| Dave the bass |
Well, this is what I think Bobby Byrd and James Brown are saying at the beginning of the well-known Funk track 'Make it Fonken"
BB. "What chu gon make now?"
JB. "Bobby...I don't know...but whatever I makes it's gots to be Fonken...1...2...3...Make it Fonken..." Etc etc etc :)
Hello, I'm a new member to this forum, I'm about to make a pair of Planet10 FE127eN fuelled Fonkens.
This is only the 2nd pair of proper HiFi speakers I've made so feel free to point out any ooppsies I've made or could make. My first build was over the Christmas break, a pair of fully tweaked/eNAbled Fostex 167 in Scottmoose designed MLTL cab's. I'm mega-sooper-dooper-happy with them. They're used almost everyday and look and sound amazing (IMO).
The full build can be seen here for anyone wanting to cure insomnia and see what a wally with power tools can do. I'd never cut or routed accuaratley before so it was a steep learning curve for me... http://www.wduk.worldomain.net/foru...read.php?t=3700
...and so it begins....
Busy down the shed tonight. Baffles cut today and speaker 'oles and all-important chamfer for the little 127's to breath in. (I missed this on the MLTL build, I'll get round to doing it one day when I find the correct router bit).
Front view.
Back view.
Shamfa view...
Thats all I can do for now as the baffles are 18 mm whereas the rest of the cab is in 12mm BB. Pick up 12mm BB Ply on Saturday from the local timber Merchants.
More progress next week hopefully.
DTB |
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| chrisb |
Dave: having just got started on my 12th or so pair of Fonken enclosures this week (actually 4 pairs on the work bench at the moment) - the sticker on the wall by my bench reads:
"it ain't good 'til it's Fonken good" :angel:
I'd be interested in how Jules likes the midrange imaging and soundstaging vs the FE167s.
Did you ever try thinner wire from the amp, or inside the enclosure on the MLTL's?
p.s.
Actually, in case you haven't seem them elsewhere, I do have some suggestions, the first of which before you cut all the material:
1) Extend the slats forming the slot dividers far enough to act as bracing to the back panel.
2) After gluing up the outside panel, slot dividers and internal slot panel as a sub assembly, add the felt damping material to the inside panel before next glue-up step. No matter your assembly sequence, it gets pretty tight inside that box before the last panel back goes on. As I have access to a big-a$$(technical trade term) sliding table saw that can cut the side bevels after the boxes are fully assembled, I attach the side panels assemblies to the front, then the top, driver brace, bottom, leaving the back last.
3) Screw the driver to the front baffle panel and lay carefully down on a soft surface before marking and cutting the vertical driver brace to fit tightly against the magnet. After allowing for gasket compression, I tend to add an extra mm or so (1/32") clearance that can be sealed with PSA draft exclusion (weather-strip) foam tape. If the driver brace is cut too shallow, you've got a huge problem once the box is all glued up.
4) Offset the vertical driver brace from enclosure centre line by the material thickness
5) Install cleats of 12mm plywood where the back panel meets the top and bottom panels, and cut notches or 45's on the vertical driver brace for it to clear. This will add extra glue surface area for the rear panel, as well as increase bracing betwen the side panels.
Sooner or later I need to compile an assembly photo log, to add to the number of them out there.
Most importantly - enjoy it, and try to wipe that goofy grin off your face when you play the fully broken in pair the first time for your friends.
cheers |
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| Dave the bass |
Glad to know I'm not the only daft 'fonken' making them :)
Re- MLTL wiring, no I haven't experimented further with thin wire bassically 'cos they sound soooo good with the stuff I'm using at the moment Chris. I was toying with the idea of running 2 individul strands of equal length Cat5 to each speaker then A/B for any differences at a later date. Problee be a winter project when the weather turns gloomy again. I've been playing with room positioning and floor coupling though, I like them toe'd in a bit, lovely sound.
Back to the Fonkens.
1. Slot dividers, oooh. Thanks for pointing that out, nope, I was going to cut them flush with the inner panel. I'll extend them as per your instructions, cheers.
2. Yes, I was going to to make the side panel and slot panels as a sub assembly like you advised, I've got some pukka 12mm wool felt left over from the MLTL build that I'll damp the internals with, talking of which, do I apply the wool felt to the baffle rear and back panel too? Also, what about the driver brace? Does that need covering too?
3. Re- Driver brace, the foam strip you're talking about goes betwixt the brace and the driver magnet yes? To hold the whole caboodle rigid and solid I'm guessing yes? I was a bit wary of the metal of the magnet piece butting up against the brace and rattling at a later date. Re- big bummed table saw, yes....luckilly I work next door to a Joiners workshop and they reckon they can do that 45 degree chop for me OK on a finished cabinet.... <fingers crossed>.
4. Brace offset, ah, now I saw that in the plans on the P10 site, why is it offset? I'm a newbie to all this. See, I told you I'd probably be asking lots of questions :)
5. Aha, now, I saw on another thread where a chap in Ireland has made a pair and fitted little pieces (cleats?) to screw/glue the back panel onto but I didn't want to do that. Now, seeing as I learn't to rout and rebate when making the MLTL's I was going to rout out a 12mm x 8mm recess in the top/bottom and side panels to increase rear panel glue area and increase the cab strength like I've seen in some of the pro type builds you've done in bamboo ply. I wanna be 'pro' like you big boys!!!!
6. Photolog, I'll post up mine as I go if I have time. Feel free to use any of my piccies and comments if it helps you (as long as you don't say "now look what this plonker has done.....") :D
I always have a silly grin on my face Chris, I think it's down to a good veggie diet, English Real Ale and still skateboaring at 42 years old ;)
Many many thanks for all the advice so far. Scott, Colin and Ed over on WD advised me lots when I was making the MLTL's, I really needed it. Looks like I still do!
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by bigwill
Looking great! |
Ta Bigwill.
DTB |
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| gurley123 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the Bass
...and still skateboaring at 42 years old |
Amen Brother. I'm 34 and still rock the stuntwood whenever I can. Plus building halfpipes is a good way to get your wood skills built up. :D |
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| gurley123 |
Ahh yes, Google sketch-up is not just good for speakers! :D
Here is a plan for my really tiny backyard. If you think talking your wife into a big set of speakers is hard, try to get her to agree to a couple of tons of concrete in the garden.
And here is a Fonken Rip-off for the Hemptone FR5". It's in the works now. I'll let you all know how it sounds. Also a companion woofer is planned.
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Glad to know I'm not the only daft 'fonken' making them :)
Re- MLTL wiring, no I haven't experimented further with thin wire bassically 'cos they sound soooo good with the stuff I'm using at the moment Chris. I was toying with the idea of running 2 individul strands of equal length Cat5 to each speaker then A/B for any differences at a later date. Problee be a winter project when the weather turns gloomy again. I've been playing with room positioning and floor coupling though, I like them toe'd in a bit, lovely sound.
Back to the Fonkens.
1. Slot dividers, oooh. Thanks for pointing that out, nope, I was going to cut them flush with the inner panel. I'll extend them as per your instructions, cheers.
2. Yes, I was going to to make the side panel and slot panels as a sub assembly like you advised, I've got some pukka 12mm wool felt left over from the MLTL build that I'll damp the internals with, talking of which, do I apply the wool felt to the baffle rear and back panel too? Also, what about the driver brace? Does that need covering too?
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We apply felt damping material to all internal panels, including approx 1/2 the driver brace immediately behind the driver. Leave clearance for "breathing room" at the internal openings of slots.
| quote: |
3. Re- Driver brace, the foam strip you're talking about goes betwixt the brace and the driver magnet yes? To hold the whole caboodle rigid and solid I'm guessing yes? I was a bit wary of the metal of the magnet piece butting up against the brace and rattling at a later date.
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A fundamental aspect of virtually all of Dave D's non BLH type designs is coupling of the mid/bass or full range drivers to the enclosure via magnet brace. In the the case of the Fonken, this brace is vertically oriented and serves to rigidly couple 4 of the panels and driver. I wouldn't be concerned with rattling of the metal cover on the FE127's magnet. For over 2 years, I've been using a dead driver for as a dry-fit model which has suffered some serious abuse in the shop. Aside from scratches in the paint, the magnet cover has yet to come loose or mis-shaped.
The relatively weak stamped frame on all of the FE & FF series (as compared to the FX & FW and Sigmas, for example) is another story altogether. That's where the concern over cutting the magnet brace too shallow arises. I've found out the hard way that if you over torque the mounting screws and/or add extra compressible weatherstripping in attempts to close a minor gap that would result if the brace is too shallow, you run serious risk of warping the thin stamped frame, even if it's been reinforced with epoxy or ceramic doped damping fillers. This is not a good thing.
With the FW or FX models, you're more likely to snap the head off a screw if overtorqued than bend or crack the frame, but please don't anyone test that thesis.
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Re- big bummed table saw, yes....luckilly I work next door to a Joiners workshop and they reckon they can do that 45 degree chop for me OK on a finished cabinet.... <fingers crossed>.
4. Brace offset, ah, now I saw that in the plans on the P10 site, why is it offset? I'm a newbie to all this. See, I told you I'd probably be asking lots of questions :)
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One of the effects of this type of bracing is to subdivide the panels into smaller panels with higher resonant frequencies. Offsetting the braces redistributes this resonant energy over multiple frequency bands, each with lower and more quickly dissipated energy levels. Depending on the size of enclosure, multiple braces may be required, and there are some geometries that we've found work better than others.
| quote: |
5. Aha, now, I saw on another thread where a chap in Ireland has made a pair and fitted little pieces (cleats?) to screw/glue the back panel onto but I didn't want to do that. Now, seeing as I learn't to rout and rebate when making the MLTL's I was going to rout out a 12mm x 8mm recess in the top/bottom and side panels to increase rear panel glue area and increase the cab strength like I've seen in some of the pro type builds you've done in bamboo ply. I wanna be 'pro' like you big boys!!!!
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As noted earlier, having built quite a few pairs of this enclosure, I've had the opportunity to experiment with a few variations on construction / joinery techniques, and don't claim to have found the magic / perfect way. The rabbets and dadoes used on the Bamboo enclosures was chosen to accent the patterns available with the exposed edge grain of the material. It certainly added to the complications of build, and I wouldn't recommend if using more conventional materials.
On the current flock of 4 pairs underway, plywood cleats will be used across the top and bottom of the back panel .
| quote: |
6. Photolog, I'll post up mine as I go if I have time. Feel free to use any of my piccies and comments if it helps you (as long as you don't say "now look what this plonker has done.....") :D
I always have a silly grin on my face Chris, I think it's down to a good veggie diet, English Real Ale and still skateboaring at 42 years old ;)
Many many thanks for all the advice so far. Scott, Colin and Ed over on WD advised me lots when I was making the MLTL's, I really needed it. Looks like I still do!
DTB |
Few of us ever stop benefiting from this type of sharing - and those who claim to not need any help or advice in their endeavors are generally the ones with whom I try to avoid conversations. :cannotbe: |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
A
And here is a Fonken Rip-off for the Hemptone FR5". It's in the works now. I'll let you all know how it sounds. Also a companion woofer is planned.
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If you haven't already done so, check with Dave on the math for enclosure volume and port tuning for this driver. Its T/S parameters might require some adjustments. This was certainly the case for the HempAcoustics 4.5" driver - the standard box was a bit small for what the driver wanted. |
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| gurley123 |
Yes, they are on the small side. They are for desktop use. They look good on WinISD(For all that's worth). I derived the T/S from the published complience, moving mass numbers and ect, as described in the WinISD guide for entering T/S numbers.
On the computer, they start slowly tapering off at 100Hz and then turn down a little sharper to hit an F3 of 73Hz. Impedence looks good too. I don't have it in front of me right now though.
Here's a pdf of the Dims. I haven't shown a brace but I have planned for some bracing. Shown built with 1/2" Ply. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
We apply felt damping material to all internal panels, including approx 1/2 the driver brace immediately behind the driver. Leave clearance for "breathing room" at the internal openings of slots. |
Ok thanks, I understand now. Yes I remembered the chap that got some damping material in the way of the ports suffered from poor bass. I've made a note to my self to be careful there.
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb A fundamental aspect of virtually all of Dave D's non BLH type designs is coupling of the mid/bass or full range drivers to the enclosure via magnet brace. In the the case of the Fonken, this brace is vertically oriented and serves to rigidly couple 4 of the panels and driver. I wouldn't be concerned with rattling of the metal cover on the FE127's magnet. For over 2 years, I've been using a dead driver for as a dry-fit model which has suffered some serious abuse in the shop. Aside from scratches in the paint, the magnet cover has yet to come loose or mis-shaped.
The relatively weak stamped frame on all of the FE & FF series (as compared to the FX & FW and Sigmas, for example) is another story altogether. That's where the concern over cutting the magnet brace too shallow arises. I've found out the hard way that if you over torque the mounting screws and/or add extra compressible weatherstripping in attempts to close a minor gap that would result if the brace is too shallow, you run serious risk of warping the thin stamped frame, even if it's been reinforced with epoxy or ceramic doped damping fillers. This is not a good thing.
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Again, thanks for explaining Chris, I'll make sure I get the barce right up tight and close to the magnet housing and pay special attention to clamping down the speaker.
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb One of the effects of this type of bracing is to subdivide the panels into smaller panels with higher resonant frequencies. Offsetting the braces redistributes this resonant energy over multiple frequency bands, each with lower and more quickly dissipated energy levels. Depending on the size of enclosure, multiple braces may be required, and there are some geometries that we've found work better than others.
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Ah, I didn't know that was the reason, thanks for explaining.
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb As noted earlier, having built quite a few pairs of this enclosure, I've had the opportunity to experiment with a few variations on construction / joinery techniques, and don't claim to have found the magic / perfect way. The rabbets and dadoes used on the Bamboo enclosures was chosen to accent the patterns available with the exposed edge grain of the material. It certainly added to the complications of build, and I wouldn't recommend if using more conventional materials.
On the current flock of 4 pairs underway, plywood cleats will be used across the top and bottom of the back panel . |
Oh bum, I've already cut the baffles to a size that pretty much commits me to the more complicated type of joints. I managed it Ok on the MLTL and saw how strong the (bigger) cabinet was using that type of construction. I'd got fairly confident using the router by the end of the build. This is the sort of joint I mean, sorry I don't know the technical term for it.
Ooo, I don't know what to do, a part of me wants to continue with the more complicated method of construction (I think it' looks good too actually) but I bow to your experience. I suppose I'll have enough to try again with the simpler construction method if I fail in the more complicated attempt. Would I upset you if I did it that way???!!! :D
| quote: | | Originally posted by chrisb Few of us ever stop benefiting from this type of sharing - and those who claim to not need any help or advice in their endeavors are generally the ones with whom I try to avoid conversations. :cannotbe: |
:)
DTB |
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| chrisb |
Dave, your picture shows a very nicely cut rabbet. . In this particular application, the cleat method could be considered a lazy-man's short cut to achieve the same result.
If you're confident enough to fully inlay the back panel with rabbets on all 4 edges, by all means.
Enjoy the project and the following ones.
cheers |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Dave, your picture shows a very nicely cut rabbet. . In this particular application, the cleat method could be considered a lazy-man's short cut to achieve the same result.
If you're confident enough to fully inlay the back panel with rabbets on all 4 edges, by all means.
Enjoy the project and the following ones.
cheers |
Rabbet! Ah! So thats what it's called. Yes, I'm going to give it a try, if I fail I can only be publicly humiliated in front of my peers ;) :)
Oh yes, I fully intend to enjoy the project. I loved building the MLTL's even though it was bloomin' cold down the shed...ahem... I mean workshop in the middle of winter.
"following ones..." You mean there's more to build afterwards? :D
Thanks again for help and advice Chris.
All the best,
DTB |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
Yes, they are on the small side. They are for desktop use. They look good on WinISD(For all that's worth). I derived the T/S from the published complience, moving mass numbers and ect, as described in the WinISD guide for entering T/S numbers. |
The factory specs are real close to the Fostex FE127. The measured specs fall about half-way between the FE127 & FE126 measures.
I ballpark the box size as needing to be a 1/3 larger than a similar FE127 box. I haven't pursued any boxes for these, because after a year i am still waiting for my replacement drivers -- makes it hard to get enthusiastic about HA drivers.
dave |
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| chrisb |
Dave: I think gurley's drivers are the Hemptone, not PP Hemp Acoustics.
http://www.hemptonespeakers.com/pdf...ne%20FR%205.pdf
There may well be independent tests that verify or modify the published T/S parameters listed above, but in the meantime how would you compare these to the average of your measures for the over 100 samples of FE127E to date, and what revisions if any would be appropriate for this driver in a Fonken-lite box? |
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| gurley123 |
Yep, Thanks Chris, They are indeed Hemptone speakers. I was bitten by the ebay impulse buy bug.
I have a larger cab for these but I really wanted to use them in an office set-up. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
Yep, Thanks Chris, They are indeed Hemptone speakers. I was bitten by the ebay impulse buy bug.
I have a larger cab for these but I really wanted to use them in an office set-up. |
As we've recently noted while playing around with the FF85K (microFonken) in small room/near-field / computer monitor etc applications, many of the limitations or "compromises" of an undersized box are not an impediment at all.
Sometimes a WAG / intuitive design works just fine, thank you very much! |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
There may well be independent tests that verify or modify the published T/S parameters listed above, but in the meantime how would you compare these to the average of your measures for the over 100 samples of FE127E to date |
From memory those specs are close to factory FE127 (Vas is larger) and similar to measured FE126
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
Another question Gents,
Is it wise to round over the edges of the holes in the driver brace AND the inside edges of the inner side panels?
I have a small radius router-bit I could remove any 90 degree edges with.
(Or am I over worrying?) :)
DTB |
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| chrisb |
I use a 45 chamfer bit on the driver brace holes to clean up any splintering from the hole saw, but don't bother with the side panels.
It never hurts to do pretty work; even when hidden from general view - you know it's there. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
I use a 45 chamfer bit on the driver brace holes to clean up any splintering from the hole saw, but don't bother with the side panels.
It never hurts to do pretty work; even when hidden from general view - you know it's there. |
Thanks Chris, will do.
Got the 8 fiddly port spacers cut today in the joiners shop next door, brilliant job. Saves me a lot of time at home down the shed.
Onwards!
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Got the 8 fiddly port spacers cut today in the joiners shop next door, brilliant job. Saves me a lot of time at home down the shed.
Onwards!
DTB |
That should read 16 port spacers...derrrr!
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Letter through the post today very kindly telling me that I owe her Madges Customs and Excise £39 before I can have my speakers, ouch. I could have done without that this month :(
Anyway, the little tiddlers have arrived and look stunning (as usual from Planet10), beautifully packed too.
Picked up the Birch Ply today and shuffled it off to my friendly carpenter buddy who's offered to cut all the panels on huge great table saw to size for me as I'd helped him out getting a hard to get hold of LV lighting transformer last month. Trade swaps, I love 'em.
Should be able to start build proper next week sometime. Nifty routing here I come.
Excited of NW Kent.
DTB |
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| gurley123 |
| Wow. It looks like Dave has been practicing :D I bet he EnABles in his sleep. |
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| woodturner-fran |
Hey, I'm that chap in Ireland!! yes, you are on the right road.
They way I did my back panel was to extend the brace back to the back panel and then glue and screw in from the sides of the cabinet into the back panel. eh, does that make sense!
So yeah, make sure you don't block the ports with the wadding. That had me puzzled for quite a while. Other than that they are a cracking set of speakers. Really amazing for the cost. Shows up a lot of the marketing **** for what it really is.
Fran |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by woodturner-fran
Hey, I'm that chap in Ireland!! yes, you are on the right road.
Fran |
Hi ya Fran, thanks for the advice but I'm going to rebate/rabbet the sides/top/bottom and rear panels together. Yes, much harder but thats just me. I've got a router and I'm gonna use it :)
It was reading through your build that finally gave me the extra 'push' after Scottmoose pointed me in the direction of the Fonkens.
Thanks for doing a really good in-depth thread, that really helps newbie 'speaker builders like me.
Cheers matey,
DTB |
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| woodturner-fran |
Well, I'm a newbie to speakers too - but I have the woodworking equipment, so I suppose I'm lucky in that regard. Its funny, when the fonkens didn't work out first time, I was really puzzled - everyone thought they sounded great. My faith was shook in diyaudio! But once sorted, faith was restored.
Lovely build, I think you'll be happy - what sort of finish are you thinking of? I'm going gloss black on mine.
Fran |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by woodturner-fran
Lovely build, I think you'll be happy - what sort of finish are you thinking of? I'm going gloss black on mine.
Fran |
Re-Finish, well... I finished my MLTL's in a clear Satin Varnish and they look great. Our whole house has has lots of stripped wood so the Natural 'organic' look works well with us (we're Hippy's BTW!!!) so I might finish them in a Danish Oil or summat like that for a change. Anything aslong as the wood shines through.
Ply is getting cut afterwork today, whahey :)
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Got all the wood cut by friendly joiner mate after work so after dinner that meant.....Hot router action(!) down the 'Home of tone' aka the shed tonight.
Enough wood to get Fonken...
...and after a couple of hours of practising and measuring I produced 2 tops and 2 bottoms with 12mm x 8mm and 18mm x 8mm rabbet's to mate with baffle and sides, rear too.
Chuffed with that so I thought I'd do a dry run mock up to makes sure I'm true and accurate....Yeeeeeeeeeessss :) bang on target!
and along came the other too.
Only a likkle bit of routing left to do then it's time to assemble the side panel sub assembly with the spacers and inner port bits. I learnt last time when making the MLTL's to make a note to myself of what to do next so when I come back to it in a few days time I remember what to do :xeye:
Coming along OK I think.
TTFN,
DTB |
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| gurley123 |
Looking real good DTB.
This is the point of the project where I'd get all excited and rush the next bits, making a big mess of things and having to take two steps back. I applaud your patience. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
Looking real good DTB.
This is the point of the project where I'd get all excited and rush the next bits, making a big mess of things and having to take two steps back. I applaud your patience. |
:) Cheers Mr Gurley, if I could I'd stay up late but I'd probably up-cock things! No point in rushing, they'll need running in for a good while before they really sing if my 167eN MLTL's are anything to go by. When I first powered them up they sounded 'orrible! Live and learn eh.
More news as they're made.
DTB |
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| Scottmoose |
| Look like they're coming together well now Dave. :) |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
Wow. It looks like Dave has been practicing :D
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as of last count well over 150 drivers
| quote: |
I bet he EnABles in his sleep. |
well, anyone painting this many drivers might well see spots when they close their eyes, but you definitely want to be at maximum 'lertness (2 gallons of Turkish coffee a day helps) - definitely not a job to try and perform autonomically. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
Look like they're coming together well now Dave. :) |
Ta Scott, yes coming along nicely. Gotta do a job for the muvver-in-law tonight, doubt I'm gonna get much build time in tonight :(
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Only had a little bit of time to make high quality sawdust this evening. Finished routing out the back panels then started dry assembling the side panel sub-assembly (outer panel/ 4 equally spaced port pieces/inner side piece).
Used a Bailey Box-clamp to hold the whole caboodle together whilst fettling...
...a peep inside. As advised by Chris the spacers go right to the back.
...and with the inner side bit on it looks like this...
and from the front it looks a bit like an Onken cab :)
Didn't have time to glue anything together tonight which brings me neatly to a question for Chris.
Sir, when you're assembling the side panel assembly (outer panel/ 4 equally spaced port pieces/inner side piece) do you.... glue and screw? Just glue and clamp? Just screw? Advice would be gratefully appreciated here.
Ta in advance,
DTB (apprentice fonken builder). |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Sir, when you're assembling the side panel assembly (outer panel/ 4 equally spaced port pieces/inner side piece) do you.... glue and screw? Just glue and clamp? Just screw? |
Chris only uses glue on these. Sometimes he'll use a brad nailer on a prototype thou.
You definitly don't want anything metal where the big sawblade might cut thru it.
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Chris only uses glue on these. Sometimes he'll use a brad nailer on a prototype thou.
You definitly don't want anything metal where the big sawblade might cut thru it.
dave |
Thanks Dave, gloo it is then (which is lucky as I haven't got any mates called 'Brad Nailer' to do the job for me....arf arf).
Next question, just to re-cap on the driver brace. I'm to cut the brace so the driver is snug against the magnet housing then put one strip of draught excluder between the brace and the magnet to ensure a good mechanical coupling to the rest of the cab when I screw the driver into position finally yes? But not so tight that I risk distorting the framework of the 127 obviously.
Cheers for all the help Gents,
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Thanks Dave, gloo it is then (which is lucky as I haven't got any mates called 'Brad Nailer' to do the job for me....arf arf).
Next question, just to re-cap on the driver brace. I'm to cut the brace so the driver is snug against the magnet housing then put one strip of draught excluder between the brace and the magnet to ensure a good mechanical coupling to the rest of the cab when I screw the driver into position finally yes? But not so tight that I risk distorting the framework of the 127 obviously.
Cheers for all the help Gents,
DTB |
Dave- if the brace is cut accurately enough it will firmly contact the FE127 magnet cover without the need for the "cushion".
The bradford naylor can be your friend, if you carefully layout the edges of the chamfer, it's certainly possible to safely tack a few pins to hold the spacers in place before clamping up that will miss the saw blade path.
I could give step by step assembly "instructions" or compile an photo slideshow of my particular method, but I can guarantee that some builder would fine cause for critique. There is no "single best" way. |
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| Dave the bass |
Many thanks for your patience Chris. I'll be uber-careful profiling the magnet brace, I think if I take my time I could do it sans-cushion.
I think you should do a photo-guide Chris, it'd certainly help newbie builders like me. Don't worry what other experts think ;)
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
A local skaters 21st Birfday skate and dwinky last night so no work done yesterday evening but tonight was productive.
Each of the outside panels 4 Port-spacers glued to the Outer-side panel. Lots of dry assembling and marking out to get everything in the right place and square (see... I'm learning!). The inner panel piece isn't being glued yet, it's just there to hold the port spacers flat and in position while the glue dries. I didn't want to rush and risk gluing too many things together in 1 go.
and...
Late night last night, time for bed!
Night Night :sleep: :)
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| yeppers, this is not as quick a build as a BIB - the 3 layers that make the sandwiched side panels are easy to mess up, and nothin'll fit square if they're off. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
yeppers, this is not as quick a build as a BIB - the 3 layers that make the sandwiched side panels are easy to mess up, and nothin'll fit square if they're off. |
Yup, that's why I'm really being careful with it and doing lots of dry assembling before committing to glue.
It really helps having the cab front-back-bottom-top being temp held together in a bailey box clamp. That way I can just slide the whole assembly together over the sides to make sure I've got everything lined up and square.
More work tomorrow.
TTFN,
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Whahey!
Spacers all glued overnight...
Now on go the inner side pieces.
DTB |
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| gurley123 |
Man DTB, you have got my project fingers itching. Unfortunately I have a drywall job in the garage that takes precedent. :( Once that is done though, I'll quit talking and start cutting!
Off Topic: Remember June 21st is Go Skateboarding day! |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
Man DTB, you have got my project fingers itching. Unfortunately I have a drywall job in the garage that takes precedent. :( Once that is done though, I'll quit talking and start cutting!
Off Topic: Remember June 21st is Go Skateboarding day! |
Cheers doode, quit talkin' an' get a-cuttin' :) See that? I talked Amerrycan :D
Yeah, we normally hit our local skate spots on the 21st.
..and the 22,23,24,25,26,27,28th etc etc etc;) Where's your nearest goodly skate spots matey?
More gluing and clamping.
Loadsa clamps to hold each inner side panel on...
...which when dried looks nice and strong and neat like this...
Brace cutting next :eek:
TTFN
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| It's definitely not possible to have too many big clamps in your shop, - although when you get to the final assembly steps you'll see it's sometimes hard to have enough room on a small enclosure to actually fit them all on the box. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
It's definitely not possible to have too many big clamps in your shop, - although when you get to the final assembly steps you'll see it's sometimes hard to have enough room on a small enclosure to actually fit them all on the box. |
When Chris was doing the 1st µFonkens one could hardly see the box for the clamps :)
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
I've got a few more Bailey Box clamps I had to buy for the MLTL build in addition to those that are in the piccies, thats the beauty of buy stuff really innit, once you've bought something you think you're only going to use once you end up using them all the time :)
Bit of brace tweakage tomorrow if I get time, got 2 major Gigs to go to this weekend.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Question for the panel...
The FE127's come with a foam ring/gasket that fits between the metal speaker frame and the baffle front. Does this have to be completely squashed IE- So that the metal of the frame is tight against the wood of the baffle?
I'm not too sure and I'm hoping to cut the brace soon.
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Question for the panel...
The FE127's come with a foam ring/gasket that fits between the metal speaker frame and the baffle front. Does this have to be completely squashed IE- So that the metal of the frame is tight against the wood of the baffle?
I'm not too sure and I'm hoping to cut the brace soon.
DTB |
there's little compression in the gasket, so it doesn't take much to completely squash it (reminds me of an old Frank Zappa lyric).
I'd install the driver in the baffle, and screw down as tightly as would in the final installation, then mark out and fit the driver brace to that. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
I'd install the driver in the baffle, and screw down as tightly as would in the final installation, then mark out and fit the driver brace to that. |
Thanks Chris,
Will do,
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
So, been fettling down the shed again.
The Driver Brace came into being today as it did it's identical twin, whahey...
...and this is what it looks like in the box (nothings glued yet)...
...and a close up of precision driver fitting :)
Chuffed. Each of the holes in the driver brace is routed on the edge to 45 degrees as advised.
I suppose the next step is to cut and stick the 1/2" woolfelt in before final assemblage?
I'm mounting a separate block on the outside of the cabinet for the binding posts so I don't interfere with any of the internals, same as I did on the MLTL's...
That's it for now, off to see Gong tonight with Hillage again, double Whahey :)
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| well on your way, Dave - almost time to start lining with felt. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
well on your way, Dave - almost time to start lining with felt. |
Oh yes! I have my excited trousers on already :)
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
So, I've been a busy boy tonight.
First up was to do a final dry-fit-assemble on getting all the panels together. I was going to apply all the felt lining first but when I did a dry-fit it made it hard to see my alignment marks on the brace ... sooooo...I've come up with a hybrid plan to glue the top/bottom/sides and baffle in one hit and THEN fit the felt lining to the inner panels (avoiding clogging the ports, ta Fran!) THEN fit the brace then finally the back.
So tonight Cabinet 'A' looks like this...
I'm going to leave stuff glued and clamped for 24hrs at a time, which is handy as thats how long it takes me to sleep/commute/work/commute/eat/glue the next bit :) Cabinet 'B' gets the sticky treatment tomorrow night.
Other creations this evening are these likkle blocks, these'll mount onto the outside of the back panel ala my MLTL's. I've already wired 2 lengths of Teflon covered silver cable to each post so I only have to drill the tiniest hole in the back panel of each cab.
That's it for tonight, more gluing tomorrow.
TTFN,
DTB |
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| woodturner-fran |
looking good - thats how I lined mine as well. I sprayed in some contact glue and fixed the lining to that.
Fran |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by woodturner-fran
looking good - thats how I lined mine as well. I sprayed in some contact glue and fixed the lining to that.
Fran |
I like the smell of Contact Adhesive a little bit toooooo much. I ration myself to PVA thesedays ;)
I used a couple of off-cuts last time when I was making the MLTL's to hold the woolfelt in place whilst the PVA dried off like this...
Think I'll problee do the same again.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Can I just double check...
Every panel inside the cab gets covered in damping material? Brace included, is it advisable to cut holes in the woolfelt the same as on the brace piece?
Sorry for all the questions,
DTB |
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| vitalstates |
| Rule 6... I know the pythons said there was no rule 6, but in this case there is...... |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by vitalstates
Rule 6... I know the pythons said there was no rule 6, but in this case there is...... |
I'll bite, OK then... whats rule 6......
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
We apply felt damping material to all internal panels, including approx 1/2 the driver brace immediately behind the driver. Leave clearance for "breathing room" at the internal openings of slots.
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Aha! Rule 6, re-read ones own thread before askig questions :)
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| Well since I didn't actually state it before; no I don't cut matching holes in the felt on the driver brace . I glue the brace in first, and as you're likely finding, once the panels start going together, there isn't a lot of elbow room inside. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Well since I didn't actually state it before; no I don't cut matching holes in the felt on the driver brace . I glue the brace in first, and as you're likely finding, once the panels start going together, there isn't a lot of elbow room inside. |
Oh, I see. I was going to release the clamps in a few mins then glue-in the woolfelt to the baffle/inner sides/to and bottom then glue-in the brace (with the woolfelt already in postion) to save having to stick my little mitts into wooly holes <sniggers> Oooh, that sound almost rude :xeye: :)
Back soon, the shed...ahem..'workshop' beckons...!
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Oh, I see. I was going to release the clamps in a few mins then glue-in the woolfelt to the baffle/inner sides/to and bottom then glue-in the brace (with the woolfelt already in postion) to save having to stick my little mitts into wooly holes <sniggers> Oooh, that sound almost rude :xeye: :)
Back soon, the shed...ahem..'workshop' beckons...!
DTB |
that certainly sounds like a slideshow requiring credit card subscription :whazzat:
As I noted earlier, feel free to vary the fabrication / assembly process in any manner that makes sense to you. I frequently preglue the felt to the sandwich side wall panels, and of course always to the last panel installed (in my case the backs) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
no I don't cut matching holes in the felt on the driver brace |
The most important part of any felt on the driver brace is over the holes. LF will not see the felt, but the brace positions the felt in the best possible place (put it on the side that places the felt at the centre) to reduce/kill any standing waves traversing from one side of the cabinets to the other thru the holes. At this oint it should be also noted that the holey brace also makes the side-to-side distance much more complex.
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
As I noted earlier, feel free to vary the fabrication / assembly process in any manner that makes sense to you. I frequently preglue the felt to the sandwich side wall panels, and of course always to the last panel installed (in my case the backs) |
Yep, for me as a newbie doing it 'my' way just makes things a bit easier visually, if I had the felt in position I'd have struggled to see if joints are rammed up tight and in the right place. I scribed a series of alignment marks over the inside of the cab when I was 'dry-fitting' so that when I came to glue-up I'd have a good idea if the all the panels were sitting in the right place. Yes, the backs will be the last to go on in this build too.
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
The most important part of any felt on the driver brace is over the holes. LF will not see the felt, but the brace positions the felt in the best possible place (put it on the side that places the felt at the centre) to reduce/kill any standing waves traversing from one side of the cabinets to the other thru the holes. At this point it should be also noted that the holey brace also makes the side-to-side distance much more complex.
dave |
Aaaaaah! So the felt just goes onto one side, doh! I've yet to glue the brace in so can remove the felt from one side if needs be, I saw Chris mention earlier that certainly covering the brace at least half way back behind the driver is advisable. I've gone completley over the holes so at least I got that bit right! I'll just cover one side tommorrow, the one nearest the centre of the cab. Got it! Thanks for the help Dave.
So, tonight the clamps came off cab 'A' and voilą...
...and from the inside...
I'm pleased with all that so far.
Next up was to glue-up Cab 'B', same process and clamps as last night so not really worth taking the same piccies. Cab 'B' went together easier as I had everything to hand after last nights sticky sesh.
After that I started the woolly work, cutting the felt pieces to line the inside and glueing them in. It was like being back in Primary School again (which suits my level of intellect BTW!)...
...and a view from the front of the double felted (oops) not-glued in brace. I'll recover it tomorrow night on just one side as per Dave D's advice.
The annoying round marks on the front of the cab just below the driver cut-out is from a smear of oil I found on the little rubber covers on the big clamps, I dunno how it got there but it's marked the cab. The photo makes it look worse than it actually is, I was going to finish the cabs in a natural Danish Oil finish, hopefully I can blend the mark in with the finish. <fingers crossed>
As ever, thanks Chris and Dave for all the advice and input.
DTB |
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| chrisb |
Starting to look mighty familiar
A couple more suggestions:
Try "Gun-wash" thinners, Varsol, or other toxic volatile petro-chemical based solvent to strip the oil from the plywood, and a thorough sanding down to at least 220G before applying your finish. I doubt the oil from the clamps and the Danish oil's finish are compatible, so the stain will likely not blend in - if anything it will be pronounced.
Before you glue the cabinet together, apply some wide painters masking tape overlapping the inside of the driver cut-out. If the box is already together, try tucking some paper under the edges of the felt padding on the back side of the front baffle. This will prevent sanding dust and/or finishing products from contaminating the felt.
Since my front panels are routed on a CNC machine and include rebate for flush mounting the drivers, I'm able to mask off the front of the driver cutout after veneering, and before sanding and spraying of lacquer finish. |
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| Dave the bass |
Yup, Re- masking tape...will do Chris, thanks for the tip.
I had to stick the wand from our hoover down the insides of the MLTL's to remove sanding dust last time, live and learn!
Yes, I'll try and remove the oil mark too, bummer really, couldn't really be in a worse place could it :)
I'll strip one side of the brace tomorrow and fully cover the side nearest the centre.
If I have enough time hopefully I'll be able to felt-up Cab 'B' and its brace too, got other jobs for tomorrow night already :(
Just a thought, I've noticed that the joiners in the workshop next to mine put a very small radius edge on the side of any work they do in ply (which is rare, it's mostly Trespa they work with). I think they said it was to prevent the ends of the veneer/plys lifting or being 'caught' and damaging the finish. So is there any reason (sonically or otherwise) why I shouldn't apply a small radiused edge on the 90degree edges of the cabs?
DTB
PS. I think routing out the driver to it sits flush with the front is beyond my router skills at the mo, maybe one day, who knows :) |
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| chrisb |
It would probably be just as easily break the edges with a sanding block and 150G or so paper. Use the PSA backed pads designed for 6" diameter power sanders with a hard sanding block for easing the edges, and a cork backed pad for sanding the flat surfaces. Stuff some cotton balls in the the vents to keep the dust out - they can be easily removed later.
In fact if the router bit's not deadly sharp and depending on the plywood, you can get chip-outs when routing cross grain - and of course mr Murphy would guarantee that to happen on the most highly visible edge. |
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| Dave the bass |
Cheers for the tips re-cab finishing Chris, I've got some off-cuts I'll play with sanding and edging on these first before committing to the cabs.
Busy Bunny again tonight, late finish down the shed.
Clamps came off Cab 'B' tonight so introduced him to his twin, Mr 'A'.
Then I removed one side of the felt I glued onto the brace last night and recovered all the side nearest the centre of the cab side as per Mr D's instructions then glued in the brace, which leaves Cab 'A' looking yummy and nearly finished...
I refitted the FE127 temp to make sure the fit on the brace was still good and thankfully it is. I used a piece of paper to check the driver magnet housing is up tight against the brace cut-out, bang on. Yesssssssss, success :)
Next up was to cut and fit Fuzzy felt into cab 'B' and then do one side of the brace which leaves cab 'B' looking like this...
Knackered, off to bed now, night night.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Only a little bit of work done tonight.
Brace glued into Cab 'B' and both back panel's got the wool felt treatment.
Bit more work on Sunday then we're nearly there, whahey :) Should be able to get the front 45 Degree cuts done next week too. Oooooh!
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
So, the braces have now been glued in place and this morning the backs got glued into position after a jolly good hoovering out...
...then 'cos it was sunny and warm I left the cabs to dry outside...
Looks like an advert for Stanley clamping devices dunnit :)
Next bit is to get the pesky 45degree angles cut then it's time to start rubbing down (the cab's not me BTW) and glue on the 4mm Terminal blocks.
Getting there.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Dinner time chop session.....OOoooooooooooooooooh!
and
Camera phone hence poor pic quality. I could only get one cab on the back of my bike, the other will be chopped tommorow.
Onwards :)
DTB |
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| chrisb |
Nice work - probably the toughest single cut on the hole cabinet. You're definitely down to the short strokes now.
enjoy |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Nice work - probably the toughest single cut on the hole cabinet. You're definitely down to the short strokes now.
enjoy |
Thanks Chris, it's thanks to Mr Friendly Joiner next door that I got those cuts done. He reckoned I'd done OK too but noted I had a 0.5mm twist on one of the sides of the cabs so I wouldn't get a job with him :) He's hard on me. I'll 'diss' his soldering next time he wants help;)
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Ooooooh my right arm aches (stop thinking that you durty boys :) )
Lots of sanding and finishing down the shed tonight. I experimented with different routing depths and profiles and decided I'm not good enough/my router bit is too worn to risk putting a tiny bevel on the edge all the way round so I went 'Organic' and did it myself with a sanding block as suggested!
Boo...burn marks and some chipping on my test piece...
...but the 'hand edging' looks fabbo...
Then it was time to pay attention to the sanding and finishing, I went from 120G flattening (it says on the packet) up to 400G wet and dry, super smooth finish. Quick wash down with White Spirit to remove any dust and oil (that mark seems to have gone whahey) then once the cab was dry it got a good soaking with Danish oil.
Tonight Cab 'A' looks like this...
and
Oh yes. More tomorrow night, Cab 'B' should get the chop too.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Cab 'B' got the chop at lunchtime, this time Mr Friendly Joiner chap said the Cab was a good 'un and I might get the job afterall :)
Slight mishap transporting it home in my bag (all the best speakers are treated to a 42 mile commute on the on the back of my Motorbike, it's a trade secret...!) ) has caused a small piece of the laminate to lift, it must have got caught on summink as I was putting it in the bag.
Naturally Mr Murphy dictated that it be on the front edge, doh! It doesn't show too much thankfully and the Oil finish blends in the damage to some degree...
So Cab 'B' got a proper sanding down tonight, then a wipe down with white spirit and when dry the first coat of Danish oil.
Before applying I took a piccie to show just how lovely the treated cab looks. Looks more like the sort of Teak Furniture my Mum and Dad used to have in the 1970's!!! I like the darker finish now, it makes them look like relics from the 1930's or summat which is handy considering what I live in.
Cab 'A' has had 3 coats and will get buffed soon to finish orf. then it's just a case of drilling a small hole in the back for the LS Cables then leave running for at least 100 hours down the shed face to face in anti-phase to run the little beasties in.
Nearly there. Oooooo, exciting.
DTB |
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| AdamThorne |
Super nice! Looking forward to the comparo w/ the other speakers...
How did you end up removing the oil spot from earlier? Was it just with the sanding, or something else..? |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by AdamThorne
Super nice! Looking forward to the comparo w/ the other speakers...
How did you end up removing the oil spot from earlier? Was it just with the sanding, or something else..? |
Thanks Adam, WRT the oil blob well.. a combination of things really. Firstly almost half of it has been cut off when the 45degree chop was done, secondly white spirit and some canny sanding with 400G Wet n Dry saw to the rest of it. With the first coat of Oil on it seems to have vanished, phew.
Pure jammy luck I'd say on the whole ;) :) Chris advised a few solutions too a few post back, looks like I won't have to resort to any of them no thankfully.
DTB |
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| woodturner-fran |
If you bought the enabled ones from Dave I think they already get 100 hours hard labour to prove their worth! You might not need much run in at all. I'd be bringing them boyo's into the house and hooking them up!
Looking good nice build nicely detailed. Well done.
Fran |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by woodturner-fran
[B]If you bought the enabled ones from Dave I think they already get 100 hours hard labour to prove their worth! |
A minimum of 100 hours... if i'm not ready for them in the office/workroom they could have up to a week. Treating them sets them back a bit.
dave |
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| DaveCan |
Great job DTB:cool: I think your going to find that all that elbow grease was worth it ,when you hear them..
Dave:) |
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| Dave the bass |
Thanks Gents, yeah I'm pleased with the way they're coming on too.
I bought a pair of eNAbled 167's from Dave for my MLTL project and they took a while to run-in (little did I know at the time that was why they sounded 'odd') but after that they've just got better and better.
It's not a problem running them in for me, I'll hook up a little 6EM7 SET amp and run a dub CD through them for a few days. I'd like to hear them indoors when they're run-in after the shock I had after I'd spent ages making the MLTL's :) Older and wiser (a bit!)
I know what to expect this time ;)
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Question.
What to bung on the bottom the little Fonkens? Spikes? Rubber tootsies? Nekkid? Albanian Bats droppings?
DTB |
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| gurley123 |
| quote: | originally by Dave the bass
What to bung on the bottom the little Fonkens? Spikes? Rubber tootsies? Nekkid? Albanian Bats droppings? |
87a Red Kryptos :D
Those are some seriously sexy cabs DTB. You nearly have to label this thread NSFW. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
87a Red Kryptos :D
Those are some seriously sexy cabs DTB. You nearly have to label this thread NSFW. |
Bah! I'm with the 'new' wheels these days mate, 56mm Coretech. Rock hard 'crete screechers more my cuppa tea
;)
Cheers for the Cab 'props' matey, getting there.
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Question.
What to bung on the bottom the little Fonkens? Spikes? Rubber tootsies? Nekkid? Albanian Bats droppings?
DTB |
Oh lordy - a whole 'nother can o' worms :xeye:
For me that would depend on the platform. I'm using a cheapie pair of Paradigm metal pipe stands (sand-filled) that include thin rubber pads on the metal top plate.
Since I tend to move them around quite a bit and swap out different boxes on the stand, I avoid using any permanent fixing, but something like Blu-tak or similar putty based couldn't hurt. |
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| Dave the bass |
Thanks Chris, Blutack it is then, I've been offered a pair of QED stands by a lovely fella on another forum so that should sort out a few problems. Excellent.
Post evening dinner Fonken-fettling revealed that the oil is still drying and hasn't gone hard enough to buff or cut or rub in anyway but they are touch dry so can be handled OK without damaging the finish...
So, lets have look at both cabs with 4 coats of Danish oil on...corrrr...
No point in mucking about then, lets drill the holes and fit the cables and terminal blocks then...
...and...
Well, seeing as we're on a roll it'd be silly not to fit the drivers wouldn't it...
and from the back...
So still on roll lets see what they sound like...Oooo...look..... there's some handy stupidly tall Fonken stands that will surely bring out the worst in them and sub-optimum position too... excellent. Always the best way to hear a speaker for the first time IMHO :) ...
Well, they work :shock: :D and they sound VERY nice too, yes, from the outset. More detail tommorow as I'm running out of time.
I know they need running in (and mounting on a stand) before hearing them at their happiest so I whipped 'em back down the shed and hooked them up in antiphase...
...powered by our old friend the one-watt-wunder-amp...
...being fed by a CD discman playing a Finley Quaye CD on repeat for at least the whole weekend as I'm helping out hosting 2 mega skate jams this weekend. They should be run-in nicely by Monday evening 8)
Very happy, knackered and time for sleepy weepys.
Night night all.
DTB |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
So still on roll lets see what they sound like...Oooo...look..... there's some handy stupidly tall Fonken stands that will surely bring out the worst in them and sub-optimum position too... excellent. Always the best way to hear a speaker for the first time IMHO :) ...
|
On those "stands" you'd likely be best to flip the Fonkens up-side-down.
We've been using 20" tall stands, but an experience with using them by themselves with the FonkenWoofTLs as stands suggest a bit higher would be better.
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
On those "stands" you'd likely be best to flip the Fonkens up-side-down.
We've been using 20" tall stands, but an experience with using them by themselves with the FonkenWoofTLs as stands suggest a bit higher would be better.
dave |
:) It was just somewhere to Plonken Der Fonken (see what I did there, clever eh?) last night really.
They were only indoors for 1 side of Motavation Radio by Mr S Hillage and A Dub experience by Sly + Robbie. Sitting in my usual spot with the Fonkens 'way oop thar' the HF was very lacking (naturally) as was any real imaging BUT what suprised me was the mid bass sound, so tight. Standing up so my ears were closer to the axis of the 127's it all started coming together but the HF still wasn't as good as the eNAbled 167's IMO.
Either way it's a much happier start than with my MLTL build (which I now lurve), speaking of which swapping back to them showed just how good they sound now. Lovely stuff, way more extension at both ends than the Fonkens (at present natch).
This morning before work I popped down to the 'running-in' department (shed) where I've had the Fonkens running all night in Antiphase via a little SET and CD player on repeat, intersting already... I know it was first thing in the morning and my HF hearing is more acute then but the sound has changed already. Wiring them back into phase and repositioning them gave a lovely full sound even in my very 'dead' sounding shed. I've bunged them back in antiphase and cranked up the volume a smidge and left them singing their little bums off for the whole day and may get them up and running indoors tonight for a little listen.
Happy DTB!
PS. A lovely chap form another forum has offered a pair of 18" high QED stands for swapsies/loan and when they're proper run-in they'll reside on those until we get Julies workroom sorted (or go on holiday, whichever comes first!!!) :) |
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| Dave the bass |
They're back indoors after running non-stop for 24Hrs on a little SET amp with a CD on repeat.
They're being fed by another DIY SET (C3g>6B4G) on lash up stands (2 dinning chairs and 2 plastic boxes) with the bottom of the cabs 25" off the ground, they sound soooooo good. I've listening all night.
I had no idea a 4" driver and under £50 worth of Ply could sound like this.
OK, they don't do sub bass but what they do do is amazing. Really impressed.
DTB |
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| rjbond3rd |
| Hi Dave the bass, beautiful builds both. Can you characterize the difference in bass between the Fonken and the MLTL? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
they don't do sub bass |
That is what the FonkenWoofTLs do.... (ohh... and the midrange also gets better)
:D
dave |
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| AdamThorne |
I am looking forward to more fonkenwoof info
:yes: |
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| planet10 |
here is a picture... early version drawings are available on request. Push-push SDX7. 2nd order active XO @ 100 Hz works fine... next i want to try a assymetrical PLLXO.
I'll have to take some pics with the woofers installed.
dave |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
here is a picture... early version drawings are available on request. Push-push SDX7. 2nd order active XO @ 100 Hz works fine... next i want to try a assymetrical PLLXO.
I'll have to take some pics with the woofers installed.
dave |
Well, I think most could imagine the drivers. Of more interest is probably the scale of the actual enclosure, which for the purpose of aesthetic continuity has the same cross sectional profile as the Fonken itself. This does tend to place the acoustic centre of the FE127 a bit high for near field listening, but in a 900+ sq ft "great room" with a vaulted ceiling, it's not so much of a problem. Of course if those dimensional constraints were loosened, I should imagine the net volume and enclosure tuning could be configured for a shorter & deeper box.
The SDX7 is a killer driver for the size, and although the XBL motor technology pays the "Hoffman premium"(sensitivity), 2 of them and 100watts or so per side is more than enough for this cowboy.
For those curious, the skinner box with a driver installed is a si | | | |
