Also i can see two chips, out of alignment...maybe both in parallell....the name was a Chinese name, but this do not seems Chinese are doing that...maybe this is made here, in South América.
Have some Chinese name over...and very well constructed, outside, you can inspect with lenses, and nothing strange is founded.
But this transistor burned so easy, with some small supply, low voltage, and current of 5 amps...nothing big in the base, not big current entering the base, nor voltage too....no audio....and Kaput!
Have some informs to me and forum guys?
Please, knowing some, tell us.
regards,
Carlos
Have some Chinese name over...and very well constructed, outside, you can inspect with lenses, and nothing strange is founded.
But this transistor burned so easy, with some small supply, low voltage, and current of 5 amps...nothing big in the base, not big current entering the base, nor voltage too....no audio....and Kaput!
Have some informs to me and forum guys?
Please, knowing some, tell us.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Carlos,
Unfortunately, counterfeit semiconductors became an increasing problem in recent years. With so many companies transferring their manufacturing facilities to China, machinery and know-how is now available to unscrupulous people trying to make a quick buck.
If you search the forum with the word “counterfeit”, you will find a few threads in which the problem has been discussed. You can see a recent one here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46155&perpage=10&highlight=&pagenumber=1
Rod Elliot also talks about it on his web site:
http://sound.westhost.com/counterfeit.htm
Unfortunately, counterfeit semiconductors became an increasing problem in recent years. With so many companies transferring their manufacturing facilities to China, machinery and know-how is now available to unscrupulous people trying to make a quick buck.
If you search the forum with the word “counterfeit”, you will find a few threads in which the problem has been discussed. You can see a recent one here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46155&perpage=10&highlight=&pagenumber=1
Rod Elliot also talks about it on his web site:
http://sound.westhost.com/counterfeit.htm
These are absolutely fake
This is how genuine TIP35C and TIP36C look like...
These ones are from SGS-Thomson and are made in Morocco. That Morocco factory appears to have been owned by Texas instruments in the past, since these same devices were labelled as Texas Instruments some years ago. The die measures 4.5 by 4.5 milimeters
These ones are from an unknown manufacturer but are commonly found on car-audio equipment and are very reliable. The die measures a whopping 5 by 5 milimeters
Finally, these ones are made by a company called MOSPEC from Taiwan. They appear to be also reliable and capacitance tests reveal a reasonable die size. I have no pictures of the insides of them since this is the last remaining unit I got of that kind and it's good working so it would hurt to break it
A single pair of these devices is capable of reliably driving 4 ohms of slightly inductive load [+-45º] with +-40V rails. I haven't tested higher rails but they may probably survive +-45V or even +-50V
This is how genuine TIP35C and TIP36C look like...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
These ones are from SGS-Thomson and are made in Morocco. That Morocco factory appears to have been owned by Texas instruments in the past, since these same devices were labelled as Texas Instruments some years ago. The die measures 4.5 by 4.5 milimeters
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
These ones are from an unknown manufacturer but are commonly found on car-audio equipment and are very reliable. The die measures a whopping 5 by 5 milimeters
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Finally, these ones are made by a company called MOSPEC from Taiwan. They appear to be also reliable and capacitance tests reveal a reasonable die size. I have no pictures of the insides of them since this is the last remaining unit I got of that kind and it's good working so it would hurt to break it
A single pair of these devices is capable of reliably driving 4 ohms of slightly inductive load [+-45º] with +-40V rails. I haven't tested higher rails but they may probably survive +-45V or even +-50V
That fake industry is serious, but there are worst thing hidden.
They are using Chinese names, to induce us to believe, that all that dirty came from China, and i think came from Soutwest from South America...but i have not sure about that too.
The problem is that burns the Chinese image, and this is not fair, and this is much worst than sale fake units...as we have internet, we have mouth, and our new fast comunication can keep ourselves well informed.... we already know many news about fake transistors...Rodd already doing that, and started many years ago...when i read his text first time.
When we had the Cold war....against "Russian Monsters that eat children alive".... all that big lies, they are kind as a home cat.... and alike a home cat, has their own nails too.
In the second world war, they turn bad...but was too much angry inside...the SS crazy animals entered Russia killing everything that move....children, woman, old guys, animals, everything was killed..... those real animals from Stuts Staffel turn those Russians so bad when invaded Germany....each one of them may have lost unless one...murdered by SS demons....Russians are kind...but they are not completely without feelings, of course can feel angry, can turn nervous...of course!
In those times, i had friends from Russia, and i see clearly, the Propaganda was completely wrong.... nothing real there!..only lyes.
Now that dirty thing, burning in fire the respectability of Chinese people...this is worst....real worst...as we can defend ourselves against fake units.... but that actitude will create a dirty connection between chinese people and dirty business...and this is not fair.
Carlos
They are using Chinese names, to induce us to believe, that all that dirty came from China, and i think came from Soutwest from South America...but i have not sure about that too.
The problem is that burns the Chinese image, and this is not fair, and this is much worst than sale fake units...as we have internet, we have mouth, and our new fast comunication can keep ourselves well informed.... we already know many news about fake transistors...Rodd already doing that, and started many years ago...when i read his text first time.
When we had the Cold war....against "Russian Monsters that eat children alive".... all that big lies, they are kind as a home cat.... and alike a home cat, has their own nails too.
In the second world war, they turn bad...but was too much angry inside...the SS crazy animals entered Russia killing everything that move....children, woman, old guys, animals, everything was killed..... those real animals from Stuts Staffel turn those Russians so bad when invaded Germany....each one of them may have lost unless one...murdered by SS demons....Russians are kind...but they are not completely without feelings, of course can feel angry, can turn nervous...of course!
In those times, i had friends from Russia, and i see clearly, the Propaganda was completely wrong.... nothing real there!..only lyes.
Now that dirty thing, burning in fire the respectability of Chinese people...this is worst....real worst...as we can defend ourselves against fake units.... but that actitude will create a dirty connection between chinese people and dirty business...and this is not fair.
Carlos
Re: That fake industry is serious, but there are worst thing hidden.
Hi,Mr Carlos:
the fake units can be manufactured anywhere whole the world!
so we must take more carefully to identification.but don't do anythings what is contumelious behavior to chinese!
because most of people are well-meaning in china!
I hate the fake units too!
do you think so?Mr.Carlos.
regards,
WINCO
destroyer X said:
Hi,Mr Carlos:
the fake units can be manufactured anywhere whole the world!
so we must take more carefully to identification.but don't do anythings what is contumelious behavior to chinese!
because most of people are well-meaning in china!
I hate the fake units too!
do you think so?Mr.Carlos.
regards,
WINCO
Re: Re: That fake industry is serious, but there are worst thing hidden.
i dont think so , although i am a real chinese.
anything fake is all ove the china, so i dont dare buy chinese products which i dont know well. of cource i never buy ir mosfet from chinese market for my pass amplifier.
DarkHorse said:
i dont think so , although i am a real chinese.
anything fake is all ove the china, so i dont dare buy chinese products which i dont know well. of cource i never buy ir mosfet from chinese market for my pass amplifier.
Big electronic component dealers are the only ones we have to blame for this growing fake-transistor market we are experiencing. They allways know what they sell and to whom they have bought it
They buy, even at custon-order, fake and rebranded transistors to dozens of small fake manufacturing companys across the world. They know they are buying fakes and they pay it much cheaper than genuine devices, but they sell the stuff to you as if it were genuine and at the price of genuine devices
Semiconductor market is ruled by offer and demand. For the fake market to exist there must be electronic component dealers demanding fake devices
Particularly, Spanish component dealers are very happy knowing that they sell fake components because they make more profit this way than selling genuine ones
I don't usually buy power transistors at Spanish local stores because they are almost allways fakes, I only buy resistors, capacitors, some ICs known to be genuine and little more. When I need power transistors I allways order to european stores like Farnell, Amidata or Conrad
Things in South America are even worse. Nearly all of the semiconductors sold on local stores are fakes, not only transistors but also ICs
So don't blame China or India, they don't lie about what they sell, the liars are our component dealers from our respective countries
Are they trying to ruin the reputation of local stores?
They buy, even at custon-order, fake and rebranded transistors to dozens of small fake manufacturing companys across the world. They know they are buying fakes and they pay it much cheaper than genuine devices, but they sell the stuff to you as if it were genuine and at the price of genuine devices
Semiconductor market is ruled by offer and demand. For the fake market to exist there must be electronic component dealers demanding fake devices
Particularly, Spanish component dealers are very happy knowing that they sell fake components because they make more profit this way than selling genuine ones
I don't usually buy power transistors at Spanish local stores because they are almost allways fakes, I only buy resistors, capacitors, some ICs known to be genuine and little more. When I need power transistors I allways order to european stores like Farnell, Amidata or Conrad
Things in South America are even worse. Nearly all of the semiconductors sold on local stores are fakes, not only transistors but also ICs
So don't blame China or India, they don't lie about what they sell, the liars are our component dealers from our respective countries
Are they trying to ruin the reputation of local stores?
The fact that we are never going to buy genuine Toshiba or Sanken devices from an Indian or Chinese manufactuter or distributor is quite obvious for everybody, I think
Complaining about Toshiba-branded or Sanken-branded devices bought to India or China is like complaining because our apple tree does not grow bananas
Remember that Toshiba and Sanken are Japanese companies. In India and China we are going to find India-made and China-made stuff mostly. Component dealers around the world have dozens of years of business expeience and know this fact quite well
Nobody would manufacture or rebrand fakes if there weren't any component dealers willing to buy them
Complaining about Toshiba-branded or Sanken-branded devices bought to India or China is like complaining because our apple tree does not grow bananas
Remember that Toshiba and Sanken are Japanese companies. In India and China we are going to find India-made and China-made stuff mostly. Component dealers around the world have dozens of years of business expeience and know this fact quite well
Nobody would manufacture or rebrand fakes if there weren't any component dealers willing to buy them
I do not think China is responsible, i think that Eva has explained very well
I do not think China can be the responsable, i dislike they use Chinese names, to create that confusion, sending shame to one entire country...i do not like that.
In my point of view, all Eva told us is very near the reality.... there are many responsables.
Maybe some fakes can be done in China, but i do not believe the only ones to do that, as we have, here in South America, one entire country dedicated to make those fake things.... from Wiskie to cigars, passing througth electronics and many appliances...one day, when broken you perceive that the Sony you bougth is really Zoni.
Carlos
I do not think China can be the responsable, i dislike they use Chinese names, to create that confusion, sending shame to one entire country...i do not like that.
In my point of view, all Eva told us is very near the reality.... there are many responsables.
Maybe some fakes can be done in China, but i do not believe the only ones to do that, as we have, here in South America, one entire country dedicated to make those fake things.... from Wiskie to cigars, passing througth electronics and many appliances...one day, when broken you perceive that the Sony you bougth is really Zoni.
Carlos
A good practise, I am finding, is to check the manufacturer's web site. For example, in a related thread, there was much talk about conterfiet Toshiba 2SC5200. I went to the Toshiba web site and used the Check Inventory tool. The only vendor it showed (us page) was Digi-Key as having 1200+ units in stock. I would then buy them only from DigiKey, as they are the only ones in the US that Toshiba seems to be aware of.
I know OnSemi and others have similar facilities for check vendor stocks. Hopefully international versions of their sites show ocal vendors.
-b
I know OnSemi and others have similar facilities for check vendor stocks. Hopefully international versions of their sites show ocal vendors.
-b
Carlos,
You are getting too emotional for no reason. The fact that most of the world’s opium come from Afghanistan, does not make the Afghani people criminals. Having Colombia as the main source of coca paste and refined cocaine does not make Colombians evil. Not everybody living in Brazilian favelas is a drug dealer or criminal. The same applies to China. With the explosive growth of manufacturing, Chinese law enforcement has not caught up yet. With government intervention and international assistance it will in a few years. For now, it just so happens that the growing industrialization in China is opening opportunities for unscrupulous people. That has nothing to do with Chinese people. I have friends that were born in mainland China as well as Hong Kong, and they are all fine people.
Search Google with the words China and Fake and you will find many hits not only in semi-conductors, but in other high priced items too. Callaway, a manufacturer of golf clubs, balls and apparel has been hit hard with complaints from people who bought counterfeit goods. They traced the origin of most of the fakes back to China.
http://www.callawaygolf.com/EN/CustomerService.aspx?pid=counterfeit
You are getting too emotional for no reason. The fact that most of the world’s opium come from Afghanistan, does not make the Afghani people criminals. Having Colombia as the main source of coca paste and refined cocaine does not make Colombians evil. Not everybody living in Brazilian favelas is a drug dealer or criminal. The same applies to China. With the explosive growth of manufacturing, Chinese law enforcement has not caught up yet. With government intervention and international assistance it will in a few years. For now, it just so happens that the growing industrialization in China is opening opportunities for unscrupulous people. That has nothing to do with Chinese people. I have friends that were born in mainland China as well as Hong Kong, and they are all fine people.
Search Google with the words China and Fake and you will find many hits not only in semi-conductors, but in other high priced items too. Callaway, a manufacturer of golf clubs, balls and apparel has been hit hard with complaints from people who bought counterfeit goods. They traced the origin of most of the fakes back to China.
http://www.callawaygolf.com/EN/CustomerService.aspx?pid=counterfeit
Brazilian people are lovely and emotional, the problem my dear Grim, is that you are
Anglo saxon...and sometimes, some of them, not the majority, feel unconfortable with my texts full of feeling.
And as you already know, i have a very special feelings dedicated to you (larga do meu ôvo) and i want to send you a special gift.
Have fun.....oh!...sorry, bon appetit...have a good meal.
chô
Carlos
Anglo saxon...and sometimes, some of them, not the majority, feel unconfortable with my texts full of feeling.
And as you already know, i have a very special feelings dedicated to you (larga do meu ôvo) and i want to send you a special gift.
Have fun.....oh!...sorry, bon appetit...have a good meal.
chô
Carlos
Attachments
Does anyone of you know of faked lm4700? it a power opamp.
i have 4 that works perfectly, makes good sound and has a rough surface where the text is written.
and then there are the 3 with the polished surfaces.. i measured 2.9ohms between the output of it and Vcc. it got just a _litle_ hot, and damn near took my speaker with it. i havn't dared using any of the polished ones anymore..
i have 4 that works perfectly, makes good sound and has a rough surface where the text is written.
and then there are the 3 with the polished surfaces.. i measured 2.9ohms between the output of it and Vcc. it got just a _litle_ hot, and damn near took my speaker with it. i havn't dared using any of the polished ones anymore..
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