View attachment 284205Hi,
I am astounded with an experiment I did, with the extra Dynaudio 52's speakers lieing about, gathering dust.
As may be seen in the picture, I inverted two Dynaudio 52 in a D'Appolito Configuration, then placed another speaker at 180 degrees to the D'Appolito Configuration and another at 65 degrees to the D'Appolito Configuration. All in series, coming up to 13.50 ohms DC resistance per side, which the Aspen Naksa 100 amplifier drives effortlessly.
The D'Appolito Configuration speakers are in opposite phase to the others.
The sound is hard to describe except BEAUTIFUL! There is a huge 3 dimensional depth & height of instruments and excellent stereo separation & ambiance.
Could some one please shed light as to the reason behind this out of the world experience I am having with this set up....that too this is with a cheap crossover inside! I cannot wait to try out the speakers with the crossovers modified!
Thanks,
jsa_ind
I am astounded with an experiment I did, with the extra Dynaudio 52's speakers lieing about, gathering dust.
As may be seen in the picture, I inverted two Dynaudio 52 in a D'Appolito Configuration, then placed another speaker at 180 degrees to the D'Appolito Configuration and another at 65 degrees to the D'Appolito Configuration. All in series, coming up to 13.50 ohms DC resistance per side, which the Aspen Naksa 100 amplifier drives effortlessly.
The D'Appolito Configuration speakers are in opposite phase to the others.
The sound is hard to describe except BEAUTIFUL! There is a huge 3 dimensional depth & height of instruments and excellent stereo separation & ambiance.
Could some one please shed light as to the reason behind this out of the world experience I am having with this set up....that too this is with a cheap crossover inside! I cannot wait to try out the speakers with the crossovers modified!
Thanks,
jsa_ind
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Hmmm...not sure if your set up really qualifies as D'appolito config...looks a lot like what we did during frat parties in the 60s...stack-em, turn-em and crank it up.😀
There are a lot of fellows here that have done some xperimentin' with this. See the following threads:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/14774-dappolito-configuration-3.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/9070-question-about-dappolito-configuration.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/1923-dappolito-configuration.html
There are a lot of fellows here that have done some xperimentin' with this. See the following threads:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/14774-dappolito-configuration-3.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/9070-question-about-dappolito-configuration.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/1923-dappolito-configuration.html
Did that with EPI 50s in the early 70s (4 pair). In the late 70s stacked Advents wereall the rage.
dave
dave
My dyslexia was kicking in for a minute...thought you wrote "did that with EPI 70s in the 50s" (I knew you weren't that old Dave)😀
But you're right, in the 70s anything stacked was the rage...speakers too!😉
You may be evening out response caused by room modes, maybe a wall cancellation, there may be uneven dispersion higher up. These issues are of concern to us all and often dealt with in other ways...although maybe you just prefer the increased spaciousness?
You are correct AllenB!
Probably the combination of D'Appolito Configuration +Dipolar Speaker + Dr. Floyd Toole that give the music that extra spaciousness & depth...music does not seem to originate from the boxes any more, yet I can define the placement of almost every instrument in 3 Dimension!
A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I) - Blu-ray Forum
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/190171-why-omni-speakers-not-more-popular-36.html
Per Dr. Floyd Toole, the ambiance drivers fire 65-degrees outward (off-horizontal axis) from the main forward-firing drivers. The ambiance drivers are vertically offset for 7+ms (check that number, might be off) arrival delay to maintain main driver primacy. Obviously the vertical offset is easiest fulfilled by locating the mains above the ambiance drivers vs. vice-versa (always wanted to write that!)...quote r09397
Probably the combination of D'Appolito Configuration +Dipolar Speaker + Dr. Floyd Toole that give the music that extra spaciousness & depth...music does not seem to originate from the boxes any more, yet I can define the placement of almost every instrument in 3 Dimension!
A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I) - Blu-ray Forum
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/190171-why-omni-speakers-not-more-popular-36.html
Per Dr. Floyd Toole, the ambiance drivers fire 65-degrees outward (off-horizontal axis) from the main forward-firing drivers. The ambiance drivers are vertically offset for 7+ms (check that number, might be off) arrival delay to maintain main driver primacy. Obviously the vertical offset is easiest fulfilled by locating the mains above the ambiance drivers vs. vice-versa (always wanted to write that!)...quote r09397
A friend of mine in London is doing something similar. He has two Seas 8" fullrange in stacked boxes 1 pointing fore, the other aft. Same on the other channel (stereo). He loves it. In fact he's been searching for years and years for the sound he likes and has now found it.
Staggered Dipole?
Staggered Dipole?
Has nothing to do with "D'Appolito Configuration" . . . for a full explanation call Dr. Bose . . .
I don't know what this configuration is called nor do I care! All I wish is that others try and explore possibilities as to why the sound that emanates sounds so goooooooood and is in 3 dimension!
I did some experiments with wiring ordinary speakers in series, and I always got excellent results. Very smooth and valve-like sound. You get similar improvements with bridged mode amplifiers. 😀
Course you need 4 bookshelf speakers to get it to work. I got the feeling the speakers damped each other rather optimally. Maybe the signal is IN PHASE and the distortion OUT OF PHASE with series wiring. Maybe the amp just sees an easy load.
I did want to ask the gurus here if wiring woofers in series offers any benefit over wiring them in parallel. 😎
Course you need 4 bookshelf speakers to get it to work. I got the feeling the speakers damped each other rather optimally. Maybe the signal is IN PHASE and the distortion OUT OF PHASE with series wiring. Maybe the amp just sees an easy load.
I did want to ask the gurus here if wiring woofers in series offers any benefit over wiring them in parallel. 😎
Dave, could you please advise the loudspeaker configuration, considering the following:
"D'Appolito Configuration" Positive goes to Amplifier Positive, Negative to Negative of Inverted Loudspeaker.
Positive of Inverted speaker to Negative of speaker that is 180 degrees to the "D'Appolito Configuration"
Positive of the "180 degree"" speaker to the Negative to the speaker that is at 65 degrees to the "D'Appolito Configuration"
Positive of the "65 degree" speaker to the Negative of the Amplifier
Thanks,
jsa_ind
"D'Appolito Configuration" Positive goes to Amplifier Positive, Negative to Negative of Inverted Loudspeaker.
Positive of Inverted speaker to Negative of speaker that is 180 degrees to the "D'Appolito Configuration"
Positive of the "180 degree"" speaker to the Negative to the speaker that is at 65 degrees to the "D'Appolito Configuration"
Positive of the "65 degree" speaker to the Negative of the Amplifier
Thanks,
jsa_ind
You are so correct Steve, it is Tube like but yet SS like, very hard to describe in words. But once you go there you never want to return to the conventional Stereo set up again!
I know exactly what Pano means about his friend not wanting to return to normal stereo!
The 3 D depth and separation is to be heard to be believed! The speakers disappear totally...all you are left with is HUGE 3D sound stage in front of you
I know exactly what Pano means about his friend not wanting to return to normal stereo!
The 3 D depth and separation is to be heard to be believed! The speakers disappear totally...all you are left with is HUGE 3D sound stage in front of you
Yup, jsa, I sometimes contibute to a thread about classic monitors. Let me tell you about a loudspeaker considered to be about the best ever made for PA use. The Acoustic Research AR-LST from the 1960's:
This was a speaker used in large auditoriums. Notice the doubling of drive units, a bit like your arrangement. Something VERY right about that design. 😎
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This was a speaker used in large auditoriums. Notice the doubling of drive units, a bit like your arrangement. Something VERY right about that design. 😎
i´m trying something with my speakers too , the blue rectangles are 3 way speakers
notice the small blue tweeter pointing to the floor , it´s connect in series with the tweeter in that speaker
you get a " 3d sound " for frequencies above 3.8khz the tweeter cross frequency
the floor 3 way speaker and sub
notice the small blue tweeter pointing to the floor , it´s connect in series with the tweeter in that speaker
you get a " 3d sound " for frequencies above 3.8khz the tweeter cross frequency
the floor 3 way speaker and sub
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Hmmm.........
Well to get back to basics any sets of speakers wired out of phase to each
other will cancel in the bass, doesn't matter what direction they are pointing.
Simple fact is just saying something sounds wonderful so there must be a
reason it does is a double edged sword you can fall on for lots of reasons.
rgds, sreten.
Well to get back to basics any sets of speakers wired out of phase to each
other will cancel in the bass, doesn't matter what direction they are pointing.
Simple fact is just saying something sounds wonderful so there must be a
reason it does is a double edged sword you can fall on for lots of reasons.
rgds, sreten.
No disrespect or contrarian-ism intended, but what does that mean?...I don't think a speaker can sound valve-like and smooth. These seem to be terribly vague subjective descriptions that are impossible to assess
I'm glad you like the sound so much...but don't see how this set-up differs from the Bose, OHM Walsh, Design Acoustics D-12a and omni-directional loudspeakers tried and abandoned (for the most part) in the 70s...just a fancy schmancy name
for reflecting sound hither and fro...well suited for surround sound A/V applications but not Hi-Q audio IMHO.
Methinks you are bang on!
Yes. I know that from experience...I thought the OHM Fs were wonderful when I had them, and they do some things superbly, but wonderful is in the ears of the beholder...they sounded different from most traditionally configured speakers and it took some time to really get a handle on what they did, and their inherent limitations...fun? yes...but only for a while as the wow factor wore off...and the how? factor took over.
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