• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

would twisted pair from a network cable be suitable as hook-up wires inside an amp?

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30W? Wire doesn't know about watts :whazzat:

The most relevant rating is current. The other relevant rating is insulation voltage rating. As a practical matter, this kind of 24 AWG wire should do very well for most audio chassis hookup use, with the possible exception of heater wiring which can carry a lot of current. As Planet10 says, Teflon is best. Although I've used computer network wires for audio before, I usually use 22AWG Teflon hook-up, just because I have a giant reel of it, but 24AWG ought to do. It's not that the wire would fuse with typical heater currents, but it might exhibit too much IR loss if any appreciable run length is required.
 
Might fuse if you try to run parallel filaments on a quad of 6C33Cs from it though - 26.4A at 6.3v.

Yeah, that would not a be good thing!

I was surprised that my reference book shows the fusing current of 24AWG copper wire (uninsulated, standard conditions, etc., etc.) to be 29.2 amperes! Of course, well before then it will be smoking hot and any insulation will be vaporizing into toxic fumes. Just as a rough rule of thumb, I would probably allow no more than about 1 ampere of current through a 24AWG wire.
 
Belden manufactures certain types of this wire using foam dielectric with low dielectric constant, if you're wanting that n-th degree of performance. One such dielectric goes by the name Datalene. Another is simply foam teflon. The wire is of course bulkier per a given voltage rating given its Swiss cheese nature.
 
Get Cat 6 cable. It's thicker.

It's very likely multi-strand patch cable is OFC. OFC is an industry standard. It makes the copper softer.

Multi-strand cable of the same gauge is thinner than solid core. The electrons travel on the surface where the resistance is lower. (High-bandwith coax use silver-plated steel core.) There's more surface in a multi-strand cable. Gauge, if I remember correctly, was originally based on flow-thru.
 
Recently in one prototype I decided to save some teflon isolated wire and connected filaments of 6E1P tubes (EM80) using polyester isolated wire, to power them from 12.6V... As the result, hot leg of one resistor touched the wire and I lost 2 precious indicators... 1000 mkF cap still had something from 315V... They died quietly, without a scream... :bawling:
 
Eusebius said:
Can somebody tell me what's solid polyethylene and polyolefin in relation to teflon - is it as good or not?

I don't know what is polyolefin, but teflon and polyethylene are totally different plastics. Teflon is the same as Ftoroplast-IV, it is heat resistant, but when exposed to very high temperatutes generate fosgen (poisonous gas)!
Polyethylene is very good dielectric, I would say it is the excellent one, one of the best, but mechanically it is very weak and melt on very low temperatures.
 
Teflon is a registered trade mark of DuPont Chemicals (right?? ) . The common name is PTFE- (PolyTetraFluorEthylene), as used by all the other makers of products using this stuff. PTFE is indeed an excellent isolation material, hailed as the one of very best among a lot of the cable maniacs- quite often concidered very close to The Very Holy Grail!! Several warp speed light years better than polyethylene, polyolefine, and whatever else you can think of!! This very strange substance is actually found in -would you believe this- most of todays Cat 5and 6 cables.....

Hold your horses here !!!.... Is the commercial cable manufacturers using this stuff???? If that is true, then of course nothing, and I seriously mean absolutely nothing used by the commercial companies can be worthy of the ever so Holy Quest for Audio Nirvana.. No, No and forever NOO!! Don't EVER even TRY to tell me that any single step on my way to Audio Nirvana can cost only a mere dime or so per foot???
PLEASCHE-- go take your evil thoughts somewhere else!!
AND JUST DON'T EVEN THINK OF MOVING OVER TO THE AA!!!!!
YOU'LL JUST SIMPLY BE CRUSIFIED!!! HERETIC !!! ;)

BTW- I use silver plated, multistrand PTFE cable almost every day!! Nothing strange to it! Quite heat resistant, somewhat more expensive than PVC, but alot nicer to work with..and fulfiills my demand and purposes for my job!
The only seriously real snag is that my stripper costs 250$ !!!!!
EDIT.:: That is my - CABLE STRIPPER !!
( I don't have the foggiest idea of the price of other strippers in my corner of the world ! ):angel:
 
Ex-Moderator
Joined 2004
OT - discovery of PTFE

At school, we learned how polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) was discovered - by accident!

Apparently, a scientist kept a cylinder of terafluoroethylene gas in his laboratory and, one day, discovered that it seemed to be empty. Not understanding how it could all have escaped, and being a curious type of guy, he took a hacksaw to the gas bottle. Once he had cut off the end, he discovered that the cylinder was llined with a kind of soapy plastic - it had polymerized to PTFE.

Since its discovery, as well being valued for its superlative insulation and dielectric properties, PTFE is used wherever self-lubrication is important, such as in hip joint replacements. Marvelous stuff!
 
AuroraB

And anyone interested in aquiring a cheap and effective PTFE wire stripper - check out this link

http://www.logwell.com/tech/shdwe/teflon_wire.html

The 'stripping woes' section gives a heads up on a really cheap stripper that works very well on PTFE insulated wire.

the IE-180

http://www.imperial-tools.com/tools/electrical_datatools/stripper_05.html

The tool is sold under several brand names, and I can personally attest to its effectiveness. At around US$10 - 12 it's a real no-brainer.

pm
 
My .02¢
I work in Pro A/V & the impedance & other bandwidth related aspects of utp, stp or sctp are very good for audio. In my world, that is balanced audio & the shield is optional, regardless of what many think & the books say. The common mode rejection takes care of most of the issues relating to induced EMI, hum, RFI, etc. at the receiving end.

Category cable comes in many flavors. Plenum rated cable in the USA most likely will have Teflon, though your average non-plenum rated cable, basic premise of riser cable, will have PVC insulation on the individual conductors & jacket. Europe & other locations have zero emission requirements in some cases which is very costly. This will get to the USA market eventually, due to NEC updates. Some installations require it here now.

Note that most category rated 5 & 5e will have 24 gauge conductors. They come larger, though generally 24 is the number. When you get into more esoteric cabling, like the category 6, bets are off & the conductors may be larger. The latest category 7 drafts use larger conductors as well. This larger “pipe” is due to the high twist rate required by the bandwidth pushed through these cables. The larger conductor impacts many aspects of termination & connectorization, as they are no longer compatible with the standard category 5 & 5e products. Category 6 is a channel rating which means the entire signal path has to be from the same manufacturer to maintain the rating. That way all the components match & work mechanically & electrically. Category 5 & 5e are mostly interchangeable between equipment manufacturers. Much of category 6 is too, though not all.

In the application posted above, as long as you are not pushing the current & dielectric capabilities of the cabling, go go go! They do make stranded category cabling, too, if flexibility is an issue. The solid conductors will only flex a few times & then break.

I do agree, though, that only directional, solid oxygen free silver, braided, stereo, digital, Quad, DTS, Dolby Digital© 5.1, impedance matched to .000000001% should ever be considered for any audio application. ;)
BTW, the only place any of this load of bollocks is tolerated is in the wacky world of golden ear audio. Try to find that poo in any studio or performance hall. Ask me how I know what they use @ Carnegie Hall in NYC.

I use a simple Ideal© T-Stripper for stripping stranded wire. It is the one @ Home Despot with the red handle. It works well for solid 24 gauge, too.
An excellent resource & the MS of installed infrastructure cabling:
http://www.belden.com/
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
phn said:
Get Cat 6 cable. It's thicker.

But is thicker better? For low current signal wire, i'll look for something skinnier yet.

Multi-strand cable of the same gauge is thinner than solid core. The electrons travel on the surface where the resistance is lower.

In an ideal world the signal actually travels in the field around the wire -- not in the wire... the problem with multi-strand is that there is another wire right there interfering with the field.

dave
 
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