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-   -   i want speaker to disappear (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/84252-speaker-disappear.html)

cotdt 5th August 2006 10:14 AM

i want speaker to disappear
 
i want a speaker that disappears, i mean that i want to not be able to tell where the sound is coming from. of course there will have to be some top-end attenuation. i want the speakers to sound detailed and heavenly. i already gots some accurate low-distortion speakers so now i want to try something different, something heavenly. looking for pointers on the drivers. i don't think i'll be using a tweeter since that allows me to pinpoint the source of the sound, and that is not heavenly. helper tweeter is no thnx. not much output is needed either, so 0.1mm xmax is fine and i have no problem building outrageous enclosures as long as they are small enough to put on my computer desk. the speakers will be used solely for playing video games like old skool RPGs and DOOM, maybe some Oblivion too. i'm sure you all have some heavenly experiences to share. thnx gentlemen, fullrange speakers are thnx.

Scottmoose 5th August 2006 04:39 PM

Hmm. Something like a pair of FE167Es in a ~25 litre ported box could be a way forward. Thing is, I think you've got a couple of contradictory requirements. Heavenly sound -but for use playing Doom? Don't get me wrong, I was addicted to Doom when it first came out (Oh dear -that was about 13 years ago. I'm getting old!) and still consider it to be the best PC game since the pre-sliced-bread days. But full-range drivers are not perhaps the best solution to this requirement -you won't get much bass extension -they need big enclosures to do that. Like a 4 foot tall TL enclosure or a 6 foot tall pair of horns, neither of which are going to fit well on your desk. 80Hz or so will be about the limit I suspect.

soongsc 5th August 2006 05:19 PM

Anyone tried having the driver portion on top of the desk and the TL or horn portion extending down along the sides of a desk?

ScottG 5th August 2006 05:23 PM

Re: i want speaker to disappear
 
Quote:

Originally posted by cotdt
i want a speaker that disappears, i mean that i want to not be able to tell where the sound is coming from. of course there will have to be some top-end attenuation. i want the speakers to sound detailed and heavenly. i already gots some accurate low-distortion speakers so now i want to try something different, something heavenly. looking for pointers on the drivers. i don't think i'll be using a tweeter since that allows me to pinpoint the source of the sound, and that is not heavenly. helper tweeter is no thnx. not much output is needed either, so 0.1mm xmax is fine and i have no problem building outrageous enclosures as long as they are small enough to put on my computer desk. the speakers will be used solely for playing video games like old skool RPGs and DOOM, maybe some Oblivion too. i'm sure you all have some heavenly experiences to share. thnx gentlemen, fullrange speakers are thnx.
Try to find a Labtec 2040 to purchase - it has this character. (..and no, this is not a joke.)

cotdt 5th August 2006 09:14 PM

I could not even find the Labtec 2040 on google or ebay, so maybe it is even older than DOOM? But if the sound is heavenly, then i will continue to seek for it. In the meantime I will look into the Fostex FE167E's in a small ported box. How should I tune it? Is the midrange clear and heavenly? I don't absolutely need bass, since I'm used to headphones with no bass or even lower midrange. maybe i will try to integrate my 12" subwoofer, but if not, i can live without the deep bass. So can people all agree that the FE167E is heavenly? are there any other suggestions?

ScottG 5th August 2006 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cotdt
I could not even find the Labtec 2040 on google or ebay, so maybe it is even older than DOOM? But if the sound is heavenly, then i will continue to seek for it. In the meantime I will look into the Fostex FE167E's in a small ported box. How should I tune it? Is the midrange clear and heavenly? I don't absolutely need bass, since I'm used to headphones with no bass or even lower midrange. maybe i will try to integrate my 12" subwoofer, but if not, i can live without the deep bass. So can people all agree that the FE167E is heavenly? are there any other suggestions?
the labtec I *think* is about 6-9 years old.. Crappy little fullrange drivers and a small "sub". Doesn't have much treble - but man does it have midrange.

I would think that the fe107e would work well in Tony Gee's Solo 103:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Solo103.html

cotdt 5th August 2006 11:18 PM

ScottG, are you implying that the FE167E's don't sound heavenly while the FE107E's do? I'm just thinking that a small 4" with a tiny xmax might lack body, and we want heavenly so body is thnx. I still need lower midrange for some body and a little bass impact when the monsters attack me. Tony Gee's Solo 103 is described as "Such openness, neutrality and an amazing sound stage with immense depth and width. Every thing can be pin-pointed in the virtual soundscape, every little sound, the turning of a page of sheet music, the breathing of the instrumentalists, its all there." this is exactly what i want for heaven, but i was disappointed when he said that "you canít expect ultra low bass orgies." but i want some bass orgy too, or not heavenly.

So the FE167E is not good? What is good then? Small enclosures are thnx, but they can be tall. Tall is OK. Extension to 80-90Hz would be great, especially with my collection of subwoofers.

blumenco 5th August 2006 11:28 PM

in the nearfeild...
 
try building recommended bass reflex enclosures for the fostex ff85k, or fe87e. those things are ultra detailed and meant for the nearfeild. they certainly have a quality of clarity that cannot be reproduced by any other speakers.

I am personally partial to the ff85k. the fe87e might perhaps be a little more heavenly though. the back loaded horn of fe87e is VERY fun.

your tradeoff with the smaller cabinets and drivers will be a slightly higher sub crossover, like 100 hz.

since you have subs,, no prob right?

Clark

ScottG 5th August 2006 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cotdt
ScottG, are you implying that the FE167E's don't sound heavenly while the FE107E's do? I'm just thinking that a small 4" with a tiny xmax might lack body, and we want heavenly so body is thnx. I still need lower midrange for some body and a little bass impact when the monsters attack me. Tony Gee's Solo 103 is described as "Such openness, neutrality and an amazing sound stage with immense depth and width. Every thing can be pin-pointed in the virtual soundscape, every little sound, the turning of a page of sheet music, the breathing of the instrumentalists, its all there." this is exactly what i want for heaven, but i was disappointed when he said that "you canít expect ultra low bass orgies." but i want some bass orgy too, or not heavenly.

So the FE167E is not good? What is good then? Small enclosures are thnx, but they can be tall. Tall is OK. Extension to 80-90Hz would be great, especially with my collection of subwoofers.

A good subwoofer cross'ed high will provide the bass response with "punch" and "slam".

The larger the driver's diameter - the more diffuse the sound becomes near-field. So no, I would not suggest the FE167E.

blumenco's suggestion however might be excellent, but you can forget a real horn to sit on your desk-top. Additionally neither have enough low freq. extension without a horn and neither allow the use of a bucking magnet because of their back-plates - so the magnetic field could be a problem. Still, I could see a bass-reflex for the ff85k with a sub crossed very high. It also appears to have a large upper midrange dip - this would enhance the "depth" perspective.

Scottmoose 6th August 2006 08:07 AM

That's what bothers me about the smaller drivers. Sound over 75Hz is directional, so you'll end up hearing bass from one place and the rest of the frequency range from another. And with a driver smaller than about 6 1/2in, with a restricted cabinet size, you'd have to cross over way above this point.

Of the tiny driver the FF85K would be my first choice, as was suggested above. But I still wouldn't want to try it for this application. As I say, a 'heavenly' sound (i.e. a pretty sound) and Doom doth not a happy combination make.


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