Look at this amplifier CD-NX200 here - http://www.classd.ltd.uk/home.php?cat=257 it might be what you are looking for. It's not a Class-D amplifier but something different.
Lots of switched on guys on this forum with good technical knowledge and I would be very interested to know what they think about it.
I have recently started using the Hypex modules and was blown away by the quality of the sound, absolutely fantastic, so I am very surprised to hear that in the opinion of one guy on another forum reckons that this amplifier is better than Hypex.
I honestly thought you couldn't get anything better.
If this is in fact true,Hypex has a real problem on their hands. It beats them hands down on price. Compere - CD-NX200 at £32 as against the Hypex at over £100. It's a no-brainer.
CD-NX200 - 200W RMS @ 4Ohms Lateral Mosfet Power Amplifier Module
Price: £32.00 ($ 51.20)
Copied from another forum -
I have now had two Hypex modules and a CD-NX200 module connected to my front channels for the last three days.
Using the Denon as a preamp gives me all the audio and video switching and processing that I need, the 'Hypex 180HG+HxR' and 'Class D NX200' modules plus a 'Hypex SMPS 180' give me the sound I dreamed of, much better than I expectd.
I have swapped the modules about in various configurations with as varied a source as I can muster and have arrived at the following conclusions. These are obviously my conclusions and somebody else may perhaps have arrived at different ones.
The Hypex modules sound great, they hardly generate any heat, even when driven quite hard. They are small very well built and easy to assemble into a system. They arrived in a largish cardboard box that was so light, I thought they had forgotten to put the modules in.
Despite it's name the Class D NX200 module is not a Class D amp. The 'Class D' part is the name of the manufacturer, who do also make Class D amps. It is I am told a class A/B.
It is a similar size to the Hypex but even lighter as it does not have a heavy choke mounted nor any onboard heatsink. It is a little bit more towards the OEM market I think, in that it does not quite have the plug n play features of the Hypex, The soldering iron is needed a bit more.
I was expecting that it would produce quite a lot of heat and would require some serious heatink to dissipate it, however at the levels I use to watch TV or listen to the radio, I was surprised to find that it ran at about the same sort of temperature as the Hypex. Watching a movie or playing music at much higher levels did raise the temperature a bit but I could always hold the Mosfets, even though the were on a very small amount of heat sink.
I have spent quite a few hours trying to decide which sounded the best, a difficult choice.
I have decided that I like the sound of the NX200's slightly more, if I hadn't tried both modules I would have been absolutely delighted with the Hypex, any differences are very slight and very personal.
I am going to build an 8 ch. amp using the NX400 modules and 1000w SMPS that 'Class D' also manufacture, not so much of a factor in my case but the NX200 is about £30 and the NX400 about £36. I am only going to the NX400 as they (Class D) tell me that it is a bit more tolerant of very low ohm speakers, all other specs the same.
__________________
Oldgeezer
Lots of switched on guys on this forum with good technical knowledge and I would be very interested to know what they think about it.
I have recently started using the Hypex modules and was blown away by the quality of the sound, absolutely fantastic, so I am very surprised to hear that in the opinion of one guy on another forum reckons that this amplifier is better than Hypex.
I honestly thought you couldn't get anything better.
If this is in fact true,Hypex has a real problem on their hands. It beats them hands down on price. Compere - CD-NX200 at £32 as against the Hypex at over £100. It's a no-brainer.
CD-NX200 - 200W RMS @ 4Ohms Lateral Mosfet Power Amplifier Module
Price: £32.00 ($ 51.20)
Copied from another forum -
I have now had two Hypex modules and a CD-NX200 module connected to my front channels for the last three days.
Using the Denon as a preamp gives me all the audio and video switching and processing that I need, the 'Hypex 180HG+HxR' and 'Class D NX200' modules plus a 'Hypex SMPS 180' give me the sound I dreamed of, much better than I expectd.
I have swapped the modules about in various configurations with as varied a source as I can muster and have arrived at the following conclusions. These are obviously my conclusions and somebody else may perhaps have arrived at different ones.
The Hypex modules sound great, they hardly generate any heat, even when driven quite hard. They are small very well built and easy to assemble into a system. They arrived in a largish cardboard box that was so light, I thought they had forgotten to put the modules in.
Despite it's name the Class D NX200 module is not a Class D amp. The 'Class D' part is the name of the manufacturer, who do also make Class D amps. It is I am told a class A/B.
It is a similar size to the Hypex but even lighter as it does not have a heavy choke mounted nor any onboard heatsink. It is a little bit more towards the OEM market I think, in that it does not quite have the plug n play features of the Hypex, The soldering iron is needed a bit more.
I was expecting that it would produce quite a lot of heat and would require some serious heatink to dissipate it, however at the levels I use to watch TV or listen to the radio, I was surprised to find that it ran at about the same sort of temperature as the Hypex. Watching a movie or playing music at much higher levels did raise the temperature a bit but I could always hold the Mosfets, even though the were on a very small amount of heat sink.
I have spent quite a few hours trying to decide which sounded the best, a difficult choice.
I have decided that I like the sound of the NX200's slightly more, if I hadn't tried both modules I would have been absolutely delighted with the Hypex, any differences are very slight and very personal.
I am going to build an 8 ch. amp using the NX400 modules and 1000w SMPS that 'Class D' also manufacture, not so much of a factor in my case but the NX200 is about £30 and the NX400 about £36. I am only going to the NX400 as they (Class D) tell me that it is a bit more tolerant of very low ohm speakers, all other specs the same.
__________________
Oldgeezer
Member
Joined 2003
Re: Re: An amplifier better than Hypex but at a third of the price.
I have a Denon AVR-3805 and the sound was absolutely horrible when playing CDs until I added the Hypex amps.
The guy who says he preferred the NX200' has got a Denon 4308. He's added a bit more to his post in which I have included below -
Quote:
Originally Posted by cirrus18 View Post
Glad to hear that you found the Hypex as good as I did and that I am not the only one who thinks so.
At least it's some confirmation that my opinion wasn't just a lot of hot air.
What intrigues me the most, because I thought you wouldn't be able to beat the Hypex, is that you found the NX200' to be that much better.
Would you like to say what the difference was that you thought it was that much better. I would be most interested to know.
If there was so little difference between them as you say, certainly the price would come into it, especially for me, the NX200' at £32 as against the Hypex at more than £100 is a no-brainer.
Quote:
{I have decided that I like the sound of the NX200's slightly more, if I hadn't tried both modules I would have been absolutely delighted with the Hypex, any differences are very slight and very personal.}
To me the NX200 was just a little smoother at the top end, the Hypex was just slightly edgy. Without the side by side comparisons I would not have noticed , and perhaps different speakers might influence that. I am running Jamo Concert series.
Both modules modules really grab hold of the bottom end, I also found that the NX200 has a little more gain, I needed to add 4db to the Hypex to balance.
I bought the Hypex 180HG with HxR modules, with the taxes and shipping they were approx. 220 euros each.
The NX 200 modules are aprox. a fith of the price, they also do a 500w SMPS for about £60 and a 1000w for about £80. As you say - no-brainer.
__________________
Oldgeezer
DcibeL said:
I have a Denon AVR-3805 and the sound was absolutely horrible when playing CDs until I added the Hypex amps.
The guy who says he preferred the NX200' has got a Denon 4308. He's added a bit more to his post in which I have included below -
Quote:
Originally Posted by cirrus18 View Post
Glad to hear that you found the Hypex as good as I did and that I am not the only one who thinks so.
At least it's some confirmation that my opinion wasn't just a lot of hot air.
What intrigues me the most, because I thought you wouldn't be able to beat the Hypex, is that you found the NX200' to be that much better.
Would you like to say what the difference was that you thought it was that much better. I would be most interested to know.
If there was so little difference between them as you say, certainly the price would come into it, especially for me, the NX200' at £32 as against the Hypex at more than £100 is a no-brainer.
Quote:
{I have decided that I like the sound of the NX200's slightly more, if I hadn't tried both modules I would have been absolutely delighted with the Hypex, any differences are very slight and very personal.}
To me the NX200 was just a little smoother at the top end, the Hypex was just slightly edgy. Without the side by side comparisons I would not have noticed , and perhaps different speakers might influence that. I am running Jamo Concert series.
Both modules modules really grab hold of the bottom end, I also found that the NX200 has a little more gain, I needed to add 4db to the Hypex to balance.
I bought the Hypex 180HG with HxR modules, with the taxes and shipping they were approx. 220 euros each.
The NX 200 modules are aprox. a fith of the price, they also do a 500w SMPS for about £60 and a 1000w for about £80. As you say - no-brainer.
__________________
Oldgeezer
Hi cirrus18,
Actually, a valid question. Enthusiasm is fine, but do you have any connection to anyone at class-d ltd uk? Are you getting an preferential deals related to your investigation on these units?
This simply helps our members judge your comments more accurately. In no way am I suggesting you are not simply reporting on what you have found.
The AB amp is probably shifting it's supply voltages up and down as required over a normal output stage. This was seen in the Carver Lightstar series of amplifiers 10 years ago, and in current Sunfire amplifiers. It's a very good technology that gives almost the efficiency of class D, but with the sound quality possible of class A or AB amplifier technology. That amplifier probably sounds much better than a straight class D design.
Just guessing here, not a great deal of info was given. Besides, many of us are techies.
-Chris
Actually, a valid question. Enthusiasm is fine, but do you have any connection to anyone at class-d ltd uk? Are you getting an preferential deals related to your investigation on these units?
This simply helps our members judge your comments more accurately. In no way am I suggesting you are not simply reporting on what you have found.
The AB amp is probably shifting it's supply voltages up and down as required over a normal output stage. This was seen in the Carver Lightstar series of amplifiers 10 years ago, and in current Sunfire amplifiers. It's a very good technology that gives almost the efficiency of class D, but with the sound quality possible of class A or AB amplifier technology. That amplifier probably sounds much better than a straight class D design.
Just guessing here, not a great deal of info was given. Besides, many of us are techies.
-Chris
anatech said:
It seems strange that on this forum there seems to be an unhealthy bias towards Hypex, in so far as that if you mention any other manufacturers, you get jumped on and accused of being in their pay.
Funny isn't it, but when I posted this- http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133639 nobody said a word.
Why wasn't I then accused of being in the pay of Hypex I ask you?
To keep the record straight, I am not connected to anybody and don't get any preferential deals.
I see that classdphile as had his posting removed from here, which was a very good thing.
To criticise and belittle a guy who has gone out, spent quite a lot of money buying two different makes of amplifiers and giving a report on his findings is just not on.
It would be very nice if classdphile put his money where his mouth is, bought these amplifiers, tested them out and gave us an unbiased report on his findings.
.
Can you also post the link to where you're quoting from, it's really not enough to simply say it's from someplace else. That way people can easily see the complete context, like where the gentleman stated he "spent many hours in the 50's winding output transformers for the Williamson amplifers", and he seems to adjust everything using an SPL meter, fifty years later.
They'd also see the massive emphasis he placed on certain words in the following statement, which I think were "slightly", and "very slightly and very personal" :
"{I have decided that I like the sound of the NX200's slightly more, if I hadn't tried both modules I would have been absolutely delighted with the Hypex, any differences are very slight and very personal.}"
Perhaps also they'd be able to weigh all that against his earlier admission that he's simply biased against class d, prior to which he also made the following comment:
"It may be that I am particularly susceptable to the sound of class D amps in a similar way that some people are affected by the rainbow effect on DLP projectors."
Hm, truly a case of golden ears in the golden years.
He also jacked up the gain on the UCD amps by 4dB, using.. old carbon resistors that sat in a shoebox next to the Williamsons? Maybe he took a few windings off the output transformer? Anybody's guess I suppose, but yeah, patching it all into a receiver is questionable enough by itself, it's not like you can troubleshoot nuances with an SPL meter.
As with the classd that's not.. They can't even give those away, much as with any measurements or telling specifications.
I sincerely commend you on your special talent for writing fantastic subject lines, but I subjectively feel the forum is somehow left starved for something, anything, of substance from it.
Have you any measurements, first hand experience, specifications, any actual information at all? Pictures will do as well, they can be informative after all, sometimes.
They'd also see the massive emphasis he placed on certain words in the following statement, which I think were "slightly", and "very slightly and very personal" :
"{I have decided that I like the sound of the NX200's slightly more, if I hadn't tried both modules I would have been absolutely delighted with the Hypex, any differences are very slight and very personal.}"
Perhaps also they'd be able to weigh all that against his earlier admission that he's simply biased against class d, prior to which he also made the following comment:
"It may be that I am particularly susceptable to the sound of class D amps in a similar way that some people are affected by the rainbow effect on DLP projectors."
Hm, truly a case of golden ears in the golden years.
He also jacked up the gain on the UCD amps by 4dB, using.. old carbon resistors that sat in a shoebox next to the Williamsons? Maybe he took a few windings off the output transformer? Anybody's guess I suppose, but yeah, patching it all into a receiver is questionable enough by itself, it's not like you can troubleshoot nuances with an SPL meter.
As with the classd that's not.. They can't even give those away, much as with any measurements or telling specifications.
I sincerely commend you on your special talent for writing fantastic subject lines, but I subjectively feel the forum is somehow left starved for something, anything, of substance from it.
Have you any measurements, first hand experience, specifications, any actual information at all? Pictures will do as well, they can be informative after all, sometimes.
10 of these modules were supposed to be given away to let the amps speak for themselves:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128916&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Unfortunately none of the winners seem to have received their modules yet and its around 6 weeks since the competition finished. It seems so far that the competition may be gathering them more negative press for extremely long wait times and poor communication...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128916&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Unfortunately none of the winners seem to have received their modules yet and its around 6 weeks since the competition finished. It seems so far that the competition may be gathering them more negative press for extremely long wait times and poor communication...
Prices are good but this company does not sell any class-D amplifier module or switching mode power supply. Calling themselves "class-D" has little sense and has the only purpose of attracting ignorant customers.
The claim that a 200W/4 ohms plain class AB module produces similar heat than an UcD180 is just false. The UcD can play music with heavy bass at full output without additional heatsinks, while the class AB module requires a heatsink with gentle surface, like 700 square centimeters (including fins), to do so.
This is the kind of false claim likely to come from a salesman. Are you one?
Power supply requirements for music playback are usually 2 to 3 times higher too.
The claim that a 200W/4 ohms plain class AB module produces similar heat than an UcD180 is just false. The UcD can play music with heavy bass at full output without additional heatsinks, while the class AB module requires a heatsink with gentle surface, like 700 square centimeters (including fins), to do so.
This is the kind of false claim likely to come from a salesman. Are you one?
Power supply requirements for music playback are usually 2 to 3 times higher too.
Member
Joined 2003
To translate that it means class d is too complex for them to make one that doesn't blow itself apart or is any more efficient than a less efficient class of amplifier.
Twisting that into saying their less efficient amplifier is as efficient as class d is deceptive marketing. To further use that to justify naming it class d when neither are true is even more deceptive. There's no such thing as an ultra efficient class ab amplifier.
All you need do is google for two seconds, preferably before making wild claims, and you'd see the punchline of a running joke which this is now a part of.
Strange about those contest winners still having nothing, their website is showing almost a thousand in stock right now, and for the sweat shop prices they can afford to sell them for I should think the contest winners would get a stereo pair to evaluate, or were they supposed to buy the second channel themselves? I get those calls all the time, "Connngratulationssssss you've won...".
As I've seen, the design of the amp isn't their own either. The guy that did design them does answer and help his customers and also sells them at a believable price. I also don't think he would make those same claims.
So what's it better than again and you based that conclusion on what?
Twisting that into saying their less efficient amplifier is as efficient as class d is deceptive marketing. To further use that to justify naming it class d when neither are true is even more deceptive. There's no such thing as an ultra efficient class ab amplifier.
All you need do is google for two seconds, preferably before making wild claims, and you'd see the punchline of a running joke which this is now a part of.
Strange about those contest winners still having nothing, their website is showing almost a thousand in stock right now, and for the sweat shop prices they can afford to sell them for I should think the contest winners would get a stereo pair to evaluate, or were they supposed to buy the second channel themselves? I get those calls all the time, "Connngratulationssssss you've won...".
As I've seen, the design of the amp isn't their own either. The guy that did design them does answer and help his customers and also sells them at a believable price. I also don't think he would make those same claims.
So what's it better than again and you based that conclusion on what?
These are more marketing doubtful claims.
1 - Class AB amplifier efficiency is similarl for all designs. There is a theoretical maximum which is around 65%, although efficiency with music is more likely to be in the 30% range (it depends strongly on the signal employed).
2 - The amount of problems found in any class D amplifier (or just in any amplifier) is inversely proportional to the skills of the designers, so theirs were not very good at class D!!
3 - Does it make sense to start a company and choose a name for it without having any product to sell related to that name? Obviously not. It's like calling your company "milk" and selling water after discovering that the milk that your cows can produce is not good. The purpose of this practice is obvious.
1 - Class AB amplifier efficiency is similarl for all designs. There is a theoretical maximum which is around 65%, although efficiency with music is more likely to be in the 30% range (it depends strongly on the signal employed).
2 - The amount of problems found in any class D amplifier (or just in any amplifier) is inversely proportional to the skills of the designers, so theirs were not very good at class D!!
3 - Does it make sense to start a company and choose a name for it without having any product to sell related to that name? Obviously not. It's like calling your company "milk" and selling water after discovering that the milk that your cows can produce is not good. The purpose of this practice is obvious.
Member
Joined 2003
Hi cbdb,
There is some small information, but it is very sparse:
Specifications PDF
The obvious thing missing from a manufacturer advertising this amp as an ultra high efficiency Class AB amp is....the efficiency. The least they could do is give a percent, or even better a graph of output power vs efficiency. As far as efficiency goes, the only I would refer to as a high efficiency class-AB amp is a class-H amp.
Putting the ridiculous company name aside, the price is fair considering what the product is: A small form factor 200W Class AB amp. I am hoping that the contest winners will receive their winnings so that we can have more evaluations of products from this company, and perhaps some third party measurements to fill in the blanks in the product specifications.
There is some small information, but it is very sparse:
Specifications PDF
The obvious thing missing from a manufacturer advertising this amp as an ultra high efficiency Class AB amp is....the efficiency. The least they could do is give a percent, or even better a graph of output power vs efficiency. As far as efficiency goes, the only I would refer to as a high efficiency class-AB amp is a class-H amp.
Putting the ridiculous company name aside, the price is fair considering what the product is: A small form factor 200W Class AB amp. I am hoping that the contest winners will receive their winnings so that we can have more evaluations of products from this company, and perhaps some third party measurements to fill in the blanks in the product specifications.
Ridiculous marketing aside, it seems to me they are essentially selling aussieamps modules, or at least something similar for a very decent price and are doing so from the uk which is convenient for me.
If that is the case I'm happy to look past all the other stuff and will probably soon be a customer. Of course these modules may or may not have their drawbacks compared to the aussieamp modules (not least in customer support I would imagine) but that remains to be seen
If that is the case I'm happy to look past all the other stuff and will probably soon be a customer. Of course these modules may or may not have their drawbacks compared to the aussieamp modules (not least in customer support I would imagine) but that remains to be seen
Member
Joined 2003
You are very correct, glt, the Class-D amps look exactly like the Holton amps from Aussie Amplifiers.
I have sent an email to Anthony Holton in regards to this design copy, and this is what he had to say:
------------------
E-MAIL TEXT REMOVED BY MODERATORS At the request of
Anthony E Holton
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I have sent an email to Anthony Holton in regards to this design copy, and this is what he had to say:
------------------
E-MAIL TEXT REMOVED BY MODERATORS At the request of
Anthony E Holton
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