I've been thinking about using focal 6W4311's in a 3way system.
I was planning to Xover at 300Hz and 3000 Hz (possibly using a notch filter at 3000 to tame the peak, and use the drivers natural roll off).
I searched the forum and found a few people saying that focal W cone drivers were hard to cross over (specifically the Auidom 6WM). Am I likely to run into problems with this beast? (It'll be my first foray into xover design, up till now I have only used "stock" xovers purchased from electronics stores).
The woofers I have at present, and which I intend to use in the new project are Vifa 10" M26WR-09-08's.
I haven't finally decided on a tweeter, but I'm thinking a morel, either mdt30, mdt33, or supreme 110, depending on how much money I eventually decide to spend.
I've based most of my decisions on info off LDSG, and wanted something that would handle a reasonable amount of power, and would at least match the sensitivity of the Vifa woofers (which aren't that efficient). Finally I also may at some point wish to venture into home theater, and the focal's have a shielded version, as do some of the morel tweeters (which would allow me to match pretty closely for the center speaker).
Am I completely insane?
I was planning to Xover at 300Hz and 3000 Hz (possibly using a notch filter at 3000 to tame the peak, and use the drivers natural roll off).
I searched the forum and found a few people saying that focal W cone drivers were hard to cross over (specifically the Auidom 6WM). Am I likely to run into problems with this beast? (It'll be my first foray into xover design, up till now I have only used "stock" xovers purchased from electronics stores).
The woofers I have at present, and which I intend to use in the new project are Vifa 10" M26WR-09-08's.
I haven't finally decided on a tweeter, but I'm thinking a morel, either mdt30, mdt33, or supreme 110, depending on how much money I eventually decide to spend.
I've based most of my decisions on info off LDSG, and wanted something that would handle a reasonable amount of power, and would at least match the sensitivity of the Vifa woofers (which aren't that efficient). Finally I also may at some point wish to venture into home theater, and the focal's have a shielded version, as do some of the morel tweeters (which would allow me to match pretty closely for the center speaker).
Am I completely insane?
Hmm, as for a first foray into xover design.
I would pick a mid which is easy to work with or go and buy some measuring equipment & xover design software.
Not saying it cant be done, but it just gets harder with more exotic drivers.
After saying all that the Vifa 10" is a really good choice,
as for the tweeter I would save the money & use the Morel MDT30, you won't need the efficiency of the 33 & the money you save on the 110 could be used elsewhere
For the sake of contradiciting myself, a kevlar (exotic!) driver which looks like it might be really easy to work with is the Monacor SPH165kep - If I can just find somewhere to buy one I would use it!
Others have mentioned a Fostex driver...
Have a look at www.snippets.org/ldsg for some excellent info on drivers.
The quest begins.
I would pick a mid which is easy to work with or go and buy some measuring equipment & xover design software.
Not saying it cant be done, but it just gets harder with more exotic drivers.
After saying all that the Vifa 10" is a really good choice,
as for the tweeter I would save the money & use the Morel MDT30, you won't need the efficiency of the 33 & the money you save on the 110 could be used elsewhere
For the sake of contradiciting myself, a kevlar (exotic!) driver which looks like it might be really easy to work with is the Monacor SPH165kep - If I can just find somewhere to buy one I would use it!
Others have mentioned a Fostex driver...
Have a look at www.snippets.org/ldsg for some excellent info on drivers.
The quest begins.
Thanks for the advice Ap. I've been playing with speaker workshop and had considered buying a high quality mike to do measurements and such (although the lounge room is probably not an ideal environment for testing!). I downloaded a demo version of LSPcad yesterday to see how complicated it all looked (havent looked yet).
What's the worst that could happen if I went with the focals (or something else exotic) and didn't get the xover right? Are they likely to sound awfull, or just not live up to what they should be capable of (but still sound ok)? What sort of complexities are likely? Notch filters in the middle of their range, or is it more a matter of finding the right frequency to cross over at successfully. I'm showing my naivety here......
I know what a difference xovers can make from my existing speakers which have had some cheap and nasty ones with electos, and ferite cored coils, and the current ones which use polyester caps for all but the biggest one, and air cored coils. These current xovers won't be suitable for the new project though with 500/3500 xover points they aren't even particularly suitable for the current speakers (in fact neither is my Midrange, a phillips dome, which is currently crossed over around it's resonant freq..... yuckkkkkk).
I'll check out the drivers you mentioned, and I think I'll take your advice on the tweeters too, I had originally thought I would go with the 30's, but had been talking myself into justifying the extra price of the 33's or 110's, better off spending it on high quality components for the xovers.
Also thanks for the positive note on the woofer. It's the one thing I'm reasonably confident on, as I have them already and despite the major shortcommings of the cabinets they are in they still sound good (cabinet resonances at certain freqs aside).
What's the worst that could happen if I went with the focals (or something else exotic) and didn't get the xover right? Are they likely to sound awfull, or just not live up to what they should be capable of (but still sound ok)? What sort of complexities are likely? Notch filters in the middle of their range, or is it more a matter of finding the right frequency to cross over at successfully. I'm showing my naivety here
......I know what a difference xovers can make from my existing speakers which have had some cheap and nasty ones with electos, and ferite cored coils, and the current ones which use polyester caps for all but the biggest one, and air cored coils. These current xovers won't be suitable for the new project though with 500/3500 xover points they aren't even particularly suitable for the current speakers (in fact neither is my Midrange, a phillips dome, which is currently crossed over around it's resonant freq..... yuckkkkkk).
I'll check out the drivers you mentioned, and I think I'll take your advice on the tweeters too, I had originally thought I would go with the 30's, but had been talking myself into justifying the extra price of the 33's or 110's, better off spending it on high quality components for the xovers.
Also thanks for the positive note on the woofer. It's the one thing I'm reasonably confident on, as I have them already and despite the major shortcommings of the cabinets they are in they still sound good (cabinet resonances at certain freqs aside).
The Audio Technology 4H521306 http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/audiotechnology.php3
looks perfect, except for one thing..... the price! at nearly $600aus each it's a tad on the expensive side.
I checked out the monacor on LDSG. Its freq curve looked pretty flat but then I looked at the scale, and it's close to 5db difference in places.
The other driver I was thinking may be worth considering was the peerless 850488.
Just re-read the section on focal on LDSG and now take note of the comment about w cones causing problems with xover design! must have blocked that out originally
looks perfect, except for one thing..... the price! at nearly $600aus each it's a tad on the expensive side.
I checked out the monacor on LDSG. Its freq curve looked pretty flat but then I looked at the scale, and it's close to 5db difference in places.
The other driver I was thinking may be worth considering was the peerless 850488.
Just re-read the section on focal on LDSG and now take note of the comment about w cones causing problems with xover design! must have blocked that out originally
I think the worst that can happen, is they could just sound wrong, not necesarily awful. And without measuring gear it can be hard & furstrating to work out why.
I wouldnt be put off by measuring in a lounge room , provided signal level is kept low you can get pretty good results down to 200hz.
As for notch filters you just have to be careful they don't lower the impedance too much.
I haven t personally worked with the Focal W cones just taking others advice.
I wouldnt be put off by measuring in a lounge room , provided signal level is kept low you can get pretty good results down to 200hz.
As for notch filters you just have to be careful they don't lower the impedance too much.
I haven t personally worked with the Focal W cones just taking others advice.
I guess the other thing is that it could get quite expensive experimenting with crossovers, especially if I don't wind my own coils.
I replaced the philips Dome mids in my current speakers with some cheap polyproylene 5" drivers (about $30aus each) quite a few years ago. The response curves on them looked good, and they should have been ok with the crossovers I had but they sounded absolutely awfull compared to the phillips's. I ended up putting the phillips back in (I thought I had cooked them, but after pulling them apart and cleaning them, they came good).
I think that was basically a problem with the quality (or more acurately lack thereof) of the drivers. I guess I have been thinking that provided I I buy a good quality driver and don't try and go too high or low within its range it should sound ok, but there is no doubt more to it than that.
It's interesting running a sweep on my existing speakers it shows some definite weak points, though actually pinpointing the frequencies where there are problems is pretty difficult so I know what you mean about not having measuring gear (It's easy to see there is a problem but finding it is another matter entirely).
As you said in your first reply "The quest begins"
I replaced the philips Dome mids in my current speakers with some cheap polyproylene 5" drivers (about $30aus each) quite a few years ago. The response curves on them looked good, and they should have been ok with the crossovers I had but they sounded absolutely awfull compared to the phillips's. I ended up putting the phillips back in (I thought I had cooked them, but after pulling them apart and cleaning them, they came good).
I think that was basically a problem with the quality (or more acurately lack thereof) of the drivers. I guess I have been thinking that provided I I buy a good quality driver and don't try and go too high or low within its range it should sound ok, but there is no doubt more to it than that.
It's interesting running a sweep on my existing speakers it shows some definite weak points, though actually pinpointing the frequencies where there are problems is pretty difficult so I know what you mean about not having measuring gear (It's easy to see there is a problem but finding it is another matter entirely).
As you said in your first reply "The quest begins"
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