| GCD750 |
Hi All,
I have a 1997 Rega Planar 3 with an RB300 arm, classic plinth design(square, unlike the P3-2000), and it started vibrating. Replaced bearing oil(recommended weight gear oil) as per specifications. Finally I found that the plastic motor pulley(not detached from motor, needs no crazy glue, etc.) was riding high, and rubbing against the bottom of the glass platter.
The cartridge is a new Benz-Micro Ace (Hi output) that I just had mounted and adjusted last week(not that it makes any difference, right?)
Is there some kind of adjustment to be made for the motor, or pulley, though it's suspended by rubber bands? Any help would be appreciated here. : ) |
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| GCD750 |
| By the way, the two top screws at the top of the plinth by the pulley hole, are regular screwdriver blade, small screws with washers. Someone told me years ago that they are *usually* allen screws? This was bought new by me, and never had any mods, as far as I can tell. |
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| YNWOAN |
You are correct in thinking the cartridge is irrelevant to your motor issue.
Don't know about the screws I'm afraid but as they are, essentially, into wood (through a plastic laminate) I would be surprised if they had a socket head as these are more commonly found on machine screws (i.e. not for wood).
The plastic pulley on the Rega motor is a bit notorious for coming loose from the motor drive shaft. In your case I suspect that, rather than just spinning, it has worked its way up the shaft a little. I suggest that (holding the motor) you push it back down the motor shaft a little - a small dab of Super-Glue may also be needed. |
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| sq225917 |
if it has started vibrating it could be mechanical or electrical.
electrical could mean the trim pots on the pcb under the deck have drifted out, or the phasing cap could be on the way out.
if it's mechanical then it could be a dry motor bearing, just drip on drip on light machine oil down the spindle into the motor body.
if not that then it could be loose against the rebated plinth surface, you can tighten it up or place some thin rubber spacers betweeen the top of the motor and the rebated plinth.
i'm not sure how these are fitted, some models use sticky pads, others use allen head bolts that go through the plinth and motor body into plastic legs.
if yours is sticky pads, then remove, clean and replace with 3M adhesive pads.
a picture would help. |
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| GlidingDutchman |
Hi GCD!
The Rega motor upgrade kits have a piece of bond tape (double sided tape) included by which the motor is mounted to the plinth. This require removing the suspended rubber mounting flange.
Now this is where I am getting... get a few inches of good bond tape (3M and such used to mount mirrors to walls). Carefully remove the old motor mount system and stick the motor to the plinth with the double sided tape (as per Rega motor upgrade).
I manufacture a Rega based turntable and mount all my motors in this fashion. It works like a charm.
Cheers
D |
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| GCD750 |
My main concern with this table, is obtaining the proper motor height(if there is such a spec, or a measurement for spacing between the top of the pulley, and glass platter) and that the screws that are there are what came with it new.
They are small flat blade silver machine screws with washers. I loosened them, and pushed the motor down, which I'm imagining that the suspension is adjustable?) and it seems to be running okay, without hitting the platter.
The belt when set on 33-1/3, rides around 1/8th of an inch from the top of the plastic subplatter. The pully/shaft has a bit of play when you pull up on it, but both metal shaft, and plastic pulley, seems to be firmly attached to one another.
Here are some pictures of it's present state:
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview....zi0yemz&thumb=4
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview....muzxyxt&thumb=4
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview....ytsymti&thumb=4
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview....djzztjt&thumb=4
Any advice will be very appreciated!:)
Thanks! |
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| planarboy |
I got a thrust bearing from stuart at SRM/tech, removed the whole fixing bit and just stuck it on with double sided Scotch tape, I had the tape two pieces thick and it is fine.
That thrust bearing is pricey but I reckon it works. |
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| sq225917 |
| looks like you would benefit from removing the screws and refitting the motor from underneath using some 3M pads as self adhesive spacers between the motor top plate and the underside of the plinth. |
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| woodturner-fran |
From your pics it looks like you have the AC motor version of the P3. The later ones I believe had DC motors.
Could you let us know which it is?
FWIW, only the DC motors were stuck to the plinth becuase these were quiet enough not to need the isolation afforded by the rubber o-ring mounting.
On yours, the two screws (M3 I think) screw through the formica coating and into the alumimiun bar you can just see underneath the hole. A rubber o-ring loops around this and the motor flanges and suspends the motor underneath. Positioning of the o-ring adjusts the motor position. Its fiddly to set up but I think once you're done, its OK.
If this is the kind you have, maybe some adjustment on the o-ring might do the trick for you. I also think you should try taking off the pulley and then reseating it. It does work loose and rides up on the shaft. That probably the most likely reason for the height problem. A little bit of thread lock on the shaft will retain it in place but allow you to remove it in the future should the need arise
Fran |
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| planarboy |
You undo the screws a little bit and pull the motor this way and that way and position it better.
Be gentle with the screws, especially if they are plastic. Make sure you have the right size screwdriver.
I wrecked two of them screws, and then I had to force a new thread thru the aluminium bit with hard drive screws, and that was good. |
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| GCD750 |
Thank you all for the advice : )
I believe this has the AC motor...I wouldn't think that mounting it with double sided tape may be a good idea? :D |
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| woodturner-fran |
Correct!
well it will work OK but there is more vibration from the AC motor so the sonics won't be happy.
Try the pulley and see if that works first. Don't disturb the o-ring if you don't have to. If it ain't broke and all that....
Fran |
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| sq225917 |
| rega have never used dc motors. |
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| GCD750 |
| quote: | Originally posted by sq225917
rega have never used dc motors. |
I think you are right on that. I think even the present motors are A/C with external low voltage power supplies. |
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| coolmaster |
At 33rpm setting, the belt should ride just a bit above center of the subplatter wheel.
There's 2 possibilites the belt is riding higher than normal
1. The motor pulley has loosened out and sits higher on the shaft.
2. There's undue wear at the bottom of the subplatter spindle shaft at the ball bearing bottom end. I've seen this once before, suspected of starved lubrication. The subplatter and ball bearing had to be renewed. When there's wear down there, its obvious the subplatter height will sit lower and may even rub the bearing flange.
Remove the subplatter wheel, being careful not to loose the 3/16" ball bearing. Inspect the bottom of the spindle shaft and ensure there's no wear. A very tiny indent where it meets the ball bearing is normal. Anything more than that is considered worn. Re lube with 2-3 drops of SAE90 gear lube on one side of the spindle, tilt the table and reinstall the subplatter assembly carefully without turning it. It'll take some minutes for the subplatter to fully seat in.
If you can show me a clear close up picture of the bottom of the subplatter spindle, I could tell you its condition.
Hope my advice helps. |
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| sq225917 |
| could just be you have lost the ball... |
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| coolmaster |
| quote: | Originally posted by sq225917
could just be you have lost the ball... |
That could be it!.
I wish Rega would have done away with that ball long ago and have a tapered hardened at the tip like some other makes. Errr!...I forgot the Rega was supposed to be cheap!
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| GCD750 |
| I think the ball is most likely still there...My Rega dealer stated that he re-lubed the bearing assembly. I'll get some 80W gear oil and inspect the shaft, and take some pics of the subplatter bottom section. |
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| GCD750 |
Okay...Added 3 drops of SAE 80W gear oil, let subplatter insert itself(took like an hour!)
Took another look at the motor. Gave it a nice solid "push" down from the top of the pulley, and it seems it clicked down further on the motor shaft, hopefully I didn't damage the motor lol.
Maybe the pulley rode up too high, somehow. If I can manage to get the pulley off, I'll put a drop of crazy glue or loctite on the motor shaft, and put the plastic pulley back on, as far down it will go.? |
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| sq225917 |
| the pulley should be at the very top of the shaft, the pulley hole and shaft should be flush on the top surface. |
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| coolmaster |
Your picture of the shaft (although blur) doesn't show any undue wear. It looks normal and fine.
You can use a thinner diameter magnetized screwdriver to fish out the ball bearing. Hope the ball is still there, otherwise buy one to replace it immediately. The ball is a plain 4.75mm or 3/16" diameter ball bearing. No big deal. Another way is to unlock the bearing bolt underneath and remove the entire assembly for fully degreasing and cleanup. The assembly can be eased up to remove from the plinth. Its that simple. No rocket science here.
I had mentioned earlier apply oil only to one side of the spindle and let it settle down by itself in a matter of minutes. It'll take some time for air to be pushed out and the oil forms an air tight seal after turning. No need to apply pressure to seat it in and there shouldn't be any side play.
I had a look at mine and there should be roughly 1mm of gap between the subplatter wheel and plinth for things to be correct in that department.
I don't suggest you to hand pluck out the motor pully if the motor is fixed. The motor is attached to the plinth with only the laminate inbetween the motor and plinth. You're advised to remove the whole motor assembly for pulley removal.
If I'm not mistaken the PLASTIC Pulley type have to be quickly seated in fully after a tiny a dab of super glue on the motor shaft. If I can recall, there's no through at the top to to see its flush with the end of the motor shaft.
The NEW type motor and pulley is made of aluminum or alloy and the pulley hole is right through, thus should be flush with the end of the motor shaft to be correct.
I'd personally suggest any Planar 3 owner to purchase the upgrade motor for better performance, a newer design and lease of life intending to keep this turntable indefinitely. Hope all the above helps. |
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| GCD750 |
Here is a picture of what it's looking like right now:
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview....t1t41jx&thumb=4
Coolmaster, when you mention the 1mm gap, are you referring to underneath, where the subplatter rests on top of the brass bearing assembly?
The ball bearing is still there. I looked inside before I re-inserted the subplatter/shaft.
It looks like there is a smidgon of oil between the bearing housing and subplatter, looks around 1mm to me. : )
The motor is the elastic-mounted style with the plastic pulley wheel. When I pushed this down, the shaft didn't come through the top, or any damage like that. Let me know your thoughts on the picture, when possible. Thanks!:cool: |
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| coolmaster |
| quote: | Originally posted by GCD750
Coolmaster, when you mention the 1mm gap, are you referring to underneath, where the subplatter rests on top of the brass bearing assembly?
The motor is the elastic-mounted style with the plastic pulley wheel. When I pushed this down, the shaft didn't come through the top, or any damage like that. Let me know your thoughts on the picture, when possible. Thanks!:cool: [/B] |
I looked at your initial pictures again and its pointing at A-OK, ruling out undue wear at the subplatter department. Leave that now.
I'm thinking and almost positive the motor pulley is riding high on the motor shaft and in any case, it MUST NOT be touching or rubbing the glass platter at all.
I think you now have to do something now to remove the motor assembly and repositioning the pulley so that the belt rides a little more than midway at the wheel and the motor pulley is not in contact with the glass platter. |
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| planarboy |
| Coolermaster is right, no rocket science, when I had to play with my planar 3 i was a little scared, but there is nothing at all that is high precision. Rip it all apart, so to speak, chuck it back together, you'll know that soon anyway, but be careful with the two screws for the motor asembly if they are the plastic type. |
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| GCD750 |
| Thanks for all your help! I know it's really not rocket science, but I was thinking that there may be certain specs that this unit had to be set at. I want to flip it and take the motor cover off and check out the works, and take some pics, but *quite* weary of how to manage this, without doing any harm to the oil-filled platter assembly, and more importantly, the RB 300, with an unprotected Benz Micro Ace that's mounted on it.:D |
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| coolmaster |
Few precautions.
ALWAYS remove the whole tonearm assembly and put aside, if you going to do serious work to the turntable like disassembling the motor, main bearing or both.
Its best also to remove the subplatter assembly and ball bearing in event that the table is going to be flipped over. Clean out the bearing of any oil to prevent mess. Do NOT flip over the plinth and let it rest on the subplatter spindle or motor pulley. If the motor still is in place, you could flip the plinth over and rest on a pack of books on each side like a form of underside support whilst you work on the motor area.
Never turn the TT upside down with the subplatter in place. Oil may leak out. This concur with handling and storage instructions that the TT is never to be stored upside down.
To remove the motor, you have to carefully unsolder the wires ( carefully noting for re-soldering back) at the PCB. Remove the 2 plastic screws that fasten the aluminum bracket. ENSURE you use a proper fit Philips screwdriver to unfasten. The plastic screws can get damaged easily if the driver bit is not a perfect fit.
Try obtain new O ring (a smaller diameter by 1-2 sizes can also do), replace the old one if its been many years. |
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| planarboy |
| If you need it I can send you an o-ring. |
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| coolmaster |
What I've done for others before is after installing a new O-ring and bracket, ready to bolt it the whole motor back, I'd stick on quality double side tape onto the bracket (carefully but not over the O-ring) and bolt the whole assembly back on the laminate. The motor pulley must be positioned as center as possible at the hole. DO NOT push the motor in too hard against the laminate. In practice, the motor hangs from the thin laminate, NOT the thickness of the plinth. A little off center but away from the subplatter wheel is permissible. Too near and there'll be more belt slack. Use your best judgement to tackle this.
The new type motor assembly (although initially seen as simply stuck on with double sided tape) will NEVER fall off. The motor is stuck permanently but it has a bottom bearing cover and another double side tape disc stuck and aligned to support the bottom of the motor. With the cover plate in place, it's permanent. This does away with screws at the top side. Brilliant! |
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| tubenut |
Just sticking the old motor with ds tape is not a smart plan IMO. The Rega upgrade also involves a new PCB with some circuit tricks reducing motor vibration over the old cap/resistor type as well as a thrust pad. This makes hard mounting less of an issue. Use a stethoscope to evaluate before and after properly. If it was so easy to mount the motor vibration free you really think Rega would go through the schlep of the ally plate and o ring and all that? They could make more cash mounting the simple way which they now do, they got rid of the hardware and added some tape and a resistor or 2 to the circuit.
SRM offer better solutions for old motors with their silent base kit!
I can PM the motor angle set up / troubleshooting guide Rega had on their website by accident a little while ago. Take care with those plastic screws! |
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| woodturner-fran |
I'd love a copy of that set up guide - you can email me through here if you get a chance.
TIA,
Fran |
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| coolmaster |
tubenut is generally correct if using DS tape thoughtlessly.
The old O ring method was OK but did not last and after some years the motor would rattle on startup. I'm assuming most Rega owner would not detect the faulty O ring nor have a clue to solve the motor rattle which most would live with the problem till the next upgrade.
Anyway, I'm all for any Rega owner to spend some money to renew to the upgrade motor kit once and for all, inspect and re-lube the bearings every 5 years for another lease of life of Roy Gandy's greatest budget TT ever invented.
Ultimately, I'm really hoping I could upgrade my P3 to the newer 24VAC motor plus motor controller. I'm really hoping Rega comes up with this offer in due course and enjoying a more accurate 33/45rpm speed.
tubenut, you're lucky to have those service instructions too. ;) |
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| java |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubenut
[
I can PM the motor angle set up / troubleshooting guide Rega had on their website by accident a little while ago. Take care with those plastic screws! [/B] |
I'd appreciate a copy of those setup instructions as well, please.
Regards,
Russell |
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| linenlad |
| Anyone know where I can purchase the ball bearing for the platter shaft on a rega p-3 |
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| rolleye |
| try Stuart at SRM/Tech for stainless steel ball bearing |
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| sq225917 |
| 'vx ball bearings' in the states, buy a ceramic one, they do a tungsten carbide in the right size. |
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