I'm in the final stages of my computer source project, and it's come time to purchase a sound card.
The M-Audio 410 card meets my needs of 8 analog outs, but I'm wondering if there is a comparable card that I should be looking at. Cost is of course always an issue, but quality is paramount.
Thanks in advance.
-Steve
The M-Audio 410 card meets my needs of 8 analog outs, but I'm wondering if there is a comparable card that I should be looking at. Cost is of course always an issue, but quality is paramount.
Thanks in advance.
-Steve
If you can survive with ASIO drivers only, the new EMU 1820/1820M units are killer at the price. I have a Delta 1010 and just got an 1820M, and the Emu is noticably better in overall sound quality.
It's not cheap at $500 (the straight 1820 has lower grade converters, but is $400), but it's got a TON of features in addition to the 8 analog outs - 2 mic pre's (great for speaker measurement), up to 3 spdif outputs (independent of the analog outs, so you can have 14 channels), *great* analog input quality if you are interested in doing any recording (ie vinyl, or multichannel sacd/dvd-a that you can't rip digitally) etc.
Unfortunately, the WDM driver is stereo only, and so it won't work all that well with 'normal' multichannel apps.
On the 'ultra-cheap' side, the Chaintech card (AV710 or something like that) seems to get some good reviews at the price ($30-$40 or so) but I don't know how it stacks up directly against the 410
It's not cheap at $500 (the straight 1820 has lower grade converters, but is $400), but it's got a TON of features in addition to the 8 analog outs - 2 mic pre's (great for speaker measurement), up to 3 spdif outputs (independent of the analog outs, so you can have 14 channels), *great* analog input quality if you are interested in doing any recording (ie vinyl, or multichannel sacd/dvd-a that you can't rip digitally) etc.
Unfortunately, the WDM driver is stereo only, and so it won't work all that well with 'normal' multichannel apps.
On the 'ultra-cheap' side, the Chaintech card (AV710 or something like that) seems to get some good reviews at the price ($30-$40 or so) but I don't know how it stacks up directly against the 410
Revolution 7.1?
This is a cheaper card, and has 8 outputs and 2 line inputs + 1 mic input. 24 bit 192kHz...
Check it out.
This is a cheaper card, and has 8 outputs and 2 line inputs + 1 mic input. 24 bit 192kHz...
Check it out.
I've looked into the Revolution, and while it seems to be a great card, the 410 is much better suited I think.
I'd like to stay in the 100-200 dollar range if possible.
The card will be used for a 4 way active crossover primarily.
I'd like to stay in the 100-200 dollar range if possible.
The card will be used for a 4 way active crossover primarily.
Modding the card a bit should get you astonishing improvements: replace the +/-12V smoothing caps (470uf/16V afaik) with 2200uf/16V low esr ones (take care when you buy to make sure they fit); replace opamps with OPA2134AU and you're good to go.
The opamps are directly fed from the PCI's +/-12 (yuck - garbage)so that's why you need to change the filter caps.
PS. practice (de)soldering ic's on an old piece of junk before getting to the card itself. I used a small pin to gently lift one foot at a time and a ordinary soldering station.
The opamps are directly fed from the PCI's +/-12 (yuck - garbage)so that's why you need to change the filter caps.
PS. practice (de)soldering ic's on an old piece of junk before getting to the card itself. I used a small pin to gently lift one foot at a time and a ordinary soldering station.
Sorry for interrupting the thread with off topic question.
lucpes, are you writing about modding a 7.1 revolution? I own one which I am very peased with, but if it is easy to get it better... If so, which change do you think would have the greatest impact on sound quality?
--- Mikael R
lucpes, are you writing about modding a 7.1 revolution? I own one which I am very peased with, but if it is easy to get it better... If so, which change do you think would have the greatest impact on sound quality?
--- Mikael R
rosbacke said:
It's the same for the 410 or the Revo, for obvious reasons the layout is different...
I attach a pic for the Revo, shunting the front channels I/V filter output coupling caps is highly recommended (check front output offset). The mylar bypass i mentioned in the pic for the Pana FC is totally useless (read harshness) but changing the three opamps for the front channels brought the card to another level of detail. On mine I haven't changed all the opamps, just the three for the front channels (I/V & buffers); the pic is taken before the mods.
Make sure that the supply caps will fit, get smaller if not... take the cap datasheet and check that the diameter is <12mm or something like that. Any low esr cap will do, I have Rubycon ZL 3300/16V in now, downside is that the Rubycons are very long and the card eats the bottom two PCI slots.
Attachments
Aha, thanks for that reply. Seems like I have a small project to do. 😀
Just to make sure I understand you. By shunting the output coupling capacitor, you mean short circuit them but making sure the offset on the output does not rise above 10mV?
The rest seems pretty straight forward. Find a large low esr capacitor for the main supply of the op-amp and replacing the op-amps.
If I have trouble finding an op-amp, what should I look for, low noise, high slew-rate good CMRR? I remember seeing the board being equipped with NE5532 which I thought was a pretty good op-amp.
--- Mikael R
Just to make sure I understand you. By shunting the output coupling capacitor, you mean short circuit them but making sure the offset on the output does not rise above 10mV?
The rest seems pretty straight forward. Find a large low esr capacitor for the main supply of the op-amp and replacing the op-amps.
If I have trouble finding an op-amp, what should I look for, low noise, high slew-rate good CMRR? I remember seeing the board being equipped with NE5532 which I thought was a pretty good op-amp.
--- Mikael R
Hi,
Filtering the supply helps a lot indeed. Instead of removing the caps on the board I cut the power traces and put 22 ohms filter resistors in the power lines followed by 470 uF Panasonic FC caps. Did that on an M-Audio Audiophile-2496 card.
Cheers 😉
Filtering the supply helps a lot indeed. Instead of removing the caps on the board I cut the power traces and put 22 ohms filter resistors in the power lines followed by 470 uF Panasonic FC caps. Did that on an M-Audio Audiophile-2496 card.
Cheers 😉
lucpes...
Sorry for being part of the thread hijacking, but your tips are good news to me. I had wondered about the 5532's...
Guess I'll have to try those mods, too.
BTW, is there a big difference between the 410 and Revo circuitry, apart from the layout?
Thanks
Sorry for being part of the thread hijacking, but your tips are good news to me. I had wondered about the 5532's...
Guess I'll have to try those mods, too.
BTW, is there a big difference between the 410 and Revo circuitry, apart from the layout?
Thanks
For opamps OPA2134 - AU package or AD8620. First can be found for $3-4 the other is too expensive and not easily available.
Shunt the coupling capacitors=replace with a piece of wire (non-ferous resistance leads are great for this, or you might solder underneath the board to check). DC offset shouldn't be a problem but it's good to check at the output after mod.
OPA2134 - does not oscillate, does good with the +-12V power lines, DC offset without coupling caps is very low - 2mV and 3mV and the sq is just great. Not on par with the greatest CDP/DAC 🙂 but should beat the hell out of any mainstream CDP.
Regarding the circuit layout - the 410 uses a different chip/DAC/ADC than the Revo, I can't remember if the front out is buffered or not, but the same 5532s for analog - locate the AKM chip - DAC and see what opamps are near to know what to replace; 470ufs for +-12V filtering should be replaced too with something better.
I had both in my PC for a while but come to the conclusion that the Revo sounds better - more dynamic (this was before mod). Sold the 410 a while ago so cannot comment on the layout.
Shunt the coupling capacitors=replace with a piece of wire (non-ferous resistance leads are great for this, or you might solder underneath the board to check). DC offset shouldn't be a problem but it's good to check at the output after mod.
OPA2134 - does not oscillate, does good with the +-12V power lines, DC offset without coupling caps is very low - 2mV and 3mV and the sq is just great. Not on par with the greatest CDP/DAC 🙂 but should beat the hell out of any mainstream CDP.
Regarding the circuit layout - the 410 uses a different chip/DAC/ADC than the Revo, I can't remember if the front out is buffered or not, but the same 5532s for analog - locate the AKM chip - DAC and see what opamps are near to know what to replace; 470ufs for +-12V filtering should be replaced too with something better.
I had both in my PC for a while but come to the conclusion that the Revo sounds better - more dynamic (this was before mod). Sold the 410 a while ago so cannot comment on the layout.
So one last try.
Before this got off topic, I haven't seen an alternative for under 200 bucks to the 410. Anybody want to chime in? I'll be ordering in the next couple of days so....
Before this got off topic, I haven't seen an alternative for under 200 bucks to the 410. Anybody want to chime in? I'll be ordering in the next couple of days so....
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