Hello everyone!!
I'm just about to build Elso's mk7 clock, and noticed that the BC550C on the schematic is a low noise version of the BC550. Would it also be better for the 'opposite' transistor BC560 to be a BC560C low noise one too? I source most of my components from Maplins and Farnell, and the only place I could get the low noise BC560C was RS, which would mean £5 postage for a few transistors.
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/catalog/viewproductdetails.jsp;jsessionid=HS0FNZZHQZYOBQFIAEXCFE4AVAAS2IV3?prodId=3163246
On this page is listed a BC557C, which appears to have similar spec to the BC550C, apart from being PNP and not NPN. Would this make a better choice than a normal non-low-noise BC560 do you think? I've had a look round on the forums, but everyone I assume just sticks with the normal BC560. I have both the BC557C and the BC560 sat on my desk, so it is now only a matter of choosing which one would be best.
As I was posting this thread, I thought I may as well include a picture of the clock currently installed in the CDP, any suggestions as to which resistors to remove and exactly how to hookup the Kwak-Clock?
One more thing, would it be best to use a double sided PCB with one side left unetched to act as a ground plane, and only bring the ground through to the other side where required? Or would it be better to cram all the required ground tracks onto the bottom with the rest, working as a single sided board? Also, if I use a ground plane, is it best to space the components away from the board a bit to reduce potential interfierance from the components being so close to the ground plane?
Does anyone have any general experience upgrading these CDP as they seem a bit rare on the forums, people normally seem to go for the more expensive 10** series of Rotel stuff.
Thanks in advance for any help!!
Steve
I'm just about to build Elso's mk7 clock, and noticed that the BC550C on the schematic is a low noise version of the BC550. Would it also be better for the 'opposite' transistor BC560 to be a BC560C low noise one too? I source most of my components from Maplins and Farnell, and the only place I could get the low noise BC560C was RS, which would mean £5 postage for a few transistors.
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/catalog/viewproductdetails.jsp;jsessionid=HS0FNZZHQZYOBQFIAEXCFE4AVAAS2IV3?prodId=3163246
On this page is listed a BC557C, which appears to have similar spec to the BC550C, apart from being PNP and not NPN. Would this make a better choice than a normal non-low-noise BC560 do you think? I've had a look round on the forums, but everyone I assume just sticks with the normal BC560. I have both the BC557C and the BC560 sat on my desk, so it is now only a matter of choosing which one would be best.
As I was posting this thread, I thought I may as well include a picture of the clock currently installed in the CDP, any suggestions as to which resistors to remove and exactly how to hookup the Kwak-Clock?
One more thing, would it be best to use a double sided PCB with one side left unetched to act as a ground plane, and only bring the ground through to the other side where required? Or would it be better to cram all the required ground tracks onto the bottom with the rest, working as a single sided board? Also, if I use a ground plane, is it best to space the components away from the board a bit to reduce potential interfierance from the components being so close to the ground plane?
Does anyone have any general experience upgrading these CDP as they seem a bit rare on the forums, people normally seem to go for the more expensive 10** series of Rotel stuff.
Thanks in advance for any help!!
Steve
Attachments
Well, noone seemed to reply so I went ahead with the BC557C, hopefully it will work OK. The circuits all finished now (with the exception of removing the crystal from the CDP) and ready for testing and setup on monday. 🙂
Please comment on any improvements/modifications to this as I doubt somehow this will be the final version...
Thanks Elso for sharing this!!! In case you were wondering where I got the schematic you emailed my housemate (he's on this forum as 'Hesky'). I know you like to keep these things a little more personal than just posting up the schematic on here, from what I've gathered anyway.
The output is the hole on the end of the resistor on the far left. The power supply inputs are hidden in this pic
Please comment on any improvements/modifications to this as I doubt somehow this will be the final version...
Thanks Elso for sharing this!!! In case you were wondering where I got the schematic you emailed my housemate (he's on this forum as 'Hesky'). I know you like to keep these things a little more personal than just posting up the schematic on here, from what I've gathered anyway.
The output is the hole on the end of the resistor on the far left. The power supply inputs are hidden in this pic
Attachments
BC550C
Hi Steve,
On www.farnell.com the BC550C from Philips is listed as part# 3163246.
I designed a single sided PCB as double sided are a pain to repair and also more difficult to make.
I am using much smaller ferrite beads, 3 x 3 mm with only a half turn of wire.
Good luck with your clock project!🙂
Hi Steve,
On www.farnell.com the BC550C from Philips is listed as part# 3163246.
I designed a single sided PCB as double sided are a pain to repair and also more difficult to make.
I am using much smaller ferrite beads, 3 x 3 mm with only a half turn of wire.
Good luck with your clock project!🙂
Hi Elso,
I'm using the BC550C you mention already (same source too), it was the BC560 I was concerned with. Ill try and explain myself better. Have you used the BC560 and not the BC560C low noise version for availability reasons? I'm guessing there's some advantage to using the BC550C over the BC550? So I assumed that it would be best to use a low noise transistor on the opposite side too. Looking through the data sheets at Maplins the BC557C looks exactly the same as the BC550C apart from being PNP, so I went for that. Was this a good thing to do?
As for using the ground plane it hasn't been too much hassle. I've just used components legs to join the ground plane through the PCB onto little mini-tracks that then join the components in the required places. I enjoyed myself anyway 🙂 . It also meant I could cram all the components in nicely and still have reasonable and manufacturable track widths, as no ground tracks are required underneigh, and in my single sided design these accounted for around half the tracks. Unfortunately size is a fairly important consideration in my CDP, there's not too much room there. Ill make my own one day.......
Ill bear the ferrite beads in mind when i try and set it up on monday. Any ideas or clues as to how these may influence the output signal?
Thanks for the suggestions,
Steve
I'm using the BC550C you mention already (same source too), it was the BC560 I was concerned with. Ill try and explain myself better. Have you used the BC560 and not the BC560C low noise version for availability reasons? I'm guessing there's some advantage to using the BC550C over the BC550? So I assumed that it would be best to use a low noise transistor on the opposite side too. Looking through the data sheets at Maplins the BC557C looks exactly the same as the BC550C apart from being PNP, so I went for that. Was this a good thing to do?
As for using the ground plane it hasn't been too much hassle. I've just used components legs to join the ground plane through the PCB onto little mini-tracks that then join the components in the required places. I enjoyed myself anyway 🙂 . It also meant I could cram all the components in nicely and still have reasonable and manufacturable track widths, as no ground tracks are required underneigh, and in my single sided design these accounted for around half the tracks. Unfortunately size is a fairly important consideration in my CDP, there's not too much room there. Ill make my own one day.......
Ill bear the ferrite beads in mind when i try and set it up on monday. Any ideas or clues as to how these may influence the output signal?
Thanks for the suggestions,
Steve
BC560C
Hi Steve,
BC560C is part# 992847 from www.farnell.com , Onsemi part. The parts mentioned by you will also work but were not specified by me.😎
Hi Steve,
BC560C is part# 992847 from www.farnell.com , Onsemi part. The parts mentioned by you will also work but were not specified by me.😎
Hi,
Sorry I meant the data sheets at Farnell, not Maplins....bit confusing...
Anyway, just took this picture of the underside to show how simple the tracks are for this layout. If you could let me know what you think Elso about how it might perform compared to yours I'd be very grateful.
Thanks again,
Steve
Sorry I meant the data sheets at Farnell, not Maplins....bit confusing...
Anyway, just took this picture of the underside to show how simple the tracks are for this layout. If you could let me know what you think Elso about how it might perform compared to yours I'd be very grateful.
Thanks again,
Steve
Attachments
Hi,
I can't keep up with this pace of replying!! 😉 I had a look at the UK Farnell site, and they don't have BC560C. I searched for 992847 as well, but no result. Perhaps Farnell only stock these in your country? I noticed the websites for the different regions were very different, so I guess that may be a sign that they operate fairly independantly. Ahh well, so long as it still works 🙂
Thanks,
Steve
I can't keep up with this pace of replying!! 😉 I had a look at the UK Farnell site, and they don't have BC560C. I searched for 992847 as well, but no result. Perhaps Farnell only stock these in your country? I noticed the websites for the different regions were very different, so I guess that may be a sign that they operate fairly independantly. Ahh well, so long as it still works 🙂
Thanks,
Steve
Hello,
I just looked on the Swiss Farnell site and they do have BC560C. Bit strange why they have it and the UK Farnell people don't.
I just looked on the Swiss Farnell site and they do have BC560C. Bit strange why they have it and the UK Farnell people don't.
Tracks
Hi,
Compared with my PCB you have very long tracks. But I presume yours will function as well. I don't have a groundplane at the componentside but groundfil between the tracks. I hope you will understand why I don't show a picture of the solderside.😱
Attached a picture courtesy of Cobra2.
baggystevo82 said:
Hi,
Compared with my PCB you have very long tracks. But I presume yours will function as well. I don't have a groundplane at the componentside but groundfil between the tracks. I hope you will understand why I don't show a picture of the solderside.😱
Attached a picture courtesy of Cobra2.
Attachments
Hi Elso,
Sorry about that, wasn't really thinking. Ill try and remove that pic of my PCB's underside if you want and if it's possible.
The Cobra2 chap you mention, I think he emailed me earlier asking if he could buy one of my PCB's... I replied saying that mine was untested and that he should get your 'blessing' so to speak before even thinking about it. So does this mean he's already built one? Why would he want another PCB?
Steve
Sorry about that, wasn't really thinking. Ill try and remove that pic of my PCB's underside if you want and if it's possible.
The Cobra2 chap you mention, I think he emailed me earlier asking if he could buy one of my PCB's... I replied saying that mine was untested and that he should get your 'blessing' so to speak before even thinking about it. So does this mean he's already built one? Why would he want another PCB?
Steve
Hello,
A few more problems:
There was no +-12v supply in the digital stage, everything seemed to be 5, even straight after rectification.
Just for testing (I think I'll have to build a seperate power supply) I'm using an old computer power supply, which gives +-11.96v, I guess this is OK and is fairly smooth. I hooked it up to the CDP, and it does act differently, but still doesn't work, the lense moves to the extreme outside and the disc doesnt spin. With the output of the clock on the other pad on the players pcb it acts exactly as it does with no clock, i.e. spinning up to silly speed etc. I put the crystal and the decoupling caps back in the cdp to check everything was still ok and nothing was damaged and everything is fine, I guess it just needs more setting up. I set the pot so pin 3 of the IC was at +0.55v, however, the pot is 5k not 2k, does this matter so long as the voltage at pin 3 is correct? Apart from the transistor discussed earlier this is the only deviation from the original design.
Am I going to have to find an oscilloscope somewhere? Or are there other ways of setting these up?
Thanks,
Steve
A few more problems:
There was no +-12v supply in the digital stage, everything seemed to be 5, even straight after rectification.
Just for testing (I think I'll have to build a seperate power supply) I'm using an old computer power supply, which gives +-11.96v, I guess this is OK and is fairly smooth. I hooked it up to the CDP, and it does act differently, but still doesn't work, the lense moves to the extreme outside and the disc doesnt spin. With the output of the clock on the other pad on the players pcb it acts exactly as it does with no clock, i.e. spinning up to silly speed etc. I put the crystal and the decoupling caps back in the cdp to check everything was still ok and nothing was damaged and everything is fine, I guess it just needs more setting up. I set the pot so pin 3 of the IC was at +0.55v, however, the pot is 5k not 2k, does this matter so long as the voltage at pin 3 is correct? Apart from the transistor discussed earlier this is the only deviation from the original design.
Am I going to have to find an oscilloscope somewhere? Or are there other ways of setting these up?
Thanks,
Steve
Oooh one more question! 🙂
Elso, or anyone else who knows, how would you hook up the ground from the clock, if at all, now it's run from a seperate supply?
Cheers
Elso, or anyone else who knows, how would you hook up the ground from the clock, if at all, now it's run from a seperate supply?
Cheers
baggystevo82 said:
Many Cd-players & many Dac's...tweaking...tweaking....
Anyway, having seen the underside...I prefer Elso's PCB...!
Arne K
Hehe, arent you glad I didnt sell you one now!!
Everyones gotta start somewhere, and I'm still quite happy with it for a first ever pcb, no doubt elso's has been through various revisions and developments as well. Why don't you make one?
So any ideas as to my question Arne?
Everyones gotta start somewhere, and I'm still quite happy with it for a first ever pcb, no doubt elso's has been through various revisions and developments as well. Why don't you make one?
So any ideas as to my question Arne?
Not a bad effort!! 🙂 Nearly as good as my room, went on a bit of a mission tidying it yesterday though so I can actually move now.
Did you set up your kwak clock on a scope then? How come yours has 4 big electrolytics? is that an earlier circuit? or is it using two smaller caps to replace the one big one...
Do you have to use a seperate power supply too? what do you do with grounding etc?
Thanks,
Stevo
Did you set up your kwak clock on a scope then? How come yours has 4 big electrolytics? is that an earlier circuit? or is it using two smaller caps to replace the one big one...
Do you have to use a seperate power supply too? what do you do with grounding etc?
Thanks,
Stevo
Grounds
Hi,
All grounds should be connected together, that is there should be a connection between the ground of your separate supply, the ground of the clock PCB and the ground on the PCB of the player.
A scope is the best way to check if your clock is working i.e. oscillating. Did you have +/-5V supplies for the comparator and the FET on the clock PCB? The player should hhave some 9-16 raw supply before the +/-5V regulators
Good luck,
ELSO
😎
baggystevo82 said:
Hi,
All grounds should be connected together, that is there should be a connection between the ground of your separate supply, the ground of the clock PCB and the ground on the PCB of the player.
A scope is the best way to check if your clock is working i.e. oscillating. Did you have +/-5V supplies for the comparator and the FET on the clock PCB? The player should hhave some 9-16 raw supply before the +/-5V regulators
Good luck,
ELSO
😎
doesn't your amp have some opamps for the output stages?
if yes, there's a +-15V there
PS: Elso, would it be better to place the clock on a raw supply or after the player's regulators?
if yes, there's a +-15V there
PS: Elso, would it be better to place the clock on a raw supply or after the player's regulators?
Supply for clock
Hi Bricolo,
Please use the raw digital supply. Don't use the analog supply, giving bad sound. My clock sounds best without pregulation. Pi-filters are on board.
😎
Bricolo said:
Hi Bricolo,
Please use the raw digital supply. Don't use the analog supply, giving bad sound. My clock sounds best without pregulation. Pi-filters are on board.
😎
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