cheap as chips high end speaker cables

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samtheman23

Member
Joined 2006
try this cable before you spend silly money on speaker cable like i have done many times.
go to rs components and order 359-510 wire ptfe 19/0.15 for 15 uk pounds! and for that you get a role of 25m!
only prob is its pink!
it shound not work because it is to thin? but bass is full and extened and treble is clear and sweet honest
you wont believe what your hearing, run it singe cable not doubled up
 
phn

phn

Member
Joined 2004
Wire Gauge - Ohm/100ft - 8Ohms - 4Ohms - 2Ohms load
#8 ----------- .0605 ----- 0.8% -- 1.5% --- 3.0%
#10 --------- .1018 ----- 1.3% --- 2.5% --- 5.1%
#12 --------- .1619 ----- 2.0% --- 4.0% --- 8.1%
#14 --------- .2575 ----- 3.2% --- 6.4% -- 12.9%
#16 --------- .4094 ----- 5.1% -- 10.2% -- 20.5%
#18 --------- .6510 ----- 8.1% -- 16.3% -- 32.6%
 
Cloth Ears

Cloth Ears

Member
Joined 2001
lineup said:
you can parallel
4 + 4 lengths of wire
and so reduce resistance and inductance
with a factor ~4
( only 25% of using 1 + 1 wire )
Click to expand...
...and increases capacitance by the same factor. Such increased capacitance can interfere with the feedback loop in some SS amps, by shunting the HF components, to the extent that the amps can self-destruct.
If you perform a square wave test, it will show significant overshoots on transients due to the higher capacitance of the cable. This can give the erroneous impression of enhanced HF response of the system.

TINSTAAFL ("There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch")
 
lineup

lineup

Member
Joined 2005
phn said:
Wire Gauge - Ohm/100ft - 8Ohms - 4Ohms - 2Ohms load
#8 ----------- .0605 ----- 0.8% -- 1.5% --- 3.0%
#10 --------- .1018 ----- 1.3% --- 2.5% --- 5.1%
#12 --------- .1619 ----- 2.0% --- 4.0% --- 8.1%
#14 --------- .2575 ----- 3.2% --- 6.4% -- 12.9%
#16 --------- .4094 ----- 5.1% -- 10.2% -- 20.5%
#18 --------- .6510 ----- 8.1% -- 16.3% -- 32.6%
Click to expand...

#18------------ .65 Ohm/100ft === 8.1% of 8 Ohm

.... but 100ft ~30 meter!
I don't think an average cable is more than 6-10ft ( = 1.8-3m )

What often is considered as maximum acceptable impedance of a cable in relation to Load
is ---> 1:20

This gives the resistance of a loudspeaker cable should be:
for
8 Ohm: <= 0.4 Ohm
4 Ohm: <= 0.2 Ohm
2 Ohm: <= 0.1 Ohm

When using normal price good standard cable, for a normal system,
where we will eventually use 4-8 Ohm speakers,
we could be sure we have a good low value
if cable has got half of that 1:20 ratio at 4 Ohm = = ratio 1:40

4 Ohm /40 =

0.1 Ohm
Such a cable of good normal standard quality, would not cause any troubles.
It would be almost transparent in any situation.

lineup
 
lineup

lineup

Member
Joined 2005
Cloth Ears said:

...and increases capacitance by the same factor. Such increased capacitance can interfere with the feedback loop in some SS amps, by shunting the HF components, to the extent that the amps can self-destruct.
If you perform a square wave test, it will show significant overshoots on transients due to the higher capacitance of the cable. This can give the erroneous impression of enhanced HF response of the system.

TINSTAAFL ("There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch")
Click to expand...

You are right.

Yes, I was aware of this, and I even thought about it,
while I posting about the use of 4-doubled thinner cables.
But I did not mention this very correct fact.


Eventual CAPACITANCE in loudspeaker cables - AND IN CROSSOVERS
is the reason why we see this
series output resistor inside a wire wound inductor
in any serious or commercial power amplifier output.

Nelson Pass have told he never have had to use this output filter himself
and haven't had any problems.
But he most surely have no big capacitive loads from his speakers ....
Anyway, it does not hurt anything, to use such a safety filter
at our power amplifier outputs.

lineup
 
Cloth Ears

Cloth Ears

Member
Joined 2001
lineup said:
You are right.

Yes, I was aware of this, and I even thought about it,
while I posting about the use of 4-doubled thinner cables.
But I did not mention this very correct fact.
Click to expand...

But I also forgot to mention, Does not affect all amps (the early, high-powered, SS from '70s and '80s mostly). And, if you have low feedback (or none) then it won't affect.

I think 4 cables would not be so much of a problem. But when you get 8 or 12 then your capacitance is way up...:bomb:
 
I_Forgot

I_Forgot

Member
Joined 2005
I use twisted pair ribbon cable to connect my speakers to my amp. There are 17 pairs in each cable. I have measured the capacitance of the cable to be 1100 pF per foot. The cables are about 10 feet long.

I am not able to hear any difference between this cable and 12 gauge zip cord. The only reason I use these cables it because I went to the trouble of making them as an experiment. The cables are connected to Quad ESL-63 speakers, and my LM3886 based chip amp. The chip amp has the data sheet recommended L||R output network to prevent instability with capacitive loads. The amp has never had any problems driving this combination of cable and speaker load.

I_F
 
planet10

planet10

frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
planet10-hifi.com
Paid Member
owdi said:
It's cheap because it's thin, causing it to have high resistance. Don't use it for the same reason you wouldn't use a 22 awg inductor, it will reduce the efficiency of your speakers.
Click to expand...

... i'm happily using 2 strands of solid copper 24 g for my speaker wires. I started out with much fatter, but have gotten here because it sounds better....

dave
 
lineup

lineup

Member
Joined 2005
loudspeaker cables strand Bedea bedea.com

I can tell you what I use
for Loudspeaker Cables.

Does not cost me very much.
I usually buy 20 meter, each time I order.
I can use this cable for other wiring, too.
Like for internal wires inside power supply, amplifiers and loudspeakers.
Wherever is a higher current.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Data:
Area: 2 x 6.0 mm2
Build: 777 strands ×0.10 mm
Total Size: 6.1×12.5 mm

Highly flexible, transparent loudspeaker cable
2-conductor isolated with transparent PVC.
Conductor of extremely fine wire, acid-free copper.
Polarity marked every 30 cm.
Temperature range: −20 to +70 °C

Manufacturer: www.bedea.com ... Aßlar ... Deutschland
Bedea - Bedea.com High quality Cables of many kinds.
My Supplier:
http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?lang=en&vat=0&dok=179506.htm
Price: If buy >=10 meter
€4.29 / meter ..... ( ~ $1.70 / foot )

lineup :cool:
 
Cloth Ears

Cloth Ears

Member
Joined 2001
Lineup, that looks like the stuff I use. In various gauges, depending on the power of the amp - not for safety, just that some of my older amps only have small clips, whereas the later ones have bigger clips. Oh, and depending on whether I have a $10 or a $20 in my pocket when I go shopping...:clown:

dave, does that mean you're bi-wiring:) (heaven forbid:))?
 
dfdye

dfdye

Member
Joined 2005
Re: loudspeaker cables strand Bedea bedea.com

lineup said:
I can tell you what I use
for Loudspeaker Cables.

Does not cost me very much.
I usually buy 20 meter, each time I order.
I can use this cable for other wiring, too.
Like for internal wires inside power supply, amplifiers and loudspeakers.
Wherever is a higher current.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Click to expand...
[sarcasm]dOOd!!!!! That stuff is TERRIBLE!!!! You should SO use the half copper half silver stuff that is usually right next to it on the shelf!!! It is easily 10X better!!!!!

The different colored copper makes a more balanced input, and we all know that balanced inputs sound better, right!?!?!?!?!?!

:smash: :smash: :smash: [/sarcasm]

I always love it when speaker cable threads get going. :)

Anyway, I too add my vote for simple speaker cables, though I do commend this thread for appealing to the el-cheapo side of things! Save your money and buy new drivers!
 
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