I have decided to build a mosfet amplifier, but now I am a little bit confused between these two amps. I know that they are both good, but ...
Elektor crescendo ME is a classical amplifier with classical diferential input stage and added protection circuit with offset servo.
Rod `s project 101 is simple bootstrap amplifier without any protection, but I know that simple is many times better.
So any opinions between these two amps?
Elektor crescendo ME is a classical amplifier with classical diferential input stage and added protection circuit with offset servo.
Rod `s project 101 is simple bootstrap amplifier without any protection, but I know that simple is many times better.
So any opinions between these two amps?
😕 Hm no interest? I know that would be hard to compare those two amps, but.... please do not let me 
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think you should go for the ESP project 101. The bigger version of it handles more power and abusement than the elektor one (due to the nature of lateral mosfets).
IMHO the elektor crescendo ME is not well designed and tested and if you look very carefull on this website you can read how to tweak it in order to let it work properly.
I am shure Rod's product is well tested and analysed. It is also cheaper to build.
Long time ago I build the real crescendo and the crescendo ME is compared to that slightly whimpy.
When I have the guts to post my new version of the 'old' crescendo using excicon replacements I will let you know.
Sincerely,
Gofer
IMHO the elektor crescendo ME is not well designed and tested and if you look very carefull on this website you can read how to tweak it in order to let it work properly.
I am shure Rod's product is well tested and analysed. It is also cheaper to build.
Long time ago I build the real crescendo and the crescendo ME is compared to that slightly whimpy.
When I have the guts to post my new version of the 'old' crescendo using excicon replacements I will let you know.
Sincerely,
Gofer
supernet said:
a link to the Elektor crescendo schematic (not the ME, which was in the April 2001 issue of the now defunct magazine):
http://crilen.dns2go.com/pd/images/Big/Elektor/Cres1c.jpg
The Crescendo looks to be a good design, with cascoded VAS. Nearly identical to some current production amps from Hafler, like the P1500 etc.
You can buy boards for the 101 for $22 plus shipping. For the Elektor, I know of no source, but I am sure someone on this board has designed it and I suspect boards are available in Europe.
My take is go with the 101, because it is simple, solid and available. The Elektor will be tougher to build, and I doubt you will hear a difference. Build the both and report back here!!
Thanks😀
I am also a little bit on Rod`s side, but I belive that differencies are small, so I can start another story- bootstrap vs...
Some people on Rod`s forum complain about bass of p101, so this a little bit worried me.
I am also a little bit on Rod`s side, but I belive that differencies are small, so I can start another story- bootstrap vs...
Some people on Rod`s forum complain about bass of p101, so this a little bit worried me.
Just finished a P101......
Started out as an amp for a sub but after testing was far too good so ordered another PCB to make a stereo power amp, the low power version....... about 75W - 8ohm.
I won't go into a heap of adjectives but this is one fine amplifier that outdoes any Rotel, Marantz or NAD etc and in my 30+ years in this game it is one of the finest amps I've ever heard and that's going through a Rotel preamp. A P88 preamp would better? Don't know...... maybe someone could tell me. This amp really takes control of the speaker.
All components were just run of the mill from Jaycar, WES and Altronics (Oz suppliers) and from the sound I'm not going to replace them with any boutique components. I think Rod has done this design so you don't have to use the super special components but I'm sure they would enhance the design. IMO, a great design is more important. The power supply is a simple well thought out design that's very effective.... the more I look at it, the more clever I think it is.
As far as too much bass...... phooey. I'm using floorstanders with Peerless 850122 drivers with an F3 around 40Hz and not too much at all. All a matter of taste I suppose.
Rod was very helpful with any questions and the only problem I had was actually seeing some of the components that were grouped tightly when soldering....... old age.... [sigh].
Look out there's a new kid in town......... the P101...... take a bow Rod.
Here's some pics.
Started out as an amp for a sub but after testing was far too good so ordered another PCB to make a stereo power amp, the low power version....... about 75W - 8ohm.
I won't go into a heap of adjectives but this is one fine amplifier that outdoes any Rotel, Marantz or NAD etc and in my 30+ years in this game it is one of the finest amps I've ever heard and that's going through a Rotel preamp. A P88 preamp would better? Don't know...... maybe someone could tell me. This amp really takes control of the speaker.
All components were just run of the mill from Jaycar, WES and Altronics (Oz suppliers) and from the sound I'm not going to replace them with any boutique components. I think Rod has done this design so you don't have to use the super special components but I'm sure they would enhance the design. IMO, a great design is more important. The power supply is a simple well thought out design that's very effective.... the more I look at it, the more clever I think it is.
As far as too much bass...... phooey. I'm using floorstanders with Peerless 850122 drivers with an F3 around 40Hz and not too much at all. All a matter of taste I suppose.
Rod was very helpful with any questions and the only problem I had was actually seeing some of the components that were grouped tightly when soldering....... old age.... [sigh].
Look out there's a new kid in town......... the P101...... take a bow Rod.
Here's some pics.
Attachments
Rod’s amps are very good sounding, so why not this one (especially when he claims a refference)?
Unfortunately, when people ask about speaker/amp choice they don’t tell the amp/speaker they are using. I found that Rod’s amps work well with many speakers. OTOH, crescendo is not so good in sosializing with other parts of the audio chain.
Low frequencies. That is where the crescendo (and many MOSFET) excels. Your other parts must be able to accommodate this. Though both amps use similar transistor (in specs) but I haven’t found a TO-3P that can rival a TO-3 in bass. So if you worried about poor bass, that must be true (with crescendo as comparison). From spec mini-crescendo produces as low as 4Hz while Rod’s 10Hz but I don’t think that Rod’s is “that” close to mini-crescendo.
Knowing how crescendo sounds compared to many other amps I have built, in most situation I believe that Rod’s will outperform the crescendo. The crescendo had been giving me headaches for years. But I don’t give up (to make it as my refference amp). There’s something in the Hitachi that I like very much 🙂
Unfortunately, when people ask about speaker/amp choice they don’t tell the amp/speaker they are using. I found that Rod’s amps work well with many speakers. OTOH, crescendo is not so good in sosializing with other parts of the audio chain.
Low frequencies. That is where the crescendo (and many MOSFET) excels. Your other parts must be able to accommodate this. Though both amps use similar transistor (in specs) but I haven’t found a TO-3P that can rival a TO-3 in bass. So if you worried about poor bass, that must be true (with crescendo as comparison). From spec mini-crescendo produces as low as 4Hz while Rod’s 10Hz but I don’t think that Rod’s is “that” close to mini-crescendo.
Knowing how crescendo sounds compared to many other amps I have built, in most situation I believe that Rod’s will outperform the crescendo. The crescendo had been giving me headaches for years. But I don’t give up (to make it as my refference amp). There’s something in the Hitachi that I like very much 🙂
Simple is always better
I am 53 years old, since 9 years old constructing amplifiers as my hobby...just copy, not understanding well how it works.
30 percent of them explode.
50 percent works reasonable
10 percent works very well
09 percent where very impressive.
Real good, simple amplifiers, Rodd Elliot, Death of Zen....44 years doing....now 10 years studdying hard....measuring.... testing, and make modifications... cannot say that those 3000 amplifiers could beat John Lindsley Hood design.... one other i like.... very similar P3A from ESP.
Unfortunattely never heard AKSA, but i suspect can be "the one", because his philosophy.... sound is for years, not only for measurements.... but also for measures too..... but the main use is to manking feel good!
I do not have big knowledge...but good ears and a very skilled comparation man.... i now how to avoid errors in comparison.
Carlos
I am 53 years old, since 9 years old constructing amplifiers as my hobby...just copy, not understanding well how it works.
30 percent of them explode.
50 percent works reasonable
10 percent works very well
09 percent where very impressive.
Real good, simple amplifiers, Rodd Elliot, Death of Zen....44 years doing....now 10 years studdying hard....measuring.... testing, and make modifications... cannot say that those 3000 amplifiers could beat John Lindsley Hood design.... one other i like.... very similar P3A from ESP.
Unfortunattely never heard AKSA, but i suspect can be "the one", because his philosophy.... sound is for years, not only for measurements.... but also for measures too..... but the main use is to manking feel good!
I do not have big knowledge...but good ears and a very skilled comparation man.... i now how to avoid errors in comparison.
Carlos
53 year old.....
Hey Carlos............ another 53 year old. I can only trust my ears and not measurements and the older you get the more you know what to listen for. Only one of the few benefits getting older.
I was going to use the P101 in a sub and then build a Aska 55 but this worked out so well and I can't afford to build both..... sorry Hugh. I love Hugh's philosophy of keeping it simple and striving to reduce the number of components as I can relate to that. IMO, the Aska would sound better than my P101 but I'm extremely happy with the result that I got.
Off to enjoy the music..........
Hey Carlos............ another 53 year old. I can only trust my ears and not measurements and the older you get the more you know what to listen for. Only one of the few benefits getting older.
I was going to use the P101 in a sub and then build a Aska 55 but this worked out so well and I can't afford to build both..... sorry Hugh. I love Hugh's philosophy of keeping it simple and striving to reduce the number of components as I can relate to that. IMO, the Aska would sound better than my P101 but I'm extremely happy with the result that I got.
Off to enjoy the music..........
I'll be damned,
You lot are all the same age as me; I turned 53 just ten days back!
Journeys in a man's life perhaps?
Rabbitz, I'm sorry you didn't buy my AKSA, because you are the precise customer I look for. Educated, experienced, aware that simplicity is the key, and uneasy about the current obsession with specification since it so rarely correlates with good sound.
I strongly agree with you about Rod's mosfet amp. From what I've seen, it's 1 fine amp, but I promise you with carefully selected components, it will sound even better.
Carlos, you and I need to talk further....... email me privately!
Cheers,
Hugh
You lot are all the same age as me; I turned 53 just ten days back!
Journeys in a man's life perhaps?
Rabbitz, I'm sorry you didn't buy my AKSA, because you are the precise customer I look for. Educated, experienced, aware that simplicity is the key, and uneasy about the current obsession with specification since it so rarely correlates with good sound.
I strongly agree with you about Rod's mosfet amp. From what I've seen, it's 1 fine amp, but I promise you with carefully selected components, it will sound even better.
Carlos, you and I need to talk further....... email me privately!
Cheers,
Hugh
Re: Simple is always better
And the other 1% must be stolen or something 😀
That's what I'm doing with my crescendo. I want the crescendo to sound as good as possible. I have matched hundreds of BC550C for the differential amp (I will use 25V secondaries), but none of the transistor have hfE above 700. I'm also matching the 2SA970 to compare with the BC550. Caps are Black Gates (N and NX), resistors are Caddock. Even the expensive MOSFET is matched. I know that is stupid, but that's what this hobby is all about! If it still sounds not as expected, I have to try to live with the JLH.
destroyer X said:
And the other 1% must be stolen or something 😀
AKSA said:
That's what I'm doing with my crescendo. I want the crescendo to sound as good as possible. I have matched hundreds of BC550C for the differential amp (I will use 25V secondaries), but none of the transistor have hfE above 700. I'm also matching the 2SA970 to compare with the BC550. Caps are Black Gates (N and NX), resistors are Caddock. Even the expensive MOSFET is matched. I know that is stupid, but that's what this hobby is all about! If it still sounds not as expected, I have to try to live with the JLH.
hahaha, really, wheres the 1 percent?
53 Years is really a good time living, half century.... this way i do know wheres the other 1 percent, maybe a neuronium fail in this account...probable the last one.
My brain computer has some leakage, some diodes are with low resistance, somethimes start to oscilate....old machine.
Yes, can turn crazy too balance some damn amps... and i cannot remember how many measure exceptional... put in in a Broadcast television equipment...hummmmm (remembering)... spetrum analiser!
Wonderfull, and i put it in one distortion meter, with pointers...hard work.... very good.
Check all waves, all frequencies, inductive charge, capacitive charge, speaker charge.... wonderfull!
A lot of them sounds awfull!
Measuring good do not guarantees satisfaction... and really i do not think "when amplifier measure good and sounds bad, measure it again".
I passed a lot of years doing that. Now my idea is:
"when amplifier measure good and sounds bad, four choices...if you are broken (money) dismount to have the parts, or take a look outside window.... no one passing?... trow it out. Other way is when amplifier is heavy,... and you place is windy...put it to maintain the door openned, not to slamp!....but real good, is to be natural and animal, and send it to hell fast with a good shot gun".
Is wonderfull how our frustrations disappear when the damned, fly away full of holes.... and you spit and say ---- you!
Hey hugh, i am not a violent man...but i done this one day.... was wonderfull! Lost your personal adress, going to site always problem... do not remember why...i think outlook....hummmmm, do not know.
Write to me, and say hy! nanabrother@yahoo.com
A honor to me hugh, real, believe me.
Carlos
53 Years is really a good time living, half century.... this way i do know wheres the other 1 percent, maybe a neuronium fail in this account...probable the last one.
My brain computer has some leakage, some diodes are with low resistance, somethimes start to oscilate....old machine.
Yes, can turn crazy too balance some damn amps... and i cannot remember how many measure exceptional... put in in a Broadcast television equipment...hummmmm (remembering)... spetrum analiser!
Wonderfull, and i put it in one distortion meter, with pointers...hard work.... very good.
Check all waves, all frequencies, inductive charge, capacitive charge, speaker charge.... wonderfull!
A lot of them sounds awfull!
Measuring good do not guarantees satisfaction... and really i do not think "when amplifier measure good and sounds bad, measure it again".
I passed a lot of years doing that. Now my idea is:
"when amplifier measure good and sounds bad, four choices...if you are broken (money) dismount to have the parts, or take a look outside window.... no one passing?... trow it out. Other way is when amplifier is heavy,... and you place is windy...put it to maintain the door openned, not to slamp!....but real good, is to be natural and animal, and send it to hell fast with a good shot gun".
Is wonderfull how our frustrations disappear when the damned, fly away full of holes.... and you spit and say ---- you!
Hey hugh, i am not a violent man...but i done this one day.... was wonderfull! Lost your personal adress, going to site always problem... do not remember why...i think outlook....hummmmm, do not know.
Write to me, and say hy! nanabrother@yahoo.com
A honor to me hugh, real, believe me.
Carlos
AKSA said:
Hugh, 1951 must have been a great year. One advantage of age is patience and having seen all the fads come and go but the good simple designs remain. Throughout all my engineering days always used the KISS philosophy.
I'm a good loudspeaker designer and builder (I think I am anyway) but this amplifier stuff is a different game and is taking a while to sink into the old grey matter. Being an old Mechanical Engineer (the neanderthals of the engineering professions) I'm more used to 14lb hammers and 12m gears than dealing with electrons. The amount of time I spend in the wee hours of the morning trying to understand why some people use 10k volume pots vs 100k volume pots, difference between caps and other components has me puzzled. When you talk about carefully selected components I wouldn't know where to start but you've now got me thinking that Rod does show the components that are in the signal path so it's probably the place to start.
Thanks to people like yourself, Rod and Nelson us DIYers have a chance of getting something that sounds good that we normally couldn't afford.
One day I'll get an Aska......... a goal.
Very curious. I'm a '51 vintage also!
I think the advantage of having seen a lot of things come and go, and what endures, is a certain invaluable perspective.
Regards,
Jon
Jon,
- that is, of course, until you forget that invaluable perspective.
Bloody hell, I've lost my glasses again!
Seriously, however, the study of any technology forces a careful scrutiny of its history; only history shows where the future breakthroughs might spring from.
Cheers,
Hugh
- that is, of course, until you forget that invaluable perspective.
Bloody hell, I've lost my glasses again!
Seriously, however, the study of any technology forces a careful scrutiny of its history; only history shows where the future breakthroughs might spring from.
Cheers,
Hugh
That's made good wines... old ones.
We all know that something becomes longer and wonderfull... try to understand what becomes longer...more seconds.
By the way, i will happy to know what's AKSA 55 price, whole price sending to Brazil, and also to have instructions how to proceed...no guaranteed, but thinking of that.
Whats 101?.... i want to know.... i construct all i found...and dismount a lot of awfull damn things and return to hear Death of Zen..... to bass i use another circuit separated, because has harmonics.
If not harmonics...not sound!
Welcome you all 1951 made very special people....like us!....like good wine beeing better one by one.
Carlos
We all know that something becomes longer and wonderfull... try to understand what becomes longer...more seconds.
By the way, i will happy to know what's AKSA 55 price, whole price sending to Brazil, and also to have instructions how to proceed...no guaranteed, but thinking of that.
Whats 101?.... i want to know.... i construct all i found...and dismount a lot of awfull damn things and return to hear Death of Zen..... to bass i use another circuit separated, because has harmonics.
If not harmonics...not sound!
Welcome you all 1951 made very special people....like us!....like good wine beeing better one by one.
Carlos
Re: That's made good wines... old ones.
Have a look here Carlos for the P101..... http://sound.westhost.com/project101.htm
destroyer X said:
Have a look here Carlos for the P101..... http://sound.westhost.com/project101.htm
I think one problem is that these days electronics students seem to be taught to very much rely on the power of the silicon chip. Rather than design a discrete solution for anything, it's all to much put forward that "someone will have a chip to do the job". Of course this leads to the "black box" way of understanding, if it works - who cares how.
This was my experience when I signed up for an electronics course in college a few years back. They eventually discontinued it just 2 months in.
For example, I am pretty good with digital logic, and microcontrollers, but utterly useless designing anything with discrete components. I would love to learn more but sadly going to university or so is just way out of my budget.
This was my experience when I signed up for an electronics course in college a few years back. They eventually discontinued it just 2 months in.
For example, I am pretty good with digital logic, and microcontrollers, but utterly useless designing anything with discrete components. I would love to learn more but sadly going to university or so is just way out of my budget.
I am also thinking about building esp101 project, my other choice is aussieamplifiers.com symmetrical mosfet amp since boards are also available 😉 As for me, I am only 25 and always been into "how things work" ask my parents about old radios and tuners 
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