| aviv007 |
Hello,
I'm interesting to start a new project -clone of Omega Super 3. Did someone here tried to build this speaker ?
I need all the information i can get,especially about the internal of the cabinet (scheme and damping)...
Regards
Aviv |
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| planet10 |
That os pretty close in shape to Mileva... but Mileva actually uses the height of the cabinet to its advantage instead of just being a bass reflex... i am close to publishing final plans but i could send you the draft ones.
Chris has a pair in his TV/HT room. They work well.
dave |
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| aviv007 |
Thank you for the response. I saw already this project ,but i'm trying to stay as close to the original one...
Maybe you know ,if the super 3 use the same instruction in the inside of the cabin ?!.... |
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| Godzilla |
I'm not sure anyone really knows but i think the Super is basically the same DBR eclosure as the recommended box by Fostex with the opening on the back.
Just a guess. |
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| Scottmoose |
| AFAIK it's just a basic MLTL, with a sand-filled lower chamber. Nothing fancy. All the external dimensions are given on Omega's site, so guesstimating the rest is easy enough. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Godzilla
I'm not sure anyone really knows but i think the Super is basically the same DBR eclosure as the recommended box by Fostex with the opening on the back.
Just a guess. |
what the DIY community really needs is a portable ultrasonic scanner - then all the guessing would be over
perhaps CTU has one to spare :smash:
Seriously, though I think Louis would suggest (as would Ed Schilling) that there's more inside their boxes than you might think you can "intuitively reverse engineer"
I can confirm that Dave's Mileva design works well, and is a much easier build than a BLH (it also has higher WAF) - a direct comparison to the Frugelhorn will probably take a few days to set up. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
That os pretty close in shape to Mileva... but Mileva actually uses the height of the cabinet to its advantage instead of just being a bass reflex... i am close to publishing final plans but i could send you the draft ones.
Chris has a pair in his TV/HT room. They work well.
dave |
on or off topic..........is that beauty named after M. Maric? |
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| aviv007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Godzilla
I'm not sure anyone really knows but i think the Super is basically the same DBR eclosure as the recommended box by Fostex with the opening on the back.
Just a guess. |
Maybe, you have a link for this one ? |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
on or off topic..........is that beauty named after M. Maric? |
Actually that's a complete fluke - I had to do a quick google on the name myself, after Dave said "that sounds rather Russian" I guess he was geographically close enough.
It actually came about as a sort of acronym - the cabinet is a (folded) Ma$$ Loaded Voigt Pipe - it could have just have easily received a more literal set of vowels (malovo) but that didn't sound quite as poetic. Since the first pair I built were for my wife, the feminine just sounded right.
Now, back to the regularly scheduled program ...... |
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| Godzilla |
http://www.fostexinternational.com/...27e_enclrev.pdf
Outside dims are similar and can be modified to be the same as the Omega box as long as you keep the inside volume of the two chambers the same as the recommended box.
So, not the same as the Omega but similar and probably also excellent.
Peace,
Godzilla
PS. Avi, do you take krav mega? I have been doing it the past two years. It makes you into an animal. I love it! |
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| aviv007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Seriously, though I think Louis would suggest (as would Ed Schilling) that there's more inside their boxes than you might think you can "intuitively reverse engineer" set up. |
According to some articles, the damping materials is the big "glamor" that make the fostex driver to be more delightful... |
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| aviv007 |
Thanks Godzilla,This is what i had in my mind too....
My plan is to use a 19 mm of mdf for the cabin, with a bitumen sheets +acoustic foam and dacron stuffing for the inside. The sizes will be the same as the super 3.
I will use a 2 inch diameter for the back port,but i'm not really sure what should be the length.... ?:(
P.S: ....according to your nick name, I think the "krav-maga" is just an excuse...;) |
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| vinylkid58 |
aviv,
Read thru the fx120/fe120 TQWT thread, I believe somewhere in the text he talks about the DBR box. I don't have time right now to search for the page:
link
Jeff |
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| Scottmoose |
OK, given the panels are a mix of different material, I'd expect them to be ~1in thick. The external dimensions are given on the Omega site as being 27in x 11in x 7.5in (HxWxD). It also suggests that there is a separate sand-filled compartment in the base for stability.
Looking at the pictures, and taking some eyeball measurements from the port, driver & binding post positions, that gives me these internal dimensions:
21in x 9in x 5.5in (HxWxD). Zdriver 4.5in. Zport 19.5in. Vent = 2in dameter, 2in long. Stuff 0.25lbs ft^3 of hollow-fibre damping to 2in below the driver, or line the rear wall, top and one side-wall to the same position. I've gone for max-flat tuning here. Increase port length to roll it off slightly in the LF. I don't know for certain, but that's likely what the XRS is, roughly.
BTW -like the new avatar Dave -reminds me of Yes album covers. |
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| Godzilla |
There is a horrid spike between 300 and 400!
Scott, Its odd to see such flat charts after looking at so many BIB charts. |
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| Scottmoose |
| My apologies -consequence of our old friend driver position. ;) It won't be this flat in-room of course... :D |
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| aviv007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
It also suggests that there is a separate sand-filled compartment in the base for stability.
. |
Excellent,Scottmoose...The F.R looks amazing !
I just wonder, how it will going to look like without the separate compartment ,as i haven't saw a mention for this on the omega site until now...?! |
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| Scottmoose |
Indeed.
Reference to the sand (or whatever) filled chamber you'll find in the text -see the 'mass-loaded' bit? |
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| ronc |
what the DIY community really needs is a portable ultrasonic scanner - then all the guessing would be over
Thats my job. However in this app a scaled x-ray would be better.
Wood or the like density/elastic properties dosent respond well to ultrasonic testing,especially dry wood.
Example! at a Loggers Jubile (sp) the tree section is measured for diameter then all test sections are x-rayed at the same Kv and Ma on the same speed film at the same focal distance for the same time. The density(darkness) of the x-rayed section is measured on all test sections and they have to fall within a given range. This ,more or less, establishes the same density of the wood so no ax chopper has an advantage over another.
ron |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronc
what the DIY community really needs is a portable ultrasonic scanner - then all the guessing would be over
Thats my job. However in this app a scaled x-ray would be better.
Wood or the like density/elastic properties dosent respond well to ultrasonic testing,especially dry wood.
Example! at a Loggers Jubile (sp) the tree section is measured for diameter then all test sections are x-rayed at the same Kv and Ma on the same speed film at the same focal distance for the same time. The density(darkness) of the x-rayed section is measured on all test sections and they have to fall within a given range. This ,more or less, establishes the same density of the wood so no ax chopper has an advantage over another.
ron |
well thanks Ron, I should have known you'd have the technical solution
funny how the memory works - your above description flashed up my ole way-back machine to "Woodchopper's Ball" by Ten Years After - I'm tapping my feet and playing air guitar while typing this! |
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| vinylkid58 |
| quote: | | funny how the memory works - your above description flashed up my ole way-back machine to "Woodchopper's Ball" by Ten Years After - I'm tapping my feet and playing air guitar while typing this! |
How about "Skoobly-Oobly-Doobob" from the LP Stonedhenge.:D
Jeff |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by vinylkid58
How about "Skoobly-Oobly-Doobob" from the LP Stonedhenge.:D
Jeff |
sorry Jeff, I was definitely "in attendance" for the latter part of the 60's and early 70's, so I don't clearly remember it all - but can make it up as I go - who's gonna prove me wrong? :cannotbe: |
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| ronc |
should have known you'd have the technical solution
its where i live.
ron |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronc
should have known you'd have the technical solution
its where i live.
ron |
without the yin & yang, this DIY thing could get kinda boring? |
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| distortion |
| see this :devilr: |
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| Scottmoose |
| I see a fine render of a DBR, but would appreciate more detail. Is this something of your design, or is this in fact the internal layout of the Omega? Looks good, whatever it is. |
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| distortion |
is the origina dbr fostex revised for the omega 3 external size
is still in work |
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| gmilitano |
Looks good. Keep up posted on your progress.
Cheers,
Gio. |
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| aviv007 |
distortion,
This is looks very good !
Is there a reason why you didn't use a 2 inch broaden port as the original use ?
How you are going to damp the cabin ?
Anyway-good luck ! :cool: |
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| distortion |
because the port is tuned to 53hz
i think for damping to use soft wool laminate and polystirene
for sunday next step |
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| alexg |
| quote: | Originally posted by distortion
see dimension |
Are those dimension (the width and depth) external dimension or internal? If external, what thickness are the cabinet walls?
Thanks. |
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| distortion |
the thickness of cabinet walls is 15mm
no progress, rain outside and wood working does not possible.
in the paint shop draw you can see external and internal dimension of cabinet.
for mass charger you can use marble for better response.
i have used 3.5Kg each of cement. |
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| distortion |
the sound comparated to my AN-K is quite amazing.
bass are best, same pressure level, quite a little bit scene.
for the $ spent the result is amazing!
in the photos sound with a Kiss DVD player mods and T-amp tweaked
also i have tried with musical fidelity Elektra E60 mods and Naim Nait2 |
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| Scottmoose |
Good work.
Can't say I'm surprised you find it better than the AN-K to be honest. I've yet to hear an AN speakers (or the Snells they were based on for that matter) that I thought was up to much. The 127 is a great little driver. |
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| gmilitano |
Very nice.
Did you play around with any damping or stuffing inside the box? |
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| distortion |
the sound is more fun respect my AN-K, hi freq is also quite present, bass is not solid but more extended and vibrating. is a fun loudspeaker for me, not the best :-)
the material using for damping freq is foam all around internal space height is 0.4 cm.
run well with rock, raggae and fusion, tv and dvds.
bad for classic
magic for the voice |
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| Nanook |
First, with such good designs at many sites on the 'net, why bother copying an existing commercial design?
Second, what amplification, cables, etc., are you using?
All have a profound effect on systems. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nanook
First, with such good designs at many sites on the 'net, why bother copying an existing commercial design? |
Particularly when some of the "clone" projects are based on estimated reverse engineering of what those enclosures might entail, while many of the open source DIY designs are very well documented - one might even say from the wide acclaim that some have achieved from listeners (other than builders) that they are "proven"
Also don't forget that while the make and model of drivers used in commercial products might be identified, they are often customized either by the OEM maker or speaker builder to suit specific design parameters . These custom drivers are generally not available to the DIYer (at realistic prices)
| quote: |
Second, what amplification, cables, etc., are you using?
All have a profound effect on systems. |
the final word of the above sentence is very important |
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| gmilitano |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nanook
First, with such good designs at many sites on the 'net, why bother copying an existing commercial design?
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The Omega Super 3 looks to me like a "clone" of the Fostex recommended enclosure for the FE127E. |
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| Nanook |
| is operative. Unless someone actually knows, then everyone here is guessing. I tore apart a pair of ProAc Response 1s to have a look. If those drivers are/were available in exactly the same configuration and spec as to ProAc, then I guess I could "clone" fairly accurately. But as chris suggests, the drivers may be modified or altered by the manufacturer for that OEM. |
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| gmilitano |
I think you are getting hung up on the title of the thread because it contains the word clone in it.
To me, this is a DBR enclosure that uses the FE127E driver. If you look at the dimensions on his enclosure plan
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...tamp=1177860855
you will see they are very similar to the Fostex recommended enclosure
http://www.fostexinternational.com/...27e_enclrev.pdf
His approach on this project has been no different than what most of us typically do here. Model the enclosure, build, slap in a fullrange driver, listen and tweak. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by gmilitano
I think you are getting hung up on the title of the thread because it contains the word clone in it. |
Fair enough, I guess I just take the use of the word "clone" a bit more literally than "DIY fun project inspired by..." Anyone who's aware of a certain history behind the development of the original Frugalhorn project will know exactly what that means.
Furthermore, there are some enterprising individuals with websites devoted to thorough forensic research and analysis &/or second guessing behind high end commercial designs, and the step by step "reproduction" of same. AFAIC, that can give us DIY addicts a bad rep
I think Louis, Ed and Mr Wilson would have some choice words on the subject (actually, I know Ed would)
we've all done that, and as the increasing number of happy "Spawn" and Planet10* design builders will relate, the results can be quite satisfying to say the least. If these same designs were mainstream commercial products with attendant distribution networks and multi-level profit structure, probably few of us could afford them.
*moderators - disclosure required by writer? |
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| gmilitano |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Furthermore, there are some enterprising individuals with websites devoted to thorough forensic research and analysis &/or second guessing behind high end commercial designs, and the step by step "reproduction" of same. AFAIC, that can give us DIY addicts a bad rep
I think Louis, Ed and Mr Wilson would have some choice words on the subject (actually, I know Ed would)
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Well, I don't see a problem with someone reproducing something for their personal use. Surely it would not be a problem if you went into a home decorating show and painted a room in your home the same way some interior designer was showing off a room. I can see where a designer would be upset if their designs were reproduced are marketed. However, I don't get the impression distortion is planning to market this speaker, which is not a clone or a reverse engineered design. And besides, the Super 3 is a DBR enclsoure which has dimensions very similar to the Fostex recommended enclosure with the port moved to the rear. Of course Fostex does not mind, they are in the driver business
As for DIY Addicts getting a bad rep, it seems to me that there are far more commercial ventures that are profiting from DIY tools and ideas rather than DIY Addicts profiting from commercial designs. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by gmilitano
Well, I don't see a problem with someone reproducing something for their personal use. Surely it would not be a problem if you went into a home decorating show and painted a room in your home the same way some interior designer was showing off a room. I can see where a designer would be upset if their designs were reproduced are marketed. However, I don't get the impression distortion is planning to market this speaker, which is not a clone or a reverse engineered design. And besides, the Super 3 is a DBR enclosure which has dimensions very similar to the Fostex recommended enclosure with the port moved to the rear. Of course Fostex does not mind, they are in the driver business
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Hey, I don't want to beat this one to death, but a couple of further points.
Since the Omega Super3 design was the point of this thread, I think that without revealing all the details, the designer (Louis) would aver to differences between his enclosure(s) and the Fostex recommended box, not least of which is damping techniques / materials.
Of course Fostex is pleased their drivers are used by OEM builders such as Louis (although he's recently switched at least in part to hemp based drivers), Ed at Hornshoppe and numerous others. AFAIK, the only speaker enclosures they(Fostex) manufacture are the studio monitor series, which probably few of us have heard, and for their own good reasons, likely sound much different than most Fostex based DIY projects.
I was referring to those enterprising DIYers who specifically set out, and fully document their attempts to replicate commercial designs in both form and function. Some may come very close, and of course to many of the very large or high end companies whose clientele would never be aware of the DIY phenomenon, that wouldn't constitute any type of threat.
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As for DIY Addicts getting a bad rep, it seems to me that there are far more commercial ventures that are profiting from DIY tools and ideas rather than DIY Addicts profiting from commercial designs. |
In terms of smaller manufacturers, that could well be, but try to get them to admit that, other than by pulling products off a website when caught. "No, it's our own design, would you like to see the carbon dated plans? They're in the back room somewhere" |
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| distortion |
my chain:
mechanics Musical Fidelity E60 (BB opa ouput for alternative test listening, masterclock GTent, silver foil capacitor on ouput.
reference dac Wadia Digimaster X32
Naim Nait 2 amp
Naca 5 cable
Gainclone LM3875, 200VA and psu snub
CAT5 cable
Piano 1 TNT cable for interconnect
Optical wired MF60 and Wadia
AN-K
JPW P1
My interest is not clone the omega 3, but modding the project dbr Fostex for resulting a better sound
i have allready make others enclosure, this one is better for equilibrium and sound, low compression and transparence. |
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| gmilitano |
| quote: | Originally posted by distortion
My interest is not clone the omega 3, but modding the project dbr Fostex for resulting a better sound
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We didn't think so. But words like "cloning" and "stem cell research" seem to excite people these days.
Cheers,
Gio |
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