| enzedone |
Any opion about these?
I found them here,
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/
I was thinking maybe they would sound nice in a large lounge like mine. And If I'm going to spend money and pay hideous amounts of postage, may as well go for the big mothers.......;)
Your comment would be appreciated. |
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| Scottmoose |
| They look decent enough, although with such a high Vas, they're going to need a hefty sized cabinet. Worth looking into, as they certainly appear to be both well build and engineered. I'd be adding tweeters to them though -no way is a cone of that size going to do 20KHz. Even assuming it can get up there, it's not going to do it with much grace. View them as big WR drivers and you're about there. |
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| MisterTwister |
maybe i'll buy these speakers one day and put them in an open baffle, very close to the floor, wide and tall baffle would be way too ugly.
also i would have to get 10 band (at least :) ) parametric equalizer or use pc software equalizer. response curve is too rugged. |
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| chrisb |
Scott, you might want to take another look at the rather low quality pictures on the Commonsense website. The stamped basket/frame, particularly the mounting flange looks a little lightweight to me for a "full range 12" - without some damping treatment, I'd be wary of ringing.
Of course, at $200 per pair, there isn't an overabundance of FR 12" from which to choose.
Perhaps it would be worth pursuing the option of cast frames as available on their Super 8" ( for only $30 pr more)
As for the "ragged" response graph, for those still pursuing the holy grail of "smooth as silk" graphs, I'd tend to wait until the drivers were fully broken in ( 200-300 hrs of tender abuse) before making any rash decisions about polluting the signal path with any more elaborate than wide band correction.
Even better, some of the current work by Mamboni, Bud P, or others engaged in cone treatment techniques could mitigate issues beyond just a bumpy ride on the test rig, mechanically rather than electronically. |
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| enzedone |
This will be a one shot deal for me. I don't live in Europe or the US where your dollar has so much buying power. I can't afford to buy something, get it down here & then find out it is cheap rubbish. And then turn around and just go buy another pair.
I was thinking about putting a super tweater with them, what ever FR I end up with. These ones seem quite nice:
http://www.lcy.com.hk/diyhp/25114/enus/home.html
I don't want to blow money on a smaller FR say around 4-6, or maybe even 8in. And then realise they just don't give out a nice sound.
question; Will a smaller speaker have a narrower (hmmmmmmm,how do I put this) listening range. I mean will a smaller speaker have a very small sweet spot. As apposed to a larger driver, so I want have to worry about standing on my head 3.23mtrs from them naked or something;) to be happy with the sound.
I have been reading a bit on here about FR's, but it's very hard to make a decision. especially when it could turn out to be a very expensive mistake.
Those hemp ones seem quite nice as well.......Maybe i should just stick to the 8in. Theres seems to be more options available to me.
:(
PS $200US would be about $500 by the time I landed them here, with the huge postage costs. |
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| enzedone |
| Here I am talking about speakers and I haven't even finished my TT yet...........................Man if the Misses new I was thinking about another project she would castrate me....:D |
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| Scottmoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Scott, you might want to take another look at the rather low quality pictures on the Commonsense website. The stamped basket/frame, particularly the mounting flange looks a little lightweight to me for a "full range 12" - without some damping treatment, I'd be wary of ringing.
As for the "ragged" response graph, for those still pursuing the holy grail of "smooth as silk" graphs, I'd tend to wait until the drivers were fully broken in ( 200-300 hrs of tender abuse) before making any rash decisions about polluting the signal path with any more elaborate than wide band correction.
Even better, some of the current work by Mamboni, Bud P, or others engaged in cone treatment techniques could mitigate issues beyond just a bumpy ride on the test rig, mechanically rather than electronically. |
Chris, good point about the construction. I took another look at those pictures, & I reckon you're right -they're going to need some basket / magnet damping. FE208ESigma construction quality they are not. Lot of driver for the money though. The cast basket etc would be interesting, if they ever did one.
Re the response, looking at the graphs, they drop off like a stone at 15KHz, so they're going to need a supertweeter up there, capped off probably about 10KHz as we'd do with the big Fostex Sigma unit, which is why I mentioned it. |
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| Pit Hinder |
Hi enzedone,
it's the other way round - large speakers "beam" more than smaller ones. Now I don't know how large your large lounge is, and how sharp your lady's castrating knife...but if Fostex drivers 8" and smaller are available in NZ, Scott and his fearless gang of loonies will have plans to fulfil your needs, fear thee not.
:drink: Pit |
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| MisterTwister |
what do you mean "beam" . is it raise in frequency response or distortion or something else? my fostex 127 sound may be described as beamed, but only at high volumes, I am pretty sure it is a distortion.
shouldn't larger diameter speaker distort less if played at same volume as smaller speaker? |
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| Scottmoose |
| It's not distortion -it's high frequency directionality. As frequency increases, so the sweet-spot narrows to a very tight angle / area. Tends to increase with driver-size. |
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| Cal Weldon |
MT,
Beaming is just a term to describe how the sound is dispersed through the room. The term beaming means the "sweet spot" will be limited as the driver is focusing it's energy perpendicular to the cone and not spreading it around well. The size of the cone and the frequency determine at what point this is likely to be a concern.
EDIT: Scott posted as I was typing. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| I think the diffuser shown in the link will work for an up firing driver but if placed in front of the cone on a vertical driver would tend to act as a mask. I have wondered about using that sort of thing with radial slots in it allowing some to pass through the diffuser and some to be directed around. Not sure if it has merit though. |
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| enzedone |
So..........
If i read this right, as the size of the driver increases, the sweet spot narrows.
So a good balance would be the 8in after all. Which I thought would be too small...............
So if I did go with the 12inch, I would definately have to be naked,upside down........;)
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| Scottmoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
EDIT: Scott posted as I was typing. |
Yours was better mate. ;)
Yes, you're about right -as cone size increases, so the HF sweet-spot tends to narrow. This isn't automatically the case, as some small FR drivers beam something chronic, but it's a good ROT, and it's generally applicable. Of course, whatever you go with, Fostex, AN, anything else, we'll all be here to help you decide on an enclosure. :devilr:
FWIW, if you're planning on adding a supertweeter, & like the idea of a big cone, then I still reckon the 12in driver has potential, providing the basket is damped. It's certainly a lot of driver for the money.
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| enzedone |
I don't think I've ever seen a design on here for a rear loaded horn. (12inch)
The company that sells those drivers gives you a free design for the enclosure, but it's sealed/base reflex. I've heard a lot about FR's being better off in a horn than a sealed box. But I guess that all comes down to the characteristics of the driver and the listeners own personal tastes.
Mind you, with my limited tools, it would make more sense to go with the sealed box as the more complicated horn.
Food for thought......... |
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| Scottmoose |
| Yes, well... The CSA cabinets are ported boxes. Nor are they up to much. Rubbish response. Nothing wrong per-se with a good vented enclosure, but I wouldn't class these amongst them. If you wanted a simple box we can do better than those very easily. |
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| enzedone |
Thanks for the advise. I will keep you in mind when I get the miss's around to my way of thinking and accept the fact that i'm just absolutely,positively completely in need of another set of speakers........................:D
I would love to here from someone who has actually purchased a set of these or even made a set of 12in FR's.
Scottmoose if it takes me six months to get them do you mind if I email you if i need some advice on these? |
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| Scottmoose |
| Not at all. Give me a shout as & when. There are loads of people here who can help too. |
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| Nihilist |
Enzedone said ".....or even made a set of 12in FR's."
I have made some OB cabinets with Calrad CR12-A drivers. They aren't made anymore, but they can be found on Ebay now and then. (That's where I got mine).
Look here to check them out........
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1077
I'm pretty happy with them. Seems that the OB style cabinet plays hell with recordings, leaving nowhere for poorly mixed music to hide. Some recordings are great, some sound like trash.
The Calrads are pretty smooth and full. You might want a tweeter crossed in up high , I would like a lil more treble myself, but have dedicated myself to a single driver setup , no tweets for me !
.............Blake |
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| Scottmoose |
I'd be wary until I saw an FR graph. Most response graphs presented by manufacturers should be taken with about a ton of salt, as you can bet they've been smoothed, but at least they give a rough indication what to expect.
Might do well on a baffle though. |
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| dmason |
I would be willing to bet the AN 12 might be pretty sweet run nice n easy, on an open baffle. If I read those woefully reproduced spex, the Qts=.58 which lands it squarely into that territory. With the big diameter you get a bigger sound, and if you have to supplement with some little tweetster, so what? It has a ~decent Xmax of almost 2mm, and if you had a PCI card with PEQ, you could do well to add some gravitas. Well tweaked contouring can make more difference than what speaker, what amp, what source, often.
I never thought I would say that about anything coming from THAT website, but hey, science requires an open mind.:clown:
Now if we could have something like that in HempTone flavor... |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by enzedone my fostex 127 sound may be described as beamed, but only at high volumes, I am pretty sure it is a distortion.
shouldn't larger diameter speaker distort less if played at same volume as smaller speaker? |
Yes a larger driver will tend to be able to play louder before it gives up... this a function of how much air they can shift as you turn the wick up...
The stock FE127 has some rough edges particularily as the voulme increase that are dramatically mitigated with the appropriate treatment. With some small expenditure on damar & puzzlecoat, wool-felt, duct-seal and.or something like SR-2000 (latex paint-on damping for the boat-building industry -- i haven't talked about this for modding yet, but we are very happy with our research0 and a little TLC on your 127s you'll be able to get a lot more out of them than you are... And an enclosure like Harvey would maximize the dynamic capabilities at higher volumes. I'd be very surprised if any 8, 10, or 12" (of reasonable price -- let's use your $500) has any chance of doing mids & tops as well as the modded FE127.
dave |
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| ChrisMmm |
| quote: | Originally posted by enzedone
This will be a one shot deal for me. I don't live in Europe or the US where your dollar has so much buying power. I can't afford to buy something, get it down here & then find out it is cheap rubbish. And then turn around and just go buy another pair...
PS $200US would be about $500 by the time I landed them here, with the huge postage costs. |
Well with the NZ$ an all time high against the US$ now is the time to buy!
If you really want to play safe I would very strongly recomend a Fostex FE168EZ in BIB cab. I am getting bass out of these beauties that I prefer to my IB mounted Adire Shiva subs. But its all around what you want from a speaker. If bass is the be all and end all then maybe the Fostex 8" drivers are a better bet.
As for a "one shot deal" - I honestly don't see that as being in the nature of DIY audio ;-)
Good luck,
Chris |
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| tinitus |
| At some time I thought about a 2.5way with double AN 12 and a ribbon - although with very high sensitivity and expectations of good bass, its not cheap any more and a quite different game |
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| ChrisMmm |
Happened again, back out and refersh after a post and it gets reposted - sorry!
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| JandG |
I also run Calrad 12AE in OB & have for quite a while now. D. Mason also runs the Calrad 12 A in OB. At least did the last time I talked with him. It really is a good OB driver & for the money I dought it can be beat for a true FR driver. I run nothing with mine & is in a 2nd & or 3rd system driver by a fine tube amp & tube tuner for source mostly. I think I have 60.00 in my pair..1 was NOS
They also revived my intrest in Alnico drivers & have since went all alnico in all my OB systems, & all have Coral OEM FR drivers, PIM -8L etc.... |
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| panomaniac |
Then of course there is the good old Emeinence Beta-12LTA. About $60 each here in the USA. Don't know how much south of the eqautor, if you can buy them down there.
Tons of dynamics, good tonal structure. Needs a tweeter above ~7K.
Reconed, it is used in the famous Hammer Dynamic
FWIW |
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