Konnichiwa,
I think we best move this topic out form the attempts to control CD Rom drives with PIC's and using their Digital Outputs....
I posted about this "bare bones" PC/Micro-HiFi system from MSI:
http://www.jjmb.nl/content/content.php?Name=MSI-MEGA
Discounted this Box comes in in the Sub US$ 300 region, a bit more dear in europe due to Vat and other taxes. Another $ 300 get you the CPU, Memory and a basic size Hard Drive + DVD/CD ROM Drive. If you want to have a copy machine which can work as digital music server etc add around $ 600 - 1000 for suitable optical writers and a whopping big 160GB or larger drive.
I checked some tests and yes, the thing does appear to be pretty quiet and eminently suitable for all sorts of mischief.
So, lets band together for all those who do not wish to homebrew a PIC controller but instead wish to have something that can sit in the Audio Rack, behave decently and provide us with a wide range of transport options.
I think we need input on three fronts:
1) Audio - what are the best (sound quality/tweakability) Sound Cards and also, are there any affordable internal or external digital interfaces (AES/EBU or similar digital output formats) that accept an external clock generator and use either USB or PCI?
2) Video - are there any nice and affordable "all-in-one" Wonders for TV/Video in and TV/Video out that use 1 AGP slot?
3) Software - how about playing SACD (all other format should be easy)? Any interesting Media Control center software that rund CD Audio asyncronous in DAE mode without many errors (Winamp seems to do)? Which(R) Operating System, windoze, linux or custom?
Sayonara
I think we best move this topic out form the attempts to control CD Rom drives with PIC's and using their Digital Outputs....
I posted about this "bare bones" PC/Micro-HiFi system from MSI:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.jjmb.nl/content/content.php?Name=MSI-MEGA
Discounted this Box comes in in the Sub US$ 300 region, a bit more dear in europe due to Vat and other taxes. Another $ 300 get you the CPU, Memory and a basic size Hard Drive + DVD/CD ROM Drive. If you want to have a copy machine which can work as digital music server etc add around $ 600 - 1000 for suitable optical writers and a whopping big 160GB or larger drive.
I checked some tests and yes, the thing does appear to be pretty quiet and eminently suitable for all sorts of mischief.
So, lets band together for all those who do not wish to homebrew a PIC controller but instead wish to have something that can sit in the Audio Rack, behave decently and provide us with a wide range of transport options.
I think we need input on three fronts:
1) Audio - what are the best (sound quality/tweakability) Sound Cards and also, are there any affordable internal or external digital interfaces (AES/EBU or similar digital output formats) that accept an external clock generator and use either USB or PCI?
2) Video - are there any nice and affordable "all-in-one" Wonders for TV/Video in and TV/Video out that use 1 AGP slot?
3) Software - how about playing SACD (all other format should be easy)? Any interesting Media Control center software that rund CD Audio asyncronous in DAE mode without many errors (Winamp seems to do)? Which(R) Operating System, windoze, linux or custom?
Sayonara
Well, here's my thoughts:
I think the best option is windows xp operating system simply because the amount of programs available (both commercial and free/GNU) and the driver support.
With directshow filters even commercial software (such as powerDVD) can be customized. ZoomPlayer is also an option since it's really built around filters and has support for customizing the filter graph.
Anyone has any idea of how to play dvd-audio except using audigy 2 and creatives software?
As far as I can reacall, m-audio sound cards has showed to perform very well in tests, and the revoulution 7.1 seems very good in my opinion.
As for the other hardware, this is what I've chosen:
1) Mini-itx motherboard, low power consumption, silent operation. For DVD/DivX playback a M-10000 is needed which utilises a silent fan, if only music playback is needed then a better option is the ME-6000 which is completely fanless.
2) Toroid based PSU. If one don't want to mess around and build one a 55w transformer/dc-dc board can be bought.
3) Seagate Barracuda HDD, really quiet if compared to other HDD's.
4) Slimline optical drive, if a 55w psu is used, otherwise a pioneer slot-in dvd rom.
This means that the only parts moving is the HDD, dvd and possibly the cpu fan. With some bitumen padding I believe that operation can be really silent.
I've ordered my parts now so sometime in the next two weaks I think that I'll have something up and running.
The chassis will be made in the same way as my amp chassis and pictures can be seen on my homepage . I also have more info on the psu there.
I think the best option is windows xp operating system simply because the amount of programs available (both commercial and free/GNU) and the driver support.
With directshow filters even commercial software (such as powerDVD) can be customized. ZoomPlayer is also an option since it's really built around filters and has support for customizing the filter graph.
Anyone has any idea of how to play dvd-audio except using audigy 2 and creatives software?
As far as I can reacall, m-audio sound cards has showed to perform very well in tests, and the revoulution 7.1 seems very good in my opinion.
As for the other hardware, this is what I've chosen:
1) Mini-itx motherboard, low power consumption, silent operation. For DVD/DivX playback a M-10000 is needed which utilises a silent fan, if only music playback is needed then a better option is the ME-6000 which is completely fanless.
2) Toroid based PSU. If one don't want to mess around and build one a 55w transformer/dc-dc board can be bought.
3) Seagate Barracuda HDD, really quiet if compared to other HDD's.
4) Slimline optical drive, if a 55w psu is used, otherwise a pioneer slot-in dvd rom.
This means that the only parts moving is the HDD, dvd and possibly the cpu fan. With some bitumen padding I believe that operation can be really silent.
I've ordered my parts now so sometime in the next two weaks I think that I'll have something up and running.
The chassis will be made in the same way as my amp chassis and pictures can be seen on my homepage . I also have more info on the psu there.
Software (not operating system) seems to me a major issue.
Consider: You have stored 1000CD's. How to search them for the album / track name / artist with limited keys? How to display the findings using a small display?
Are the free Applications available adequate? Or does someone have to structure a database?
Cheers,
Consider: You have stored 1000CD's. How to search them for the album / track name / artist with limited keys? How to display the findings using a small display?
Are the free Applications available adequate? Or does someone have to structure a database?
Cheers,
Home Theatre PC
Check out this forum dedicated to this topic:
AVS HTPC Forum
I have written a music jukebox application for a whole home audio system using a touchscreen front end which communicates to a central Windows audio Server (SQL Server music database). A screenshot can be found here:
Client Server Jukebox
Regards,
Dean
Check out this forum dedicated to this topic:
AVS HTPC Forum
I have written a music jukebox application for a whole home audio system using a touchscreen front end which communicates to a central Windows audio Server (SQL Server music database). A screenshot can be found here:
Client Server Jukebox
Regards,
Dean
Hi Dean,
That's a serious app you've written.😉 I couldn't find your reply on that forum to the question of whether you'd "share" it.
Perhaps you need some return for the effort.
What gives?
Cheers,
That's a serious app you've written.😉 I couldn't find your reply on that forum to the question of whether you'd "share" it.
Perhaps you need some return for the effort.
What gives?
Cheers,
To answer Thorsten's initial questions quickly:
1. Lynx Two.
2. Radeon makes the "All-in-Wonder" series cards, but, if you're going to build a full-size computer using a standard ATX mobo, why not get a separate capture card (PCI slot) for $50 and a nice Radeon 9600 or 9800 (AGP slot) with a Zalman heatsink instead of the GPU fan that comes stock on these cards? (if you are planning to use a small form factor mobo, like those in the Shuttle PC's, and PCI slots are limited, it's a different story). If you have a TV capable of HDTV (1080i or greater) most likely it's also worthwhile to get the HDTV adapter ATI puts out.
3. Unless you have a Creative Audigy soundcard, you can't do DVD-Audio on the PC. No solution currently exists for SACD. Windows is, IMO, the only game on the block right now, for hardware compatibility and the number of HTPC software programs.
Longer answer (and some rambling bc work is boring today):
For CD ripping & cataloging (and then some): Media Center 9 (http://www.musicex.com/mediacenter/) Use MC9 to rip CDs using Monkey's Audio lossless compression. Be sure to set it to digital secure mode before ripping. Another option (though I don't think it's any more accurate than MC9 in digital secure mode, because they are both bit-perfect) is Exact Audio Copy. EAC can be used to rip and then encode into Monkey's Audio. The final file can then be imported by MC9, but file tagging is a royal pain in the **** here, and I don't think you gain anything over ripping it in MC9 in digital secure mode. Tagging when ripping in MC9 is automatic.
Another interesting playback program is foobar2000, available at http://www.foobar2000.org/
MainLobby and MusicLobby - http://www.webpromotion.com/cinemar/mainlobby.html will allow you to control the media jukebox with another computer (maybe a tablet, like the ProGear from Sonic Blue - www.progear-repair.com) or, soon, you'll be able to control it with a PDA running PocketPC. Also, Netremote (www.netremote.org) and myHTPC provide similar functionality.
It's expensive, but the LynxTwo soundcard rivals high-end stand-alone DACs and has been declared to be the best soundcard available by a number of objective, independent third party tests. It also provides an AES3 output, and, with an optional daughtercard (the AES16), will provide up to 16 channels of AES3 - www.lynxstudio.com .
To make your media jukebox look like the rest of your gear, you might look into the Ahanix DVine 5 HTPC case - http://www.colorcase.com/exoticpchtpccase.html .
Silenx and Nexus offer extremely quiet PSU's and the 80mm Pabst case fan is rated at 12dB (this rate is most likely an exaggeration, but not by much). Zalman also makes silent CPU coolers. Zalman also offers a GPU cooler for graphics cards that come with fans. More info at http://www.quietpcusa.com/ and www.endpcnoise.com .
Finally, there's a freeware program at http://freshmeat.net/projects/drc/?topic_id=114 that does digital room correction, and supposedly does an excellent job of it.
On the Linux side of the fence, BruteFIR can be used to implement crossover filters.
I've been running an htpc for about 18 months now. I started out being very concerned about noise / silent computing, then I just shoved the PC in the closet and moved on to more important things. I have a LynxTwo B (2 inputs and 6 outputs). I'm using the AES3 out to an Anthem AVM-20 right now.
I recently bought a copy of MATLAB and some of the associated accoutrements (DSP Blockset & Signal Processing Toolbox). I've no idea how to use it, but I'm hoping I'll figure it out some day. If so, I'd like to design and implement Vanderkooy crossover filters and room correction, something like the DRC program does. If I can, I'll implement them either with the CPU or on a PCI DSP board I can keep in the computer, buy one or two more LynxTwo's and run them straight into my amps. Otherwise, I'll put them on a separate DSP board or two, stick it in a box and put it after the Anthem (so I can use the Anthem essentially as a Dolby / surround decoder and signal router) and just before the amps. Does anyone know of a good Audio DSP discussion board???
brad
1. Lynx Two.
2. Radeon makes the "All-in-Wonder" series cards, but, if you're going to build a full-size computer using a standard ATX mobo, why not get a separate capture card (PCI slot) for $50 and a nice Radeon 9600 or 9800 (AGP slot) with a Zalman heatsink instead of the GPU fan that comes stock on these cards? (if you are planning to use a small form factor mobo, like those in the Shuttle PC's, and PCI slots are limited, it's a different story). If you have a TV capable of HDTV (1080i or greater) most likely it's also worthwhile to get the HDTV adapter ATI puts out.
3. Unless you have a Creative Audigy soundcard, you can't do DVD-Audio on the PC. No solution currently exists for SACD. Windows is, IMO, the only game on the block right now, for hardware compatibility and the number of HTPC software programs.
Longer answer (and some rambling bc work is boring today):
For CD ripping & cataloging (and then some): Media Center 9 (http://www.musicex.com/mediacenter/) Use MC9 to rip CDs using Monkey's Audio lossless compression. Be sure to set it to digital secure mode before ripping. Another option (though I don't think it's any more accurate than MC9 in digital secure mode, because they are both bit-perfect) is Exact Audio Copy. EAC can be used to rip and then encode into Monkey's Audio. The final file can then be imported by MC9, but file tagging is a royal pain in the **** here, and I don't think you gain anything over ripping it in MC9 in digital secure mode. Tagging when ripping in MC9 is automatic.
Another interesting playback program is foobar2000, available at http://www.foobar2000.org/
MainLobby and MusicLobby - http://www.webpromotion.com/cinemar/mainlobby.html will allow you to control the media jukebox with another computer (maybe a tablet, like the ProGear from Sonic Blue - www.progear-repair.com) or, soon, you'll be able to control it with a PDA running PocketPC. Also, Netremote (www.netremote.org) and myHTPC provide similar functionality.
It's expensive, but the LynxTwo soundcard rivals high-end stand-alone DACs and has been declared to be the best soundcard available by a number of objective, independent third party tests. It also provides an AES3 output, and, with an optional daughtercard (the AES16), will provide up to 16 channels of AES3 - www.lynxstudio.com .
To make your media jukebox look like the rest of your gear, you might look into the Ahanix DVine 5 HTPC case - http://www.colorcase.com/exoticpchtpccase.html .
Silenx and Nexus offer extremely quiet PSU's and the 80mm Pabst case fan is rated at 12dB (this rate is most likely an exaggeration, but not by much). Zalman also makes silent CPU coolers. Zalman also offers a GPU cooler for graphics cards that come with fans. More info at http://www.quietpcusa.com/ and www.endpcnoise.com .
Finally, there's a freeware program at http://freshmeat.net/projects/drc/?topic_id=114 that does digital room correction, and supposedly does an excellent job of it.
On the Linux side of the fence, BruteFIR can be used to implement crossover filters.
I've been running an htpc for about 18 months now. I started out being very concerned about noise / silent computing, then I just shoved the PC in the closet and moved on to more important things. I have a LynxTwo B (2 inputs and 6 outputs). I'm using the AES3 out to an Anthem AVM-20 right now.
I recently bought a copy of MATLAB and some of the associated accoutrements (DSP Blockset & Signal Processing Toolbox). I've no idea how to use it, but I'm hoping I'll figure it out some day. If so, I'd like to design and implement Vanderkooy crossover filters and room correction, something like the DRC program does. If I can, I'll implement them either with the CPU or on a PCI DSP board I can keep in the computer, buy one or two more LynxTwo's and run them straight into my amps. Otherwise, I'll put them on a separate DSP board or two, stick it in a box and put it after the Anthem (so I can use the Anthem essentially as a Dolby / surround decoder and signal router) and just before the amps. Does anyone know of a good Audio DSP discussion board???
brad
I'm almost into the same thing with the dsp approach since I plan to build open baffle speakers and equalise them in software.
I haven't found a good forum yet but there's the Music dsp mailing list and music dsp archive..
My first try to implement eq is with a directshow filter and rbj cookbook filter algorithms. I use Matlab in my school work so as soon as I have a filter that manages to intercept the signal and alter it I move to matlab to design the actual filter code and then bring it to c++.
Anders
I haven't found a good forum yet but there's the Music dsp mailing list and music dsp archive..
My first try to implement eq is with a directshow filter and rbj cookbook filter algorithms. I use Matlab in my school work so as soon as I have a filter that manages to intercept the signal and alter it I move to matlab to design the actual filter code and then bring it to c++.
Anders
One link I forgot to add in my last post:
http://www.mediapc.org/
Two projects stemming from the avsforum / home theater personal computers board (one hardware and one software) that seek to turn the htpc into a high-end pre-amp / processor. My understanding is that the project is a bit sluggish right now and could really use the help of some people with hardware skills...
http://www.mediapc.org/
Two projects stemming from the avsforum / home theater personal computers board (one hardware and one software) that seek to turn the htpc into a high-end pre-amp / processor. My understanding is that the project is a bit sluggish right now and could really use the help of some people with hardware skills...
Client Server jukebox
John,
I am willing to share the code for non commercial uses. I have put a fair amount of work into this system to reach my vision of having all my music available in every room of the house using a small form factor touchscreen. This system is pretty unique as I have not seen anything equivalent, and relies on distribution of an 8 output soundcard via an 8 to 32 channel switch matrix to 16 rooms around the house using balanced audio over shielded twisted pair. Each room has a local gainclone amplifier connected to the RS-232 port of the touchscreen to control volume and mute. Software & hardware all DIY 🙂
The above is a bit OT, so email me if you need further info. I also have plans for a HTPC similar to what is being described by others in the above posts using the hardware & software platform already developed for the whole home jukebox. Having time to complete this project is the only problem, but I think it has great potential.
Regards,
Dean
John,
I am willing to share the code for non commercial uses. I have put a fair amount of work into this system to reach my vision of having all my music available in every room of the house using a small form factor touchscreen. This system is pretty unique as I have not seen anything equivalent, and relies on distribution of an 8 output soundcard via an 8 to 32 channel switch matrix to 16 rooms around the house using balanced audio over shielded twisted pair. Each room has a local gainclone amplifier connected to the RS-232 port of the touchscreen to control volume and mute. Software & hardware all DIY 🙂
The above is a bit OT, so email me if you need further info. I also have plans for a HTPC similar to what is being described by others in the above posts using the hardware & software platform already developed for the whole home jukebox. Having time to complete this project is the only problem, but I think it has great potential.
Regards,
Dean
deandob, if you could email me the code, or even better if you had a precompiled version I would greatly appreciate it. I"m in the process of trying to get this junk figured out, but as I'm starting school again in a couple of weeks, I probably won't have time to play with code for quite some time. I would really like to see what you've done though.
Of coure we could take a small form factor board and stick a good souncard in it like the m-audio cards or equal. Via on the other hand is trying to cram good audio sound on a mini-itx board. A prototype was shown in march this year
Quote from mini-itx.com:
In the third of our CeBIT show pictorials, we bring you images of VIA's prototype for an EPIA M based Mini-ITX board featuring the Envy24PT Audio Controller - the VT6026. The board dispenses with Firewire connectors and instead has two optical TOS-Link connectors and additional 3.5mm analogue audio connectors for high quality 24bit/96Khz 7.1 surround sound.
quote end
the relevant link to via:
http://www.viatech.com/en/multimedia/envy24pt.jsp
unforunately I cannot find on their website when the board will be available. Maybe somneone has a clue
the envy24ht chip is used in the m-audio revolution 7.1 card
It would be ideal if this could be fitted with disk-on-chip OS to startup the PC and run the remainder of the software from a server (the board has an 100Mb/s connection) The device would not have a harddisk in that case
Maybe it is to soon yet but I'm thinking of such a device to complement the setup I already have.
Probably I will build GC monoblocks to power the audio.
Quote from mini-itx.com:
In the third of our CeBIT show pictorials, we bring you images of VIA's prototype for an EPIA M based Mini-ITX board featuring the Envy24PT Audio Controller - the VT6026. The board dispenses with Firewire connectors and instead has two optical TOS-Link connectors and additional 3.5mm analogue audio connectors for high quality 24bit/96Khz 7.1 surround sound.
quote end
the relevant link to via:
http://www.viatech.com/en/multimedia/envy24pt.jsp
unforunately I cannot find on their website when the board will be available. Maybe somneone has a clue
the envy24ht chip is used in the m-audio revolution 7.1 card
It would be ideal if this could be fitted with disk-on-chip OS to startup the PC and run the remainder of the software from a server (the board has an 100Mb/s connection) The device would not have a harddisk in that case
Maybe it is to soon yet but I'm thinking of such a device to complement the setup I already have.
Probably I will build GC monoblocks to power the audio.
www.litepc.com
You can shrink windows 98 to about 60M and boot in less than 2 seconds, using compact flash as a pseudo IDE drive.
You can shrink windows 98 to about 60M and boot in less than 2 seconds, using compact flash as a pseudo IDE drive.
Re: Client Server jukebox
Thanks for the kind offer. Personally I'm not in a position to do anything with this right now - just speculating 😉. Good luck with your ambitious project. Please keep us informed of developments.
Cheers,
Dean,deandob said:
Thanks for the kind offer. Personally I'm not in a position to do anything with this right now - just speculating 😉. Good luck with your ambitious project. Please keep us informed of developments.
Cheers,
agent.5 said:
Now we are talking!
I've looked at 98lite before but that was a while ago and they didn't had 98micro at that time.
I'l drop them an e-mail
Maybe off-topic but I heard this system ( and some equivalents )recently and it sounded not good, certainly at higher volumes.
Looks nice but I wouldn't see this as a serious replacement for a standalone cdplayer despite all the extra possibilities it gives.
Looks nice but I wouldn't see this as a serious replacement for a standalone cdplayer despite all the extra possibilities it gives.
I never had a chance to listen to it, but I had the same thoughts whilst following this thread. I assume one would have to totally rebuild the thing, except the pretty nice looking facia, in order to make fanatics happy. In that case it's imho a pretty expensive toy. But who am I.
Regards
frenzic
Regards
frenzic
jean-paul said:
Jean-paul,
are you reffering to the system in the original first post or to the mini-itx board?
I must admit that I'm a litlle doubtfull whether a PC can ever sound as good as a decent standalone player but for the low cost and the flexibility that such a mini-itx box would provide I think I'm willing to give it a try
That is, if they introduce the board with the envy24PT or rather the HT facilities that was shown on the cebit. (multichannel 24/96)
One would only need a board, a compactflash card with ide connector, win 98micro, a decent cd rom drive (or DVD drive), a very tiny powersupply and a very tiny case to be in businnes.
I dropped Via an e-mail today with a question whether the board was anywere near production although I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer
edit: and some ram of course
as an infant in all things diyaudio I might be falling off the cliff with this one but it seems to me that most all of us have old hardware laying around . . . P1's P2's you know the high end stuff of days gone ... anyway, I would be interested in resurecting my old hardware into a quiet server/pc. the thought process goes a bit like this . . . using some of the older HD that don't spin @10k to store the music in a high bit rate mp3/wma . . . I know you get home with a CD you don't want to wait to spool the entire CD in the hard drive, so (blue sky here!) i wonder if there is a player/ program to make good use of RAMdrive available to playback through once the first song is spooled in the RAM without having to wait to burn to harddrive.
the key ingredient in getting high quality is getting the sound out the PC - here's where I get stuck, sure sound cards come to mind but what about digital out for a DAC?
I would not mind transfering my entire collection to harddrive (poss. jukebox playback) but there is a lot to learn and solve. any thoughts!?
You can already get 16 channels of 24/192 AES3:
http://www.lynxstudio.com/pr200307.html
Running Linux, you can use a program like BruteFIR to implement filters of your own design (think linear phase high order crossovers).
Another program, DRC, provides digital room correction a la Tact and runs on both PC and Linux (using a program with a convolver).
If you're using a Soundblaster card and Klipsch speakers on your old P1, it's no wonder you're disappointed with computer audio.
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