Just a pick to show you a ''before'' and now...The VZ serie of Crown sound like a s**t! Dynamic is now incredible and sound 1000% better! Nice move! Anyways, we compare 5Kw and 3.6Kw amplifier again 8Kw PWM power....Will see if they will blow a amp every 2 week as before!
So Before pick..
fredos
www.d-amp.com
So Before pick..
fredos
www.d-amp.com
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Do your amps actually need that extra space between them for cooling? Or does the customer just happen to have extra space and is using it up?
That's a Rave nightclub and they have blow a Crown every two week in the last years...That's why I have leave space between amplifier! They will run it at clipping for at least 12 hours a night, 4 night a week!
For now, after 1 month, nothing have blow, except speaker! I'm proud that my amp performe where Crown Fail!
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
For now, after 1 month, nothing have blow, except speaker! I'm proud that my amp performe where Crown Fail!
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
You have to do some seriously crazy stuff to get those Crown Macro Tech amps to blow up. Sounds more like improper use by the end user as opposed to poor design by Crown. Those 3600VZ amps went on many high profile tours at the Pro Audio place I used to work and there weren't any catastrophic failures that I can remember.
Regardless, your modules must have some robust protection circuitry to keep them working the way that night club runs them.
Regardless, your modules must have some robust protection circuitry to keep them working the way that night club runs them.
Crown used improperly?
BWRX: " ... Sounds more like improper use by the end user as opposed to poor design by Crown ..."
Yes, but fredos did solve the "crown problem" by over amping ... which now causes speaker replacement.
Imaging: the dance hall with several stacks of "surround" speakers, sub woofers built into the dance floor, at least two towers of mains ... being driven by what now passes for "Funky Techno Transe misic" played at greater than the threashold of pain (+120 db above big city background noise) to the accompniment of the occasional blast from a railroad locomotve ai horn ...
My hat is off to fredos ... he and d-amp.com seem to have come up with some really rugged amps ... their web site indicates output short circuit protection = like driving a couple thousand watts through a screw driver across the output terminals ...
BWRX: " ... Sounds more like improper use by the end user as opposed to poor design by Crown ..."
Yes, but fredos did solve the "crown problem" by over amping ... which now causes speaker replacement.
Imaging: the dance hall with several stacks of "surround" speakers, sub woofers built into the dance floor, at least two towers of mains ... being driven by what now passes for "Funky Techno Transe misic" played at greater than the threashold of pain (+120 db above big city background noise) to the accompniment of the occasional blast from a railroad locomotve ai horn ...
My hat is off to fredos ... he and d-amp.com seem to have come up with some really rugged amps ... their web site indicates output short circuit protection = like driving a couple thousand watts through a screw driver across the output terminals ...
Re: Crown used improperly?
That's why I said it's not Crown's fault. The 3600VZ amps are pretty much bulletproof unless you do something stupid. Check out the data sheet for the 3600VZ, these amps aren't shabby by any means.
For one, the rack the amps were mounted in does not provide adequate airflow around the sides of the amps. Second, you are supposed to mount the amps directly on top of each other or close the gaps between amps with blank panels for proper cooling. They state this stuff in the manual for a reason...
FastEddy said:
That's why I said it's not Crown's fault. The 3600VZ amps are pretty much bulletproof unless you do something stupid. Check out the data sheet for the 3600VZ, these amps aren't shabby by any means.
For one, the rack the amps were mounted in does not provide adequate airflow around the sides of the amps. Second, you are supposed to mount the amps directly on top of each other or close the gaps between amps with blank panels for proper cooling. They state this stuff in the manual for a reason...
rack space?
" ... the rack the amps were mounted in does not provide adequate airflow around the sides of the amps. ..."
Thus one of the beautiies of Class D = lower heat = greater efficiencies ...
" ... the rack the amps were mounted in does not provide adequate airflow around the sides of the amps. ..."
Thus one of the beautiies of Class D = lower heat = greater efficiencies ...
You're absolutely right. I can't deny that I think class d is superior as well, but Crown's Macro Tech line are damn fine pro audio amps.
The faillure probleme with the crown was that they overheat a lot, even with the big 20'' fan directly into the amplifier rack to evacuate heat. When you touch the VZ after 3-4 hours, it's hard to believe how they dont blow after 12 hours! Even my D-Amp was really hot after 12 hours, but thermal protection have never trip....And sorry, Fast eddy, no overamping, they was a BSS brickwall limiter and gain of the D-Amp have been factory set to the same as the Crown....But overall impression was that sound is louder and a lot better! Maybe amplifier to fast for the BSS limiter!
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Same level = louder ?
fredos: " ... And sorry, Fast eddy, no overamping, they was a BSS brickwall limiter and gain of the D-Amp have been factory set to the same as the Crown....But overall impression was that sound is louder and a lot better! ..."
I missed that about the BSS limiter(s) ...
So, which of the models @ d-amp.com did you install? My guess was you are using all Model 8000s in the rack ... so there should actually be a lot more head room on the D-Amp replacements = thus the very real advantage of improved listening level = louder ... Yes?
fredos #1: " ... Dynamic is now incredible and sound 1000% better! ..."
fredos: " ... And sorry, Fast eddy, no overamping, they was a BSS brickwall limiter and gain of the D-Amp have been factory set to the same as the Crown....But overall impression was that sound is louder and a lot better! ..."
I missed that about the BSS limiter(s) ...
So, which of the models @ d-amp.com did you install? My guess was you are using all Model 8000s in the rack ... so there should actually be a lot more head room on the D-Amp replacements = thus the very real advantage of improved listening level = louder ... Yes?
fredos #1: " ... Dynamic is now incredible and sound 1000% better! ..."
That was 2 new 12K HVI for the sub, 2 8000HVI for the mid and 2 4000HVI for the hi....Very impressive! 48Kw total capacity.....maybe only 30Kw used!
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Include the new PDF for the 12K HVI..
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Include the new PDF for the 12K HVI..
Hi,
Change "experiment" to "experience" I think that's more what you were going for.
This slew rate comment is intriguing, is there not a slew rate imposed by the output filter? Is this variable frequency?
Change "experiment" to "experience" I think that's more what you were going for.
This slew rate comment is intriguing, is there not a slew rate imposed by the output filter? Is this variable frequency?
Wow ... 48,000 Watts
fredos: " ... 48Kw total capacity ..."
That's more than 64 Horsepower ... Is the dance hall big enough accomodate the sound pressure level?
fredos: " ... 48Kw total capacity ..."
That's more than 64 Horsepower ... Is the dance hall big enough accomodate the sound pressure level?
No No he said its' a Rave building. They just sit around and get stonned. If they actually danced the combined force would bring the roof down.
I wonder what the efficiency of the speakers in use is?
I wonder what the efficiency of the speakers in use is?
phase_accurate said:
😉 I still had to ask, he does mention some additional control though as opposed to simply saying unlimited slew rate.
Cheers,
Chris
I have been using Crown amp for over 10 years. I have never had an amp fail.
I have done gigs from Heavy Rap to Death Metal even Rave shows you name it. 3-day festivals where the PA runs all-day and night in 90-degree heat. As for the brick wall limiter sounds to me that the amp was clipping before the limiter even engaged. Because whoever was mixing should have heard the limiter kick in and at that point turned down the P.A. But I know Rave DJ’s don’t know about the words Turn down. Don’t get me wrong I am not knocking the d-amps if they fixed the problem great.
I have done gigs from Heavy Rap to Death Metal even Rave shows you name it. 3-day festivals where the PA runs all-day and night in 90-degree heat. As for the brick wall limiter sounds to me that the amp was clipping before the limiter even engaged. Because whoever was mixing should have heard the limiter kick in and at that point turned down the P.A. But I know Rave DJ’s don’t know about the words Turn down. Don’t get me wrong I am not knocking the d-amps if they fixed the problem great.
Slew rate: Feedback is taken after the output filter arrangement and AFTER the current sens resistor (0.005 ohms...) and feedback network is not compensated in the amplifier (bandwith is not limited) but in the audio processing stage. Even a 20khz square wave at full power is really square at the output. The only thing is the amplifier delay (about 200ns) wich is equal on all audio frequency. That why amplifier cannot have slew rate limit (in the audio band) Rise time is about 200V in 200ns, so I think I can advise this!
Gooch: Your lucky, maybe in montreal condition are worst for Crown amp! 🙂 Do you run it full power near clipping all night WITH sufficient power source? That's maybe a condition you dont reach to blow your's! Anyways, we are suppose to change a lot of Crown in lot of probleme nightclub in montreal soon! That's funny, most of my sale before was in antilla and souht america, but now north america begin to believe that a 10 pound amplifier can do the job better than a 100 pound amplifier!
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Gooch: Your lucky, maybe in montreal condition are worst for Crown amp! 🙂 Do you run it full power near clipping all night WITH sufficient power source? That's maybe a condition you dont reach to blow your's! Anyways, we are suppose to change a lot of Crown in lot of probleme nightclub in montreal soon! That's funny, most of my sale before was in antilla and souht america, but now north america begin to believe that a 10 pound amplifier can do the job better than a 100 pound amplifier!
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
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