| john blackburn |
Lovely speakers, a very entertaining read but most of all I love the hat snake!
John |
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| dublin78 |
A steel tube with square plates on either end is simplest - available from local metal fabricators.
Filling the inside with sand will add to the fibration absorbtion qualities better than concrete.
Congrats on a great pair of FRs. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
If there's a cab out here in DIY-land that can maintain the everything the little fonkens do but add a bigger focused bottom end but uses that lovely little 127 EN driver then please point me to them :) I don't want to resort to sub's and multidriver speakers again.
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| quote: | Originally posted by AdamThorne
P10 et al re-Fonkenwoof: Is there a thread or location somewhere about the development in this area? I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do wonder... 2nd order for the cross? I dunno much about crossovers, but I guess I expected it to be steeper for the sake of the little fostex. That's electrical, right? I've read some of the stuff on PLLXOs before, but it would be nice to see your implementation in action as an example.
How low to the fonkenwoofs claim to get?
I looked for price info on the SDX7, and I thought I saw $100 each, and you use 2 per channel? That seems like quite a price difference between the bass and the main speakers! |
Adam,
)if you want to start a thread i can move the relevant posts into that thread)
I have been pretty mum about the FonkenWoofs (there are 2 different ones built so far). We have been working for some time to find a helper woofer that doesn't get in the way, and then an XO on top of that.
I've been a mostly FR guy for a loonng time, believing that it was important that the critical midband be covered by a wide range driver. In the past this was usually an electrostat with help in the bass. An epiphany a number of years ago got me playing with single FR drivers, and we've been working to get what we can out of them. But anyway you slice it, getting a single driver to do it all will leave you with a compromise somewhere.
So in the end, we need to compromise a bit and help the FR out a but. The easiest place to do this is in the bottom where wavelengths are long and the ear is less sensitive to XOs so after getting the Fonken to do things as well as it does (excellent midrange, decent top, good bass as far as it goes & cheap). We have tried many times, with many boxes to coax more out of the relatively inexpensive 4-5" drivers that seem to be where the full-range sweet-spot is, but an oft heard review "they are good, but they aren't a Fonken, had us set off in a couple directions to improve it.
One is the addition of woofs. The SDX7, with a necessary bit of tweaking, turns out to be a very good match. It is capable of respnse to ~950 Hz and then nosedives (effectively giving it an acoustic 2nd order roll-off), Being XBL it prodices bass like you would expect from a larger driver (at the price of some efficiency) and it really thrives in a (relatively small) sealed box. This last makes it extremely versatile, and also a pretty good choice for a TL that pushes towards aperiodic.
To give an idea, the single SDX7 in the 17 litre sealed, sims to an F10 of 40 Hz. In room, with the Beringer DCX2496 and 5 dB of boost at 25 hz, it measured flat to 25 Hz). The stock Beringer sounds like **** thou, the PLLXO at 250 Hz, 1st order on the woofer, droopy 2nd on the µFonken turns out MUCH more listenable. It also tended to validate the theory of using an asymetrical XO to help with baffle step. I need to pull out the measure gear and see to tweaking this PLLXO a bit more, in theory i probably have a bit of a hole between 250 & 350.
With the Fonken & the fonkenWoofTL XO can be much lower. I had an ancient Ace Audio active XO kicking around which we dusted off and put in just so we could play music, and it surprised the H out of us by not being intrusve. It is a pretty standard SK topology althou the filter values are a but strange with -- as best we can figure -- a not quite Bessel roll-off. It has been modestly uprated with OPA213x opAmps, better RCAs and the elco coupling caps replaced. Being much more livable than expected i have procrastinated a bit on further XO development. Next up is a PLLXO similar to that used with the µFonken.
The goal with the XO is to go no harm, which has always been an issue i've had in the past. The Fonken is good to ~70 Hz, a 2nd order at a 100 Hz is going to give just enuff roll-off to help with the midrange but not findementaly get in the way. My thinking has been trading off the various orders between 1-3, my experience with higher orders has me avoiding them.
Sims of the fonkenWoofTL have a modeled F10 of ~30 Hz.
The other direction we have been heading is toward more expensive drivers. The FonkenFX, and uberFonken (FX120 & F120A) are under development. These promise an extra 1/2 octave of bass (in a bigger box, and with some loss of efficiency). Extended comparisons between stock FX120 and FE127eN have us pretty stocked on these. The stock FX120 is free from some of the nigglies inherent in the FE127 (the 7k peak which hasn't been completely tamed), but lacks the downward dynamic range of that the treatment brings to the FE127, Overall the preferences of those who listened was to give the FE127eN the edge. The FX120 is being treated as we speak, and if it gains as much as its more expensive brethern, the F120A, did under Bud's hand, we could have it nicely improving on the FE127eN.
Now these will still benefit from helper woofers, and derivatives of the same FonkenWoofs can be fit, with the added benefit that an even lower XO can bring.
The SDX7 isn't cheap, $200/pr (i do the minimum mods, and match as best i can) or $300/pr for the fully treated ones. For most rooms a sngle per side is adequate, larger rooms benefit from more (it is theorectically possible to fit 4 under a Fonken and still maintain some measure of cosmetic matching).
We are playing with a less expensive alternative -- a 5.5" Silver Flute -- which is promising.
dave |
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| ped |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
If there's a cab out here in DIY-land that can maintain the everything the little fonkens do but add a bigger focused bottom end but uses that lovely little 127 EN driver then please point me to them :) I don't want to resort to sub's and multidriver speakers again.
DTB |
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss a sub out of hand, the Fonkens integrate beautifully with my sub. Same articulate and tuneful bass, just a bit deeper and with a little more authority. It doesn't take much to round things out :cool: |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by john blackburn
Lovely speakers, a very entertaining read but most of all I love the hat snake!
John |
Thanks John :) Mr Snake has been with us for a couple of years now and at different times during the year he wears different hats reflecting the seasonal changes.
He was an 'art project' out daughter did a few years ago... she's now got a degree in Digital Animation Techniques :lol:
| quote: | Originally posted by dublin78
A steel tube with square plates on either end is simplest - available from local metal fabricators.
Filling the inside with sand will add to the fibration absorbtion qualities better than concrete.
Congrats on a great pair of FRs. |
Thanks Mr78, thats a good tip. I'll have a look around and see what's out there.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Ooooerr.
| quote: | Originally posted by ped
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss a sub out of hand, the Fonkens integrate beautifully with my sub. Same articulate and tuneful bass, just a bit deeper and with a little more authority. It doesn't take much to round things out :cool: |
Yup, I understand where you're coming from Mr Ped, I'm not just dissmissing them out of hand but it's worthwhile backtracking a little bit here and remembering why I built these in the first place. It was after my partner suggested we have a little system to take away on holidays with us, hence the want/need to build a small FR speaker system to put in the boot (trunk?) of a car. I think taking a sub away on holiday everytime is getting a bit mad :) and I don't want to have a bigger car either!!!!
What has actually happened is that in a couple of areas I've found the little 127/Fonken set up does things my MLTL's don't AND vice versa. So impressed with the sound are we that I'm gonna live with them for a while in place of the MLTL's then swap back, it's all part of my education into what speakers make what sounds and more importantly what suits ME in MY home the best.
Don't get me wrong, I really love what these little speakers are doing. So much so in fact that I'm toying with going further into the 4" FR driver/ cab thing and might build either a 127 based Metronome or a 127 Harvey cab for use in our lounge. I heard Scotts big double mouthed horns with a tiny 126 or 127 driver at the first very DIY fest I went to here in the UK about 18 months ago (see, i told you I was a newbie!!!). That sound must have made a deep impression on me because I'm hearing that level of detail and imaging in the little Fonkens in my Lounge.
It's all healthy stuff this DIY malarky innit :D I'm very grateful for having you guys and others guiding me and pointing things out.
DTB |
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| dublin78 |
Hi
If you are going to all the effort of building a pair of the larger cabs, like the Hravey, the Mikasa, or Metronome, why not think about using a FX120, or even F120A?
Planet 10 is experimenting with eN versions. It is likely that they will provide further refinement over the FE127eN.
I have the first pair of FX120eN, and am eagerly awaiting Dave's completion and report/review.
Don't be put off by the lower sensitivity. The Xmax of the FX120 is 2mm, so they should provide similar sound levels. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by dublin78
Hi
If you are going to all the effort of building a pair of the larger cabs, like the Hravey, the Mikasa, or Metronome, why not think about using a FX120, or even F120A?
Planet 10 is experimenting with eN versions. It is likely that they will provide further refinement over the FE127eN.
I have the first pair of FX120eN, and am eagerly awaiting Dave's completion and report/review.
Don't be put off by the lower sensitivity. The Xmax of the FX120 is 2mm, so they should provide similar sound levels. |
Yeah, I could do Mr78. I know nothing about the FX120/F120A drivers you mention TBH. I really am a newbie but I'll have a read-up. I only built the MLTL's at Christmas and that was my first experience of eNabling and the world of Fostex FR drivers and speaker construction....
DTB |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dublin78
A steel tube with square plates on either end is simplest - available from local metal fabricators.
Filling the inside with sand will add to the fibration absorbtion qualities better than concrete.
Congrats on a great pair of FRs. |
I don't know about in the UK, but in North America, the Paradim stands are so cheap it isn't hardly worth bothering to build your own (~$125 retail)
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dublin78
I have the first pair of FX120eN, and am eagerly awaiting Dave's completion and report/review.
Don't be put off by the lower sensitivity. The Xmax of the FX120 is 2mm, so they should provide similar sound levels. |
Once the dust clears i suspect we are only talking about a dB of efficiency... won't know for sure until i measure.
The cabs for the F120A are almost ready for drivers (FX120 will use the same box)
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
I don't know about in the UK, but in North America, the Paradim stands are so cheap it isn't hardly worth bothering to build your own (~$125 retail)
dave |
Awww...thanks for the tip-off Dave but I'd already decided to use the 1/4 sheet or so I had left over from the Fonken build. A chum had offered me a pair of QED stands but they're only 18" high so I resorted to a spot of DIY in the end.
I'm making a really basic sorta column stand.
Here's the middle bit that'll be filled with sand...
...and here's a lash-up while the glue is drying...
...and here's my nicely bevelled edge that the little Fonkens sit on top of, all at 45degrees to blend in with the little beauties :)
They'll sit about 26" from the ground. A nice neat way of using up the left over ply (it had started to warp too :( ).
Stands and speakers out of 1 sheet of 8x4. Huzah!
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Once the dust clears i suspect we are only talking about a dB of efficiency... won't know for sure until i measure.
The cabs for the F120A are almost ready for drivers (FX120 will use the same box)
dave |
No-one is more eager than I to hear the results of the F120A in the "Fonken-steen" enclosure (my own nick-name) , and for those who listen at my levels, (on average less than 80dB) the real-world sensitivity difference from FE127 is a minor concern.
However, the cost is another matter. Using Madisound's single lot retail pricing as a yardstick (YMMV), the FX120 is 2 1/4x and the F120A just over 5x the price of the FE127E. Factor in shipping expense at almost 5lbs each for the F120A vs approx 2lbs per pair for the FE127, plus any aftermarket modifications, and the big-boys represent an investment that's more than just a DIYer's "wonder what that'd sound like" weekend project. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
However, the cost is another matter. Using Madisound's single lot retail pricing as a yardstick (YMMV), the FX120 is 2 1/4x and the F120A just over 5x the price of the FE127E. Factor in shipping expense at almost 5lbs each for the F120A vs approx 2lbs per pair for the FE127, plus any aftermarket modifications, and the big-boys represent an investment that's more than just a DIYer's "wonder what that'd sound like" weekend project. |
However... FE127eN to FX120eN won't be as big a differential... FX should be ~ 1.5x or a bit less (there is not as much work needed in modding these -- just got 4 more today)
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
Scott/DaveD/ChrisB, if I was a girly I'd want to have your Baby's.... :eek: :D :D :D
They're brilliant. I've spent a week living with them now and they still knock me out everytime I sit down and listen to them. Last night I was knackered from a mornings graft on the stands (pics later) and a 5 hour sesh down the skatepark, I settled down and listened to 5 LP's one after the other, Steely Dan 'Aja', Level 42 'A World Machine', Nick Drake 'Five Leaves Left', Creedance Clearwater Revival 'Chronicle' and Joan Armourplating 'eponymous'. Every track I was rivetted, they're just SO 'alive' in their character. The top end is so focussed and precise, I love that. The upper mids have that crystal clarity I've heard in other whopping great SET amps and I'm getting a simillar effect/sound from a breadboarded C3g->6B4G amp. The bass is solid and very tight as I said before and even a self-confessed bass-head like me can live without that low end ooomph after spending a week with them quite happily. I do miss the bass that the MLTL's produced but its a happy trade-off with the between-speaker imaging that the little Fonkens produce. Both the MLTL's and the Fonkens are great 'sounds' IMO. I can (and do) live either of 'em.
Now then... if the Saburo's can deliver the gorgeous mid and top that the Fonkens make but with the bum-end extension that the MLTL's have BUT with Fonken-tightness both the MLTL's and the Fonkens could be in trouble ;) :D
Chuffed is the word of the week!
DTB |
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| planet10 |
Chuffed it is then... :D
I had the thoy pass thru my head from the earler picture of the ML-TL Fonken Stands... a PLLXO at ~100Hz with the ML-TLs providing bass support might be interesting....
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Chuffed it is then... :D
I had the thoy pass thru my head from the earler picture of the ML-TL Fonken Stands... a PLLXO at ~100Hz with the ML-TLs providing bass support might be interesting....
dave |
:eek: But...but...but.... that means more than one driver per channel....Witch!!! Burn him :D :D My little brain couldn't cope with sound coming from 4 cab's at once surely !!!
Ok, I'll bite. Whats a PLLXO? Phase-locked-loop Crossover?
Still dunno though.... will I be pounced-on by the Audio Police? <hides behind curtain> :)
Still Chuffed BTW. The stands are coming on nicely, I'll post some pics later. I found some Kiln dried sand in a local DIY shop and have approx 12Kg's in each column. They feel solid and sturdy.
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Ok, I'll bite. Whats a PLLXO? Phase-locked-loop Crossover?
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Passive Line Level XO
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/...assiveHLxo.html
essentially, you can achieve part of this function by adding a cap/resistor network at the amps' input terminals, or adjusting the value of the coupling cap of a tube amp.
Several years ago I tried that on a pair of Decware Zen amps used in a bi-amped system. This particular amp model has 2 pairs of input jacks - it was easy to modify one pair to operate as pass-filtered, and usurp the function of the existing top mounted bias adjust toggle switch to allow for selection between filtered and "full-range" operation.
Although you need a pair of outputs from your pre-amp, or quality signal splitting Y-cords, the actual XO is completely self-contained. I'd think the signal degradation from the couple of inches of wire and extra solder connections would still be far less than that of external crossover components and interconnects - not to mention the huge savings in cost.
However, not as flexible for tuning. |
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| Dave the bass |
As promised, piccies of the Fonken stands using up the bit's of 12mm ply left over...
Very basic column stand, the bottom's are glued and screwed on then the upright is full of Kiln-dried sand...
and then I glued and screwed the tops on...
All of which was left to dry for 24hrs at a time make them uber-strong. I've routed the edges of the columns at 45 degrees just to make them look nicer and built up the height of the actual platform the speaker sits on to get the desired 26" height.
A coat of Danish oil (with an Antique pine stain) has them looking like this tonight....
and...
Getting there.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Thanks for the PLLXO explanation ChrisB. Ooohhh, we're getting tech with filters and things, I dunno....are we loosing the plot ;) :)
I love the whole simplicity of the DHT SET -> single driver FR cab thang.
FWIW I run a passive pre with a shunt wired ALP's pot before the power amp. Very basic but it works for me, maybe I'll try the PLLXO sometime. I have a few other DIY power amps knocking about Chez Bass.
I'm being wooed by the Saburo cab too at the mo, I'm thinking of building that in the winter to further my experience of the small FR driver sound. It's been a revelation hearing what a small driver in the right cab can do in my own home, at various DIY meet's they never seem to perform that well in front of 10-20 folk in a big/huge room but in home surroundings they're astonishing IMO. Hence the want to build more and listen to other cab's which has led me to Scott's Saburo design, relatively straight forward but big.
Good this DIY malarkey innit :)
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
I made an excellent up-cock last night.... What kind of an idiot would buy the wrong Danish Oil? Me actually. The type I've used on the stands had a stain in, the type I used on the Fonkens didn't. As luck would have it they're fairly closely matched, 1 coat of Stained Oil looks close to 4 coats of 'natural' oil but the stands are matt and the Fonkens have a slight (roughish) sheen to them.
Anyway, they look OK so in they came...
Right hand Fonken on a Sandystand (good name huh?!)....
...and his twin in the other corner...
...and lastly the view from my listening position...
Chuffed (still!).
Waiting for a man to come round today and give us a quote to sort our Chimney out, smoke shouldn't be entering our Sons bedroom should it?:D ...and he's not having a crafty fag BTW. Oooo it's gonna be pricey we're guessing (less chuffed).
Still, speakers sound good though.
DTB |
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| gurley123 |
OK I am now officially green wit the envy. That is some super nice work DTB. Kudos to ya.
What kind of wattage are we talking about with your amp? From the pictures I've seen, your room is close to mine in size and I'm curious to know what you've been getting away with. I'm thinking of building a 3/4 watt Darling amp in the future and it would be fun see what it can do.
BTW, fill the bowl on top of the right speaker with apples and switch out the lampshade for a smooth rimmed one and that will really bring your soundstage in to focus :D
If I'm ever on your side of the pond, we'll have to meet up at the skatepark for a session.
Later
Kris |
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| john blackburn |
Make the chimney bloke a pot of tea and sit him down in front of your speakers while you discuss the cost. You never know, you may be able to barter a bit if he likes the music.
You can run liners up chimneys so long as no loose bricks are obstructing the path, it hopefully wont be too crazy a price. With the UK economy in the state it is I would of thought people will be giving reasonable quotes just to get some work.
If all else fails set the hat snake on him.
John |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
OK I am now officially green wit the envy. That is some super nice work DTB. Kudos to ya.
What kind of wattage are we talking about with your amp? From the pictures I've seen, your room is close to mine in size and I'm curious to know what you've been getting away with. I'm thinking of building a 3/4 watt Darling amp in the future and it would be fun see what it can do.
BTW, fill the bowl on top of the right speaker with apples and switch out the lampshade for a smooth rimmed one and that will really bring your soundstage in to focus :D
If I'm ever on your side of the pond, we'll have to meet up at the skatepark for a session.
Later
Kris |
Kris, et al- I'd suggest that any of the Fonken family with FE127E should start with at least 3-4 watts (2A3 or EL84 SE pentode such as Alex Kitic's great little RH84) - a magic zone for small rooms seems to be between 5-10 watts (i.e. 300B SE territory).
For not much more than some of the mid level T-amps, the the Glow 1 EL84 SE amp is a stellar match.
I've also had satisfactory results with lower powered class T amps (Kingrex, Trends, etc). Sub-1 watt amps, regardless of their other charms, will likely leave you wanting more with this design.
Dave: try pulling the boxes a bit more forward on the stands to reduce diffraction effects at the front and particularly bottom chamfered corners. If you like what you hear, I'd suggest you trim the top plate of the stands to slightly less than the footprint of the cabinet.
oh, yes and try some cryo treated deep fryed tofu crisps in Saworvski crystal martini glasses on top of the speakers
(now that's just plain silly) |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by gurley123
OK I am now officially green wit the envy. That is some super nice work DTB. Kudos to ya.
What kind of wattage are we talking about with your amp? From the pictures I've seen, your room is close to mine in size and I'm curious to know what you've been getting away with. I'm thinking of building a 3/4 watt Darling amp in the future and it would be fun see what it can do.
BTW, fill the bowl on top of the right speaker with apples and switch out the lampshade for a smooth rimmed one and that will really bring your soundstage in to focus :D
If I'm ever on your side of the pond, we'll have to meet up at the skatepark for a session.
Later
Kris |
Cheers Kris, appreciate your comments. Amp, well at the moment I'm using a SET 6B4G, problee about 2 watts tops per channel, as ChrisB says here also that's the bottom end of what you want. My room is a bit funny in that it's 3 rooms knocked into 1 big'un but supporting walls intrude into it, I listen in only 1 third of it. I don't listen (very) loud but 2A3/6B4G works lovely here. I've got a tiny 1 watt SET 6EM7 knocking about that's very good too on the MLTL's... I'll be trying that next and then I'll wheel out a 30Watt or so PP KT88 amp to see how that compares.
Top tips on the Lamp and fruit BTW :)
| quote: | Originally posted by john blackburn
Make the chimney bloke a pot of tea and sit him down in front of your speakers while you discuss the cost. You never know, you may be able to barter a bit if he likes the music.
You can run liners up chimneys so long as no loose bricks are obstructing the path, it hopefully wont be too crazy a price. With the UK economy in the state it is I would of thought people will be giving reasonable quotes just to get some work.
If all else fails set the hat snake on him.
John |
Mr Blue Snake did the trick John ;) The chimney is sorted, huzah, it was swept just before we had the new fire fitted just before Christmas last year so it's clean and muck-free.
Originally the house had 4 fireplaces plus a cooker stove Chimalee. We had the kitchen stack taken out about 9 years ago as it was in a perilous state. The builder we got in to do that also re-pointed and fitted ridge tiles to our main chimney (we didn't have a 'real fire' at the time BTW).
In doing so he created a problem when the Real Fire was installed as there wasn't enough 'pull/draw' to vent the smoke so under unfavourable wind conditions it backed-up and found it's way through a crack into Jon's room (which has a modified width chimney breast running through it).
We got in well-trusted local Chimney Specialist firm who have now fitted a proper Pot and cowl that'll allow a very fast pull of smoke through the existing stack without re-lining (hopefully). Got a test fire going at the mo, looking good.
DTB
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Dave: try pulling the boxes a bit more forward on the stands to reduce diffraction effects at the front and particularly bottom chamfered corners. If you like what you hear, I'd suggest you trim the top plate of the stands to slightly less than the footprint of the cabinet.
oh, yes and try some cryo treated deep fryed tofu crisps in Saworvski crystal martini glasses on top of the speakers
(now that's just plain silly) |
Have done Chris, it still sounds OK. I'll try and trim the top parts down soon, too busy enjoying their sound at the mo to do any more work :)
Got a friend coming round on Thursday for a listen and another next Thursday who wants to hear the MLTL's up against the Fonkens.
Do I get commission? :) No? OK then ... I'll settle for some cryo treated deep fried tofu crisps in Saworvski crystal martini glasses.
How did you know I was Veggie BTW, I am as it goes. Really.
Must dash, music to listen to!
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Do I get commission? :) No? OK then ... I'll settle for some cryo treated deep fried tofu crisps in Saworvski crystal martini glasses.
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Talk to Dave regarding a local hi-fi co-op initiative with WoodTurner Fran (does anyone call him WTF?) to build boxes under license :angel:
| quote: |
How did you know I was Veggie BTW, I am as it goes. Really.
Must dash, music to listen to!
DTB |
that was a shot in the dark of complete random silliness |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Talk to Dave regarding a local hi-fi co-op initiative with WoodTurner Fran (does anyone call him WTF?) to build boxes under license :angel:
that was a shot in the dark of complete random silliness |
:) WTF lives in Ireland though and I'm in the South East of England, supposing I forget to bring the glue when we're on Fonken building mission? It's a long way to go back and get some!!!
Your random shot of sillyness was brilliantly aimed sir
;) :)
DTB |
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| Scottmoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
...and another next Thursday who wants to hear the MLTL's up against the Fonkens. |
What's the point? They're designed for different things. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
What's the point? They're designed for different things. |
? They're both for playing music through I thought!
In actual fact Phil wants to hear the Fonkens and Nigel wants to hear the MLTL's, it's not a 'whats better than which' comp, we don't do that sort of thing, good lordy no :) Sorry I miss-worded that.
DTB |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
What's the point? They're designed for different things. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
? They're both for playing music through I thought!
In actual fact Phil wants to hear the Fonkens and Nigel wants to hear the MLTL's, it's not a 'whats better than which' comp, we don't do that sort of thing, good lordy no :) Sorry I miss-worded that.
DTB |
horses for courses, gentlemen
Had an interesting short session last night with a variety of amps (3 tubed & 1 special DIY SS ), along a pair of FE127EN Fonkens, and the first test of Fonkensteens with "Purvinized" F120As.
System; Jolida CD player, Bottlehead ForeplayII (EI 12BH7), budget interconnects and DIY single strand CAT5 speaker wire, O-Netics "Ground Pools"
Power amps: Vaughn Audio Carina, Bottlehead ParamourII (stock transformers), Wright Audio Mono7 300B, Jolida 302B (modded – triode / no feedback), DIY Project SS amp (with a new wrinkle?)
There were 4 sets of ears present, and while we could all use different degree of terse or verbose prose to describe our subjective impressions, I think I can speak for the consensus:
Vaughn Audio Carina - can be dialed from deliciously smooth (triode/ "Tone" B setting), to "in your face" UL/"Tone" A - but in even the latter case may not have enough ultimate torque for all situations, most particularly low sensitivity speaker systems - whether single or multi driver.
I've had occasion to hear this amp in a much larger venue than my own, on a succession of Fostex SD based systems:
1) Hornshoppe Horn, stock & fully treated FE126E;
2) C&C Abby with FF165K-EN;
3) FE206ESR in the big-ar$e recommended BLH.
The last item on the list is a magic but not flawless combination with the Carina, and the speakers certainly a bit unwieldy. Funny how it works that the extra 4dB of nominal sensitivity and gargantuan box could make that big a difference?
Back to last evenings event:
At moderate to "louder" levels ( I guess that's entirely subjective - in over 3 hours, we never surpassed 90dB on the Radio Shack digital meter at Fast C weighted setting), the Carina was more than a little stressed an congested on the triode/B setting, and at the other extreme (UL/A), a bit too aggressive with both the FE127 and F120A. Below this confusion threshold, an absolutely delicious and musical unit.
Bottlehead Paramour 2A3 (new stock EH Gold Grid / vintage Mullard 12AT7) . While the nominal power is approx only .5 watt higher than the Carina in UL mode, and with all due respect to talented and experienced amplifier designers, this is a perfect example that for any number of real world reasons, not all watts sound the same. It’s about synergy.
Still not quite enough to avoid compression and confusion on the upper midrange on the F120A above about 85dB SPL. These drivers are not as euphonically forgiving as the FE127E
Wright Sound Mono7 (300B / 6SN7 stock tubes and O’Netics OPT) – much more like it: this ain’t your grampa’s technocoloured, syrupy 300B. Think “2A3 with (just enough) balls”. Now we’re attaining SPL’s to the point that the little room is the major limiting factor.
While I’ll admit an abiding affection for the FE127EN/Fonken, this is were the F120A’s definitely start to distinguish themselves. It’s quite a cunning stunt indeed to extract this much dynamic snap, and low end authority / articulation from such a small driver / enclosure, without resorting to horn loading or EQ tricks. The only real premium that of sensitivity (well, that an the initial sticker shock of landed cost for fully EnABLed pair)
Modded Jolida 302 (EL34 P/P triode / no feedback) – Well, this was my first tube amp (almost 10yrs now), and at about 25 watts in modded form, this is the most powerful amp in the house. Unfortunately, it’s also the least refined. (yet – it’s been at least 3 years since the bottom was off for any serious tweakage )
Here’s a surprise :D – there’s still musical life left in the old (analog) SS device designbook. Sometimes it’s a matter of stripping down to the barest bones of simplicity (a la gainclones, etc.), and sometimes it’s a matter of thorough and very precise engineering, even if outside of the normal box, or taken to certain extremes (a la Nelson Pass First Watt family or Gary Pimm’s stunning SS Tabor to name just a couple). No doubt numerous other examples abound in both the commercial marketplace for those of us with bottomless pocketbooks, or the truly adventurous DIYers.
Which brings us to those out of left-field projects that have you scratching your head when you look at the parts count/quality or breadboarded circuit. An example of the latter most is an interesting design (by DUO of these forums) of a variable transconductance amp with real-time user adjustable output impedance. Even a quickly hobbled together prototype with “non-audiophile approved” parts is quite an interesting revelation, most particularly when you can dial an adjustment to the pace of that dance that occurs in the matrix that is the room/loudspeaker/amplifier damping factor/source material interface.
For a value of surplus parts less than the cost my last pair of EH 2A3 Gold Grids, (i.e. less than $80), and a few hours labor, this cute little beige box is not easily embarrassed in the company of the big boys. |
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| kmaier |
Chris,
Thanks for the info... any pics/plans of the Fonkensteen/F120A setup yet? Having more than one pair of the F120A, I'm interested in a Fonken enclosure for them.
Regards, KM |
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| jrebman |
KM,
Should be no surprise that you are the one who got me headed down this path with the F120A. I knew they existed but you are the first person I knew who actually built a box for them and listened to them. That prompted me to go looking for a pair, which I found and bought despite not really having the money for them :D. Then on a whim I called Bud and talked to him about them and he agreed to give them the polka dots. He was really impressed with what he heard so I then contacted Dave to see if these might work in a Fonken, and after a few calculations he said yes, but the proportions would have to be reworked -- both to accomodate the parameters and the size of the large Alnico magnet.
I decided that the development would go a lot better if they actually had a pair in hand to work with, so I sent them on their way, and now Fonkensteen is the result of all this.
I'm looking forward to getting them here and setting them up in their new home. I was originaly intending to use these in my small office system, but they seem to have turned out well enough to become my main speakers in my living room. All to be seen yet, but that's what I'm really thinking is going to happen.
-- Jim |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by kmaier
Chris,
Thanks for the info... any pics/plans of the Fonkensteen/F120A setup yet? Having more than one pair of the F120A, I'm interested in a Fonken enclosure for them.
Regards, KM |
Dave can address the questions of release of plans for the larger enclosure, and as they are now at his place for some measurements and further auditioning in a larger room, he could probably snap some pictures as well. Think the same general shape as the standard Fonken design, just stretched a bit in width, and more so in height, and with one additional pair of port slots. (approx 10"W x 12.6"Dx20"H).
Currently they are in naked plywood form, and I'm a bit embarrassed about some of the veneer chip outs that even careful cutting seemed unable to avoid. I've encountered some sheets of this BB that are more prone to cross cut chipping on one face than the other, and you don't know until you cut it. With some filling and sanding before veneering, it's rather moot, but still disappointing when the most precision work is hidden inside. |
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| ped |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Which brings us to those out of left-field projects that have you scratching your head when you look at the parts count/quality or breadboarded circuit. An example of the latter most is an interesting design (by DUO of these forums) of a variable transconductance amp with real-time user adjustable output impedance. Even a quickly hobbled together prototype with “non-audiophile approved” parts is quite an interesting revelation, most particularly when you can dial an adjustment to the pace of that dance that occurs in the matrix that is the room/loudspeaker/amplifier damping factor/source material interface.
For a value of surplus parts less than the cost my last pair of EH 2A3 Gold Grids, (i.e. less than $80), and a few hours labor, this cute little beige box is not easily embarrassed in the company of the big boys. |
Hi Chris,
Is there more info available on this anywhere?
Thanks |
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| kmaier |
| quote: | Originally posted by jrebman
KM,
Should be no surprise that you are the one who got me headed down this path with the F120A. I knew they existed but you are the first person I knew who actually built a box for them and listened to them. That prompted me to go looking for a pair, which I found and bought despite not really having the money for them :D. Then on a whim I called Bud and talked to him about them and he agreed to give them the polka dots. He was really impressed with what he heard so I then contacted Dave to see if these might work in a Fonken, and after a few calculations he said yes, but the proportions would have to be reworked -- both to accomodate the parameters and the size of the large Alnico magnet.
I decided that the development would go a lot better if they actually had a pair in hand to work with, so I sent them on their way, and now Fonkensteen is the result of all this.
I'm looking forward to getting them here and setting them up in their new home. I was originaly intending to use these in my small office system, but they seem to have turned out well enough to become my main speakers in my living room. All to be seen yet, but that's what I'm really thinking is going to happen.
-- Jim |
Hi Jim,
Glad that the F120A is becoming popular. From the limited number of Fostex drivers I've either heard or played with, the F120A is certainly my preferred driver and not by a small margin. I actually bought an additional pair after spending some time with them as the word is production is being phased out once the remaining stock of parts is used up.
The enclosure I built was a simple ported 10-liter based on Fostex literature albeit slightly altered dimensions. It's been a most engaging driver to listen to, much better detail and dynamics, with the FX120 coming in second. I'm looking for a better enclosure but have such limited free time (and moving to Europe for the rest of this year) hence my interest in the Fonken enclosure.
I'll be waiting to hear your feedback on them once you get them setup in your environment.
Regards, KM |
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| kmaier |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Dave can address the questions of release of plans for the larger enclosure, and as they are now at his place for some measurements and further auditioning in a larger room, he could probably snap some pictures as well. Think the same general shape as the standard Fonken design, just stretched a bit in width, and more so in height, and with one additional pair of port slots. (approx 10"W x 12.6"Dx20"H).
Currently they are in naked plywood form, and I'm a bit embarrassed about some of the veneer chip outs that even careful cutting seemed unable to avoid. I've encountered some sheets of this BB that are more prone to cross cut chipping on one face than the other, and you don't know until you cut it. With some filling and sanding before veneering, it's rather moot, but still disappointing when the most precision work is hidden inside. |
Thanks Chris,
I've got some time to kill, so not a problem to wait until Dave gets them fine-tuned and finished up. Would also be interested to hear his feedback as well. I've also found the cutting BB plywood can be a bit of a challenge with chipping as you pointed out... you just don't know until the first cut is made... then it's hindsight.
The F120A is quite a bit less efficient than other FR Fostex drivers, notably the FE126E (Hornshoppe fame) by a good 6dB, but much flatter in frequency response and they seem to extend higher than their specs indicate. Despite the 89dB/1-watt rating, I've enjoyed them with 2-watts. I also tried some more powerful push-pull amps and they don't exhibit the upper midrange "shout" I've experienced with some of the FE series with higher SPLs. I also found that they seem to have tighter specs for sensitivity... my FX120 pair is off by about 1dB while the F120A pair are spot on.
Regards, KM |
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| planet10 |
Thot this would be a good place to post some measured Fonken results.
The results are startling enuff (look at the off axis!) for me to worry a bit about my experience with this kit.
Fuzzmeasure 2.0/PowerBook G3 (Pizmo), Panasonic capsule, Classic Valve Design mic pre. In my 350 m^3 room, RH84 variant as power amp.
1 metre distant, 1/6 octave smoothing, avaerage of 10 measures in each curve. The off-axis is not a calibrated amount, a post after this will be the offer axis set-up, off axis was about 1/2 the amount.
dave |
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| planet10 |
| offer axis setup |
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| Duo |
Hello ped;
I am the 'anywhere' from which information is available ;)
Please do ask some questions, I'll be happy to answer. |
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| jrebman |
So Dave,
Can you give a quick translation in words?
Thanks,
Jim |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jrebman
Can you give a quick translation in words? |
Ignoring the floor bounce (4 dB hole at 550 Hz), the speaker is +/- 2.5dB from 47 Hz to the limit of my measuring kit (~15 KHz). F3 of 45 Hz, F10 of 38 Hz. No evidence of the dreaded 7 kHz peak except on the 45 degree off-axis curve.
Off axiz measures were taken at about 20 degrees and 45 degrees. 20 degrees is smooth and morrors the on axis until about 3KHz. It is down only a dB before it falls off at 14k. The 45 degredd fall-off is more dramatic, and with some undulation, but still at the bottom of the undulations down only 4.5 dB from the on-axis (and as close as 1.5 dB | at 4.8, 7, and 14k)
Adding the FonkenWoofTL, extends bass to F3 of 40 Hz, F10 of 32 Hz (the intention was always to add a touch of bass lift -- the XBL woofers can handle it no problem)
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
A lot of the above technical data is way beyond me but as an 'owner' I can say that after living with them for 2 weeks now they're bloomin' lovely.
Hows that? :)
I've tried them with a little DC coupled 6EM7 amp which they work well with but the DHT 6B4G amp has the edge in my house/set-up. I've still got a whopping big KT88 PP amp to try them with yet but I'm so glued to them and the sound they're producing that it's difficult to turn the music off for long enough to swap amps over....!!!!
Still chuffed,
DTB |
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| chrisb |
DTB -
FWIW, among tubed amps I've like on the several pairs that have filtered through my system, I've just recently found find the magic zone in the area inhabited by the moderate powered SET (DHT or IDHT). i.e. the 7watt Wright Sound 300B by a fair margin out muscles the Bottlehead ParamourII 2A3, and vastly out-nuances the triode wired Jolida EL34P/P.
Interestingly, I've never cared for the BH Paramount 300B, which I've heard a couple of different speakers at past DIY Fests. Indeed, over the years I'd rather learned to disdain this classic tube, as none that I'd heard quite "did it" for me. In fact it was Eddie Vaughn who kept telling me to keep an open mind, and eventually "you'll hear one you like".
What would be interesting to try would be something like the Allen Wright differential design with 2A3. Several years ago I heard Brian Cherry's very nice Joplin 2A3 P/P integrated amp, and it would certainly be on my list of "collectables", but it appears to have be discontinued.
I've honestly listened to only a small handful of SS designs on the Fonkens, and the most musical of those has been the Kingrex T20U, with Daniel Daigle's current project amp a very interesting second place. In fact an early prototype is currently driving Mileva/FE127 in my video system |
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| Dave the bass |
Oooh thats interesting ChrisB, I'm about to play with an AC heated 2A3 project, 300B will come later. I'm still very much a newbie, I've only been building stuff for 2 years or so. I'll 'do' 300B one day but I'm still cutting my teeth ;)
DTB |
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| jrebman |
Dave,
Thanks very much -- sounds just great to me. I think I told Chris I'd be happy with an f3 of about 50-55 Hz, so looks to be quite a bit better than that, and the 2.5 dB flatness across the range is, well, certainly not the typical fostex response :D.
DTB, apologies for taking over your thread, and really glad to hear you're liking yours so much.
Chruis, is that the stock kingrex or the audio magus modified one?
I'd love hear the NuForce Icon as well with these -- a completely different technology than tripath and something that people have been saying good things about.
Thanks again,
Jim |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jrebman
I'd be happy with an f3 of about 50-55 Hz |
Some of the depth has to be room lift, and i expect as the wick is turned up the depth decreases. It will be interesting when we get the gang-plank done and can do more of less free-air measures (ie over 12 feet to closest object)
dave |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by jrebman
Dave,
DTB, apologies for taking over your thread, and really glad to hear you're liking yours so much.
Thanks again,
Jim |
No apologies necessary Jim, its a interseting for me all thats all thats being said :)
Some of it I even understand, a lot of it I don't :xeye: :)
DTB |
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| gurley123 |
| Reading everyones posts on amps made me think that maybe Yeo's "simple EL84" (the 5watt triode version)might be a good match. It's on my list as one of the tube amps to try and build when I think I'm up to it. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by jrebman
Dave,
Thanks very much -- sounds just great to me. I think I told Chris I'd be happy with an f3 of about 50-55 Hz, so looks to be quite a bit better than that, and the 2.5 dB flatness across the range is, well, certainly not the typical fostex response :D.
DTB, apologies for taking over your thread, and really glad to hear you're liking yours so much.
Chruis, is that the stock kingrex or the audio magus modified one?
I'd love hear the NuForce Icon as well with these -- a completely different technology than tripath and something that people have been saying good things about.
Thanks again,
Jim |
Jim - the Kingrex was stock from Audio Magus, with the Kingrex PSU (this system was acquired before Mike was offering the SLAP or his own Battery supply)
I made my own mods to replace the speaker terminals with 3/4" spacing 5-way binding posts (not Vampire AAMOF) and upgrade of the coupling caps. There's not a lot of room inside these little chassis, and it's frankly they're a bit of a PITA to work on - next time I'd probably just order the upgraded version.
I think Mike will have the NuForce Icon "soon", and although I know you don't need a recommendation for yet another budget priced commercial tubed amp, for anyone else reading, the little GLOW EL84 SEP is not to be sniffed at. Well, OK the built-in USB DAC is reputedly its weak point, and I didn't get to hear it that way, but even if you ignore that altogether, for under $500 it's one helluva deal. |
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| jrebman |
Any updates? More listening reports, measurements, etc.?
-- Jim |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by jrebman
Any updates? More listening reports, measurements, etc.?
-- Jim |
Thanks for your patience, Jim - Dave had taken initial measures last weekend, and is now out of town for a few days.
I've been wrestling with a bit of stomach flu while juggling time veneering the boxes since Monday, so there's been no new listening or other news to report. I've revised my plan regarding the finishing - since the Macassar Ebony has more than enough life already, I'll be using a waterborne lacquer rather than solvent based NC lacquer. This is actually a tougher finish, and has the addition benefit of eliminating noxious offgassing |
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| jrebman |
Chris,
Well, didn't even know you had them for veneering, so that's some news.
I've been dealing with some sort of stomach thing too -- today's the first day in almost 2 weeks that I felt anything remotely like a human being.
Is that finish KTM or Oxford by any chance? I'm all for the water base lacquer when it suits the veneer.
Rest up and don't work too hard.
-- Jim |
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| chrisb |
Jim - the finish is Malcolm Campbell Agualente Waterborne Pre-Catalized Lacquer.
Being a waterbased product, it's a "crystal clear finish, meaning it can be a bit cold and plastic looking on naturally pale veneers such as birch, maple, beech, etc., but on stained or naturally darker veneers like the ebony, it's quite pretty. |
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| jrebman |
I totally trust your judgement -- was just curious. Thanks for the explanation. Going to have to try it myself one day.
-- Jim |
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| Dave the bass |
Well, they went on Holiday with us and they sounded lovely
Not ideal positioning so I had to make do with what I had... 19th Century tin Miners Cottages don't seem to have taken on-board speaker placement needs :)
DTB
PS. Still Chuffed. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Well, they went on Holiday with us and they sounded lovely
DTB
PS. Still Chuffed. |
they do grow on ya, don't they? |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
they do grow on ya, don't they? |
Yup they certainly do Chris. I love them. I didn't know it was possible for 4" or so drivers to sound this good in such a little cabinet, it's been a real ear-opening experience for me.
I'm looking at building the FE126 loaded Saburo's over winter to see how they sound. At my first ever DIY fest Scott had a pair of horn about the same size set up and they left a strong impression on me.
I really love the 'speed' of the sound with these little drivers. In retrospect I should have known this as when I used to gig as a bassist I finally found 'my' sound using combinations of 10" drivers in my bass amp cabinets. I went through a few different amps and speakers that used 15" or combinations of 15"/10"/ 2x6" and a horn in EACH cab ( I played in stereo for a while...) but eventually settled with an SWR Super Redhead that uses 2 x10" speakers. I use a further 2 x 10" cab to bolster the sound as even driving the amp flat out at 350Watts it wasn't quite loud enough for some gigs in bigger venues. The extension cab also dropped the impedence to 2R which pulled the full 450Watts out the amp and worked wonders with my playing too as I didn't find myself 'digging into the strings' as hard and thus preserved my finger tone playing. With the 2 x or 4x 10" set-up it's a much 'faster' bass sound I get but does seem ineffecient in a live gigging situation but so what, its a good trade off and the upshot is that I got the sound I'd strived for!
Seems I'm finding the same with little 4" drivers in HiFi cabs too.
Chuffed!
DTB |
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| jrebman |
Dave,
Glad to hear you're loving the fonkens. Once you hear a really good SD speaker and "get it" there's almost never any going back. Kind of like, as you say, finding the right sound for your axe, there's really no need to change it.
I'm definitely looking forward to my Fonkensteens but want the guys to get them just right first.
-- Jim |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by jrebman
Dave,
Glad to hear you're loving the fonkens. Once you hear a really good SD speaker and "get it" there's almost never any going back. Kind of like, as you say, finding the right sound for your axe, there's really no need to change it.
I'm definitely looking forward to my Fonkensteens but want the guys to get them just right first.
-- Jim |
sounded pretty damned sweet last night as I was installing the felt fillers around the outside of the frame.
Alison Krauss never sounded so vulnerable or desirable... but I digress
there's a "hidden" track on one of the AK&US discs that is the sound of banjo string(s) breaking and the resultant laughter during a studio sound check - pretty interesting test of dynamics / harmonics. |
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| jrebman |
Chris,
I like that report :D.
I dunno, Robert Plante probably has a pretty big guy or two following them around :-). Gotta love her voice though.
-- Jim |
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| mantisory |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
Thanks Chris, it's thanks to Mr Friendly Joiner next door that I got those cuts done. He reckoned I'd done OK too but noted I had a 0.5mm twist on one of the sides of the cabs so I wouldn't get a job with him :) He's hard on me. I'll 'diss' his soldering next time he wants help;)
DTB |
Did you make the angled cuts on a jointer? Or was it a table saw? Just wondering... |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by mantisory
Did you make the angled cuts on a jointer? Or was it a table saw? Just wondering... |
Mr Freindly Joiner cut the 45 degree angles for me on a hoooooge great table saw.
HTH.
DTB |
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| Dave the bass |
Just to round this thread off I thought I'd post this piccie...
Left to right... Fonken/Onken/Plonken
:)
DTB |
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| chrisb |
Dave - in the last few days I've spent enough late hours in the evening listening to various combos of gear on Fonkenized* F120A and FE167E that I certainly recognize the crazed look; but I'd never resort to eating fat free yogurt for sustenance -(or if I did, all evidence would immediately be destroyed) :clown: - it's whole grain taco chips / nuked cheddar cheese & a highball of chilled Absolut for me.
*has anyone created a Wikipedia entry yet for that name? |
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| Dave the bass |
:)
I'm a Hippie Vegetarian Chris, I eat leads of yog's and pulses and stuff.
Cheese/Taco's? Oooohhh I dunno about that... wouldn't want to risk loosing my supermodel good looks and figure...;)
Now then, Ale, that's a different matter altogether...
DTB |
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| AdamThorne |
... there's a fonken for the 167?
ah, as I search, little whispers of it.
Please tell us more of that one. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by AdamThorne
... there's a fonken for the 167? |
nice catch, Adam
watch for proceedings of Dave's DIY fest this weekend for a sneak peak at the first rough prototype
hint - dimensions were juggled a bit to make it a floorstander, therefore it's slightly shallower than the FE127 / F120A ; even so, there is a small void cavity at the bottom that should probably will be ultimately filled with kitty litter, etc.
if there's time over the weekend, we might also try the FF165K in this design |
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| Duo |
| quote: | | even so, there is a small void cavity at the bottom that should probably will be ultimately filled with kitty litter, etc. |
And hopefully a hole so the kitty can still get in to use it I presume? |
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| Dave the bass |
Finally got around to to trimming off the excess on the sandystands that Chrisb suggested I shave off a couple of pages back in the thread.
Howzat? Nothing pokes out beyond the footprint of the speaker. I took a 1/4" off all around.
Still sooooooooo pleased with these little Fonkens, they're brilliant.
I've actually now sold my MLTL's and the Rogers recently... yes... I'm that happy with them but I'm still going to attempt a pair of 126eN Saburo's this winter. I think I've got the 4" DIY speaker bug :)
DTB |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave the bass
I've actually now sold my MLTL's and the Rogers recently... yes... I'm that happy with them but I'm still going to attempt a pair of 126eN Saburo's this winter. I think I've got the 4" DIY speaker bug :)
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:)
:) |
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| Scottmoose |
| Nice one Dave. :) |
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| strider75 |
| quote: |
Howzat? Nothing pokes out beyond the footprint of the speaker. I took a 1/4" off all around.
Still sooooooooo pleased with these little Fonkens, they're brilliant.
I've actually now sold my MLTL's and the Rogers recently... yes... I'm that happy with them but I'm still going to attempt a pair of 126eN Saburo's this winter. I think I've got the 4" DIY speaker bug :)
DTB [/B] |
Looking good, Dave. I'm really hoping you document your Saburo build like you've done this one. This one really got me excited to try my hand at a pair of Fonken's for myself. I'm not quite done, but am already looking ahead to my next pair. The Saburo's definitely on that list and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it. |
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| Dave the bass |
| quote: | Originally posted by strider75
I'm really hoping you document your Saburo build like you've done this one. |
Of course, no problem. It won't be untill near/over Christmas though as I've got a stack of bits top sort before then amp/TT/Phono stage wise.
DTB |
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