expanded capabilities of the most expensive sub then the money would be best spent elsewhere to further your system. And that list is limited, lots of companies make some good stuff but people tend towards the specialized companies many of the above are. A good sub can be many things; maybe a flatter response curve, holds up to more abuse, works in a smaller box, or has the output you need in your install. That last one is likely most important because the install matters more than the sub IMHO. I have used <$20 subs with great results in a daily driver. |
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| buggsson |
I should perhaps have given more info in my previous post.
- Budget is secondary, to a degree.
- Soundquality and good build is what I am after, not SPL
- My application is tapped horns
It has to be sturdy, it will experience some harsh times, due to the way the tapped horns work.
There are so many brands out there, I just wanted some help stearing away from the bad ones. I've seen a few new brands in jol50s list. My own list so far contains these brands:
Alpine
Atomic Speakers
Audiobahn
Audiopulse
Audio Top
Cadence
Cerwin Vega
Clif Designs
Digital Designs
DLS
Dynaudio
Eclipse
Elemental Design Audio
Elevation Audio
Emphaser
Fi Car Audio
Ground Zero
JBL
JL Audio
Kicker
Kole Audio
MA Audio
Magnat
MB Quart
MTX
Orion
Power Acoustik
RE Audio
RD Audio
Soundstream
SPL Dynamics
I have not been able to check out all of their web sites as yet, but I am getting there. Any input on these brands?
What about book tips? |
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| jol50 |
| If you are making a bass horn, people often use pro drivers or maybe like an eminence. I don't recall what a tapped horn is offhand, but true a horn tends to have different needs. |
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| buggsson |
A tapped horn is a different beast compared to regular basshorns. The inventor has used both PA driver and car sub, that is at least what many beleive. Most people have used PA drivers so far, but there are also successful applications using car subs. One that at least simulates well is MTX Thunder 95??-04. As most folks has used PA drivers, I want to go the car sub way. That is why there are only car sub manufacturers in my list.
Soundsplinter has a promising 15", but it is too large for me, need to be 220 cm tall. I will start with a couple of 12". |
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| jol50 |
I like MTX, I have a 4500 10 that works great in a sealed for what it is. Also check DD on your list, since they are so good in spl I am sure they are durable.
Does this horn have an issue with xmax? Most horns I have seen do not need big xmax thus the use of pro style drivers. DD is said to have less xmax than others yet they outperform. Dayton (parts express) also has some interesting drivers though most are not as hardcore as a 9500mtx. |
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| ppia600 |
| If you are checking mtx, look at the jh551204. 400wrms 12". |
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| EWorkshop1708 |
Speaking of build quality, I notice a lot of round subwoofers never have the cone or magnet perfectly centered. Some even get coil rub if you push on the cone unevenly. Another common problem is the dustcap getting loose and even coming off or the lead wires either breaking or slapping the cone from high excursion :rolleyes:. I have a spare MTX Thunder 8000 I don't use, I had to reglue the dustcap. :(
:cool:
I got a Sony XS-L120P5W subwoofer, and IMO one of the best quality built car subs, and not all that pricey either at just under $70. It has the lead wires in the top spider (2 spiders), not in the cone. Also it's a 5-sided pentagon-shaped cone woofer with no dustcap, perfectly centered, and a ribbed-rubber surround. And the glue holds well. The never version is the same, but is black.
The best part, is the incredible SOLID BASS down to 20hz, plays clear with no distortion, and NEVER bottomed out!
I've blown up one of these speakers and the only thing wrong is the voice coil burned up. The speaker construction itself is ROCK SOLID, so even though I blew up the speaker, I want another one. It played loud and clear until the point it blew with a flash of light! Highly impressive, being most speakers make a bunch of nasty noise when overdriven, this one did not. :bigeyes: |
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| ppia600 |
| I've seen several of those sony woofers burn. Seems like they are very sensitive to any amount over the rms wattage. I've also seen a few have the voice coil and cone seperate from the spider with some abuse. They do seem solid when new, but I'd be skeptical about buying one for long term. The reason I suggested the pioneer premiers is because I'd noticed the accurate build quality. Everything seemed perfectly centered, cone, surround and magnet, etc. That's something that I never noticed on other drivers like sony, fosgate/punch, kicker, etc. The kenwoods also seemed to be built very solidly. Of course every day these companies have the advantage of better technology yielding better build quality. The more difficult thing to find now is best sound quality. |
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| buggsson |
| quote: | | Does this horn have an issue with xmax? |
Not that I know of, but I always want to on the safe side, so an Xmax a bit over the projected need is nice. I have also decided to go for a well ventilated VC of at least 3" and a stiff cone, a weak cone easily wrinkles when driven hard.
Quite a few of the manufactureres in my list will end up on the NO NO list when I am done selecting drivers. Many have few, if any useful driver parameters available on the web pages, and seem reluctant to answer requests for parameters. I don't care to buy their products, why should I? |
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| EWorkshop1708 |
I considered purchasing one of those Pioneer Premier subs before I got my Sony Xplod P5, the only thing that changed my mind was the dustcap. , but
I'll admit, I'm a bit biased towards woofers with no dustcaps and spider-woven tinsel leads due to bad past experiences with other speakers, but you mention that the Pioneers are solid, so I assume you never had a problem with the dustcap. Also they do look nice.
Also, you mention Kenwood. It's been a while that I've looked at a few, but I do remember them having no dustcap as well.
What kind of Voice Coil is in the Pioneers? The Sony has a 2 inch VC IMO is a bit small. I never had problems with the woofer seperating at the spider, but I was disappointed how the VC melted so badly, but I think that I miscalculated the RMS on my DIY amp which is why it blew. |
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| EWorkshop1708 |
Anyone have experience with the Digital Designs subs? I've seen a lot of them on Youtube being abused, and even one was plugged into 120V mains several times and would not die! :hot:
Another one of interest is the Alpine Type-X subs, the rubber-roll surround looks really nice, and they have no dustcap too.
IMO a quality sub should hold together well, but also play strong around 20hz. |
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| Safe_Cracker |
| Out of all of those I would go with a RE SX , I had a couple of the 15" versions and they were just great. Stay away from anything mainstream. BTW the best sub I have ever owned and I am 36, have owned a lot is a TC sounds 5200 on 5K, hands down... :) Polo. |
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| dangus |
JBL used to make a car sub that was based on the same motor as their pro subs (like the 2241): dual spiders, vented gap, 4" voice coil. 1200GTi
1200Gti enclosure
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| djQUAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EWorkshop1708
Anyone have experience with the Digital Designs subs? I've seen a lot of them on Youtube being abused, and even one was plugged into 120V mains several times and would not die! :hot:
Another one of interest is the Alpine Type-X subs, the rubber-roll surround looks really nice, and they have no dustcap too.
IMO a quality sub should hold together well, but also play strong around 20hz. |
I'd go with DD. can't go wrong with them. what you get with your money is pure performance. no additional cost for marketing and chrome flames :dead: |
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| Safe_Cracker |
| quote: | Originally posted by djQUAN
I'd go with DD. can't go wrong with them. what you get with your money is pure performance. no additional cost for marketing and chrome flames :dead: |
Agreed ^^^ Hence, staying away from mainstream ****!
;) Polo.. |
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| boricuaso |
i love my TC-3000 15" hits every note with authority, it stays under control at high power and low bass, the sound is as clean as the recorded material. at least to my ears. lol
a great sub will sound like @ss in an improperly designed and poorly built enclosure.
look at the specs T/s parameters of the sub before you buy it, and make sure you have enough space in the trunk or where ever the enclosure system is going, for the properly sized and tuned enclosure in the vehicle its going for that sub.
you don't want to buy a sub that needs 4cuft enclosure and you can only fit 2cubes.
i have seen it happen often.
good luck. |
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| amc32 |
If your working with limited space and want very good sq and easy to build enclosure(sealed)go with the RE AUDIO,SE Model
I've used the DD,but was not impressed,with pricing,availability,customer service,and performance
But the Bottom line is Performance.The DD's in my oppion only performed very well in SPL oriented enclosures.Ported w/high tuning hz.and undamped enclosures.Just my opinnon.
Stay away from mass marketed products
Kicker has gone to hell,ever since the pyle buyout. |
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| jol50 |
Pyle is sister to Pyramid right? Sound Around or whatever it is called.
The best sub is likely going to be $500 or better, if you need it. |
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| amc32 |
| pyle was first a american speaker manufacture much like eminence.They supplied parts and speakers for other manufactures. Kicker,Impact,Blues just to name a few.Look at the cones on the original C-10,12,15 from Kicker.Kicker had to make a switch over when there supplier was sold. Pyle also made decent amps also. |
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| Safe_Cracker |
| quote: | Originally posted by amc32
pyle was first a american speaker manufacture much like eminence.They supplied parts and speakers for other manufactures. Kicker,Impact,Blues just to name a few.Look at the cones on the original C-10,12,15 from Kicker.Kicker had to make a switch over when there supplier was sold. Pyle also made decent amps also. |
Ya back in the day! I had four Pyle 15's new purple ones in a sealed enclosure on a 400W Sherwood amp, was loud as hell and in my delivery truck! I miss the old days when things were simpler, nobody had a 1000w system and Jensen was decent, remember Pyramid EQs? Ok let me get off the waaaay back machine lOl. Polo. |
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| jol50 |
| The old pyles were killer, I remember those! The magnets barely fit in the cutout there were so big around, and they had heavy pulp cones...wish I had some still they were awesome IB. They might have been pyle drivers, the ones in the center of the photos I posted in the old school amp thread are pyle pros from around '90 I think. RF made some nice ones too. I can get some eminence 15 from a guy, don't know what they are but are new. Guy has some 10s and they are nasty looking things for sure with big cast baskets and large motors. Yeah we used to run 300w amps on 10s back then and they put out pretty good....lot of new subs you really have to feed them some power to get them moving. |
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| luka |
| quote: | Originally posted by EWorkshop1708
Anyone have experience with the Digital Designs subs? I've seen a lot of them on Youtube being abused, and even one was plugged into 120V mains several times and would not die! :hot:
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I do some.
If I will get a chanse I will try something like REVO from Audiopulse(TC sounds), the seem to be very good, maybe I will like them even more then DDs:eek: |
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| amc32 |
To say what is the best is subjective.Certain perameters must be in place.Are we judging for a woofer to take abuse or play music.Value or Comromise.
IMO Atomic or SJA Industries,is a woofer manufacture they can custom build anything you want,with only a few limitations.There home brand Atomic is quite good also.Used them several times in the past.I personally prefer some the older stuff,watch out for the cup spiders.
Dont bother with the amps. |
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| buggsson |
| quote: | | Originally posted by Safe_Cracker Agreed ^^^ Hence, staying away from mainstream ****!;) Polo.. |
Well, that was kind of why I started this thread, I was aming for info on how to separate the good ones from the mainstream **** as you call it. There is too much to choose from, and then to be able to judge which woofers are worth buying and not...................... Sifting through the sales hype etc............
| quote: | Originally posted by amc32
To say what is the best is subjective.Certain perameters must be in place.Are we judging for a woofer to take abuse or play music.
watch out for the cup spiders. |
I thought that I had stated that they are intended for music, not SPL, in a tapped horn, which in itself determines quite a few necessary parameter values, but for now, I just want to have some help sorting the good woofers from the bad. Later it will be time for parameter matching.
What is it with the cup spiders, that's a new term for me. |
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| Safe_Cracker |
| Your gonna also want to specify budget because if you really live where your profile says most of them wouldn't ship to you anyways and if they did it would probably cost more than the sub lOl. Polo. |
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| Clipped |
i stopped buying expensive subs a long time ago and started modifying cheaper subs that would make good donors.
youd be surprised at how little a difference there is between an expensive one and a cheap one.
apart from the most exotic steel used in the top and bottom plates such as permendur, actually the cheaper grade metals have a better permeability than the higher grade, the cheaper ones have a lower carbon content.
most of the difference is in the soft parts such as the spiders, cone and tinsels, alot of cheap subs can simply have their spiders replaced and it will perform twice as good, use 12 gauge speaker wires as opposed to tinsels and you just gained some efficiency, with the exception of tinsels that are already thick.
for voice coils, theres the round copper wire coils and the flatwound copper clad alumnium coils. Industry standards for round copper are 40mm and 50mm winding heights for a 3" wide coil.
The shorter coil being more efficient. The thinner the wire the more efficient it will be, but at the loss of high power handling, but not critical if not exceeding 1500 watt sinewaves for over 15 minutes.
what i usually look for in a good donor sub is:
1. voice coil diameter
2. cooling = more power handling
3.magnet width = more flux density,
5.spider width, allows more excursion, the ridges also play an important role in xmax and cone control.
6.spider material - some are paper some are cloth, the cloth ones cant take much power...you can tear the paper with your hands but not cloth...cloth strands are usually thicker.
7.thickness of top plate - allows more force upon the coil, but the magnet has to be sufficient also.
8. cone thickness - if exceeding 1000 watts
9. polepiece, a chamfered pole piece will allow better airflow, and better efficiency.
10. from my experiences, subs assembled with cyanoacryate are louder than those assembled with epoxy or mastic latex, with the exception of ceramic epoxy.
i tried a 'wicked one' before and it was a waste of time and wood, for the same amount of wood i was able to make two boxes, a simple slot ported box killed it.
i have a few good tricks up my sleeve but id have to kill you if i told ya :D v |
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| buggsson |
| quote: | | Originally posted by Safe_Cracker Your gonna also want to specify budget because if you really live where your profile says most of them wouldn't ship to you anyways and if they did it would probably cost more than the sub lOl. Polo. |
I did not specify my budget at first by purpose, my aim was to be told the good ones from the bad ones, and then see what, if any I could afford. I have found a few that are willing to ship, but the shipping is more expensive than the driver in many instances. I think I will have to settle for drivers sold or made over here, it seems to be more economical than trying to self import. My largest problem so far, is not that they will not ship their products, they are not at all interested in telling me the few, in my view, technical parameters that I need for my simulations. Such manufacturers will therefore never be of interest to me.
| quote: | Originally posted by Clipped i stopped buying expensive subs a long time ago and started modifying cheaper subs that would make good donors. youd be surprised at how little a difference there is between an expensive one and a cheap one.
i have a few good tricks up my sleeve but id have to kill you if i told ya :D v |
Very good advice, I'll save them for later use as well. The only problem with this approach is that you will have to have the "know how" of these processes, I am far from there, I am setting out on my first mission here.
Considering the pricing differences between most car subs and PA subs that I have been made aware of just lately, I might put off the car sub business for now, and gain by what I have learned so far when I buy my next car. (The present one has more than 680 000 kilometers under the hood, so no money or time on that one.)
And yes, I would like to live a little bit longer, so you better keep the secrets:D |
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| 1moreamp |
A 20 hertz bass note has a wave length of about 32 feet. This means somewhere between two car length spaces around your little car the note will be properly formed. I drive a suburban / Sherman tank gas hog, and I use a folded horn type design using the entire rear section of my Burb just try and get low bass within my vehicle where I can enjoy it, not my neighbors vehicles.
I can only imagine what some people are getting for bass, and most of its not inside your vehicle. You just can't break the laws of Physics economically in a car. Hence all the complaints about bad bass in cars, and your search for the best built subs to take the incredible power your going to throw at them only not to hear the low sub bass inside your own car.
In fact a lot of what some people think they hear in the car as sub bass is actually the car body resonating with the SPL that your creating, thats not sub bass from a driver. Its resonances from the car body, you gotta love that metallic bass sound, hence the 400 pounds of Dyna-matte your going to install to soften the metallic rattling noise all the way down to the license plate ringing like buzzer.. Just add some bass shakers to the frame of your car and run them with 60 watt amps you will get the same effects, for cheap.
Then theres the high tech speakers with the Titanium composite carbon fiber cones < but how does it sound in your car? > and the 4 inch voice coils built on gold press latinum formers < but how does it sound in your car? >, and the super long throw extended depth 75 pound frame structures for rigidity < but how does nit sound in it your car? >, and the huge reinforced cabinets required to hold all that weight and not resonate like a tin cup < but how does it sound in your car? >..etc... 'But how does it sound in your car is the real question, not if its a aerospace marvel of industrial manufacturing technics".
Modern subs have come a long way since the early days and all the innovations have been aimed at producing usable bass inside your tiny vehicle space. They do this by weighting the cone structure to the point that sub is only capable of producing very low bass in infinitely small enclosures, and by adding voice coils that try to provide linear motion to the cone with a linear input < Hence the deep magnet structures and narrow long voice coils >. All the other stuff in the sub is used to control heat and magnetics so the linear motion can be maximized along with huge power handling this needed now to compensate for the damped cone structures. Most subs are not linear when you compare input signal to output sound produced, thus you get distortion of the bass. Double extra tight spiders and stiff surround materials only add to the damping effects that lower the subs output at the cost of efficiency, hence the huge power needed to drive the brick hard speakers. And then theres the kilo-watt amps needed and all the extra battery power and huge alternators...etc.... This starts to feed itself as you can see like a cancer. And you will never get perfect bass in a car, and it will cost thousands to drive the "perfect built sub" in a imperfect car environment.
Most peoples trunk space is barely usable as a sub enclosure just by physical size and space limitations. Let alone playing through the rear seats lol lol lol I love those installs. They kill amps cause you can't here the amp being clipped because of the muffling effects of the rear seats lol lol thats a money maker for me as I repair amps. Most of which are trunk sub setup through rear seats. But Sub makers have tried their best to give you a usable solution.
Sub speaker have such a HUGE profit margin that most sub makers have profited to the point of growing their business into amplifiers and Head units and the such. think about that info tidbit. JL and Kicker were sub company's only when they started out, now they build everything. They could not do this if the margins were not there, So when you run a list of 20 company names look at the numbers they are very profitable, hence the large numbers. And they are not federally regulated so they can SAY ANYTHING to you about there product and there is no one calling them out from legal point of view.Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware
I love seeing those massive forged subs that people market to Joe Average Q public for $2000.00 and up each. And I think of all the nice things they will be buying with all of your money as you search for average bass in your vehicle. A very daunting task even for the more intelligent audio people.
My advice is that if you don't understand acoustics then pay someone that does to try and solve your sub bass issues in your vehicle. This does not assure you of a all around best solution but it will relieve you of all the math and headaches involved with the task at hand.
As for the best built sub, well thats a holy grail question, that will never be answered IMO as your going to take that best built sub and put it in the worst acoustic environment ever known to the audio industry. So why worry about it and why search for the Bismark of subs, when you at best will achieve mediocre bass in your Volkswagon sound environment.
Most makers build very strong subs nowadays. Some are better then others but whats the gain ? Once the elastomer's are worn out its a door stop unless your willing to pay a huge recone price.
Subs are all simple motor structures that are designed to go back and forth X amount of times then you buy a new one or have it rebuilt < buy a new one either way > If your having lifespan issues than I would look at your usage. Anything man made can be destroyed by a fool and his folly.
Why buy a $2000.00 sub when you not likely to need it that long. Most car audio setups last more then the life of the vehicle, so why waste money in Professional rated drivers used in the coliseum type environment when its not needed for you car audio setup ? I see lots of "Best Buy bass " cars here in Nor-cal as long as your eyes gel at 6 feet from the car everybody thinks the car has good bass, Duh !
The most perfect sub is not the answer to the question as I see it. Its the perfect use of ANY sub to deliver a return value worth investing into in the first place. And buying the "Bismark" type driver is not the solution to anyones hunt for good bass in a car. In fact ita a misguided waste of huge sums of money thinking you have solved the world of issues surrounding bass reproduction in a car.
PS I am preparing to replace my subs after 6 hard years of use. they still play fine but I can hear that the elastomer's are worn out and the bass definition has sagged from what I once had. I paid $168.00 a pair plus shipping for those subs. I think I got my money's worth out of them, now its time to move onto something else, I got my moneys worth, and they still play just not as tight as they used to be. Such is life, I'm not as tight as I used to be either lol lol lol Good luck on your hunt for the "Bismark" sub.:) |
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| ppia600 |
| = Buy a pair of pioneer "premier" subs and tune your enclosure = ftw. (for the win) :) Subwoofers are frickin air pressure pumps for crying out loud. Its doesn't have to be so complicated. My replies are based on the OP's request for a sub with a good "build quality". |
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| jol50 |
Great post 1moreamp!:cheers: I used to run the cheapest subs and had great bass, people still come after me for that with both barrels....I'm such an idiot for saying that. Its funny, they really don't have a clue and have swallowed the marketing hook, line, and sinker. All depends on your install, but I'd say I can get out of a sub setup for a typical daily driver with some semblance of SQ with the cheapest equipment in the car compared to the rest. If you want super loud, then they will simply blow up...but once all my mirrors shake at ~30Hz (and can get under that) then I don't need more.
As far as bad bass, seems to me many either: want SPL/ manufacturer recommends too small a box, packages it that way, or one is used anyway. Sure better stuff is good in many cases, but I still say subs is the least important funding in a car for listening to music. |
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| buggsson |
| Maybe I should have frased this thread heading differently? My firm belief is that build quality differs. However, build quality must not necessarily mirror price. What I was after was drivers with good build quality, separated from the drivers with poor build quality. It is nothing that says that just because a driver has fancy materials or extra heavy duty, it will have excellent build quality or the other way around. So was I wrong in trying to find out the good ones from the bad ones? I believe that in general, it is a good way to start, asking the users of their opinons, trying to stay away from all the sales hype. How else will you learn? |
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| ppia600 |
By "build quality" do you mean how well the driver is made, for example its tendency to not fall apart and to be very accurately built with quality materials.
Or, are you saying "build" quality when you mean "sound" quality?
Surely you can get both in the same woofer. Of course all of us will have differing opinioins. |
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| buggsson |
| quote: | Originally posted by ppia600
By "build quality" do you mean how well the driver is made, for example its tendency to not fall apart and to be very accurately built with quality materials.
Or, are you saying "build" quality when you mean "sound" quality? |
I was thinking as in your first example, build quality and material quality but especially build quality, not sound quality, and of course, opinions differ, hopefully, I will be able to deal with that. |
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| ppia600 |
Maybe we are on the same page. When I'm shopping for speakers in general I like to check build quality. It is important for a loudspeaker to have precise symmetrical measurements and solid build to make tuning easier. Contrary to some peoples' beliefs I prefer using products built buy a company with many years of electronics engineering experience. I don't usually go with companies that popped into existance after the early 80's. Some have been around way longer. I actually have polk currently and I wouldn't have chosen them but since their involvement with DEI improved their manufacturing methods making them more durable and accurate, I had to try.
Of all of the subwoofers I've used, the pioneer were the most reliable bar none. I've used fosgate, kicker, alpine, polk, infinity, etc, and although I've never abused any (for long anyways:smash: ), the pioneers always were sold in working condition. I've demolished the others running recommended wattages and no other outstanding variables. Its almost like some manufacturers specs were on the outer limits of normal operation and the pioneer were well within operatin limits no matter what. I know they make cheap low powered models as well, but you should try some of their high powered versions. All of this talk about "mainstream" is bs. Toyota is mainstream, Nissan is mainstream, Honda is mainstream. Get it? |
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| Clipped |
i vouch for pioneer too, just that ... where i live now they arent cheap...
but have had good results when i was back in the states...coils were usually centered better than some speakers back in the day...you can usually tell a well centered sub , by the way it carries a note and lingers, a poorly centered sub 'shakes' off at the last instance.
magnets with a 'greyer' tinge are usually stronger than magnets that look too black or plasticy...less ferrite and more binder is used...industry standards for the most commercialized ferrites are Grade 3, 5, 8...8 being the strongest.
the grade 8 mags will be more brittle..but nothing to worry about.
check out konaki subs, they try to be DD clones...but have had spider glue problems in the past. or my weapon of choice for donor subs...BM audio ZD-12xal...i have 6 , everything is good except the spiders...why they went cheap for this one part i dont know...the motor is centered via screws and glue, not just glue.
if you decide to recone, one good trick is dropping a coil inside the gap, if it floats down, it interacts well with the gap ... if it just drops, cone control wont be very good...people try different coil configurations to get the most power from their amps...but efficiency of the speaker is often overlooked. |
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| drumheadz |
Have you heard any of CDT ES series subs?? Ihave a couple of CDT ES-1200SQ its really the best Musical Woofer iv heard and iv have owned them all in one time ore another. If your going to stockholm any time soon i can invite you to check them out. i have one fore sale to !! ; ))
PS:exucse my spelling but im swedish you know:DS |
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| buggsson |
| quote: | Originally posted by drumheadz
Have you heard any of CDT ES series subs?? Ihave a couple of CDT ES-1200SQ its really the best Musical Woofer iv heard and iv have owned them all in one time ore another. If your going to stockholm any time soon i can invite you to check them out. i have one fore sale to !! ; ))
PS:exucse my spelling but im swedish you know:DS |
Hi drumheadz,
No, I have not heard any of the CDT subs yet, I hadn't heard of the company at all either, but now I will check them out later this weekend.
I'll e-mail you, as chance has it, I live in greater Stockholm, so I would very much like to check them out. |
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| buggsson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clipped
check out konaki subs, they try to be DD clones...but have had spider glue problems in the past. or my weapon of choice for donor subs...BM audio ZD-12xal |
Where can I find Konaki's home page, I tried Google, but it did not help, and I will check out BM Audio as well. |
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| hawkeyefile |
| quote: | Originally posted by buggsson
I should perhaps have given more info in my previous post.
- Budget is secondary, to a degree.
- Soundquality and good build is what I am after, not SPL
- My application is tapped horns
It has to be sturdy, it will experience some harsh times, due to the way the tapped horns work.
There are so many brands out there, I just wanted some help stearing away from the bad ones. I've seen a few new brands in jol50s list. My own list so far contains these brands:
Alpine
Atomic Speakers
Audiobahn
Audiopulse
Audio Top
Cadence
Cerwin Vega
Clif Designs
Digital Designs
DLS
Dynaudio
Eclipse
Elemental Design Audio
Elevation Audio
Emphaser
Fi Car Audio
Ground Zero
JBL
JL Audio
Kicker
Kole Audio
MA Audio
Magnat
MB Quart
MTX
Orion
Power Acoustik
RE Audio
RD Audio
Soundstream
SPL Dynamics
I have not been able to check out all of their web sites as yet, but I am getting there. Any input on these brands?
What about book tips? |
Kicker? Are you mad? They have the most colorful EQ response I know of (second to Bose). |
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| amc32 |
Yeah I liked the build on the old Rockford Fosgates.Steel frames double magnets that were 8" in diameter.Lets not forget the original Crunch's and LA subwoofers(not to be confused with LA Sound).Only one problem with them all.They didnt work.They were all designed around parameters meant for either Pro or Home audio.So you either sacrificed performance or you got eaten alive by more effiecnt subwoofer like the original (black cone,red surround)Cerwin Vega.
Any how here's my list of best contemporary subwoofer from a build
quality stand point:
Eclipse
Fi
Re
DD
JL
RF
Some Harmon Corp.
And my all time favorite sleeper of the list: Audiobahn ALUM series |
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