I am in a band & we are looking to purchase (or build the power amps at least) a PA, probably around 1.5kw - 2kw FOH and 1kw Monitor system. would this project be worthwhile building.
http://sound.westhost.com/project117.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/project117.htm
It'll be cheaper bought off the shelf.
Keep your spare time for guitar practice.
I might need to listen to you some day😉
Keep your spare time for guitar practice.
I might need to listen to you some day😉
Class AB design is NOT the way to get this sort of power level. You will have so much heat, you could run a free BBQ on the heatsinks.
Also, as the article points out, it's very dangerous to build.
As others have said, I suggest buying off the shelf gear.. it will be cheaper, it will be reliable, and you wont cook yourself.
Also, as the article points out, it's very dangerous to build.
As others have said, I suggest buying off the shelf gear.. it will be cheaper, it will be reliable, and you wont cook yourself.
Hello Powertimes_2,
I admire your positive attitude, however please note that the advice given above is solid. There are some good value-for-money amps available commercially to do what you need, and they are proven reliable and have decent service back-up networks.
The 'fun' of DIY is that you get what you want, get to change it, try different things and optimise to your own requirements. Sometimes this also comes hand-in-hand with a cost saving compared with like-specified shop-purchased equipment. However enthusiasm can quickly escalate and costs shoot up accordingly. Likewise projects can, and often do, take a fair while to complete to a good and reliable standard.
By all means have a go at something DIY for yourself, but when it comes to getting something quickly that is developed and reliable enough for professional gig work then seriously consider factory built equipment.
Good luck,
G.
I admire your positive attitude, however please note that the advice given above is solid. There are some good value-for-money amps available commercially to do what you need, and they are proven reliable and have decent service back-up networks.
The 'fun' of DIY is that you get what you want, get to change it, try different things and optimise to your own requirements. Sometimes this also comes hand-in-hand with a cost saving compared with like-specified shop-purchased equipment. However enthusiasm can quickly escalate and costs shoot up accordingly. Likewise projects can, and often do, take a fair while to complete to a good and reliable standard.
By all means have a go at something DIY for yourself, but when it comes to getting something quickly that is developed and reliable enough for professional gig work then seriously consider factory built equipment.
Good luck,
G.
Powertimes_2 said:
Sorry for the touch of my reply, but you must be serious. This project it is unrealistic and has many receipts. I believe that not yet "esp" it is in position to make it works. I bet my bicycle for this.
Fotios
Hi Powertimes_2
Sorry to be a wet blanket in a diy column, but bands I've come across really still tend to prefer valve (tube) amps for guitars.
They take a load of punishment, don't worry about instantaneous overload, ....
Cheers
John
Sorry to be a wet blanket in a diy column, but bands I've come across really still tend to prefer valve (tube) amps for guitars.
They take a load of punishment, don't worry about instantaneous overload, ....
Cheers
John
hi,
you've got to consider the odds of this amp.....
why not build more modules of a few hundred-watt/s amp if you really want that much power..
you've got to consider the odds of this amp.....
why not build more modules of a few hundred-watt/s amp if you really want that much power..
Go for a switching (PWM) amp. These are highly efficient, and I think ICEpower make a suitable 1Kw module.
The biggest cost will be the power supply, you'd need around 2Kw and this will require a soft start, even on 240Vac mains.
To produce 1000W into 8R you need to swing 253Vpp across the load. This requires a minimum of around 140V rails - two of them - and these voltages are, need I say, lethal. Just making a 1000W conventional Class AB SS amp stable could cost hundreds of man hours, and, you'd need around 10 pairs of output devices rated to over 350V Vceo - and these are tricky to find.
I'm pretty sure that in this highly competitive area of the market you should be able to buy one off the shelf - a Peavey, or Crown, or whatever - for about three grand. Anyone here know this market?
Hugh
The biggest cost will be the power supply, you'd need around 2Kw and this will require a soft start, even on 240Vac mains.
To produce 1000W into 8R you need to swing 253Vpp across the load. This requires a minimum of around 140V rails - two of them - and these voltages are, need I say, lethal. Just making a 1000W conventional Class AB SS amp stable could cost hundreds of man hours, and, you'd need around 10 pairs of output devices rated to over 350V Vceo - and these are tricky to find.
I'm pretty sure that in this highly competitive area of the market you should be able to buy one off the shelf - a Peavey, or Crown, or whatever - for about three grand. Anyone here know this market?
Hugh
Hugh, in the USA you can buy a pair of Tapco J-2500 delivered to your door for $800. Two channels of 1.5KW/8R 20hz~20Khz (class H). They run on ±114V, so bridged that is more than 450V total supply swing. For ceiling speakers, they can drive 1.2KW into a 140V line.
http://www.cannononline.com.au/catalogue/c19
Plenty of places out there, but this one's a good start for you.
Plenty of places out there, but this one's a good start for you.
Thanks DJK,
Very significant information; wow, that's only 50c a watt, this is 1 helluva market......
These PA amps are well engineered, extremely stable with flat FR designed for full throttle operation. I admire the engineering in them unreservedly, but you would need to know the market very well to define them in audiophile terms.
They might not have the imaging, top end, or decay of the best high end audiophile amps, but you never know for sure until you assess them in a system and you'd be a fool to write them off.
Hugh
Very significant information; wow, that's only 50c a watt, this is 1 helluva market......
These PA amps are well engineered, extremely stable with flat FR designed for full throttle operation. I admire the engineering in them unreservedly, but you would need to know the market very well to define them in audiophile terms.
They might not have the imaging, top end, or decay of the best high end audiophile amps, but you never know for sure until you assess them in a system and you'd be a fool to write them off.
Hugh
Powertimes_2 said:
Maybe you should look over this module . They claim to deliver 1000W on 4 ohms. It's already built and tested. 🙂
That module is a joke.
You can buy a complete Tapco J1400 for the same price as one module. The J1400 is rated at 800W per channel at 2 ohms 20hz~20Khz with four pair of outputs (same as shown in your module).
If you like I could buy a complete amp, remove one module, throw away the other module, heatsinks, power supply, chassis, etc, and send it to you.
I wouldn't run these designs at their 2 ohm ratings and expect long life, but they should be fine at 4 ohms.
You can buy a complete Tapco J1400 for the same price as one module. The J1400 is rated at 800W per channel at 2 ohms 20hz~20Khz with four pair of outputs (same as shown in your module).
If you like I could buy a complete amp, remove one module, throw away the other module, heatsinks, power supply, chassis, etc, and send it to you.
I wouldn't run these designs at their 2 ohm ratings and expect long life, but they should be fine at 4 ohms.
Just thought i'd add a vote of no confidence for that ESP module.
I repair many many really badly burned amps - this looks like a contender.
my first impression, is that the designer has taken a simple design that will be ok for a few pairs of output devices... then upped the number of devices - i see this too often.
The flawed assumption is that the output device shown closest to the drivers will behave in the same way as the one furthest from it.
This does not happen in real life, whether it be due to track impedance, or the performance of the heatsink system each output device is under slightly different conditions.
This is why good real amps have complicated operating and monitoring circuitry and advanced topologies to manage stress.
If your only protection is 'DC speaker protection' then its too late ;-)
oh - stay away from behringer/c-mark/audiohead/t-amp/whatever its calling itself this week!
I repair many many really badly burned amps - this looks like a contender.
my first impression, is that the designer has taken a simple design that will be ok for a few pairs of output devices... then upped the number of devices - i see this too often.
The flawed assumption is that the output device shown closest to the drivers will behave in the same way as the one furthest from it.
This does not happen in real life, whether it be due to track impedance, or the performance of the heatsink system each output device is under slightly different conditions.
This is why good real amps have complicated operating and monitoring circuitry and advanced topologies to manage stress.
If your only protection is 'DC speaker protection' then its too late ;-)
oh - stay away from behringer/c-mark/audiohead/t-amp/whatever its calling itself this week!
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