I used to clean dirty LPs by rinsing them in lukewarm water and detergent (dish washer), washing the dirt out of the grooves with a velvet brush.
Recently I tried out another method. I cover the surface of the LP with water-based wood glue. The label area is left out. A flat brush comes handy. Then I let it dry for overnight. I treat several discs at once, separating them with some spacer. Once dried, the glue is water-resistant. The next day I simply peel off the dried flexible layer of glue. It takes all dust and dirt with itself. I use the white Henkel wood adhesive (called "Ponal"), Pattex works equally well. These are available in Europe. Everbuild 502 in the US might also work, but I haven't tried it.
Here is a pic:
http://tube.fw.hu/PIC00014.JPG
The only problem is that static charge is built up on the LP when the vinyl and glue layer is separated, but it can be easily neutralized with a carbon fiber brush.
Recently I tried out another method. I cover the surface of the LP with water-based wood glue. The label area is left out. A flat brush comes handy. Then I let it dry for overnight. I treat several discs at once, separating them with some spacer. Once dried, the glue is water-resistant. The next day I simply peel off the dried flexible layer of glue. It takes all dust and dirt with itself. I use the white Henkel wood adhesive (called "Ponal"), Pattex works equally well. These are available in Europe. Everbuild 502 in the US might also work, but I haven't tried it.
Here is a pic:
http://tube.fw.hu/PIC00014.JPG
The only problem is that static charge is built up on the LP when the vinyl and glue layer is separated, but it can be easily neutralized with a carbon fiber brush.
I have been using this method for years with perfect results. Long time ago, there was a product called disco film or something like this which was in fact a clear PVA wood glue, easier to apply.Some brands of glue are less suitable for disc cleaning since they become hard when dry, but still safe for records. Allow glue to dry completely and use a soft brush to apply.
Is there any risk of some areas being too thin and tearing away when pulled off when dry ? That would mean it stays in the groove 
The solution I guess is to apply it over again then pull it all off again ! Probably the key is that it must be really fully dry before pulling it off. The layer didn't come off very easily if I remember correctly. One had to pull it off with some force but gently. Would a wetting agent help here ?
I assume there are no harmful additives in the glue which will react with the vinyl or it's plasticiser.
This was a popular method in the 80's and there were Japanese products that I saw demonstrated at some show's. There must have been several brands at that time. Can one add a bit ( couple of drops ) of antistatic solution to the glue ? What would an antistatic solution be made up of ?
The solution I guess is to apply it over again then pull it all off again ! Probably the key is that it must be really fully dry before pulling it off. The layer didn't come off very easily if I remember correctly. One had to pull it off with some force but gently. Would a wetting agent help here ?
I assume there are no harmful additives in the glue which will react with the vinyl or it's plasticiser.
This was a popular method in the 80's and there were Japanese products that I saw demonstrated at some show's. There must have been several brands at that time. Can one add a bit ( couple of drops ) of antistatic solution to the glue ? What would an antistatic solution be made up of ?
The method was popular also in my country in the 80s. There was a product called "Disc guard" (translated), a pink stuff that came with a plastic applicator. The applicator helped in evenly distributing the liquid over the groove area only. The stuff was allegedly identical to the peel-off face cleanser that women used, and it was some cellulose derivative. Perhaps this makes it static. I found the wood glue a perfect replacement.
The glue is initially white, and it becomes opaque after drying. It is strong enough so that it comes off in one piece. The edge must be lifted with fingernail, then it comes off easily. The secret is in distributing it evenly and not too thin. I haven't experienced any harm on my LPs yet.
The glue is initially white, and it becomes opaque after drying. It is strong enough so that it comes off in one piece. The edge must be lifted with fingernail, then it comes off easily. The secret is in distributing it evenly and not too thin. I haven't experienced any harm on my LPs yet.
Out of curiosity, I just tried this on a junk record using Weldbond, a catalyzed PVA glue. It goes on white, then turns clear when it dries. It gave me enough confidence to try it on a good record, but I did notice that static attraction caused a fair number of small thin pieces to cling to the record. I'd certainly follow this method up with a conventional wet cleaning and extra-rigorous visual inspection. What I really want is a cleaning method that fixes groove damage and pressing problems...
This sounds like a great idea, rehashed or not.
I'm in the acrylic coatings business. I'll hit the lab dood with this question this coming week.
I think we'll do some experimenting and come up with a mix you can make up yourself. If not, we'll be forced to sell it to you.... label it up and pound it out the door!
You see..water based wood glue largely IS 'acrylic paint'. And vise-versa.
Except our resins are far better. And we KNOW how to neutralize any residual static and provide the creep and surface adhesion required to get down deepest into the groove....and to design the film so it cleanly pulls away best......
Cuz..that's what we do. Making pigmented paints is BRUTALLY tricky due to all kinds of similar issues, so we work with these situations all the time, every day.
The odds are, that you can go to any high-end artist's shop right now, and simply buy any of the "Tri-Art" brand clear 'mediums', and it will work just fine.
I'll go and look at the catalogue right now:
Here's the page to look at. Some experimenting will be in order.
http://tri-art.ca/en/products/finestquality/mediums/
I'm in the acrylic coatings business. I'll hit the lab dood with this question this coming week.
I think we'll do some experimenting and come up with a mix you can make up yourself. If not, we'll be forced to sell it to you.... label it up and pound it out the door!
You see..water based wood glue largely IS 'acrylic paint'. And vise-versa.
Except our resins are far better. And we KNOW how to neutralize any residual static and provide the creep and surface adhesion required to get down deepest into the groove....and to design the film so it cleanly pulls away best......
Cuz..that's what we do. Making pigmented paints is BRUTALLY tricky due to all kinds of similar issues, so we work with these situations all the time, every day.
The odds are, that you can go to any high-end artist's shop right now, and simply buy any of the "Tri-Art" brand clear 'mediums', and it will work just fine.
I'll go and look at the catalogue right now:
Here's the page to look at. Some experimenting will be in order.
http://tri-art.ca/en/products/finestquality/mediums/
Let me just add: This method is totally awesome. Thanks!
I am a polymer chemist, and a general rule for polymers is that they hate adhering to other polymers; Vinyl/PVA, Polyester/Nylon, etc. That is why it is generally hard to glue plastics (without the appropriate chemistry of course). I don't think the polyvinyl chloride in records is plasticized or otherwise treated with something which could leach. PVC, like for pipes, is tough, strong, and acts as a fire retardant. As long as the method is not abrasive, thumbs up!
I am a polymer chemist, and a general rule for polymers is that they hate adhering to other polymers; Vinyl/PVA, Polyester/Nylon, etc. That is why it is generally hard to glue plastics (without the appropriate chemistry of course). I don't think the polyvinyl chloride in records is plasticized or otherwise treated with something which could leach. PVC, like for pipes, is tough, strong, and acts as a fire retardant. As long as the method is not abrasive, thumbs up!
My lp cleaning method
I tried with a Pattex glue called vinil with awful results. Very hard to take away of the record, it broken in dozens of small pieces. The worst is that some glue remained inside the grooves, no way to get rid of, neither applying new glue. Disc ruined, hope not definitively. Suggestions?
I tried with a Pattex glue called vinil with awful results. Very hard to take away of the record, it broken in dozens of small pieces. The worst is that some glue remained inside the grooves, no way to get rid of, neither applying new glue. Disc ruined, hope not definitively. Suggestions?
Not all Pattex is good for the purpose. Wood glue (water-based PVA) does work. My advice is to cover the disc with Pattex wood glue again. It should not be very thin. Let it dry overnight (at least 12 hours). Then peel off, it will hopefully take the old glue. There is a tendency of remaining small pieces of glue in the grooves if the glue was too thin and unevenly applied on the surface of the disc. Small pices can be removed with "magic tape".
My lp cleaning method
Thank you for the advice. I will search for ponal and try again. The remnants of old glue are well inside the groove: the glue came away leaving some deposit. At this point I am afraid that it will be very difficult to remove, tried with new glue first, then with a records liquid cleaner, but deposit is still there.
Thank you for the advice. I will search for ponal and try again. The remnants of old glue are well inside the groove: the glue came away leaving some deposit. At this point I am afraid that it will be very difficult to remove, tried with new glue first, then with a records liquid cleaner, but deposit is still there.
Hi I thought I would chime in here, I was one of the ones who posted over at AudioKarma about useing pva glue as a cleaner. I noticed from useing different kinds of glue that some work, and well some do what Clack is having a hard time with, sticking in the groves. I would not give up Clack just try some other PVA water based glues, alot are marketed as wood glue and others are marketed as a craft glue. I dont know if you can get "Alene's Tacky Glue" which is marketed as a craft glue, but that stuff worked great (check my post pg. 9 on AudioKarma). I only use this method if gentle hand scrubbing doesnt work (I dont have a RCM) and it has served me well every time. Best of luck, Nick
Thank you for your advice. I read about this brand in other forum but I am afraid is available only in the american market. Henkel ponal is said to do well here in Europe but is described as acetic-vinylic and as such wakes some doubt in me. I will search for alene with google and see if it's available here in some way.
I tried with other brands of glue with better results. Now the problem is that even if the dried glue easily comes away in one piece, tiny spots remain in the grooves, especially near the outer edge and cause strong impulse noises. They are very difficult to remove completely: some remnant always keep sticked. Does anyone experimented it? How to avoid this?
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