Hello All,
First post for me, love this site!
I am looking for opinions on the best 10 inch sub driver on the market. I currently have 4 separate sealed sub boxes with older "Peerless" drivers that I use in my home theater.
I will feed each 10 with about 400 watts/rms and I want subs that I can drive HARD and LOW with little to no distortion.
I would appreciate anyone's opinion!
Thanks!!
First post for me, love this site!
I am looking for opinions on the best 10 inch sub driver on the market. I currently have 4 separate sealed sub boxes with older "Peerless" drivers that I use in my home theater.
I will feed each 10 with about 400 watts/rms and I want subs that I can drive HARD and LOW with little to no distortion.
I would appreciate anyone's opinion!
Thanks!!
what size is each box ?
www.ficaraudio.com
can build you a speaker for each of the enclosures you have already.
www.ficaraudio.com
can build you a speaker for each of the enclosures you have already.
Hi brox and welcome.
I'll let you in on a secret. The best 10" subs are actually 15"
You have asked a very subjective question. What does best mean to you and what is your budget?
You are aware that every driver unit has a specific set of parameters that you use to determine the box size? You are aware you don't just buy another sub and put it in your existing boxes?
I'll let you in on a secret. The best 10" subs are actually 15"
You have asked a very subjective question. What does best mean to you and what is your budget?
You are aware that every driver unit has a specific set of parameters that you use to determine the box size? You are aware you don't just buy another sub and put it in your existing boxes?
If you would give us the dimensions of the boxes, how they are built, material, thickness, bracing, dampening, etc. That would be helpful. Then, what is the 400 watts rms into, what load. Better yet would be to let us know the amp itself, if its a DIY amp, a plate amp, or something else. This will help us help you pick some new woofers. Also, what are these "older" peerless woofers. How old is older, some of their drivers are still pretty good by modern standerds.
None the less, for what you are asking, I think that there are lots of good choices. Many here will recomend the Dayton Line from Parts express, I myself have used extensivly the RS line of subwoofers and have been blown away. They put them on sale all the time for pretty cheap, at least twice a year it seems they come down to almost 100 bucks for the tens. They have very low distortion, lots of output for the money, and will handle the power no problem. There are other ten's that will have greater xmax, greater power handeling, etc. but given our power, I think these are more than good enough.
I must say, you might be a good candidate for a ported box. You can have very low distortion from a ported box, excellent sound quality, and will get deeper bass, and greater efficiency. These sealed boxes may even be large enough to be turned into ported boxes with the right woofers. For instance you can use the ten inch Dayton RS series woofers, the one designed for greater output, in a 1 cubic foot box ported in the I believe mid to upper 20's. It will give more output, is more efficient, and still will have very low distortion. There are a lot of other options though.
If budget is a major concern, and with 4 woofers, it can be, there is a guy on this forum who started a speaker company that has some of the best woofers I have seen for so cheap. As some have said, they are too cheap really, and the price will probably go up. I would have to run the numbers to see how they would work for you, but for not a lot of money, they might be the best value option. I can't say they would sound as good as some much more expensive woofers, but at the price, who cares. Also, with 4 speakers, the distortion will be lower simply because you aren't running any single speaker as hard to get the desired output.
None the less, for what you are asking, I think that there are lots of good choices. Many here will recomend the Dayton Line from Parts express, I myself have used extensivly the RS line of subwoofers and have been blown away. They put them on sale all the time for pretty cheap, at least twice a year it seems they come down to almost 100 bucks for the tens. They have very low distortion, lots of output for the money, and will handle the power no problem. There are other ten's that will have greater xmax, greater power handeling, etc. but given our power, I think these are more than good enough.
I must say, you might be a good candidate for a ported box. You can have very low distortion from a ported box, excellent sound quality, and will get deeper bass, and greater efficiency. These sealed boxes may even be large enough to be turned into ported boxes with the right woofers. For instance you can use the ten inch Dayton RS series woofers, the one designed for greater output, in a 1 cubic foot box ported in the I believe mid to upper 20's. It will give more output, is more efficient, and still will have very low distortion. There are a lot of other options though.
If budget is a major concern, and with 4 woofers, it can be, there is a guy on this forum who started a speaker company that has some of the best woofers I have seen for so cheap. As some have said, they are too cheap really, and the price will probably go up. I would have to run the numbers to see how they would work for you, but for not a lot of money, they might be the best value option. I can't say they would sound as good as some much more expensive woofers, but at the price, who cares. Also, with 4 speakers, the distortion will be lower simply because you aren't running any single speaker as hard to get the desired output.
Cheap and reliable ... http://www.justwoofers.com/Woofer_Pages/Pyle/Pyle_PL-BL.htm
I have one of these 12 inchers in a sealed ~ 5 cuft sealed box driven by aussieamplifiers.com MOSFET 400 watt modules (from active low pass crossover ~ 100 Htz.) and can report a very tight response, solid bass. I chose these "road worthy" el cheapo's 'cause I didn't want my nieces and nephews crankin' 'er up and blowing it out = can't happen.
&
Other models: http://www.justwoofers.com/Woofer_Pages/Pyle/pyle_main.htm
(Cal is right though ... the best 10" sub is 15")
I have one of these 12 inchers in a sealed ~ 5 cuft sealed box driven by aussieamplifiers.com MOSFET 400 watt modules (from active low pass crossover ~ 100 Htz.) and can report a very tight response, solid bass. I chose these "road worthy" el cheapo's 'cause I didn't want my nieces and nephews crankin' 'er up and blowing it out = can't happen.
& Other models: http://www.justwoofers.com/Woofer_Pages/Pyle/pyle_main.htm
(Cal is right though ... the best 10" sub is 15")
Thanks for the input, let me elaborate a bit.
I purchased the four passive subwoofers for cheap awhile back. They are made by Triad and are at least 10 years old. They were intended to be in-wall subs but I have them stacked 2 high in opposite corners of my theater room.
Each of the four enclosures are 11x14x19, about 1.70 cubic feet. The are made of 3/4 inch mdf and lined with 1 inch yellow foam.
The enclosures are heavy and well made so I want to keep them and build my drivers around them, if possible.
I don't know much about the drivers, all I know is they are made by Peerless and are 8ohm 10's with a max output of 220watts, don't know rms.
I push the four subs with a Buttkicker BKA1000. I have the four 8ohm subs wired in parallel showing a 2ohm load. Now, I'm not exaclty sure what the power ratings are for this amp. Their website claims 1900 watts at 2ohms but they don't state if it's continuous or max. I've seen various websites list this output as RMS but even if it is max, I would guess the rms to be around 800 or 200 per speaker under a 2ohm load.
I must say that I am very impressed with the amp so far, the speakers perform very well and are more than perfect for normal viewing, but I always want more!! I can turn the amp up to maybe 50% before the speakers begin to fail during heavy bass scenes. This is why I am looking to upgrade the drivers.
Sorry for the long post, I hope this answers some of the quesitons you had. I look forward to your replies!!
I purchased the four passive subwoofers for cheap awhile back. They are made by Triad and are at least 10 years old. They were intended to be in-wall subs but I have them stacked 2 high in opposite corners of my theater room.
Each of the four enclosures are 11x14x19, about 1.70 cubic feet. The are made of 3/4 inch mdf and lined with 1 inch yellow foam.
The enclosures are heavy and well made so I want to keep them and build my drivers around them, if possible.
I don't know much about the drivers, all I know is they are made by Peerless and are 8ohm 10's with a max output of 220watts, don't know rms.
I push the four subs with a Buttkicker BKA1000. I have the four 8ohm subs wired in parallel showing a 2ohm load. Now, I'm not exaclty sure what the power ratings are for this amp. Their website claims 1900 watts at 2ohms but they don't state if it's continuous or max. I've seen various websites list this output as RMS but even if it is max, I would guess the rms to be around 800 or 200 per speaker under a 2ohm load.
I must say that I am very impressed with the amp so far, the speakers perform very well and are more than perfect for normal viewing, but I always want more!! I can turn the amp up to maybe 50% before the speakers begin to fail during heavy bass scenes. This is why I am looking to upgrade the drivers.
Sorry for the long post, I hope this answers some of the quesitons you had. I look forward to your replies!!
write to www.ficaraudio.com and tell them you want 4 -10" woofers which fit in that size enclosure and they need to handle a little more power. with a efficient coil design.
they will build you 4 woofers that has/have lower freq extension than your peerless drivers can give, and the woofers will have more excursion and look and are heavier duty.
it sounds like you have more than enough power. but have a musicaly designed sub being used for big movie impact.
maybe your sub amp has a boosted freq range and over drives the woofer at certain freq's.
another route would be sell the 4 10" boxes and build two 15" woofer cabinets and ......................................thats not what you want to hear.................but fi knows woofers
atleast you know what size cabinet you are working with.
and power you have.
sell the peerless' and put towards 4 new tens
they will build you 4 woofers that has/have lower freq extension than your peerless drivers can give, and the woofers will have more excursion and look and are heavier duty.
it sounds like you have more than enough power. but have a musicaly designed sub being used for big movie impact.
maybe your sub amp has a boosted freq range and over drives the woofer at certain freq's.
another route would be sell the 4 10" boxes and build two 15" woofer cabinets and ......................................thats not what you want to hear.................but fi knows woofers
atleast you know what size cabinet you are working with.
and power you have.
sell the peerless' and put towards 4 new tens
brox : Do you mean these? : http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/iwb10ps.html ??
... looks like they were meant for a custom sealed box as you say:
Cabinet Dimensions:
Width 13-1/2" (34.3cm)
Height 13-1/2" (34.3cm)
Depth 9" (22.8cm) ... = about ~ 1.7 cuft ... solid choice.
Can you hear any difference with and/or without the yellow foam ??
... looks like they were meant for a custom sealed box as you say:Cabinet Dimensions:
Width 13-1/2" (34.3cm)
Height 13-1/2" (34.3cm)
Depth 9" (22.8cm) ... = about ~ 1.7 cuft ... solid choice.
Can you hear any difference with and/or without the yellow foam ??
The box looks exactly like the one in the link but the dimensions are different, mine are taller and a little deeper, but otherwise almost identical. However, mine are passive whereas the newer versions are powered.
I haven't pulled out the foam to listen test the difference in sound. Forgive my ignorance, but what would a box with no foam/dampening sound like compared to a box that is dampened?
I haven't pulled out the foam to listen test the difference in sound. Forgive my ignorance, but what would a box with no foam/dampening sound like compared to a box that is dampened?
" ... what would a box with no foam/dampening sound like ..."
I have that Pyle driver mentioned above in a very old, sealed "ready made" BSR subwoofer box that has no stuffing at all and I sure like the sound = very tight bass, no apparent distortion or "spikey" response curve ... 'course I'm driving it from only 150 watts (capable of 1K, says so in the Pyle hype).
I have that Pyle driver mentioned above in a very old, sealed "ready made" BSR subwoofer box that has no stuffing at all and I sure like the sound = very tight bass, no apparent distortion or "spikey" response curve ... 'course I'm driving it from only 150 watts (capable of 1K, says so in the Pyle hype).
FastEddy said:Cheap and reliable ... http://www.justwoofers.com/Woofer_Pages/Pyle/Pyle_PL-BL.htm
I have one of these 12 inchers in a sealed ~ 5 cuft sealed box driven by aussieamplifiers.com MOSFET 400 watt modules (from active low pass crossover ~ 100 Htz.) and can report a very tight response, solid bass. I chose these "road worthy" el cheapo's 'cause I didn't want my nieces and nephews crankin' 'er up and blowing it out = can't happen.
Other models: http://www.justwoofers.com/Woofer_Pages/Pyle/pyle_main.htm
(Cal is right though ... the best 10" sub is 15")
Car drivers usually aren't that good for HT. Also, that site doesn't list freq. responses for the drivers, which concerns me.
brox said:
Hi,
The current Triad Inwall subs are also passive - with the appropriate amp being rack mounted.
You could always follow triads own example and use some Peerless XLS 10" drivers
(as I believe they do now), they should provide a bit more excursion and headroom than the older units.They might need a bit of EQ to get them flat to 20hz though (Triad's amps give the option of using EQ boost or not).
Paul.
" ... that site doesn't list freq. responses for the drivers, which concerns me. ..."
And thst is not necessarily a liability. You can roll your own response curve with a pink noise generator and a cheap 'scope and/or a cheap SPL meter once installed in your box. The "better" drivers do have published response curves, but the results vary widely when installed in DIY boxes and room placements.
Orginal thread Q&A: " ... feed each 10 with about 400 watts/rms and I want subs that I can drive HARD and LOW with little to no distortion ..." ... The response curve being secondary to reliability and reduced distrotion ??
And thst is not necessarily a liability. You can roll your own response curve with a pink noise generator and a cheap 'scope and/or a cheap SPL meter once installed in your box. The "better" drivers do have published response curves, but the results vary widely when installed in DIY boxes and room placements.
Orginal thread Q&A: " ... feed each 10 with about 400 watts/rms and I want subs that I can drive HARD and LOW with little to no distortion ..." ... The response curve being secondary to reliability and reduced distrotion ??
Why hasn't anyone mentioned this 10in Vifa MA26WR09-04? Too expensive?
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=9327762.14955&pid=1808
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=9327762.14955&pid=1808
Thank you all for your input!
I am possibly considering modifying 2 of the 4 boxes to hold 12 inch subs and leaving the other 2 for 10 inch subs. Assuming the new speakers are matched properly to the box size, does anyone see any problem with this? I would use the same brand of speaker just 2 10's and 2 12's.......
I am possibly considering modifying 2 of the 4 boxes to hold 12 inch subs and leaving the other 2 for 10 inch subs. Assuming the new speakers are matched properly to the box size, does anyone see any problem with this? I would use the same brand of speaker just 2 10's and 2 12's.......
Just to mention it before you buy drivers; If you have the sufficient power, max SPL in a closed box is entirely given by cone area and maximum stroke for the driver. So XLS/XXLS is good choices.
But there are several versions of XLS/XXLS. My suggestion for you is to connect the two coils of each XXLS 830847 (12") in series and then again connect the four drivers in paralell. Then you end up with total of 4 ohm nominal and 2,5 ohm minimum. Then your amp won't be tortured Max linear SPL is then 106dB at 20Hz, and max SPL before mechanical breakdown is ca.111dB at 20Hz. What power you need for theese levels is depending of your box volume. If you have 50ltr to each driver you will need a amp of 250W/4ohm for 106dB and 900W/4 ohm for 111dB. Last value is only theoretical with no compression in driver. You will probably need some more power to destroy it.
This was for 20Hz. At 40Hz you'll have 10dB more with only about 2/3 of the excursion.
But there are several versions of XLS/XXLS. My suggestion for you is to connect the two coils of each XXLS 830847 (12") in series and then again connect the four drivers in paralell. Then you end up with total of 4 ohm nominal and 2,5 ohm minimum. Then your amp won't be tortured
Max linear SPL is then 106dB at 20Hz, and max SPL before mechanical breakdown is ca.111dB at 20Hz. What power you need for theese levels is depending of your box volume. If you have 50ltr to each driver you will need a amp of 250W/4ohm for 106dB and 900W/4 ohm for 111dB. Last value is only theoretical with no compression in driver. You will probably need some more power to destroy it.This was for 20Hz. At 40Hz you'll have 10dB more with only about 2/3 of the excursion.
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