Thanks,
I'm surprised to find a 3rd order slope. Do you prefer that just for the 3143 or because of the 380Hz point? I am using the non-s version of the SM-75-150 and would like to know if you would change anything other than the attenuation shown. How do you like the Crescendo? Have you tried any 19mm domes with the ATC?
Thanks again for your replies!!!
I'm surprised to find a 3rd order slope. Do you prefer that just for the 3143 or because of the 380Hz point? I am using the non-s version of the SM-75-150 and would like to know if you would change anything other than the attenuation shown. How do you like the Crescendo? Have you tried any 19mm domes with the ATC?
Thanks again for your replies!!!
Spd,
I have one more question,
I have another pair of SM75-150 non S drivers and have yet to purchase the woofers. I have 4 choices in mind and would really appreciate your comments.
Volt 3143
Volt 2500.1
Pair of Scanspeak 18W4531G00 4ohm in series for 8 ohm total
TAD TL-1102 (94db) would need compensation for level or active cross though this set should be passively crossed.
The pair of Scanspeak drivers would allow a narrow front baffle and their VAS of 42L doesn't require a much bigger box. I'm not sure how the ATC reacts to a very narrow baffle.
Thanks again!!!
I have one more question,
I have another pair of SM75-150 non S drivers and have yet to purchase the woofers. I have 4 choices in mind and would really appreciate your comments.
Volt 3143
Volt 2500.1
Pair of Scanspeak 18W4531G00 4ohm in series for 8 ohm total
TAD TL-1102 (94db) would need compensation for level or active cross though this set should be passively crossed.
The pair of Scanspeak drivers would allow a narrow front baffle and their VAS of 42L doesn't require a much bigger box. I'm not sure how the ATC reacts to a very narrow baffle.
Thanks again!!!
Hi
The ATC unit will actually give a 24dB/octave slope from 380Hz using a 2nd order filter as shown. I have tried a 4th order filter for the Volt but in practice this is not that important. What matters more is to shap the low pass filter to correct for baffle step and sound preferences. I have tried many different passive crossover filter designs over the past 2 years and the solution shown is the best so far. I have also used the non S version of the ATC and other than sensitivity adjustment the crossover works the same. The S version has higher power handling because of the higher sensitivity and also sounds slightly cleaner. Both versions sound amazing. Regarding tweeters I have used in this design the Morel Supreme, SEAS Crescendo and SEAS Mellennium. The SEAS tweeters sound by far the best with probably the Mellennium best of all, however, this tweeter has low sensitivity and is easy to blow up when played loud. The Crescendo sounds almost as good but with much better power handling so for my preference is the best choice. Regarding the Volt drivers I have tried both the RV3143 and B2500.1. I like the B2500.1 best of all but the RV3143 goes louder and has a warmer sound. Please note the crossover shown does not work for the B2500.
The ATC is best on a wider baffle, this reduces the EQU necessary. If you look at ATC's own designs you will see that the driver is placed off centre on the baffle where ever possible. This will also reduce the amount of EQU necessary. I intend to try this with some new enclosure designs. For a particular enclosure design it mabe necessary to adjust the 8.2 ohm resistor for best equalisation. A bit of experimenation will find the ideal value.
Hope this helps
The ATC unit will actually give a 24dB/octave slope from 380Hz using a 2nd order filter as shown. I have tried a 4th order filter for the Volt but in practice this is not that important. What matters more is to shap the low pass filter to correct for baffle step and sound preferences. I have tried many different passive crossover filter designs over the past 2 years and the solution shown is the best so far. I have also used the non S version of the ATC and other than sensitivity adjustment the crossover works the same. The S version has higher power handling because of the higher sensitivity and also sounds slightly cleaner. Both versions sound amazing. Regarding tweeters I have used in this design the Morel Supreme, SEAS Crescendo and SEAS Mellennium. The SEAS tweeters sound by far the best with probably the Mellennium best of all, however, this tweeter has low sensitivity and is easy to blow up when played loud. The Crescendo sounds almost as good but with much better power handling so for my preference is the best choice. Regarding the Volt drivers I have tried both the RV3143 and B2500.1. I like the B2500.1 best of all but the RV3143 goes louder and has a warmer sound. Please note the crossover shown does not work for the B2500.
The ATC is best on a wider baffle, this reduces the EQU necessary. If you look at ATC's own designs you will see that the driver is placed off centre on the baffle where ever possible. This will also reduce the amount of EQU necessary. I intend to try this with some new enclosure designs. For a particular enclosure design it mabe necessary to adjust the 8.2 ohm resistor for best equalisation. A bit of experimenation will find the ideal value.
Hope this helps
Spd,
Thanks so much! I would be interested in seeing the crosover you use with the B2500.1. I'm leaning towards that driver now. I like punchy bass, although the RV3143 sure has a look that garners oohs and aahhhs from those who have never seen it before. I guess the only other consideration, especially since the crossover is fairly low would be a 15" driver.
Thanks so much! I would be interested in seeing the crosover you use with the B2500.1. I'm leaning towards that driver now. I like punchy bass, although the RV3143 sure has a look that garners oohs and aahhhs from those who have never seen it before. I guess the only other consideration, especially since the crossover is fairly low would be a 15" driver.
Hi
Sorry I attached the wrong version of my crossover design for the RV3143. See attachment for latest.
For the B2500 I only have a design which uses two bass drivers per channel. (2x 8 ohm drivers in parallel). Note: I also recommend that with either Volt drivers that the enclosure should be 60% filled with wadding.
Sorry I attached the wrong version of my crossover design for the RV3143. See attachment for latest.
For the B2500 I only have a design which uses two bass drivers per channel. (2x 8 ohm drivers in parallel). Note: I also recommend that with either Volt drivers that the enclosure should be 60% filled with wadding.
Attachments
ATC mid/Volt B2500.1 crossover
Hi
This is my crossover design for the SM75-150S and Volt B2500.1
I have not tested it with the non S version of the ATC but I have included component changes which should provide the necessary sensitivity adjustment. In my view the B2500 gives the best results compared to the RV3143. The bass goes lower and has far more control and clarity. Combined with the ATC the results are amazing.
Hi
This is my crossover design for the SM75-150S and Volt B2500.1
I have not tested it with the non S version of the ATC but I have included component changes which should provide the necessary sensitivity adjustment. In my view the B2500 gives the best results compared to the RV3143. The bass goes lower and has far more control and clarity. Combined with the ATC the results are amazing.
Attachments
Hi everyone.
"spd" or anyone, since you are talking about Volt drivers here I'd like to use this opportunity to ask for comments about the 8" Volt BM220.8
Comments and discussions about Volt are rare. I have read a few good comments about Volt too (including this forum). My interest right now are for building studio monitors. I've located the following a kit which seems interesting based on what I've read about Volt and the ScanSpeak D2905/9300 tweeter.
http://www.solen.ca/hsm.htm
How does the B220.8 sounds compared to the B2500?
Do you think it's good match with the D2905/9300?
What are your general thoughts on this kit?
I'm looking for a sound that is smooth to neutral, (slightly on the warm side), silky highs, but with details and grain (hopefully this description make sense).
Thanks in advance !!
"spd" or anyone, since you are talking about Volt drivers here I'd like to use this opportunity to ask for comments about the 8" Volt BM220.8
Comments and discussions about Volt are rare. I have read a few good comments about Volt too (including this forum). My interest right now are for building studio monitors. I've located the following a kit which seems interesting based on what I've read about Volt and the ScanSpeak D2905/9300 tweeter.
http://www.solen.ca/hsm.htm
How does the B220.8 sounds compared to the B2500?
Do you think it's good match with the D2905/9300?
What are your general thoughts on this kit?
I'm looking for a sound that is smooth to neutral, (slightly on the warm side), silky highs, but with details and grain (hopefully this description make sense).
Thanks in advance !!
Bm220.8
Hi
The BM220 is very good. I have built this kit and can recommend. The sound is smooth and forgiving of older recordings. I also have a design for 2xBM220 with the Scanspeak which sounds even better, especially if you like high volume levels. The Scanspeak tweeter works well with this Volt driver. The Volt has a very good response for an 8" driver and rolls off smoothly making crossover design simple. The Scanspeak is also smooth with no harsh edge but maybe slightly less revealing than the SEAS alternatives. The Scanspeak matches well with the BM220 and works well with all types of music
The B2500 and ATC are very different - Precision revealing sound that on good recordings sounds REAL. This combination is the best I've tried so far - but much higher cost.
Hi
The BM220 is very good. I have built this kit and can recommend. The sound is smooth and forgiving of older recordings. I also have a design for 2xBM220 with the Scanspeak which sounds even better, especially if you like high volume levels. The Scanspeak tweeter works well with this Volt driver. The Volt has a very good response for an 8" driver and rolls off smoothly making crossover design simple. The Scanspeak is also smooth with no harsh edge but maybe slightly less revealing than the SEAS alternatives. The Scanspeak matches well with the BM220 and works well with all types of music
The B2500 and ATC are very different - Precision revealing sound that on good recordings sounds REAL. This combination is the best I've tried so far - but much higher cost.
15
Spd,
You mentioned before that you were also doing a design that used 2 of the Volt 2500. Have you tried mating a 15" woofer to the ATC? I am wondering how that might compare to using 2 10" drivers. I have access to a TAD 1602 that can go high enough to cross smoothly to the ATC but due to it's high sensitivity woul either need substantial series resistance or active crossing.
When using 2 LF drivers are there problems with either Phase response or directivity lobing? Do 2 drivers smooth out floor bounce issues?
Spd,
You mentioned before that you were also doing a design that used 2 of the Volt 2500. Have you tried mating a 15" woofer to the ATC? I am wondering how that might compare to using 2 10" drivers. I have access to a TAD 1602 that can go high enough to cross smoothly to the ATC but due to it's high sensitivity woul either need substantial series resistance or active crossing.
When using 2 LF drivers are there problems with either Phase response or directivity lobing? Do 2 drivers smooth out floor bounce issues?
You're right. The Seas Crescendo is a little more pricy !!!
The other option for me maybe could be to go with the SS D2905/9500. This one seems to be a little more revealing than the 9300 and without the bumps of the 9700 and 9900 in the 15-20K range. I have may found many positive comments about the 9500, and some negative ones about the 9700/9900. Here is an example:
http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/scan-spk.php
Here is the corrected link for the kit I mentioned above in case someone wants to see it.
http://www.solen.ca/hsm.htm
Thanks for the feedback !!
The other option for me maybe could be to go with the SS D2905/9500. This one seems to be a little more revealing than the 9300 and without the bumps of the 9700 and 9900 in the 15-20K range. I have may found many positive comments about the 9500, and some negative ones about the 9700/9900. Here is an example:
http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/scan-spk.php
Here is the corrected link for the kit I mentioned above in case someone wants to see it.
http://www.solen.ca/hsm.htm
Thanks for the feedback !!
Hi
I agree the 9500 sounds bests and works well with the BM220.
For 2x B2500 with the ATC. I have not managed to get this to sound right as yet. Sensitivity is not a problem if you use the S version of the ATC.
The B2500 really sounds best in a 75l enclosure although it will work with much smaller enclosures. At 75L tuned to 30Hz the bass control and overlall quality is to me by far the best I've heard. I am building some new enclosures with 2x B2500 units in 150L. This I think will fix the problem that I had before. I have not tried any 15" drivers.
Note: The B2500 is an unusual driver with massive motor which provides amazing bass control and produces a very clear sound with no boom but lots of slam. The power handling can be a problem because you just want to turn it up louder and louder until the unit end stops. This is because there's no obvious distortion until it end stops. Using 2 drivers, assuming I can get it to work, should produced live performance sound levels. (I hope)
I agree the 9500 sounds bests and works well with the BM220.
For 2x B2500 with the ATC. I have not managed to get this to sound right as yet. Sensitivity is not a problem if you use the S version of the ATC.
The B2500 really sounds best in a 75l enclosure although it will work with much smaller enclosures. At 75L tuned to 30Hz the bass control and overlall quality is to me by far the best I've heard. I am building some new enclosures with 2x B2500 units in 150L. This I think will fix the problem that I had before. I have not tried any 15" drivers.
Note: The B2500 is an unusual driver with massive motor which provides amazing bass control and produces a very clear sound with no boom but lots of slam. The power handling can be a problem because you just want to turn it up louder and louder until the unit end stops. This is because there's no obvious distortion until it end stops. Using 2 drivers, assuming I can get it to work, should produced live performance sound levels. (I hope)
Hi
I did try the HM100Z0 with the B2500 along time ago but didn't like the sound. Hard to remember why I didn't like it but I do remember trying many many crossover designs to try and fix the problem. I eventually changed to a Dynaudio 2" dome which much improved things. Regarding the Morel tweeters I have recently tried the Morel Supreme but didn't much like that either. The SEAS Milennium and Crescendo give a more convincing realistic sound and work very well with ATC mid. I would say in general that the B2500 is a very revealing driver and needs equally good mid and tweeter to get the whole to work. The RV3143 or BM220 will give very good results and are not so fussy about the mid/HF units used with them.
I did try the HM100Z0 with the B2500 along time ago but didn't like the sound. Hard to remember why I didn't like it but I do remember trying many many crossover designs to try and fix the problem. I eventually changed to a Dynaudio 2" dome which much improved things. Regarding the Morel tweeters I have recently tried the Morel Supreme but didn't much like that either. The SEAS Milennium and Crescendo give a more convincing realistic sound and work very well with ATC mid. I would say in general that the B2500 is a very revealing driver and needs equally good mid and tweeter to get the whole to work. The RV3143 or BM220 will give very good results and are not so fussy about the mid/HF units used with them.
http://www.tmaughan.co.uk/hifi/fronts2.jpg
http://www.tmaughan.co.uk/hifi/fronts3.jpg
Please excuse the raw MDF cab
And yes, that is 8 Behringer A500s stacked up.
The MDT33 is a mile away from the Supremo in terms of sound. The MTD33 is a big heavy dome with a HUGE motor, a bit like the B2500.1.
I have some ATC SM75-150 in poor person spec and didn't really like them. The HM100Z0 suited my ears more.
I now have some B220.2s to replace the BM220.8s in my centre speaker, need to re-do the box first. The BM220.8 are going to become surrounds along with more MDT33s.
http://www.tmaughan.co.uk/hifi/fronts3.jpg
Please excuse the raw MDF cab
And yes, that is 8 Behringer A500s stacked up.The MDT33 is a mile away from the Supremo in terms of sound. The MTD33 is a big heavy dome with a HUGE motor, a bit like the B2500.1.
I have some ATC SM75-150 in poor person spec and didn't really like them. The HM100Z0 suited my ears more.
I now have some B220.2s to replace the BM220.8s in my centre speaker, need to re-do the box first. The BM220.8 are going to become surrounds along with more MDT33s.
Hi
Interesting system thanks for the pictures
Have you still got the ATC units because these should really sound infinitely better than the Audax units. The problem with the
ATC's is that the response is not flat and requires equalisation.
This is why alot of users can't get them to sound good and give up with them.
I have shown the xover design for the ATC/B2500 which gives a flat response. If you are using an active xover then without the ability to equalise you will never get them to sound right.
The none S version sounds equally as good as the S version but with less sensitivity and maybe slightly higher distortion levels at high volume. I would recommend trying them again if possible. They really work well with the B2500.
Interesting system thanks for the pictures
Have you still got the ATC units because these should really sound infinitely better than the Audax units. The problem with the
ATC's is that the response is not flat and requires equalisation.
This is why alot of users can't get them to sound good and give up with them.
I have shown the xover design for the ATC/B2500 which gives a flat response. If you are using an active xover then without the ability to equalise you will never get them to sound right.
The none S version sounds equally as good as the S version but with less sensitivity and maybe slightly higher distortion levels at high volume. I would recommend trying them again if possible. They really work well with the B2500.