I've been building speakers for years, but for some reason I have never moved away from MDF, I don't know why, I guess I was just intimidated by real wood. Now I'm hearing that real wood is actually easier, because it has a natural finish and you don't need to try to make an artificial finish look good.
Also, now that I am researching it, it doesn't seem much different than working with MDF, I just use glue and clamps.
Does anyone have any pointers, or know of any websites that have step by step help for using real wood?
Also, now that I am researching it, it doesn't seem much different than working with MDF, I just use glue and clamps.
Does anyone have any pointers, or know of any websites that have step by step help for using real wood?
Real wood 'works' more than MDF under the influence of changes in humidity.
As real wood has rings, it'll work in different directions.
MDF is available in large sizes, for real wood you'll have to glue different piece together. You'll need to make it so that the rings on two pieces aren't in the same direction, otherwise the wood will tend to go more to one direction.
Real wood is also expensive. You could buy panels of real wood, which are already glued. But even when not using quality wood it's very expensive.
I'd say, use MDF or another material for the inside, and cover the entire speaker with a thin layer of wood (but not as thin as veneer)
As real wood has rings, it'll work in different directions.
MDF is available in large sizes, for real wood you'll have to glue different piece together. You'll need to make it so that the rings on two pieces aren't in the same direction, otherwise the wood will tend to go more to one direction.
Real wood is also expensive. You could buy panels of real wood, which are already glued. But even when not using quality wood it's very expensive.
I'd say, use MDF or another material for the inside, and cover the entire speaker with a thin layer of wood (but not as thin as veneer)
Resist your urges!!!!!!! The worst thing for a non-resonant speaker cabinet to be made of is a highly resonant material like real wood.
MDF is much more suitable in every way and you can get it with veneer already on it from almost any decent plywood supply house.
MDF is much more suitable in every way and you can get it with veneer already on it from almost any decent plywood supply house.
When you factor in the additional cost of veneering over MDF, the cost of using hardwood boards isn't high.
A jointer is necessary to get straight edges for glueing up panels, and there are finger-joint bits for your router table to get even stronger glue joints. But if you're making side panels less than about 12 inches, it prolly isn't necessary.
The important thing is to use well dried lumber.
It bears repeating. Only use well dried lumber. See this post.
Ask local cabinet makers where they get the best lumber.
The joy of selecting and matching wood grains in raw lumber is surpassed by the pride and beauty of fine woodworking.
A jointer is necessary to get straight edges for glueing up panels, and there are finger-joint bits for your router table to get even stronger glue joints. But if you're making side panels less than about 12 inches, it prolly isn't necessary.
The important thing is to use well dried lumber.
It bears repeating. Only use well dried lumber. See this post.
Ask local cabinet makers where they get the best lumber.
The joy of selecting and matching wood grains in raw lumber is surpassed by the pride and beauty of fine woodworking.
Whatever you choose to do, for decent quality wood I can recommend:
Scotty's in Springfield
Crosscut Hardwoods in Eugene
Tree Products in Eugene
Be sure to visit each before making a selection.
Scotty's in Springfield
Crosscut Hardwoods in Eugene
Tree Products in Eugene
Be sure to visit each before making a selection.
The point here is that if you want a speaker to SOUND good you can NOT use real wood. This is not a cost factor, it is a reality that real wood resonates and that is the worst thing a speaker cabinet can do, period. If real wood was a good idea then it would be used by the most high-end, expensive speaker makers and it is not because it hurts the sound of the speaker. Not one maker on the market uses solid wood, there must be a reason!
markp is right. solid hardwood can ring like a bell. I used to build
guitars, so my experience with wood isn't too bad. I've built two
sets of speakers using birch veneered plywood. Both sounded great. I didn't like the grain on the second set; so I painted them
off white, covered the top and lower front with blue ceramic tile,
and used black grill cloth. Really looks great. You could do that
with mdf.
guitars, so my experience with wood isn't too bad. I've built two
sets of speakers using birch veneered plywood. Both sounded great. I didn't like the grain on the second set; so I painted them
off white, covered the top and lower front with blue ceramic tile,
and used black grill cloth. Really looks great. You could do that
with mdf.
or.....
MDF foundation + Fiberglass skin
to create cute enclosure shapes.
popular method for the car audio
phreaks.
MDF foundation + Fiberglass skin
to create cute enclosure shapes.
popular method for the car audio
phreaks.
Have you never heard Sonus Faber speakers? Among many others. MDF has a nasty sonic signature which is really difficult to ignore once you know it. It is of course much easier and cheaper to work with than hardwoods. I find acceptable sonic compromise in baltic birch but that's only because i'm clueless about working with real wood.
Sonus Faber uses about 4 inches of laminated hardwoods and not single pieces of wood and as such can not be lumped into the 'made out of wood' catagory. The choice here is between 3/4" oak, walnut, or whatever vs 3/4" MDF. Which would you rather have?
The sonic singature of mdf is easily fixed via damping compounds, bracing, and/or glueing up 2 thickness of MDF using a hard resin type glue. This works best when the inside sheet of mdf is sliced into smaller uneven blocks or at least scored randomly with a saw most of the way through and filled with resin glue. This creates a rigid panel with no single peak resonance but several much, much smaller ones a higher freqs that are less likely to be excited.
The sonic singature of mdf is easily fixed via damping compounds, bracing, and/or glueing up 2 thickness of MDF using a hard resin type glue. This works best when the inside sheet of mdf is sliced into smaller uneven blocks or at least scored randomly with a saw most of the way through and filled with resin glue. This creates a rigid panel with no single peak resonance but several much, much smaller ones a higher freqs that are less likely to be excited.
I generally agree with all you say. In fact i know almost nothing about speaker building - i just happen to dislike MDF as a support material for amps, sources etc and happen to own SF speakers which i've always assumed were made out of several pieces of walnut lined nicely with lead. With all their shortcomings they really exhibit very little cabinet sound and whatever is still there does not give any hint of the MDF bloom.
Hi,
There are good sounding speaker cabinets made of real wood, but for the majority of people here I think the "glue and screw" mentality is some-what entrenched.
For me lots of books said use MDF so I did, but then I thought perhaps the books are aimed at people want speakers and not high quality cabinets, and that the authors are more likely to be electronics enthusiasts that wood working enthusiasts.
What would you expect from that situation? MDF, Screws and Glue 😉
For me I decided on Baltic Ply combined with some simple joints and glue - plenty strong enough. Thats what happens when you put away the "norm" and give it some thought. I will never user screws again, there is simply no need if you can make a proper joint.
Others I know go to the trouble of sourcing wood, seasoning it, and then doing complex joint work to build what are the most solid cabinets available.
I would recomend a book on wood working, one that covers the many kinds of joints and woods, and then see if you are interested in making something really special.
One thing for sure is you will at least know what you talking about from a wood workers point of view.
Cheers, Tim.
There are good sounding speaker cabinets made of real wood, but for the majority of people here I think the "glue and screw" mentality is some-what entrenched.
For me lots of books said use MDF so I did, but then I thought perhaps the books are aimed at people want speakers and not high quality cabinets, and that the authors are more likely to be electronics enthusiasts that wood working enthusiasts.
What would you expect from that situation? MDF, Screws and Glue 😉
For me I decided on Baltic Ply combined with some simple joints and glue - plenty strong enough. Thats what happens when you put away the "norm" and give it some thought. I will never user screws again, there is simply no need if you can make a proper joint.
Others I know go to the trouble of sourcing wood, seasoning it, and then doing complex joint work to build what are the most solid cabinets available.
I would recomend a book on wood working, one that covers the many kinds of joints and woods, and then see if you are interested in making something really special.
One thing for sure is you will at least know what you talking about from a wood workers point of view.
Cheers, Tim.
Already mentioned was the resonance of 'real' wood. Could one simply spray some absorbitive adhesive type stuff onto the interior's surfaces then, apply the regular rule of stuffing, etc, to rid of this resonant evil? And, if you don't like the idea of wood, latley, I've seen some beautiful plexiglass speakers and sontube speakers as well.
It's not necessarily the wood
I think everyone here is mixing up the concept of "real wood" vs raw wood vs composite materials.
MDF, plywood, veneer and just about every material you have all mention are all composites. They are all wood, but they are also not raw wood. As composites, they have an adhesive resin to bond several smaller pieces of the material together.
Fiberglas is a composite. Sonotube concrete forms are just resin impregnated cardboard pipes which started life as wood pulp. All these materials are useless without the polymer matrix that holds them together. Even the Sonus Faber would be considered as composite construction as the wood pieces are too small to make up the structural elements by themselves and require a bonding material to create enough size.
Now, the Plexiglas acrylic sheet, that's considered to be a homogenous material. It is the same thing throughout and doesn't need a binder to connect pieces of itself together. Aluminum would be considered the same. Yet we expect the acrylic to sound dead and the metal to ring.
All materials will resonate. Even materials that have been constructed of pieces will have a resonant frequency - ie. Tacoma Narrows Bridge. It is the damping qualities of the material or construction that determines how the enclosure will sound. Composites are only as damped as their base materials and that includes the polymer used to hold it together.
Wood (whether it is in boards, ply layers, fibers or chips) is actually a well damped material. MDF will have a sound because the particles are small enough to create a fairly homogenous material after bonding. The problem with boards is that they are quite strong along the grain. Although the natural bond between the tree cells is not that strong the cell walls are very, very strong and overlap to create the structural properties we all enjoy from lumber. It is this strength that makes raw wood resonate more easily, but only along that one direction.
Plywood will be compromise sound between raw wood and MDF. It is made of sheet of raw wood with the grain structure intact. It also uses formadehyde based glues to bond the sheets in a cross-grain pattern to provide strength in two directions. In very thick grades of softwood, it would be very strong and very damped. But it is expensive and I suspect that is why most mfg do not use it.
🙂ensen.
I think everyone here is mixing up the concept of "real wood" vs raw wood vs composite materials.
MDF, plywood, veneer and just about every material you have all mention are all composites. They are all wood, but they are also not raw wood. As composites, they have an adhesive resin to bond several smaller pieces of the material together.
Fiberglas is a composite. Sonotube concrete forms are just resin impregnated cardboard pipes which started life as wood pulp. All these materials are useless without the polymer matrix that holds them together. Even the Sonus Faber would be considered as composite construction as the wood pieces are too small to make up the structural elements by themselves and require a bonding material to create enough size.
Now, the Plexiglas acrylic sheet, that's considered to be a homogenous material. It is the same thing throughout and doesn't need a binder to connect pieces of itself together. Aluminum would be considered the same. Yet we expect the acrylic to sound dead and the metal to ring.
All materials will resonate. Even materials that have been constructed of pieces will have a resonant frequency - ie. Tacoma Narrows Bridge. It is the damping qualities of the material or construction that determines how the enclosure will sound. Composites are only as damped as their base materials and that includes the polymer used to hold it together.
Wood (whether it is in boards, ply layers, fibers or chips) is actually a well damped material. MDF will have a sound because the particles are small enough to create a fairly homogenous material after bonding. The problem with boards is that they are quite strong along the grain. Although the natural bond between the tree cells is not that strong the cell walls are very, very strong and overlap to create the structural properties we all enjoy from lumber. It is this strength that makes raw wood resonate more easily, but only along that one direction.
Plywood will be compromise sound between raw wood and MDF. It is made of sheet of raw wood with the grain structure intact. It also uses formadehyde based glues to bond the sheets in a cross-grain pattern to provide strength in two directions. In very thick grades of softwood, it would be very strong and very damped. But it is expensive and I suspect that is why most mfg do not use it.
🙂ensen.
Hand Selected Ponderosa Pine from the Northwest, the best wood for the job .......
Paul,
One of my first speakers were made from bee hive boxes that I nicked from the old mans garage when he was not looking........
I screwed a chipboard panel front and rear, and mounted a Foster 12" 3 way setup - sealed infinite bafle.
With the right amount (a fair bit really) of internal damping (fibreglass ceiling batts), these things really cranked and were in demand for heaps of parties back in my younger days.
These $15.00 instant boxes are available easily as kits, are precision cut and require minimal finishing.
The handhold cutouts are really handy when loading into and out of parties but the panels can be turned inside out.
Real wood panels do not have to sound bad, and these ones certainly didn't.
Eric.
Paul,
One of my first speakers were made from bee hive boxes that I nicked from the old mans garage when he was not looking........
I screwed a chipboard panel front and rear, and mounted a Foster 12" 3 way setup - sealed infinite bafle.
With the right amount (a fair bit really) of internal damping (fibreglass ceiling batts), these things really cranked and were in demand for heaps of parties back in my younger days.
These $15.00 instant boxes are available easily as kits, are precision cut and require minimal finishing.
The rabetted finger joints are infinitely strong when glued and/or screwed (lots of screws).
The handhold cutouts are really handy when loading into and out of parties but the panels can be turned inside out.
Real wood panels do not have to sound bad, and these ones certainly didn't.
Eric.
Attachments
Attachments
It is truly scary to see what people think a speaker cabinet should be made of! The idea behind a cabinet is to have no resonance of its own. The sound should only come from the surface of the drivers and out of the port, period. Any flexing or vibrating of the sides makes noise that were not in the original sound being played and as such are distortion. It takes a very well damped, dense or rigid material to make a good speaker cabinet. Natural wood is not one of those (when used in realistic thickness). You could use ironwood or ebony! Baltic birch ply is light and rigid but far from the sonic ideal. MDF is dense and semi-damped. Corian composite is good if over an inch thick. I could go on but the idea is to get rid of resonances and with a natural wood it is not easy to do.
Solid verses Engineered Panels
Build your box out of what you wish and brace it well. It will work as long as you work within the constraints of the material. Keep in mind that solid wood shrinks and expands in all directions with the changes of humidity throughout the year. It moves the most across the grain. Different woods will expand at different rates. It's best to build an outside case then afix battens along the interiors and try to float a front and back baffle. Note that if you are building a large box use a good quality baltic birch plywood. If you are building a small box go for solid. On a wider panel say over 12" I would use a real mechanical joint such as a finger joint or dovetail. It will hold things together on the long term. Interior chaulking of the corners will be a must as the box will move and there will be cracks in a year or two. To pick your best wood here are some tips.
Look for staight grain not wildly figured wood. Take a good look at the ends of the boards and pick the ones with the most growth rings. This means that the tree grew slowly and overall you will end up with more stable wood. If at all possible and if you have acess to a place that mills and dries their wood get it 1/4 sawn. This means that the growth rings are perpendicular to the flat surface of the board. This will give you the most stable boards. As a side bar some woods like white oak and cherry will produce some spectacular figure when 1/4 sawn.
All work requires trade offs and I wish you the best.
Mark
Build your box out of what you wish and brace it well. It will work as long as you work within the constraints of the material. Keep in mind that solid wood shrinks and expands in all directions with the changes of humidity throughout the year. It moves the most across the grain. Different woods will expand at different rates. It's best to build an outside case then afix battens along the interiors and try to float a front and back baffle. Note that if you are building a large box use a good quality baltic birch plywood. If you are building a small box go for solid. On a wider panel say over 12" I would use a real mechanical joint such as a finger joint or dovetail. It will hold things together on the long term. Interior chaulking of the corners will be a must as the box will move and there will be cracks in a year or two. To pick your best wood here are some tips.
Look for staight grain not wildly figured wood. Take a good look at the ends of the boards and pick the ones with the most growth rings. This means that the tree grew slowly and overall you will end up with more stable wood. If at all possible and if you have acess to a place that mills and dries their wood get it 1/4 sawn. This means that the growth rings are perpendicular to the flat surface of the board. This will give you the most stable boards. As a side bar some woods like white oak and cherry will produce some spectacular figure when 1/4 sawn.
All work requires trade offs and I wish you the best.
Mark
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