| h_a |
For those keen on F3 pcbs, a group buy is considered. If you're interested, you can express your wanted # of boards either in the
F3 pcb group buy Wiki
or in the original Zen#9 pcb group buy thread
Zen#9 group buy thread
In case someone has missed it, the F3 is a tuned version of the Zen#9.
Nelson himself says
| quote: | The two are very similar, and from the DIY perspective
the differences are not worth bothering about.
The F3 has some refinements more applicable to those
with sophisticated test equipment. |
However I'm always a fan of improvements and better measurement results usually translate into better sounding.
Cheers, Hannes |
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| Nelson Pass |
| quote: | Originally posted by h_a
Nelson himself says... |
Nelson himself prefers a good Bordeaux or Cabernet.
:cool: |
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| h_a |
Hi Nelson!
Hey that's a great gesture to say thank you for what you do for us!
It's just a shame that the problem is not getting a decent wine but sending it to you without breaking it nor paying a multiple of the wine's worth for shipping. In the moment I figure out how to do that I send you whatever the local wine specialists recommend me! Promised!
Or in the moment I no longer have this student budget but a real one ;-))
Cheers, Hannes
PS: by the way I'm NOT organizing the group buy, so please don't mail me for details; I just try to impress PD so that he starts the group buy ;-)) |
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| h_a |
So upto now I count about 56 stereo sets !
PD already told me that he is willing todo the group buy (I know he wouldn't call it a group buy ;-)), so that's great news!
Cheers, Hannes |
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| RoboMan |
| Hannes, thanks for the effort! |
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| h_a |
Thanks a lot, but cmon I don't do anything! Just a bit advertising :D
Cheers, Hannes |
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| marsupialx |
Ok, I don't get it. The Wiki for F3 says "Document last modified Thu, 07 Dec 2006'
If there is still a possible F3 board available, I'd be interested. Thanks, Jeffrey Hill (marsupialx) |
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| h_a |
Yeah the time stamp is freaky.
Don't worry I set up the wiki-page in June 07 and the boards are not even ordered yet!
I added you for a stereo-set!
Anyway, Peter told me that he's going to order a larger number (larger than the # in the wiki).
All the best, Hannes |
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| marsupialx |
| Ok, now I admit to being dumber than a box of rocks, or simply fatigued in the extreme, or both, but...I don't need the PS boards, and I can't figure out how to modify the Wiki. I went to the Wiki sandbox, and sat there for awhile. Just the amp boards please, thanks.-Jeffrey Hill (marsupialx) |
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| RoboMan |
| Click the line near the bottom that says "Click here now to edit ...." and you may be asked to enter your User name and password. Then you can make changes. |
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| h_a |
Don't worry Jeff, psu-boards are removed!
Cheers, Hannes
PS: by the way we just hit the 80 boards mark. Cool. |
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| h_a |
Small update: presumably this week PD will adapt the Zen#9 layout to the F3.
The order itself has to wait until somebody confirms that the F4 boards are working (PD wants to order the F3 boards together with the F4 boards) - so come on people! Build the F4 and let Peter know!
Cheers, Hannes |
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| tbrooke |
F4 v F3
Is there an F4 pc group buy? What are the differances from the f3? I'm on the F3 list and haven't paid much arttention to the F4.
Tom |
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| h_a |
Since noone replied, I throw in that few I know about the F4.
The F3 is a power jfet amp which in my opinion has really everything it needs to become a classic or legend (read the Zen#8 and Zen#9 articles!!), stunning performance for a single stage amp and in my eyes outstandingly elegantly achieved.
The F4 is a powerbuffer offering only current gain (other amps do voltage gain) and I think no feedback at all. Especially recommended for high sensitivity speakers. PD does also a group buy.
But this is more or less all I know, better inform yourself at firstwatt.
Cheers, Hannes |
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| RoboMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by tbrooke
F4 v F3
Is there an F4 pc group buy? What are the differances from the f3? I'm on the F3 list and haven't paid much arttention to the F4.
Tom |
Peter Daniel has made some PCB for F4. But they are all sold out at the moment. He may order more later. See this link:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...=&pagenumber=20 |
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| lordvader |
| Can the F4 PSU be used as a single rail supply the F4 is dual rail, I think, while the F3 is sinlge rail ...) ? |
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| Peter Daniel |
| Although F4 PS board is symmetrical, it can be configured into dual single rail as well; it's just a matter of reverswing wires in one of the supplies. |
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| h_a |
It's amazing.
I just realized that Nelson has put the very same psu-schematic into the F3 and the F4 service manual.
Amazing, because he himself seems to use the very same psu-boards for both amps, since it's obviously copy & paste including both the 18V secondaries and the dual rail wiring - which the F3 both doesn't use.
Since the F3 gets fed with about twice of the F4 voltage rails, 50V, I guess the mere problem is the larger diameter of the higher voltage caps.
By the way, what is the schematic for your psu-boards, Peter? I see a TO-220 on the board which does not exist in the F4-psu schematic.
Cheers, Hannes |
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| gabkw |
I am looking at the PS for the F3 (I think) - It shows a 2 section symmetrical section with a +V rail, GND, and a -V rail with a thermistor seperating GND from Chassis ground. So how do you wire this up to get the +50V rail needed for the F3?
Rewire the two 18VAC secondaries of the transformer so that you get 36VAC and just use the upper section of the PS board?
Or ???
Also - Is there a parts list available for the F3 PS?
Gab |
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| jarthel |
| where do you plan to get the loveltech part? their website seems to non-existent and searching the net doesn't turn up any other corporate website. |
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| Magura |
| quote: | Originally posted by jarthel
where do you plan to get the loveltech part? their website seems to non-existent and searching the net doesn't turn up any other corporate website. |
Try the search button.....works wonders :rolleyes:
Magura |
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| h_a |
@Gab: as I pointed out previously the psu schematic of the F3 is not correct. It's just copy and paste of the F4. However it's not faulty itself, just the wiring is not correct for the F3. So instead of wiring the trafo secondaries 18-0-18 you wire the symmetrical halves of the pcb identically, use a different transformer (or the same, but the windings in series) and get - tada! - 50V.
That's exactly the reason why Peter pointed out we could reuse the F4 psu-boards, which is a nice thing, but the requirement of twice the voltage ratings of the F4 are expected to not permit this, only in case there's enough space.
Cheers, Hannes
PS: @jarthel: even if I spoil your searching experience, GRollins is selling them, but unfortunately only within the US. But better look into the specific thread (I'm sure you'll find that one yourself), I think there are also some other volunteers which send them to other countries. |
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| jarthel |
| quote: | Originally posted by h_a
PS: @jarthel: even if I spoil your searching experience, GRollins is selling them, but unfortunately only within the US. But better look into the specific thread (I'm sure you'll find that one yourself), I think there are also some other volunteers which send them to other countries. |
thanks h_a
My mistake was to search on the internet and not in the forum :( |
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| SMathews |
Hi Peter,
For your ZV9, you had all the PCB/fets mounted on a copper plate and attached to the heat sink using thermal grease. I guess one could re-use the heat sinks by swapping the ZV9 board and copper plate, with a F4 board and copper plate. Also using your "universal power supply board", will allow one to re-sue the power supply components too. Not to forget the chassis for the amp. Any thing I'm missing here?
Simmonds Mathews |
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| Peter Daniel |
Here's the revised layout of Zv9. It is basically F3, with exception of R13 which I didn't include (in that case P1 becomes 10k).
Please check for any errors. I will try to finalize the matching PS board tomorrow. It will be the same size as two channels F3 PCB and will accept caps up to 2" dia. |
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| jameshillj |
Peter,
If it isn't too "late in the day" for changes to the pcb design, could room be squeezed in for "small" bipass caps on all the electrolytics such as 1uF MKP/65v Wima, Rifa 425, etc.
Could this also be extended to the powewr supply?
My F3 has been upgraded with Propylene (MKP-10) and some Styrene (Rifa pfe 216) including the P/Supply and it has dramatically improved the sound of this amazing amplifier.
... jh |
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| Peter Daniel |
There are few reasons I did not include additional bypasses:
1 I wanted to keep the board size same as previously and there are 2 additional electrolytics now which make layout tighter.
2 I also wanted to be as close to original F3 schematic as possible, and Nelson did not implemented bypasses either (except for triplets at the output, which I also did).
3 I could probably still squeeze ROE MKP 1837 (10nF) at C2, C5, C6, C7, but so far I never found bypassing electrolytics as an improvement. Sure, the tonality changes, but it always happens at the expense of "purity" and "freshenss" of the sound. So whenever I modify older equipment, bypasses are first to go. But I'm very particular what type of electrolytics I'm using.
I tried adding 0.1uF V-Caps to 10,000uF Jensen at the output in my initial version of Zv9. It improved highs, adding more resolution and air, but I still wasn't sure if keeping just the Jensens wasn't overall a better approach. In the end I went with a single Siemens MKV for a tweeter and BG N 330/100 for midrange driver.
If you like bypasses, you can still add them soldering underneath the board directly to the eletrolytic pins, that would be probably also the best way to implement them. |
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| Peter Daniel |
I was thinking about making bigger PS board, but nothing really made much sense here. So finally I decided to use same layout as for F4, with the exception that both halves are now positive only. I also added pads for larger caps, like Sikorel 22,000/40 or Elna 22,000/50.
There are two ways to use the PS board: either as two separate power supplies, feeding from 2 x 18V transformer with secondaries in series each, one half of the board per channel. In that case caps need to be rated 63V or so.
You can also use secondaries separately, powering both halves independently and connecting outputs in series (GND with V+). That will also produce 46V but the advantage here is the use lower voltage rated caps (25V or so) and having more overall capacitance, possibly one boards per two channels.
As before, TO-220 components are for optional regulators, in case somebody finds different use for the board. |
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| h_a |
Hi Peter!
Nice artwork! However I cannot see the physical dimensions of the boards? Since there are no more different lead spacings for the caps, what is the lead spacing you chose for the 220uF caps?
As far as I can guess, they're ~7mm, would be really great if you could add optional 5mm spacings as in the Zen#9 boards!! I think a lot of people would appreciate this since they can use Panasonic FCs or Panasonic FMs then!
Or am I wrong?
All the best, Hannes |
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| Peter Daniel |
Of course, I will add additional pads for the caps.
The single channel amp board is 2.75 x 4.1
PS board is 4.8 x 3.4 |
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| h_a |
| Thanks a lot! All the best, Hannes |
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| Peter Daniel |
| I will order boards tonight: 100sets of stereo amp board and 100 pcs of PS PCB |
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| jameshillj |
Peter,
Could you add my name to the list for two amp and two p/supply pcbs if this is still possible. Unfortunately, I'm having some difficulty with the Wiki. Incidently, how are these paid for - Paypal? ... James Hill |
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| Peter Daniel |
I will order double what's in a Wiki presently, so should be enough for everybody. The two channel amp board set will probably cost $12, PS board $15, prices include shipping and handling. All boards will be goldplated. Preferred payment by paypal, but cash, MO, bank transfer or personal check will be also accepted. Lead time approx 2-3 weeks.
James, your name has been added to Wiki. |
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| jameshillj |
| Thanks - much appreciated |
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| Maousse |
Hello Peter,
Is payment launched yet? |
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| Peter Daniel |
| Not yet, I will start taking orders after I receive confirmation that boards are in production. |
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| guglielmope |
Peter,
I'm having some difficulty with the Wiki.Could you add my name to the list for two amp and two p/supply pcbs if this is still possible. I'll pay with Paypal.
Thanks
Guglielmo |
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| aesse54 |
| quote: | Originally posted by guglielmope
Peter,
I'm having some difficulty with the Wiki.Could you add my name to the list for two amp and two p/supply pcbs if this is still possible. I'll pay with Paypal.
Thanks
Guglielmo |
Peter, if there is still time could you please add also my name to the list for four amp and four ps pcbs? Paypal also for me. Thanks, alessandro |
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| twitchie |
| Thanks for running this Hannes and thanks for making the boards Peter. I'm down for 4 channels of amp boards |
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| groov |
Could someone please point to where the Wiki should be found?
Thanks |
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| RoboMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by groov
Could someone please point to where the Wiki should be found?
Thanks |
The page in Wiki was used to estimate how many people were interested. There is no need to add your requirement in Wiki now. Just watch this thread. Peter will announce how to pay him when it is ready. |
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| marsupialx |
| It's funny to me, or it goes against my preconceptions, that all of these amp projects seem to include parts that are made out of nearly pure unobtainium. Power Jfets, lateral power mosfets, matched of course. I had this idea that I was going to pull out my mouser catalog...instead I'm buying Buz900 mosfets from some guy in London, and getting other rare parts through the goodness of fellow members. Thanks, guys. What a fun community of whackos. |
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| marsupialx |
| The Buz900 lateral mosfets referred to in the previous post are not for this project. Don't want to confuse anyone with my ramblings. Just had no idea that cool parts were so difficult to obtain. |
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| john65b |
Please add me to the "want" list for the boards.
Thanks |
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| si_jopie0382 |
Dear Peter,
I've already add my name in wiki.
When it ready please let me know how to pay
Cheers |
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| h_a |
@Peter: do I see correctly that you use Common-Cathode diodes in dual package (2 diodes per TO-247) for the psu-board?
May I ask why you stick with 4 diodes then (3 would be sufficient?)? My problem is at the moment to locate dual common-cathode diodes; so far I could only find one from ST (the fancy diodes are usually single package=2 pins and the standard recovery duals have different pin out).
All the best, Hannes |
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| Magura |
MUR3020WT, MUR3060WT,
Magura |
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| h_a |
Thanks for the tip! I really missed these 2!
Cheers, Hannes |
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| Mickeman |
Peter,
What pad size will there be for C8? Judging from the image posted some time ago it looks like 5-6 mm.
It would be nice to fit something like RIFA PHE426/450 but if it’s 5-6mm size will be a problem. What part did you have in mind when you designed?
Great work and many thanks for the hours spent designing, not to mention the distribution of the PCB's!
BR
Mikael |
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| Peter Daniel |
| C8 spacing is 10.5mm. I didn't use that cap in my amp though. |
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| hc167 |
| I just added myself to the group buy. I hope I am not doing it too late. for the F3 pcb. |
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| traw |
Imagine discussed somewhere else, but likely useful to have on this thread.
How is P1 and P2 to be adjusted? From ZV9 doc assuming P1 to bring drain on Q2 to ~23 volt, or half supply voltage. How is P2 to be adjusted? |
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| Babowana |
| quote: | Originally posted by traw
How is P1 and P2 to be adjusted? From ZV9 doc assuming P1 to bring drain on Q2 to ~23 volt, or half supply voltage. How is P2 to be adjusted?
|
I'm immersed in the red wine came from the downunder at this time of writing.
Well well . . .
If I try to peep into Papa's mind, it seems that P1 is for the dc voltage of about 18.5V at the centre of voltage swing while P2 is there for bias current gain adjustment.
If any one wants to argue, who could stop it . . .
:darkside: |
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| traw |
ah ha... got one up and running (home made etch similar to PD's layout - too anxious and OCD)
my rail voltage is 46 unloaded, 43 loaded 500 va.
easy nuff to adjust P1 for drain on Q2 to be midpoint... drain on power jfet varies when adjust, rise for moment then falls back to 2.9 or so. Using the stock 2+2+2.7 parallel network. Should I up the network resistance or lower?
On P2 adjustment... what should i shoot for? Look for what current where? What looking across the resistor network but imagine maybe look somewhere else. |
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| h_a |
Seems Peter is too busy so I pass the good news: boards are already done and probably ready next week!
Cheers! Hannes |
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| Maousse |
Great!
so, when and how do we pay? That is the question ;) |
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| korben69 |
| Yep ! Same question as Maousse... |
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| h_a |
Don't worry about that! You will find an opportunity to get rid of your money!
Just give Peter the time to get his hands on the boards.
All the best, Hannes |
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| Flecko |
Great that there are new PCB's ready!!! The last time I missed the PCB's close. I hope I am not to late this time :bigeyes: I like two PS boards and two F3 boards if there are some left.
Greetings Adrian :) |
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| guglielmope |
I'm very happy for pcb.
Now I'm tryng to collect the other parts.
A 18+18V 300VA power transformer may be enough for the stereo F3 version?
Thanks
Guglielmo |
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| Maousse |
| quote: | Originally posted by h_a
Don't worry about that! You will find an opportunity to get rid of your money!
Just give Peter the time to get his hands on the boards.
All the best, Hannes |
OK :D |
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| Peter Daniel |
| I received the boards today. They came out really nice. |
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| hc167 |
| the board look nice. |
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| Peter Daniel |
| That board will also accept screw terminal caps, like Sikorel. |
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| Peter Daniel |
The amp board has a scoring line and is good for two channels.
The PS board is good for dual mono supply. If you want to add more capacitance, you would need two of those boards.
Prices below include shipping and handling:
Amp board (2 channels) $13
PS board $15
Prices in USD, paypal payment to my e-mail address posted here: http://audiosector.com/contact.asp
All boards will be shipped by airmail, with no tracking and no insurance and I cannot assume responsibility for lost packages. If you need insurance, please add $7 to your order. |
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| hc167 |
Peter:
I will send you payment within 48 hours through paypal. Thanks a lot for your effort. |
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| Fuling |
Money sent.
Those boards looks great! |
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| hc167 |
Peter
payment has sent. thanks a lot. |
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| Peter Daniel |
| Payments received, ships tomorrow. Thanks. |
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| lordvader |
Sent !!!
Looking forward to receiving these babies ! Now just gotta get all the other stuff .....
$$$$$$ :( |
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| Peter Daniel |
Payments received, thanks.
Please note that due to space limitation, I did not include R13 in the board layout; P1 should be now 10k. |
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| claiborne |
Peter,
Payment sent. Thanks again!
-claiborne
:D |
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| crypt0wind |
Payment sent!
Thanks, Peter |
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| pchw |
Payment sent earlier today.
Thanks!! |
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| korben69 |
Hi Peter,
Many thanks for your offer.
Payment sent this morning.
Have a nice day. |
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| Flecko |
Hi Peter,
I've payed the boards through paypal. Can you let me know when you've received the money ?
Thanks a lot.
Greetings Adrian |
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| hc167 |
| by the way, anyone know where to get the JFET for F3? I cannot find it in digikey. please let me know if you know the part number of it for digikey or you know I can get it from somewhere else. |
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| Peter Daniel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flecko
I've payed the boards through paypal. Can you let me know when you've received the money ?
|
Yes, it's been received, same for others. Ships tomorrow.
All orders received last night has been already shipped.
For Lovoltecs you need to contact GRollins. |
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| hc167 |
Peter:
Do you mean GRollins is offering GB for Lovoltecs ??? |
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| guglielmope |
I've sent the payment for 1 amp and 1 psu board.
Thanks
Guglielmo |
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| ipolyakov |
Peter,
I have sent you my payment for one amp board.
Thank you very much for this great offer.
Igor |
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| Maousse |
Hi Peter,
Payment sent
Thanks for the great job. |
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| kraljmatjaz |
Hi Peter,
just sent you money for two stereo sets.
You'done a great work with these boards.
Thanks a lot,
Boris
P.S.: for all the european F3 builders, what do you think about joining forces to get that rare Lovoltech JFet's? or maybe have you found a source? |
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| korben69 |
Hi kraljmatjaz,
I agree with you, LU1014D are very difficult to obtain nowadays.
I've mailed Steenoe but he's out of stock too...
One good way is to group us, and place an order to Grey Rollins.
He'll deliver quantities >100 units for Europe.
Who's intersted ?
I'm in for 12 units, just 88 missing... |
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| kraljmatjaz |
Do you know how much do they cost?
I would buy 10. |
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| korben69 |
Everything is explained here, posted by Grey ROLLINS (Mr AX :) ) :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...&threadid=71633
Grey says he won't assume shipping to Europe, dhole will.
As we are told in the latest post, only matched PJFets are still available, little bit more expensive than unmatched.
1° - We have to know how many are interested.
2° - We must order min 100 pieces.
3° - Pay Grey and be delivered take some delay.
4° - Obtain DIYer's payment for PJFet and Shipping
5° - Prepare shipping for European DIYer's after payment.
I must be wrong because of my bad English, just tell me. |
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| JEKYLL |
Hello Peter,
I sent you money for two stereo sets.
Thank you very much, the boards are beautiful. |
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| Peter Daniel |
| All payments have been received and the boards ship today. |
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| Peter Daniel |
The new PS board will accomodate caps up to 50mm in diameter and screw mount type. If you can find suitable values in that size (like 15,000/50 or bigger) a simple assembly as pictured should be sufficient for one channel.
That board can also be used with F4 amp and here, 22,000/40 Sikorels are more than enough. |
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| Pathmark |
Hi Peter,
Paypal payment has been sent for 2 stereo boards and 2 psu boards.
Thanks again,
Pathmark |
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| DUC985 |
Peter,
paypal for 1 x amp board and 2 x PSU
thx for the perfect work
Mathias |
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