It is not that I am fixated on PVC or that there is some priapic preoccupation potentiating these proposals (say that 5x's in a row). I just happen to have a bunch left over from an outdoor project gone awry.
When I look at unfolded TL cabinets, or designs like the Zigmahornets or the Vampyr I can easily see building these inside a PVC tube. With vey little trouble I could whip up the endcaps and the minimal internals of these designs.
Clearly, length and placement of the driver, and the size of the vents are critical. But what of the shape. From my lay perspective there are going to be advantages and disadvantages to a rectangle versus a round pipe - all issues of mechanical resonance, zero'd out, what is the difference between the two designs.
If the Vampyr is essentially a 5.5x6.5 inch rectangle tube, what would the difference be in a 6" PVC tube?
If there were something critical about a rectangular versus a cylinder I would respect this and build the rectangular tube. I just don't know enough to think through this in an informed manner.
When I look at unfolded TL cabinets, or designs like the Zigmahornets or the Vampyr I can easily see building these inside a PVC tube. With vey little trouble I could whip up the endcaps and the minimal internals of these designs.
Clearly, length and placement of the driver, and the size of the vents are critical. But what of the shape. From my lay perspective there are going to be advantages and disadvantages to a rectangle versus a round pipe - all issues of mechanical resonance, zero'd out, what is the difference between the two designs.
If the Vampyr is essentially a 5.5x6.5 inch rectangle tube, what would the difference be in a 6" PVC tube?
If there were something critical about a rectangular versus a cylinder I would respect this and build the rectangular tube. I just don't know enough to think through this in an informed manner.
The volume of the main chamber (in Vampyr) is not an issue, but getting the ports correctly shaped is something i can't see reconciled with a cylinder.
dave
dave
PVC designing
They work fine! At the end of the design ,listening to it , you will hear a different kind of resonance , the one (s) produced at low frequencies ,depending on the thickness of the plastic , so it is better to damp and bitumen cover all the internals.
But I like the "light" distortions of it , after all the finished speakers will weight a lot less as if they're of MDF , or you can mix the two materials , linear vs. circular shape.
The challenge is to use sections of the tubes to build horn speakers.
They work fine! At the end of the design ,listening to it , you will hear a different kind of resonance , the one (s) produced at low frequencies ,depending on the thickness of the plastic , so it is better to damp and bitumen cover all the internals.
But I like the "light" distortions of it , after all the finished speakers will weight a lot less as if they're of MDF , or you can mix the two materials , linear vs. circular shape.
The challenge is to use sections of the tubes to build horn speakers.
how about this:
http://zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8649
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8649
Nice , Henkjan
But I like mine better!!!
Looking at all the speakers produced ,and experiencing too , it is good to have them narrow , but the speaker mounted extruded it's too much.
It needs to have at least a mechanical and acoustical flat plane to start with.
But I like mine better!!!
Looking at all the speakers produced ,and experiencing too , it is good to have them narrow , but the speaker mounted extruded it's too much.
It needs to have at least a mechanical and acoustical flat plane to start with.
Lost my shape... feel like an accident
Lyrics by David Byrne, Talking Heads.
You guys have very forbearing spouses/significant others. I feel like I am back in the 7th grade science club.
I was thinking it would be possible to cut wood baffles and place them in the cylindrical PVC cabinet. The only change would be that instead of the long outside rectangular walls of the Vampyr I would use the pvc. Everything else would remain the same. I would calculate the volume of the main cabinet and see the difference in length using a cylindrical pipe instead of a rectangular pipe. With the baffles cut it would be a simple matter to privilege equivalent length, or volume, and a third where I split the difference. I would have 3 cylindrical cabinets to plug the internal baffles/speaker into and see what happens. Because I am mathematically "incontinent" I have to do things concretely. Is there some elegant virtual way to run these differences in a model and predict ahead of my sawing and gluing what this would do?
Lyrics by David Byrne, Talking Heads.
You guys have very forbearing spouses/significant others. I feel like I am back in the 7th grade science club.
I was thinking it would be possible to cut wood baffles and place them in the cylindrical PVC cabinet. The only change would be that instead of the long outside rectangular walls of the Vampyr I would use the pvc. Everything else would remain the same. I would calculate the volume of the main cabinet and see the difference in length using a cylindrical pipe instead of a rectangular pipe. With the baffles cut it would be a simple matter to privilege equivalent length, or volume, and a third where I split the difference. I would have 3 cylindrical cabinets to plug the internal baffles/speaker into and see what happens. Because I am mathematically "incontinent" I have to do things concretely. Is there some elegant virtual way to run these differences in a model and predict ahead of my sawing and gluing what this would do?
For me it was just bric-a-brac or recycling materials.I made my cabinets more than 10 years ago , and the project was simply expanding the area of the horn , from the narrow point where it begins till the end.
More projects are still on the paper , since I had to do the step of acquiring the knowledge to play with 3D autocad ,just to know the exact cut-off of the panels.
I'm talking about CNC routers etc.etc. something beyond 7th grade etc etc.
This to avoid the simmetrical volumes inside the cabinets.Get it? Instead of placing
a rectangular flat panel inside the tube , try to place a trapezoidal plane in it.
More projects are still on the paper , since I had to do the step of acquiring the knowledge to play with 3D autocad ,just to know the exact cut-off of the panels.
I'm talking about CNC routers etc.etc. something beyond 7th grade etc etc.
This to avoid the simmetrical volumes inside the cabinets.Get it? Instead of placing
a rectangular flat panel inside the tube , try to place a trapezoidal plane in it.
Internals
To your knowledge what is the behavior of the sound waves inside a right angled tube and a cylindrical tube.
(Oh, and I do not know if you are aware that the reference to 7th grade science club characterizes us as more interested in science and less interested in social appropriateness. It is American self deprecating humor and not a criticism or some reference to lack of sophistication.) I think the two cabinets shared are very clever and I respect the originality of design. That said, they would not win the Home Beautiful award or be showcased in a wood paneled Edwardian library den with Italian Grayhounds sleeping at the base of them.
To your knowledge what is the behavior of the sound waves inside a right angled tube and a cylindrical tube.
(Oh, and I do not know if you are aware that the reference to 7th grade science club characterizes us as more interested in science and less interested in social appropriateness. It is American self deprecating humor and not a criticism or some reference to lack of sophistication.) I think the two cabinets shared are very clever and I respect the originality of design. That said, they would not win the Home Beautiful award or be showcased in a wood paneled Edwardian library den with Italian Grayhounds sleeping at the base of them.
About my design , Sir ,the boxes are Kartell original design . with occasionally added plastic tubes .
then , taken for granted that they sound great , let me inform you that it is better to avoid a case with parallel panels , and this may apply also with TL and horns. It is nice to sketch up many little arrows that symbolize the air flow , after having sketched the project , looks like an old videogame where all the air particles move inside a labyrinth . Like in airplanes , they fly because the air flowing through the wings has a minor pressure on the top surface ,this happens because of their special profile , so there's a force from the bottom that lets the plane ...etc etc.
Capish ,understand ? I think air don't care of elbows , corners , you can try to fool it with internal damping material ,heavy felt on the surfaces , straws in the mouth or whatever ..may be that's the tapped horn 3d.
then , taken for granted that they sound great , let me inform you that it is better to avoid a case with parallel panels , and this may apply also with TL and horns. It is nice to sketch up many little arrows that symbolize the air flow , after having sketched the project , looks like an old videogame where all the air particles move inside a labyrinth . Like in airplanes , they fly because the air flowing through the wings has a minor pressure on the top surface ,this happens because of their special profile , so there's a force from the bottom that lets the plane ...etc etc.
Capish ,understand ? I think air don't care of elbows , corners , you can try to fool it with internal damping material ,heavy felt on the surfaces , straws in the mouth or whatever ..may be that's the tapped horn 3d.
gychang said:
they were on display at a gathering, and most were positively surprised on the sound, good clean bass and the normal positives from full rangers naturally. there is a compensation network to flatten the response.
they are not mine, I'm happily married and I wish it to stay that way
click for google translate of the build thread
Awex-back on plastic
sound great=big bass , and then?
What about focusing the image , depth of the scenario , absence of the speaker itself (well , that's done , Henkjan )
sound great=big bass , and then?
What about focusing the image , depth of the scenario , absence of the speaker itself (well , that's done , Henkjan )
Heisenberg uncertainty
I agree that your characterization of a swarm of air particles moving without regard to the geometry of the tube is true but I was curious if from the wave perspective of this movement that the shape of the tube made a difference. I have a suspicion, open to correction, that it does. It may be that all these boxes are just easier to make squared up and that most enclosures would be optimal if cylinder shaped. I am blanking on the fellow who marketed LS3/5a doppelgangers in aluminum cylinder cabinets claiming the superiority of this design, thought this is not an apples to apples analogy.
So, I am going to have a wack at either the Zigmahornets or the Vampyr's in a 6" pvc pipe. Pending some clearly articulated reason this is a poor use of time and resources.
I agree that your characterization of a swarm of air particles moving without regard to the geometry of the tube is true but I was curious if from the wave perspective of this movement that the shape of the tube made a difference. I have a suspicion, open to correction, that it does. It may be that all these boxes are just easier to make squared up and that most enclosures would be optimal if cylinder shaped. I am blanking on the fellow who marketed LS3/5a doppelgangers in aluminum cylinder cabinets claiming the superiority of this design, thought this is not an apples to apples analogy.
So, I am going to have a wack at either the Zigmahornets or the Vampyr's in a 6" pvc pipe. Pending some clearly articulated reason this is a poor use of time and resources.
pipes rock
I can't claim to have used any Martin's math to have tuned the Fostex 103's, but they sound much fuller than i had expected and bass extension is reasonable. They are a 1m 6" tube with the bass of them flanged out, they stand about 6" off the floor. The speaker wire is braided Cat5 and the amp is a Kingrex. my Mac is the source. (I live in Laos, so everything had to be highly transportable). I am very surprised at the quality of the set up. The next project will be a 127 Metronome.
I can't claim to have used any Martin's math to have tuned the Fostex 103's, but they sound much fuller than i had expected and bass extension is reasonable. They are a 1m 6" tube with the bass of them flanged out, they stand about 6" off the floor. The speaker wire is braided Cat5 and the amp is a Kingrex. my Mac is the source. (I live in Laos, so everything had to be highly transportable). I am very surprised at the quality of the set up. The next project will be a 127 Metronome.
Attachments
top of the day to you
That is interesting. I too was thinking of having the driver at the top but have rethought this as I read about the position of the driver relative to the wave it creates.
At some point there will be an empirical discussion of how this works. I will have had the time to read as I am planing this weekend or this banter will be addressed by an experienced member who thinks enough is enough.
That is interesting. I too was thinking of having the driver at the top but have rethought this as I read about the position of the driver relative to the wave it creates.
At some point there will be an empirical discussion of how this works. I will have had the time to read as I am planing this weekend or this banter will be addressed by an experienced member who thinks enough is enough.
http://t-linespeakers.org/projects/sampson/index.html
and my PVC pipe speakers:
http://t-linespeakers.org/FALL/toobz/index.html
Note, that if you are trying to implement vampyr, the things that need to stay the same are the length of the main chamber (ie you need to find a tube with the same cross-section area), the shape & aspect ratios of the port slots, and the shape of the horns loading the ports.
dave
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and my PVC pipe speakers:
http://t-linespeakers.org/FALL/toobz/index.html
Note, that if you are trying to implement vampyr, the things that need to stay the same are the length of the main chamber (ie you need to find a tube with the same cross-section area), the shape & aspect ratios of the port slots, and the shape of the horns loading the ports.
dave
Re: Awex-back on plastic
those points are more driver related than enclosure related, so that's why i did not describe those. I would say at the same level as other W5-1611 systems, so very goodpicowallspeaker said:
Re: Re: Awex-back on plastic
The cabinet plays a big role in those characteristics.
dave
picowallspeaker said:
The cabinet plays a big role in those characteristics.
dave
Re:re:back on plastic
Sorry Henkjan ; despite of my nick , I'm not well deep into speakers projects .
I've gathered some data in these years , reading papers ,magazines - so tell me if I'm wrong :
Should spend my energies and time working for optimal final results ,i.e. if time,money,supply of materials don't permit ,going for sub-optimal.
If the above statement means hi-end , it's okay ,so excuse me if I use strange terms like depth , height , which are referred usually to the reconstruction of an imaginary orchestra standing in front of you (stop reversing Left and Right inputs!!!).
Basically , I find it everything old stuff ,I don't wanna listen to classical , I don't wanna sit in the triangle to get the stereo image , I don't wanna see power led indicators and shining surfaces .... but.
De facto the speaker ( often referred as the enclosure , also this lends to ambient )
needs to disappear to fully accomplish its duty. This can be done by making the cabinet non-resonant and by putting it where sound radiates better.
I don't think that a speaker attached at the top (Richard from ..Laos , forgive me)
of a PVC tube creates the scenario that systems that cost more than XXXX$ may offer.
Thinking really that it wasn't his purpose , anyway. I will post pics of my creatures as they have to shine to the world! Would you like to keep 'em black or restore them to the original white look (apple lovers alerted !! ) ??
Sorry Henkjan ; despite of my nick , I'm not well deep into speakers projects .
I've gathered some data in these years , reading papers ,magazines - so tell me if I'm wrong :
Should spend my energies and time working for optimal final results ,i.e. if time,money,supply of materials don't permit ,going for sub-optimal.
If the above statement means hi-end , it's okay ,so excuse me if I use strange terms like depth , height , which are referred usually to the reconstruction of an imaginary orchestra standing in front of you (stop reversing Left and Right inputs!!!).
Basically , I find it everything old stuff ,I don't wanna listen to classical , I don't wanna sit in the triangle to get the stereo image , I don't wanna see power led indicators and shining surfaces .... but.
De facto the speaker ( often referred as the enclosure , also this lends to ambient )
needs to disappear to fully accomplish its duty. This can be done by making the cabinet non-resonant and by putting it where sound radiates better.
I don't think that a speaker attached at the top (Richard from ..Laos , forgive me)
of a PVC tube creates the scenario that systems that cost more than XXXX$ may offer.
Thinking really that it wasn't his purpose , anyway. I will post pics of my creatures as they have to shine to the world! Would you like to keep 'em black or restore them to the original white look (apple lovers alerted !! ) ??
- Status
- Not open for further replies.