| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by JesseG
Greg's linestage sounded superb. Can't blame him for wanting to capture the moment...
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is that "HH Scott something" cleaned amp besides preamp? |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by JesseG
and with the grilles on - very high WAF here...
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until Sue gets back from Bermuda, and her speakers are gone :cannotbe: |
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| JesseG |
Now, some pictures of the Raffle...
(Kevin is engaged in his favorite activity)
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| JesseG |
Scott posing with Ruth (lucky guy) having won a fabulous prize.
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| JesseG |
Cal draws the next luck winner...
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| JesseG |
Doug wins, while his beautiful wife Susan waits her turn patiently and thinks (I hope I don't win that yucky t-shirt).
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by JesseG
driving the Dimitris (the Mileva, scaled up for 167's) This system sounded awsome! |
Demetri... the real target driver is the 207 (only requires a change in the port length) but we haven't girded ourselves to do the XO yet.
dave |
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| JesseG |
Sure enough, she wins - guess what?
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| JesseG |
the T-Shirt!
(It certainly looks better on her that it would on Dave!)
That's it for now - I'll post a few more after lunch
Jess |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
is that "HH Scott something" cleaned amp besides preamp? |
One of two Scotts, yes ( LK48 or 222) - took almost longer to strip out the parts and wiring than to rebuild.
The circuit is essentially the topology of Eli Duttman / Jim McShane's delightful and very flexible "El Cheapo" design*- with several changes of course to take advantage of the tubed rectification and superior output iron native to the Scott chassis.
*CCS loaded12AT7 LTP driving EL84 class A P/P |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
is that "HH Scott something" cleaned amp besides preamp? |
LK48 used as donor. Push-pull EL84s strapped in triode running Class A (cathode bias). Front end is based on El-cheapo ECC81 LTP but with the diyAudio CCS. Power supply is dual mono after the 1st cap (ie splits to a choke for each channel). No feedback.
This 4W amp has the best bass (within its power limitations) of any amp i've heard recently. A real gem.
dave |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
LK48 used as donor. Push-pull EL84s strapped in triode running Class A (cathode bias). Front end is based on El-cheapo ECC81 LTP but with the diyAudio CCS. Power supply is dual mono after the 1st cap (ie splits to a choke for each channel). No feedback.
This 4W amp has the best bass (within its power limitations) of any amp i've heard recently. A real gem.
dave |
what Dave said - makes the Trends T-amp sound like a toy, and depending on the driver tubes ( vintage Mullards can be a bit soft, but Oh my, so seductive) can give a 2A3 or 300B SE a run for their money in the midrange as well
on the project list is a chassis rebuild for this piece elegant enough for some hand carved wood-work by Jesse's guy.
got a close up of the chip amp kicking around? |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
One of two Scotts, yes ( LK48 or 222) - took almost longer to strip out the parts and wiring than to rebuild.
The circuit is essentially the topology of Eli Duttman / Jim McShane's delightful and very flexible "El Cheapo" design*- with several changes of course to take advantage of the tubed rectification and superior output iron native to the Scott chassis.
*CCS loaded12AT7 LTP driving EL84 class A P/P |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
LK48 used as donor. Push-pull EL84s strapped in triode running Class A (cathode bias). Front end is based on El-cheapo ECC81 LTP but with the diyAudio CCS. Power supply is dual mono after the 1st cap (ie splits to a choke for each channel). No feedback.
This 4W amp has the best bass (within its power limitations) of any amp i've heard recently. A real gem.
dave |
bummer.........received ystrdy one "scott something" astonishingly similar......... :bawling: with just one OPT ....... |
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| Cal Weldon |
| Is there a shot of that big hunk of sheet metal on the stump for Zen Mod to see? |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
Is there a shot of that big hunk of sheet metal on the stump for Zen Mod to see? |
naah........ nobody likes me........ I bet that even Geek forgot to drink one for me ...:bawling:
besides- on these pictures - where the squawkers and squeeks are?
:bawling: |
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| JesseG |
| quote: | | Is there a shot of that big hunk of sheet metal on the stump for Zen Mod to see? |
Sorry Cal - I was so overwhelmed I forgot to take a picture :xeye:
Jess |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by JesseG
Sorry Cal - I was so overwhelmed I forgot to take a picture :xeye:
Jess |
gee, Dave has a camera, and my money's on the material still being on the premises |
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| JesseG |
Chris - I think that Cal is referring to that humungous Altec horn that he had sprouting from the stump downstairs. Cal took that away with him (much to Dave's relief).
Jess |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by JesseG
Chris - I think that Cal is referring to that humungous Altec horn that he had sprouting from the stump downstairs. Cal took that away with him (much to Dave's relief).
Jess |
oops |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Dave has a camera |
and took no pictures during the event (except for Hemp FR8s with the whizzer-ectomy)
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by JesseG
Chris - I think that Cal is referring to that humungous Altec horn that he had sprouting from the stump downstairs. Cal took that away with him (much to Dave's relief).
Jess |
Cal had left the other one at home and there were no drivers so it really was only a (beautiful) chunk of metal.
dave |
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| TerryO |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
LK48 used as donor. Push-pull EL84s strapped in triode running Class A (cathode bias). Front end is based on El-cheapo ECC81 LTP but with the diyAudio CCS. Power supply is dual mono after the 1st cap (ie splits to a choke for each channel). No feedback.
This 4W amp has the best bass (within its power limitations) of any amp i've heard recently. A real gem.
dave |
Dave,
I couldn't agree more. I've got an old Scott 299(a) that's stock and it's pretty nice, but every modified 222 I've ever heard has been superb. They knew how to wind 'em in those days and those small tubes can really make music.
Chris,
Don't you think it's time to make some cosmetic additions to your amp? It really is worthy of some nice case-work.
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
there were no drivers so it really was only a (beautiful) chunk of metal. |
That's why I was hoping there was a picture for Zen Mod. He likes big hunks if metal too.
Still no drivers as of Tues aft. Wonder where they are? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
Wonder where they are? |
Let's hope not eaten by snakes.
dave |
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| germpod |
| Earlier there was a question on the sound of the Visaton b200's compared to the Hemp 8's, and the Visaton was legues better, it was not even close. |
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| EdwardWest |
| quote: | Originally posted by germpod
Earlier there was a question on the sound of the Visaton b200's compared to the Hemp 8's, and the Visaton was legues better, it was not even close. |
Thanks... Any other opinions on this?
Edward |
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| Kevin Haskins |
| quote: | Originally posted by EdwardWest
Thanks... Any other opinions on this?
Edward |
The Canadian Dark was better than amber. |
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| leadbelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by EdwardWest
Thanks... Any other opinions on this?
Edward |
That's my opinion too, and shared by the people I spoke to. Although Stu said he was happy with the Hemp's in question, which were his, in the box he has them in. |
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| Kevin Haskins |
The 4" Hemps sounded really good.... the larger ones where put on out of phase at one point and sounded.... out of phase.
I didn't listen to them a lot after the phase was fixed but the B200s sounded really good. So did that Korean driver. All of them needed a sub in my opinion. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by leadbelly
Although Stu said he was happy with the Hemp's in question, which were his, in the box he has them in. |
It will be interesting to see how he likes them now that i've renovated them.
dave |
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| chrisb |
| Well, they could have been slightly disadvantaged by the outdoor installation and relatively low power - I think the most they were driven with was 15W of mini-aleph class A |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kevin Haskins
All of them needed a sub in my opinion. |
There were 2 powered subs upstairs... another variation left untrialed....
dave |
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| Kevin Haskins |
The 4" Hemps where not OBs though.... they where in a set of Scott's cabinets.
The 4" (108mm) Fostex with the cone that looked like you stepped on it sounded pretty good too. Especially with girlie music. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
It will be interesting to see how he likes them now that i've renovated them.
dave |
yes, with phase plugs and C-37 treatment, these could be very interesting.
Stu any feedback on that yet? - curious minds want to know - and for those of us who didn't get a chance to hear the discussion, in what type of enclosure will these find their home? |
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| Cal Weldon |
| I think Stew and Laura are on the road home still. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kevin Haskins
The 4" Hemps where not OBs though.... they where in a set of Scott's cabinets. |
The Honkens (Hemp + ONKEN) were Jeff's and the bipole metronome's were Jim Gale's (those last have me really wanting to do a Metronome -- maybe we have enuff scraps to redo the cardboard ones?
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
I think Stew and Laura are on the road home still. |
Assuming they got the axle fixed...
dave |
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| TerryO |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kevin Haskins
The 4" Hemps where not OBs though.... they where in a set of Scott's cabinets.
The 4" (108mm) Fostex with the cone that looked like you stepped on it sounded pretty good too. Especially with girlie music. |
Kevin,
Are you thinking of the 3 inch Fostex Sigma's in the double horn that played out on the deck? I remember that you and I both thought that it was absolutely stunning with female voices. I am at a loss as to what the Radio Shack equivalent would be however.;)
I'll take a look later this evening and see if I can find the model #.
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TerryO
Are you thinking of the 3 inch Fostex Sigma's in the double horn that played out on the deck? |
FE108eSigma in Aiko. Nominally a 4" the actual cone is 3:. Notorious for their stellar midrange.
dave |
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| Geek |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
It will be interesting to see how he likes them now that i've renovated them.
dave |
And here's the surgery in progress! :D
That was fascinating to watch. Skilled hands went at lightning speed!
OK folks, here's some more pics from Geek now that he's rested ;)
Speaking of the Hemp 8", here's the guys prepping the baffles:
Then we need some clean power for OB:
Jess had caught me taking a pic of my line buffer earlier. Here was the resulting shot:
Scientists are still pondering the mystery oil in those cables. Maybe we should run sub-power through them to check for combustibility :clown:
Another shot of Jess' equipment:
What'd you think? ..... Get your minds out of the gutter :rolleyes: :D
The Sigma's definately sounded as different as they looked ... in a good way:
Back inside, a proud papa shows off his latest babies:
15Lbs, 7 oz ...... for the crossover that is:
Sourced by a very interesting and cool device, the Squeeze Box:
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| doorman |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
FE108eSigma in Aiko. Nominally a 4" the actual cone is 3:. Notorious for their stellar midrange.
dave |
Yup, those are the ones, and they really do excell on vocals.
Don |
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| Nanook |
and Hemp 8 drivers: The Hemp 8s usually live in a "JE Labs" style OB which is modified slightly. I install a full width "shelf" (27" or so) and a rear brace on the back at floor level between the vertical uprights. Perry at Hemp has tried these too (see the Ventana on his DIY page) to good effect. They also sound excellent in a 20 litre BR tuned to 42 HZ. I'm gonna try the "Perkins" mod to BR enclosure (and on the 15 litre ones for my brother), to reduce the impedence rise at resonance. Remeber all that these are not suitable for an OB, Qts beinbg far to low...
T amps work good with the OBs as well as a Yamaha B2 amp, a Sansui DB8080, a Sansui Z9000, and the McCormach DNA 0.5 deLuxe.
The Decware works good with the FE167 mod/boxes (at least to me). Haven't listened to it much, car prob ()still). Tomorrow I shoot the MFr, and take a plane home if I can't get it resolved. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
bummer.........received ystrdy one "scott something" astonishingly similar......... :bawling: with just one OPT ....... |
now I take a look at poor critter ......... missing PT and one OPT ......
:bawling:
it's LK-72 |
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| Vix |
...Post #273...
Jesse, is that Visaton B200 with a ribbon tweeter (in the aperiodic box?) ?
How did they sound?
Regards,
Vix |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vix
is that Visaton B200 with a ribbon tweeter (in the aperiodic box?) ?
How did they sound? |
The stealth Sansuis.
For the intended purpose they were OK. And they out-did whatever lived in the box in its previous incarnation.
They were only played with Terry's 4870 amp. They sounded hard on the top, and the B200 really wanted a larger box (so bass was limited and a bit humpy in the mid-bass). IMHO the B200s with phase plugs in the OBs were quite a bit better. If i had those, all stealness aside, the boxes would be burnt and the B200 put into a more appropriate box -- and i'd likely find a new home for the tweeter or at least push the XO up high enuff that it didn't ruin the seemless mid/lower treble of the modded B200.
When we heard the 1st pair of B200s came thru here, many of us speculated about adding a ribbon. Once phase plugs had been installed those thots vanished. I've now heard 2 sets of B200s with ribbons... Once of those was literally ruined by the tweeter -- it was easily disconnected and things got way better (B200s had PP). I do believe that the Stealth Sansuis could have sounded way better with better integration of tweeter (or toss it and add plugs)
dave |
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| Vix |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
If i had those, all stealness aside, the boxes would be burnt ... |
:)
Thanks for info. Btw,mine are still in the boxes (MDF :smash: ), though they are larger (should be around 68 L). No tweeter, but they run via PLL correction circuit...
Still contemplating about OBs...with Eminence Beta 15s as bass support...but..WAF....
Vix |
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| leadbelly |
| So was I the *only* one who preferred the FF125 in the Frugal-Horn? Based on the people around me, I think I was.... |
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| EdwardWest |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
The stealth Sansuis.
[snip] They sounded hard on the top, and the B200 really wanted a larger box (so bass was limited and a bit humpy in the mid-bass). IMHO the B200s with phase plugs in the OBs were quite a bit better. If i had those, all stealness aside, the boxes would be burnt and the B200 put into a more appropriate box -- and i'd likely find a new home for the tweeter or at least push the XO up high enuff that it didn't ruin the seemless mid/lower treble of the modded B200.
dave |
Dave,
Thanks for the tremendious hospitality :)
Dick and I agree with your assessment 100%. The box was too small - hence the hump in the bass response. Also there is a 'spitty' character to the treble that Dick was not able to resolve in the available time. There is something amiss with the G2's that could not be resolved - Dick and I have used these exact tweeters in a few different systems and they did not exibit this hardness.
The 'stealth Sansuis' served their designed purpose extremely well, IMHO. They were made from materials on-hand, and were intended to generate curiousity and questions from the attendees.
We also wanted to show Terry that we were accomplishes 'Dumpster Diviors' too :D
Edward |
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| germpod |
"Well, they could have been slightly disadvantaged by the outdoor installation and relatively low power - I think the most they were driven with was 15W of mini-aleph class A"
The black amp pictured above is my gainclone amp, and it is 25watts and it was hooked up for a while. Only 10 watts different, but still a little more. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by germpod
"Well, they could have been slightly disadvantaged by the outdoor installation and relatively low power - I think the most they were driven with was 15W of mini-aleph class A"
The black amp pictured above is my gainclone amp, and it is 25watts and it was hooked up for a while. Only 10 watts different, but still a little more. |
fair enough - it's pretty obvious that way too many combinations of gear were plugged in during the event for everyone to hear them all.
For example, I didn't hear the larger Hemps at all, but did get extended opportunity to enjoy 2 different systems with the 4.5".
I think the consensus remains that in on this particular day, with the associated equipment, the Visatons outclassed the Hemps by a considerable margin. Having heard the former previously, that's not hard to believe. |
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| TerryO |
| quote: | Originally posted by EdwardWest
Dave,
Thanks for the tremendious hospitality :)
Dick and I agree with your assessment 100%. The box was too small - hence the hump in the bass response. Also there is a 'spitty' character to the treble that Dick was not able to resolve in the available time. There is something amiss with the G2's that could not be resolved - Dick and I have used these exact tweeters in a few different systems and they did not exibit this hardness.
The 'stealth Sansuis' served their designed purpose extremely well, IMHO. They were made from materials on-hand, and were intended to generate curiousity and questions from the attendees.
We also wanted to show Terry that we were accomplishes 'Dumpster Diviors' too :D
Edward |
Ed,
I don't know how much time you had to spend on them prior to showing up, but I know that most projects around here get 98% of the work done in the last 2% of the time available. My big speakers need some refinement as well, I'll probably be messing with them as well in the days to come.
As to the proof that you two are accomplished "Dumpster Diviors", I can only say that against all expectations, both of you have shown yourselves to have mastered the subtle nuances of
the art.
I will be meeting with the Grand Council in the near future, and will present a petition on your behalf for acceptance into the Old and Accepted Order of Dumpsteur Diviors. I am prepared to defend, with might if need be, your claim for acceptance into the Order. Hopefully, in the near future, I will be bringing you good tidings.
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TerryO
My big speakers need some refinement as well, I'll probably be messing with them as well in the days to come. |
Yes...
dave |
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| chrisb |
Terry, why not revisit the success you had with the RS 40-1197, and try fewer parts next time? :smash:
Some of the most musical sound at the festival was achieved with less than 10in^2 / 5 watts per channel. "Girly"? maybe, but some of us have simply accepted that. :angel: |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by leadbelly
So was I the *only* one who preferred the FF125 in the Frugal-Horn? Based on the people around me, I think I was.... |
Actually not entirely, my reaction to these going back to the initial break-in procedure several weeks back was that they did some things that I preferred to the FE126's, particularly in a real room.
In all the excitement over finally getting our hands on the Hemp 4.5", and the improvement derived from EnAbl treatment to FE127's, the 125 should not be overlooked.
It could be that with considered treatment and another enclosure design, this driver could be more than an also ran. I believe that some folks are quite pleased with the FF family in BIB or MLTL designs. I keep on threatening to try a pair of iBIBs with either the FE127 or FF125K, maybe by next year I'll actually get around to it!
For example, at least one event attendee is very happy with the performance of his Cain & Cain Abbeys after switching to the FF165K. |
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| Aengus |
chrisb said:
| quote: | | "Girly"? maybe, but some of us have simply accepted that. |
And others who overcompensate with crowbars?
Regards.
Aengus |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aengus
chrisb said:
And others who overcompensate with crowbars?
Regards.
Aengus |
I was referring to the music, but as for "compensation" I could ask about those inclined to "playing with fire" :rolleyes: |
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| vinylkid58 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
It could be that with considered treatment and another enclosure design, this driver could be more than an also ran. I believe that some folks are quite pleased with the FF family in BIB or MLTL designs. I keep on threatening to try a pair of iBIBs with either the FE127 or FF125K, maybe by next year I'll actually get around to it!
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The FF125K actually sims quite well in a ML-TQWT. It gets my vote for one of the prettiest Fostex drivers and would look lovely in a mini-Abbey clone.
Jeff |
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| planet10 |
The stock FF125 did have some assets over the stock FE126. In comparison the FF125 is going to seem lacking in the top compared to the 126 because of the peaks the 126 has. The modded 126 creamed them both, and if the EnABLEd 127 is any indication the same amount of improvement can be had over the modded 126. (research is under way to determine the right mix of anti-resonance treatment, vrs edge reflection treatment -- thanx go to Jim Gale for providing me with the last raw material i needed to carry forward that experiment)
dave |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by vinylkid58
The FF125K actually sims quite well in a ML-TQWT. It gets my vote for one of the prettiest Fostex drivers and would look lovely in a mini-Abbey clone.
Jeff |
Jeff, IINM Terry used the even more diminutive FF85K in the "desk-top" mini-monitor Noogi
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| vinylkid58 |
Aren't those Noogi's just the cutest little speakers. I wonder why he chose to call them Noogi, isn't a noogi the thing you do to some hapless person by putting them in a headlock and rubbing (vigorously) the top of their head with your knuckles?
Jeff |
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| TerryO |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
Terry, why not revisit the success you had with the RS 40-1197, and try fewer parts next time? :smash:
Some of the most musical sound at the festival was achieved with less than 10in^2 / 5 watts per channel. "Girly"? maybe, but some of us have simply accepted that. :angel: |
Chris,
As you know, I'm certainly not against full-range speakers. I do feel that many of the better sounding drivers can benefit from "help" at one or the other end of the spectrum. I've got my hands full right now, but I've got an idea for an extended range, hi-eff design. The trick will be finding a bass driver that will match up well (and I can afford). Don't give up on me, I've never really left;)
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by vinylkid58
Aren't those Noogi's just the cutest little speakers. I wonder why he chose to call them Noogi, isn't a noogi the thing you do to some hapless person by putting them in a headlock and rubbing (vigorously) the top of their head with your knuckles?
Jeff |
or in Cal's case, what's known as a PDA (public display of affection) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
diminutive FF85K |
Also the driver for the 1st cut of the microFonken (µFonken <- that might actually show up for some of you)
dave |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by TerryO
Chris,.......
The trick will be finding a bass driver that will match up well (and I can afford). Don't give up on me, I've never really left;)
Best Regards,
TerryO |
isn't it a variation of Hoffman's Iron Law (call it Olson's Golden Rule) that you can have any two of the following:
1) great performance on paper (required of course to satisfy your "expert friends")
2) seamless real world musical integration with associated components
3) affordable price |
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| germpod |
I know being in a room helped them a lot, but Terry's speakers got my vote for best sound that I heard. It also does not hurt that the only music that I like the style of the whole time I was there was played while listening to them. I am more of a rock guy than Jazz and female vocals person.
Frugel horns were hurt by being outside and only have the corners that extend a few feet and a floor to help them, in my long narrow room I think they would sound awsome. I am planning on building a pair as funds allow.
As far as the ff125 goes, I did not like the highs very much and it distorted female vocals at times while the fe127 drivers had no problems with them at all at the same volume level. For my ears, the fe127 drivers were far superior in the frugel horns. |
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| Geek |
Hi Terry,
| quote: | Originally posted by TerryO
I do feel that many of the better sounding drivers can benefit from "help" at one or the other end of the spectrum. |
I've got some woofies from Dave to boost the bottom of an '1197. Let's see what we can come up with for next year :)
I think you had your best pair yet with those biggies.
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
... µFonken ... |
I LOVE IT! :D |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geek
I think you had your best pair yet with those biggies. |
I thought they were his least successful... maybe it was just the rest of the system as a lot of the same thing could be heard with the mock-suis
dave |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aengus
And others who overcompensate with crowbars? |
Ya, wasn't that something? I thought we were going to lose Chris for a while there, what with him right under that overgrown lever that might have, shall we say, slipped if we weren't careful.
Man that was tempting. ;)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...887#post1267887 |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
or in Cal's case, what's known as a PDA (public display of affection) |
Did you receive your "I love you man" on the weekend? |
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| chrisb |
If you're pointing to the Mileva, this another deceptive little design - possibly expecting just a bit much at the bottom end from the FE127 - not so much a problem with FE167 with the same topology in the larger Demetri
After all my sniping at Terry, I guess it'd be contradictory to try a 207/FT17 combo (if the filter can be simplified to a single HP cap, does it still qualify as a "network") :scratch: |
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| TerryO |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
Ya, wasn't that something? I thought we were going to lose Chris for a while there, what with him right under that overgrown lever that might have, shall we say, slipped if we weren't careful.
Man that was tempting. ;)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...887#post1267887 |
Yeah, it looks like the guy in the green shirt is trying to push the lever down instead of up. ;)
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
Ya, wasn't that something? I thought we were going to lose Chris for a while there, what with him right under that overgrown lever that might have, shall we say, slipped if we weren't careful.
Man that was tempting. ;)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...887#post1267887 |
It's my middle name that starts with the 10th letter, besides Terry was there to take up the slack.
oh, on second thought, that could be a problem too - (see above post) |
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| TerryO |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
If you're pointing to the Mileva, this another deceptive little design - possibly expecting just a bit much at the bottom end from the FE127 - not so much a problem with FE167 with the same topology in the larger Demtri
After all my sniping at Terry, I guess it'd be contradictory to try a 207/FT17 combo (if the filter can be simplified to a single HP cap, does it still qualify as a "network") :scratch: |
Chris,
I think that it would be contradictory, however everyone there is more or less guided by an inner light, rather than ulterior motives or external influences. I fully expect that, in your heart of hearts, you have a longing to explore the possible, without undue restraints. Creativity is not possible if one waits for permission or universal consensus, but you knew that already.
:D
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| Geek |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
I thought they were his least successful... maybe it was just the rest of the system as a lot of the same thing could be heard with the mock-suis
dave |
Maybe I'll stick to being a tube geek and leave the speaker listening to you :D |
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| dickmorgan22 |
"Dave,
Thanks for the tremendious hospitality
Dick and I agree with your assessment 100%. The box was too small - hence the hump in the bass response. Also there is a 'spitty' character to the treble that Dick was not able to resolve in the available time. There is something amiss with the G2's that could not be resolved - Dick and I have used these exact tweeters in a few different systems and they did not exibit this hardness.
The 'stealth Sansuis' served their designed purpose extremely well, IMHO. They were made from materials on-hand, and were intended to generate curiousity and questions from the attendees.
We also wanted to show Terry that we were accomplishes 'Dumpster Diviors' too
Edward"
Edward is correct. These were a bit of a joke, one which Dave guessed pretty much instantly. These drivers are under eval by me in an open baffle configuration, but with an actively crossed 15" up to 200 Hz. I had a crossover in that environment which sounded pretty good (18" proper baffle), but in that box, it was a scratch build, just for this event. It was not right, but we thought we should bring them anyway. My wife's placemats stuffed in the ports should have been the first clue about the bass tuning....it was a disaster in that box. All in good fun.
Given the fast company at this event, I believe I will have another go at this next year, with another reclamation/stealth design. Who knows, maybe Terry will arrange for a campaign medal. Given this experience, I will probably start on it when I get back home. The water skiing is too good in Penticton to think about it tomorrow.
Thanks to all for the exceptional hospitality, and a fun time.
Dick |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
I guess it'd be contradictory to try a 207/FT17 combo (if the filter can be simplified to a single HP cap, does it still qualify as a "network") |
That was the target set of drivers from the get-go... but XOs are deceptively tricky beast and we needed to have a good long time to fiddle with them. A single cap is certainly the fall-back position, but i have something a bit trickier up my sleeve (4 components). The values just need to juggled to make it right.
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geek
Maybe I'll stick to being a tube geek and leave the speaker listening to you :D |
Come on -- my opinion is only one man's opinion... :)
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dickmorgan22
All in good fun. |
And i feel, one of the hi-lites. What they may have lacked in finesse & finetuning, they more than made up in whimsy, surprise, and encouragement for others to be creative :)
dave |
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| Geek |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Come on -- my opinion is only one man's opinion... :) |
Of course I was kidding, hence the smiley ;)
| quote: | | ...XOs are deceptively tricky beast and we needed to have a good long time to fiddle with them. |
Indeed!
One reason I gave up with the spreadsheets (well, I use them for ballpark values) and just use ears and the measuring kit to get the dang things right. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geek
Maybe I'll stick to being a tube geek and leave the speaker listening to you :D |
Anyone can listen to speakers or even announce their opinions, however it takes a special type of "geek" to specify or modify enclosure & XO designs that both sound musical and are easy for others to build.
Both Dave and you have achieved that - your little Aura/Audax 2 way is quite impressive. |
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| Geek |
Thanks! ^_^
Dave and I were talking about maybe getting a 4th (a smaller) room worked out for the smaller speakers to perform best in. Dunno if it'll happen, but it's good gedankenspiel to ponder.
Those µFonken's and other little guys could really shine without the help of a sub in say a 150- 200 sq. ft enclosed area. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geek
in say a 150- 200 sq. ft enclosed area. |
In Ruth's sewing room, or even the back of the garage (need to clear out quite a bit of stuff... i'm working on that thou)
dave |
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| Geek |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
In Ruth's sewing room... |
Perfect!
It even has a door to keep the OB sound out of the mix .... my "Baby Amp" would have a place to be useful :) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geek
t even has a door to keep the OB sound out of the mix .... my "Baby Amp" would have a place to be useful :) |
There is Ruth & everything in that room to contend with... i really need to offload enuff stuff to clear out 1/2 the central bay of the garage.
dave |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geek
Thanks! ^_^
Dave and I were talking about maybe getting a 4th (a smaller) room worked out for the smaller speakers to perform best in. Dunno if it'll happen, but it's good gedankenspiel to ponder.
Those µFonken's and other little guys could really shine without the help of a sub in say a 150- 200 sq. ft enclosed area. |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
There is Ruth & everything in that room to contend with... i really need to offload enuff stuff to clear out 1/2 the central bay of the garage.
dave |
if next year's event spans several days, we could always arrange for an alternate venue in suburban Gordon Head - there are 3 separate listening rooms therein, one of which certainly would qualify for small room.
Unfortunately no outdoor demo facilities, overnight accommodations, or structures requiring demo - and Cal, T-shirts required.
Kevin, did we ever get a confirmation on your inquiry?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...108#post1267108 |
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| doorman |
With Cal, (as with most of the rest of us) a heavy fine should be mandatory if caught without a T-shirt:smash:
Don |
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| EDDIEMUNSTER |
Susan and I arrived home from the vacation today after a long day on the road. We spent a few days in Vancouver with a friend.
I must say that Susan and I had a great time at the FEST and will certainly attend in the future. Everyone was friendly, the food was great and the equipment superb. Thanks again Dave and your wife and all others that helped put it together.
Some of my favorite sound stuff included the Visaton B200's in the open baffle, the Fonken's and the smaller Mileva (brown with black moded drivers). I also liked Terry's two-ways. You guys renewed my interest in the single drivers and I will certainly look at making some speakers using either modified B200's or FE126's.
Cheers,
Doug Woodliffe |
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| germpod |
The Visaton B200's sounded really great to me, but I do not know how well they would work in my small living room, and I do not have space for open baffels. I will have to do some more checking though, since they did sound very good.
Where do people buy those Visaton B200's, I have not checked a bunch yet and am just being a bit lazy here? The only place I saw was e-speakers.com and they were $135 I think, I have not checked to see how reliable of a web sight they are.
Outside of full range what enclosures are people using for those?
Ed Robinson |
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| TerryO |
| quote: | Originally posted by germpod
The Visaton B200's sounded really great to me, but I do not know how well they would work in my small living room, and I do not have space for open baffels. I will have to do some more checking though, since they did sound very good.
Where do people buy those Visaton B200's, I have not checked a bunch yet and am just being a bit lazy here? The only place I saw was e-speakers.com and they were $135 I think, I have not checked to see how reliable of a web sight they are.
Outside of full range what enclosures are people using for those?
Ed Robinson |
Ed,
I can't give any info on the B200's, Dave or perhaps Ed West and Dick Morgan have some insights to share.
However, e-speakers is run by Andre Perrault, who is one of the premiere sound guys in the film industry of Southern California. Andre is a speaker builder/hobbiest and runs e-speakers as a sideline. He tends to carry Hi-End components that some of the others overlook because the market just isn't big enough (at least that's my take on it). Over the years he's turned out some absolutely beautiful speakers, first class cabinet work rivaled only by Ellis and Salk.
He's been at it a number of years and I've never heard anyone that's done business with him that has had any complaints. He was a regular over on the old Bass List and always came across as a standup guy.
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by germpod
Where do people buy those Visaton B200's |
From me? I usually sell them with phase plugs installed.
dave |
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| chrisb |
Ed - there are a few designs for the B200 that aren't Open Baffle, but none are particularly tiny
http://www.visaton.com/en/chassis_z...and/b200_6.html
There are also numerous DIY designs or low production commercial designs that attempt to reduce the overall baffle dimensions by augmentation with bass drivers (for example Visaton's own BGS40, or Eminence drivers by Hawthorne) I've heard one such, and while successful in regards to smaller baffle size and needing fine tuning on the implementation of the tweeter, there's the substantial additional cost of drivers, and complexity of crossovers.
No doubt there are endless permutations possible that could include small sealed or ported woofers and ribbon tweeters in the pursuit of that last little bit of extension on either end of the spectrum, but maintaining the seamless quality that a refined albeit imperfect wide range bandwidth driver such as the B200 gets exponentially costly.
If space was available, I'd be all over something like the little Korean prototype 6.5" driver in an OB, but in reality that's not practical, so it's just easier to put up with the limitations of a well executed smaller driver in a wife friendly cabinet, such as the Fonken, PAWO or Mileva. I've long since reconciled the fact that I'm *whipped in this regard, but the only room in the house that sounds good isn't mine to play with, so except for occasional testing, a level 3 Frugelhorn, A126 or any type OB are simply out of the question.
No doubt that's the impetus for the aesthetics and performance compromises that I'm willing to make in my own builds.
but I digress
The B200 in an OB do sound quite delightful, and smaller dimensions that at Dave's could probably still work very well. A friend has a set of the Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris 15" coax, and is quite happy with the performance after substantially cutting down the size of the baffle. He also has a pair of the B200 on a fairly small panel. When Bob gets back from a current out of country business trip ( Hawaii in July/August!) we can ask him what sizes he's using. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisb
there are a few designs for the B200 that aren't Open Baffle, but none are particularly tiny |
Be interesting to hear B200 in Loreena (i do need to get 1v1 out the gate). This particular BVR is for drivers that would normally be considered too highQ for a box...
dave |
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| TerryO |
It really bothered me that I couldn't remember what the company was that Andre is associated with. I've found that a decent night's sleep really helps clear "brain fog" and this instance was no exception. First, and I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe that Andre's last name may be spelled with two R's (Perrault). I finally remembered that Andre's name came up in a conversation I had with Dan Wiggins a few years back and I believe that Dan mentioned that Andre was with Technicolor Sound Services in Hollywood.
The old brain's pretty decrepit, but it's still functioning after a fashion.:xeye:
Best Regards,
TerryO |
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| Nanook |
well after the axle fiasco, there existed a ball joint fiasco :( .
Left beautiful Whalley yesterday at 7:30 am PST, arrived home 1:00 am MST.
Guess I didn't realise how ******* popular Timmy's is with travellers, had to wait 30 mins for a cup of coffee in Golden. No car troubles, no travelling companion troubles, and 44 mpg all the way.
now I can unpack, reorganize and have a reality check.
Thanks all. |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nanook
well after the axle fiasco, there existed a ball joint fiasco :( .
Left beautiful Whalley yesterday at 7:30 am PST, arrived home 1:00 am MST.
Guess I didn't realise how ******* popular Timmy's is with travellers, had to wait 30 mins for a cup of coffee in Golden. No car troubles, no travelling companion troubles, and 44 mpg all the way.
now I can unpack, reorganize and have a reality check.
Thanks all. |
44mpg, with all that cargo? With that kind of mileage, it sounds like you certainly don't want to upgrade the car anytime soon, since you've repaired everything that can possibly go wrong :hot:
"Fridgin" (d=g) was blocked by forum nanny filter!
I'm not really crazy about their coffee, but the chicken salad wrap is quite tasty. |
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| germpod |
| Thanks for the responses, my curisosity feels better now :) |
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| EDDIEMUNSTER |
I am always amazed how good the Visaton site is. They provide many enclosure options for each driver and each design is carefully explained for the novice builder. Hats off to Visaton!
I am interested in several of the B200 designs shown there. Some would fit quite nicely here in the living room and even though they would not provide optimum performance, the drivers are good enough that I am sure they would provide great sound. I like the size of the Solo 50.
It seems that the single driver base reflex designs require substantial dampening and are less efficient than the multi driver options. Perhaps a chunk of Dflex behind the driver and some good quality stuffing will do.
Cheers,
Doug |
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| Nanook |
well not really. Had the car for 3 years...low buy in, and these repairs are the only ones. 400,000 km and still pulling like a typical Honda
germpod: Regarding smaller enclosures---not sure how many have spent time with the Fonkens, but to my way of thinking, an incredibly great speaker--just not to my brother's taste (but the little 15 litre ones with FE167E seem to be great with his Decware. And I modelled the 167s in the 15 litre box, with 2" diameter X 3" long port ending up with a tuning something like 72Hz. This seem correct?). Now I gotta find him a decent turntable or make him one, and an arm. And maybe a phono stage.
I lived with the Fonkens for about 5 weeks earlier this year, and I know I could easily live with them (sans sub of any sort) with the right amplification. It is amazing what these little guys can do. If space is at a premium (or not), or if WAF is a consideration, these must rank near the top. oh, ya, of course assuming that great sound is paramount.
Speaking of WAF and such (or SOAF), the beautifull little metronomes scored big with my lovely bride, and sounded excellent as well.
Chris/Dave: Please see www.affordableaudio.org for the "sidekick" clarrification.
It's tough being a left wing flyer in a right-winged world |
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