Hello all.
I was wondering if anyone could help me with the design for a 3 way sealed loudspeaker. It needs to have a curve +/- 3db from 50Hz to 18Khz, have an 8 ohm nominal impedance, and handle 100W.
Perhaps you could provide me with good reading material and software? I'd rather have the actual modeling equations.
Thanks
-David
I was wondering if anyone could help me with the design for a 3 way sealed loudspeaker. It needs to have a curve +/- 3db from 50Hz to 18Khz, have an 8 ohm nominal impedance, and handle 100W.
Perhaps you could provide me with good reading material and software? I'd rather have the actual modeling equations.
Thanks
-David
Download WinISD (just do a search)
Model the Peerless 850146 in a closed box.
Mid/tweeter? Maybe something safe like the Vifa P13/D27.
Low cost. Pretty much foolproof in a sealed box with that combo.
best of luck.
Mos
Model the Peerless 850146 in a closed box.
Mid/tweeter? Maybe something safe like the Vifa P13/D27.
Low cost. Pretty much foolproof in a sealed box with that combo.
best of luck.
Mos
Peerless 146 sealed box approx 66 litres plays very low in room with useful output below 30 Hz. Active xover it if poss. I have sounds wonderful. Only downside is that xovered at 300hz does not match detail on a W15cy001 lowering xover to 150hz gave a more detailed sound. Getting the Excel 10" would solve this but has less xmax so not as good at just bass. But with a p13/d27 combo instead of a w15/ssd2905/95 your not going to run into trouble.
Appart from going subwoof your not going to find a better bass speaker, not unless someone can point me in the direction of a better speaker around the same price with better specs. I know about the 727, but from what ive heard it doesnt bottom out as gracefully as the 146.
The vifa mid/bass is also very good easy to work with.
Appart from going subwoof your not going to find a better bass speaker, not unless someone can point me in the direction of a better speaker around the same price with better specs. I know about the 727, but from what ive heard it doesnt bottom out as gracefully as the 146.
The vifa mid/bass is also very good easy to work with.
Hi 5th
Two questions:
How much excursion are you getting from that 146 in 66ls at higher power levels?
Did you have to mess around with the damping a lot and what did you end up with?
Mos
Two questions:
How much excursion are you getting from that 146 in 66ls at higher power levels?
Did you have to mess around with the damping a lot and what did you end up with?
Mos
I am also planning CSX 10" in a sealed 60L cabinette with XO 150Hz...(active) but I do have same concern regarding cone excursion at high power levels - what is your experince 5th element ? Do you use subsonic filter ?
LageB
LageB
dih1118 said:
try this...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19796
also why are you concerned with a 3way. 3 way XOs are more diffcult to get right. i wold look at a 2.5 way. better still a push push 2.5 way using say 2 6-7" woofers and a nice 1". the 2 woofers could then be in a TL. dave (planet 10) got me addicted to this concept. now i consider it to be the best simple sytem one can build. only thing is that the boxes are usually too large for rear channels.
Thank you everyone for all of your suggestions. Sorry, but the design will be a 3 way sealed enclosure.
Do you have any recommendations for a cheaper setup the Peerless/Vifa/Vifa? I was trying to keep the speakers under $100 per enclosure.
Also, does anyone one have any suggestions for the crossover points and type? I was thinking about using 3rd order filters, but I've been reading that the filter with the highest slope may not be the optimal solution.
Thanks
Do you have any recommendations for a cheaper setup the Peerless/Vifa/Vifa? I was trying to keep the speakers under $100 per enclosure.
Also, does anyone one have any suggestions for the crossover points and type? I was thinking about using 3rd order filters, but I've been reading that the filter with the highest slope may not be the optimal solution.
Thanks
dont limit yourself.
1. 3 ways is not nesscarily better than 2 way or 2.5 way or 4 way
2. Why 3rd order XOs? The XO depends on the drivers involved
look at the solution not a particular technology
1. 3 ways is not nesscarily better than 2 way or 2.5 way or 4 way
2. Why 3rd order XOs? The XO depends on the drivers involved
look at the solution not a particular technology
3 way is what I want do, and is the design I'm interested in. Is their an easier and better way - probably. But I want to do a 3 way enclosure.
Could you point me to a website that will help determine the proper order and cutoff frequency for the crossover?
Could you point me to a website that will help determine the proper order and cutoff frequency for the crossover?
ok 3 way it is. why 3rd order? any particular reason for that too?
if i were you and wer working on a 3 way i'd do the follow:
first find a good driver that can operate from 300-3000Hz. this way you take the most advantage of the 3 way design and have a single good driver that covers the most ciritical range. Human ears are very sensitive to changes in this area.
also with a driver that can handle a decade your XO freq are placed far enough apart so as not to cause interference.
given your budget i'd stick to paper cone drivers say $20 for the tweeter, $30 for the mid and $50 for the woofer. this usually means you'd have a 8" woofer, 4" mid and 1" tweeter. I dont know the prices but one place i'd look is the VIfa TC series or Logic stuff they are usuauly good value for money and easy to XO too. data on these can be found here
http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/dataover/tc.htm
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?WebPage_ID=121
http://www.speakercity.com/vifa/dataover/tc.htm
$100 per side for the drivers. I guess your XO and box would cost you another $100 each at least without finishing. I used to buy boxes from woodstyle when i lived in the US.
if i were you and wer working on a 3 way i'd do the follow:
first find a good driver that can operate from 300-3000Hz. this way you take the most advantage of the 3 way design and have a single good driver that covers the most ciritical range. Human ears are very sensitive to changes in this area.
also with a driver that can handle a decade your XO freq are placed far enough apart so as not to cause interference.
given your budget i'd stick to paper cone drivers say $20 for the tweeter, $30 for the mid and $50 for the woofer. this usually means you'd have a 8" woofer, 4" mid and 1" tweeter. I dont know the prices but one place i'd look is the VIfa TC series or Logic stuff they are usuauly good value for money and easy to XO too. data on these can be found here
http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/dataover/tc.htm
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?WebPage_ID=121
http://www.speakercity.com/vifa/dataover/tc.htm
$100 per side for the drivers. I guess your XO and box would cost you another $100 each at least without finishing. I used to buy boxes from woodstyle when i lived in the US.
ok here is a quick and dirty solution....
start with the vifa M10 midrange it is a good wide band mid that can be run from 300-3k wihtout musht of a problem and you should be able to manage with a XO that rolls of 9-12db/octave on either side $27 at speaker city
add a M21 paper cone woofer with a Q around 0.3 and a Fs of 028Hz it can operate safely in a variety of boxes (I prefer sealed but you can try a TL if you like). $50 at speaker city
add a D27TG 05 at 2.5k/12db or a D19SD at 3.5k/12db for $18 or if $4 makes a difference then the D20TD would also work above 3.5k/12db.
that totals to $105 ($101 with the D20). I have not heard the D20 and have only heard the TC19. However after my experience with teh 9900 I have a fondess for the type of wave guides found on the D20.
there are other options ut this is one that is fast. BTW I have no financial or emotional or otherwise bond with parts express, speaker city or any other person in this business incl vifa/d-s-t. i found parts express and speaker city via a google search and have never done any business with either of them.
start with the vifa M10 midrange it is a good wide band mid that can be run from 300-3k wihtout musht of a problem and you should be able to manage with a XO that rolls of 9-12db/octave on either side $27 at speaker city
add a M21 paper cone woofer with a Q around 0.3 and a Fs of 028Hz it can operate safely in a variety of boxes (I prefer sealed but you can try a TL if you like). $50 at speaker city
add a D27TG 05 at 2.5k/12db or a D19SD at 3.5k/12db for $18 or if $4 makes a difference then the D20TD would also work above 3.5k/12db.
that totals to $105 ($101 with the D20). I have not heard the D20 and have only heard the TC19. However after my experience with teh 9900 I have a fondess for the type of wave guides found on the D20.
there are other options ut this is one that is fast. BTW I have no financial or emotional or otherwise bond with parts express, speaker city or any other person in this business incl vifa/d-s-t. i found parts express and speaker city via a google search and have never done any business with either of them.
dih1118 said:
Hi,
I am new to this board, but I have built a speaker that would probably be just what you are looking for. This was already designed by a fellow DIYer who spent a lot of time and attention on the crossover. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the sound. Here is the link and you can e-mail me with any questions you might have.
John
http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/Lyra/lyramain.htm
Thanks for all the help guys.
There was no paticular reason for a 3rd order filter, I just thought that would be a good compromise between performance, complexity, and cost.
But I don't know much, so I was looking for suggestions.
There was no paticular reason for a 3rd order filter, I just thought that would be a good compromise between performance, complexity, and cost.
But I don't know much, so I was looking for suggestions.
Sorry about not responding earlier I completely forgot that Id posted here
Anyway here goes, for the money the CSX has the biggest or close to biggest xmax your going to achieve. I have 80watt amps driving the speakers which someone pointed out that active is about the same as a 240 watt going solo on a passive.
Right well I have not run into any problems with the drivers as far as excusion goes the mid/treb usually craps out (amp clipping) before the bass. This is at very high loudness, this was under a test to see if the amp cooling was sufficient. So I played something with lots of bass with lots of midrange power. I had to wear eardeffenders to stop my ears hurting. I never use it for hometheatre, so cant comment on that. But if any of you have watched the
5th element 🙂 (great film wonder where I got my name from) with the diva dance blue woman with tendrals when leeloo goes ape s**t on the mangalores anyway.... when the fast bit starts just before the soprano (Inva Mulla Tchako) opens her mouth there is a deep thud, this has never caused any problems at very high levels.
As to the sub sonic filter I never hit the drivers with anything sub sonic. But are not sealed cabinets imune?? cone flap an' all with vinyl never a prob with sealed i thought.
Anyway here goes, for the money the CSX has the biggest or close to biggest xmax your going to achieve. I have 80watt amps driving the speakers which someone pointed out that active is about the same as a 240 watt going solo on a passive.
Right well I have not run into any problems with the drivers as far as excusion goes the mid/treb usually craps out (amp clipping) before the bass. This is at very high loudness, this was under a test to see if the amp cooling was sufficient. So I played something with lots of bass with lots of midrange power. I had to wear eardeffenders to stop my ears hurting. I never use it for hometheatre, so cant comment on that. But if any of you have watched the
5th element 🙂 (great film wonder where I got my name from) with the diva dance blue woman with tendrals when leeloo goes ape s**t on the mangalores anyway.... when the fast bit starts just before the soprano (Inva Mulla Tchako) opens her mouth there is a deep thud, this has never caused any problems at very high levels.
As to the sub sonic filter I never hit the drivers with anything sub sonic. But are not sealed cabinets imune?? cone flap an' all with vinyl never a prob with sealed i thought.
🙂 itsa itsa itsa itsa no,no,no,no,no,no cause if it was a bomb..... anyway sad me I could quote all day, back to reality
I get my drivers from Wilmslow-audio.co.uk
Having looked at thier site just then I realise that Im remembering the base price no VAT at £51 and then there is shipping of £8. Nevertheless they are really good drivers. I hadnt seen the limit of $100 per enclosure 🙁 That'll teach me to read post when im tired.
In the UK I find it very difficult to make things as cheaply as you guys in the states can manage. $100 wouldnt have made me the audax speaks i made on the cheap, not the caps and coils mind but these were only 1st order electric.
I would go for what has already been recommended by others here, and if you want to save and buy some better drivers then by all means do. Altho if it is a first project then id go cheaper first.
You could also try ebay ive just bought four drive units two vifa tweets and two vifa midbass for approx £45. The two mid bass new from wimslow would have cost about £80.
Hope it all works out well
Matt
What you all screamin for!... every five minutes theres a bomb or somthing. Im outta here Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I get my drivers from Wilmslow-audio.co.uk
Having looked at thier site just then I realise that Im remembering the base price no VAT at £51 and then there is shipping of £8. Nevertheless they are really good drivers. I hadnt seen the limit of $100 per enclosure 🙁 That'll teach me to read post when im tired.
In the UK I find it very difficult to make things as cheaply as you guys in the states can manage. $100 wouldnt have made me the audax speaks i made on the cheap, not the caps and coils mind but these were only 1st order electric.
I would go for what has already been recommended by others here, and if you want to save and buy some better drivers then by all means do. Altho if it is a first project then id go cheaper first.
You could also try ebay ive just bought four drive units two vifa tweets and two vifa midbass for approx £45. The two mid bass new from wimslow would have cost about £80.
Hope it all works out well
Matt
What you all screamin for!... every five minutes theres a bomb or somthing. Im outta here Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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