we're trying to work on making a 1" dome and we want to know what's more important for you guys:
we have two 1" dome options right now... using diamond cones and our new technology for the voice coils that we're patenting (Dylan and I) that offers ultra light weight and extreme power handling:
here's what we have for specs as most ideal... F3 is 1khz so a bit better low end than the seas millenium and a much much better top end:
Fs = 550 Hz
Qms = 6.01
Vas = 0.136 liters
Cms = 1.5 mm/N
Mms = 0.0558 g
Rms = 0.0321 kg/s
Xmax = 3 mm
Xmech = 4.5 mm
P-Dia = 31.92 mm
Sd = 8 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.0024 liters
Qes = 0.455
Re = 6.8 ohms
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 1.7 Tm
Qts = 0.423
1-W SPL = 99.01 dB
yea that 99db/w is true for real life...
we're going to try for solid silver voice coils but can't promise getting it to that weight this way... however it doesn't matter much in this respect
what should be changed before we go to production on this?
BTW price will be right around $400-600 each or so... if we use silicon carbide and not diamond for the cone... (neither one matters much just that the SiC is lighter and melts a TAD sooner, which doesn't matter... no real difference in hardness... our SiC cones are 13,000 vickers and around 30 microns thick)
oh and that Xmax is for real... and power handling is around 1000w RMS on this speaker... depending on the tech used and such
cheers
we have two 1" dome options right now... using diamond cones and our new technology for the voice coils that we're patenting (Dylan and I) that offers ultra light weight and extreme power handling:
here's what we have for specs as most ideal... F3 is 1khz so a bit better low end than the seas millenium and a much much better top end:
Fs = 550 Hz
Qms = 6.01
Vas = 0.136 liters
Cms = 1.5 mm/N
Mms = 0.0558 g
Rms = 0.0321 kg/s
Xmax = 3 mm
Xmech = 4.5 mm
P-Dia = 31.92 mm
Sd = 8 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.0024 liters
Qes = 0.455
Re = 6.8 ohms
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 1.7 Tm
Qts = 0.423
1-W SPL = 99.01 dB
yea that 99db/w is true for real life...
we're going to try for solid silver voice coils but can't promise getting it to that weight this way... however it doesn't matter much in this respect
what should be changed before we go to production on this?
BTW price will be right around $400-600 each or so... if we use silicon carbide and not diamond for the cone... (neither one matters much just that the SiC is lighter and melts a TAD sooner, which doesn't matter... no real difference in hardness... our SiC cones are 13,000 vickers and around 30 microns thick)
oh and that Xmax is for real... and power handling is around 1000w RMS on this speaker... depending on the tech used and such
cheers
I thought you'd had reservations about the diamond tweets? I think you said the B&W and Accuton variations weren't very good. Actually you said dome's sucked full stop 
Be interesting to see if this actually does what it says on the tin. Those are awefully ambitious T/S and not just better than the rest in one area but virtually every area. The theoretical goals make me wonder if this will actually be possible and sound better than anything else at the same time.
BTW that tweeter has as much xmax as an ATC mid (if its one way).
Be interesting to see if this actually does what it says on the tin. Those are awefully ambitious T/S and not just better than the rest in one area but virtually every area. The theoretical goals make me wonder if this will actually be possible and sound better than anything else at the same time.
BTW that tweeter has as much xmax as an ATC mid (if its one way).
ShinOBIWAN said:I thought you'd had reservations about the diamond tweets? I think you said the B&W and Accuton variations weren't very good. Actually you said dome's sucked full stop
Be interesting to see if this actually does what it says on the tin. Those are awefully ambitious T/S and not just better than the rest in one area but virtually every area. The theoretical goals make me wonder if this will actually be possible and sound better than anything else at the same time.
BTW that tweeter has as much xmax as an ATC mid (if its one way).
that's one way
the reservations on the diamonds is that they are muted sounding due to inefficency... it's quite clear that's why I didn't like even the thiel
however I like hard domed tweets... and efficency only makes it better IMO
Domes do suck as they stand now because the diamond tweeters are the most inefficent tweeters made that I know of for their size... I'll take a ribbon tweeter anyday... however there's something to be said for dome dispersion
everything is possible with the specs actually... that suspension could be employed into the surround it's so loose... the Mms seems ultra low... be based upon the cone,former, and coil weighing in at 0.04 g in this situation... it's not a big deal
most tweeters are about 0.35g for Mms... so yea... 7x lower is ambicious... but possible using this tech...
the cone weighs what house hold alum foil does if you cut it to this area... and beyond that the coil is the largest weight contributer
how about you tell me if you like it and I'll worry about making it happen
??I wouldn't have asked if we can't do it /hehehehehehehe
Member
Joined 2004
lightweight cone & voicecoil!
ShinOBIWAN said:
it is very doable... considering our coil only needs to be around 1/2 that size and is around 20x the power handling of that coil
hence why we're patenting it
we realistically can do a bit more than 20x... just depends on price vs. added performance
1kw seems more than enough though
Audiophilenoob said:
Obviously underhung but what magnetic material? Neo I assume?
The BL isn't that high at 1.7 Tm, well that's in light of others using 3 Tm and more usually.
I hope you've given a lot of thought to damping the rear wave, whilst diamond and variants have a great weight to stiffness ratio at the thickness your using you'll have to be very vigilant about rear wave interferance. Probably best to use a rear chamber with a lattice type construction.
Also don't go with any ferrofluid in the gap. If you want proof of the benefits this brings check out the Seas T25C003 vs. T25CF001 - one has ferrofluid and the other is identical without ferrofluid, I don't need to say which sounds better although the difference is small and many related to micro detail.
ShinOBIWAN said:
no ferrofluid will be used period
the rear wave will be dampened with a honey comb filled with aerogel and foam...
dylan is the man of dampening... he's taking care of that end... aerogel will work wonders and closed cell foam etc
we'll probably have these in 2 mths for sale... gonna go ahead and start the design and gather parts
no neo mags... they demagnitize too soon
BL isn't high for a reason... to keep low end very very good
probably only going to be using these for other company's usage in HT speakers... and our own store bought speakers
but DIY will get a stab at it if they want...
Member
Joined 2004
roland bios said:Hi audiophilenoob
So the question is: are you interested in the most fast, efficient and linear tweeter ever build? And would you like to have it a powerhandling of 1000 watts?
Best regards Roland
without explaining in detail how Dylan and I can achieve 1000w power handling without sacrificing anything else you won't understand
but efficent, fast and linear is first... 1000w is a byproduct of the technology
it's not a genie... Dan at adire and I have been working on the horn version using this (120db/w or so horn loaded from 500-20khz) for a week or so now... about to get started on it within a week or two... looks like we'll see 10kw or so power handling out of this... depending on how the coil reacts
he was even skeptical at first but finally understood how we can do it
ShinOBIWAN said:What's happened with the Excelsior?
it's still getting worked on shin...
dan has all the parts ready to go he's testing voice coils out as we speak... another 2 weeks or so... on that project
Dylan at Ology audio and I have decided to go in on a bunch of projects including some subs that will be ready soon and this horn... this dome is my dream that I want to try out
the subs are kind of too insane to talk about and you'll need to email me for the details...
other than that... in a few mths we should have like 10 speaker lines from domes to every sized sub and the 6.5" and all that
BAM said:
impractical how?
it's cheap, efficent and linear
like I said... we can Do just 200w rms with this... using the cheaper tech but why?
why not do 1000w? 5000w?
it's not that much more expensive and doesn't do ANYTHING negative to the specs etc
I mean if people don't want it we will do the non-uber version and keep the uber for myself
this is why I posted I wanted feedback
Well, I don't remember the numbers offhand, but I remember reading that a tweeter only receives on the order of 15% of the power that the woofer does, in reproducing a full-range signal with overall levels between the tweeter and woofer matched. Are you planning on a 6,700 watt midbass driver to match with this? 
Perhaps you already have the design on deck to make me sorry I asked.
That would be insane.
I have to ask, however, who is going to be able to afford the amplifiers big enough to use these things to their potential.
Perhaps you already have the design on deck to make me sorry I asked.
That would be insane.I have to ask, however, who is going to be able to afford the amplifiers big enough to use these things to their potential.
BAM said:Well, I don't remember the numbers offhand, but I remember reading that a tweeter only receives on the order of 15% of the power that the woofer does, in reproducing a full-range signal with overall levels between the tweeter and woofer matched. Are you planning on a 6,700 watt midbass driver to match with this?
Perhaps you already have the design on deck to make me sorry I asked.
I have to ask, however, who is going to be able to afford the amplifiers big enough to use these things to their potential.
we have midbasses around 8" that can handle 10kw-20kw... easily on the cheap
why do you have to use them to their full potential... am I missing something here?
they're still around 100db/w efficent all in this compact size... 1000w is around 130db/m at around 1khz
I dunno that I would want that to be honest, my ears wouldn't last very long... but I always ask the question "why not?"... cause someone might want that
I'm more interested in having very small amps that do very big things
if nobody WANTS to use that we can cut build costs and hence cut price...
200w seems rather nice and we can cut back on excursion also as we don't need it
our 15" subs can handle like 50-60kw with this technology... but I guess yea... it's kind of impractical... but I always ask the question... WHY NOT???
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