both the gainclone and most tube amps can be very simple designs and deliver performance that belies their cost but how would they compare to each other.
Say a good gainclone like the gain card (25W) v/s an EL34 PP Triode or UL (15-30W) ?
BTW I did read the thread comparing the gainclone to Leach etc..but that was a SS only comparision and I did not see the AKSA mentioned.
Say a good gainclone like the gain card (25W) v/s an EL34 PP Triode or UL (15-30W) ?
BTW I did read the thread comparing the gainclone to Leach etc..but that was a SS only comparision and I did not see the AKSA mentioned.
I had the chance to compare a GC with a 3 stage DIY PP 20W classA triode, both made by me. The tubed amp kills the GC in every department. But the GC is way too good for the time and effort. Its certainly cool and fast sounding. For those that havent experienced the GC, I can say that it reminds a lot low powered Naim Audio models for tonality and pace.
Here, you can find an interesting comparison of a Gainclone vs Tube:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audiosector/patek_4.html
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audiosector/patek_4.html
navin said:
Check the second letter here:
http://www.6moons.com/lettersfeedback/lettersfeedback.html
navin said:
Joe Rasmussen has a wellknown hybrid:
Tube + LM3875
Joe homepage:
http://www.customanalogue.com/diytubegainclone/index.htm
diyaudio thread:
Tube with Power IC Output Stage - JLTi
latest version tnt-audio review:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/jlti_mk2_e.html
I use tube pre (Bottlehead foreplay) with IGC power amp.navin said:
Suits me.
Almost everything I've read about gainclones says, you want a right-sized power supply that can supply current at a moment's notice. Battery PS has been recommended, as has hi-cap Carlos AC PS. Regulated PS gets mixed reviews, personally I think regulation just gets in the way of supplying current to the IC. To me, a well-implemented GC is inherently low-noise, regulated PS doesn't appeal, but that isn't dogmatic.
The catch with tubes is that they require good iron. That's the thing that has struck me, again and again, while looking into these things. And good iron = $$$.
Navin,
I've had excellent results driving a chipamp (Gaincard) with a tube preamp (both Cary SLP-94 and Bottlehead Foreplay). To me the Gaincard by itself is just slightly too clinical, but with a good tube pre it gets the best of both worlds.
I also own a few tube amps, Audio Note Kit One and Sun Audio 300B's as well as Dynaco ST-35 and Scott 222C, and I put the tube pre + Gaincard combo right up there at the top with the two 300B amps.
With the right speakers, the 300B amps can be magical, but the tube pre + Gaincard combo is right up there in terms of satisfaction.
Without the tube pre, though, the Gaincard is just a very little bit too clinical for my tastes.
With what Peter has been able to achieve with his amps, I highly reccomend you look into the chipamp kits on his site and on BrianGT's site. With the proper parts and assembly, you might be able to assemble something that can rival the Gaincard.
These kits are for sure some of the best deals in high-performance audio right now, along with the Charlize class-D amps. They're an amazing value for your money and great amps, period.
Best,
KT
I've had excellent results driving a chipamp (Gaincard) with a tube preamp (both Cary SLP-94 and Bottlehead Foreplay). To me the Gaincard by itself is just slightly too clinical, but with a good tube pre it gets the best of both worlds.
I also own a few tube amps, Audio Note Kit One and Sun Audio 300B's as well as Dynaco ST-35 and Scott 222C, and I put the tube pre + Gaincard combo right up there at the top with the two 300B amps.
With the right speakers, the 300B amps can be magical, but the tube pre + Gaincard combo is right up there in terms of satisfaction.
Without the tube pre, though, the Gaincard is just a very little bit too clinical for my tastes.
With what Peter has been able to achieve with his amps, I highly reccomend you look into the chipamp kits on his site and on BrianGT's site. With the proper parts and assembly, you might be able to assemble something that can rival the Gaincard.
These kits are for sure some of the best deals in high-performance audio right now, along with the Charlize class-D amps. They're an amazing value for your money and great amps, period.
Best,
KT
Many regard the distortive effects to play a significant part - 2nd harmonics produced by a tube sound "nicer" than 7th (help me out if I'm straying guys!) order harmonics from solid state; imagine playing two consecutive notes on a piano, say C & D together: result - horrible! Play C & E together: result - pleasant.
There is also talk of the effect that output capacitors have on the signal; an interesting argument that resulted in Suzan Parker's Zeus: http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/audiophonics.html
There is also talk of the effect that output capacitors have on the signal; an interesting argument that resulted in Suzan Parker's Zeus: http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/audiophonics.html
KT,
Just an excellent description. I have found the same thing. When I used the gainclone by itself with a volume pot I enjoyed it alot but I had to use certain parts for really good results. Like carbon film as feedback resistor, tantalum input and bc component capacitor(not panasonic fc, although the lower lines of panasonic such as the m cap probably would have worked). I'm now using it with a transformer coupled tube pre amp and it is a more satisfying listen. I prefer it over my other amp which is a triode se el84. So the gain clones are truly excellent in my view.
Just an excellent description. I have found the same thing. When I used the gainclone by itself with a volume pot I enjoyed it alot but I had to use certain parts for really good results. Like carbon film as feedback resistor, tantalum input and bc component capacitor(not panasonic fc, although the lower lines of panasonic such as the m cap probably would have worked). I'm now using it with a transformer coupled tube pre amp and it is a more satisfying listen. I prefer it over my other amp which is a triode se el84. So the gain clones are truly excellent in my view.
Navin,
The gainclones are not capable of the truly real sound of some of the tube amps I've owned. They don't do the gobs of air and perfect tonal colors that those amps can. The clones never really sound totally real. What they do so well is sound very coherent and musical on a scale that surpasses many tube amps.
The gainclones are not capable of the truly real sound of some of the tube amps I've owned. They don't do the gobs of air and perfect tonal colors that those amps can. The clones never really sound totally real. What they do so well is sound very coherent and musical on a scale that surpasses many tube amps.
My one friend says that tube amps automatically correct driver movement , as a result of output transformer(Some type of feedback).
I don't really understand how does it work.
Loadspeaker generates a lot more distortion that amplifier , so improving its quality even a bit would result in a sensible cleaner sound.
I don't really think that human can distinguish a distortion of 0,002% of a good amplifier - it may be below our ear's sensitivity !
Lukas
I don't really understand how does it work.
Loadspeaker generates a lot more distortion that amplifier , so improving its quality even a bit would result in a sensible cleaner sound.
I don't really think that human can distinguish a distortion of 0,002% of a good amplifier - it may be below our ear's sensitivity !
Lukas
navin said:
Navin,
Don't get me wrong - a good EL34 amp can be very musical. The Dynaco ST-35 is really satisfying as is the Scott 222C (6BQ5). Just look at the Gainclone as another worthy option. Both have their own kind of sound, so you may like one better than the other.
The nice thing about the Gainclone (and class-D Charlize) is that they're relatively inexpensive to build.
Just to clarify, I think the 300B's with a proper speaker (horn or Lowther) can be mesmerizing. The Gaincard with tube pre is not as magical but it's very satisfying and it's what I've chosen to use for my everyday listening (it's much more practical - no burning up 300B's when I fall asleep at night).
I spent a long time optimizing the system (many trials with different signal caps, gridstopper resistors, potentiometers, etc.), and let me tell you it's not just "tube pre and Gaincard" that sound good. Rather, it's synergy of the whole system including the caps, resistors, pots, and tubes in the preamp.
In testing various combination of parts, I've gotten the system to sound really great to my ear only twice. With all the other combinations of caps, resistors, and pots I've tried, the system didn't sound right to me - so much so that I wouldn't have bought the system had I been auditioning it in an audio store.
So the Gaincard and tube pre combo sounds good, but it doesn't fully do it for me until I get the sound just right by balancing the sonic flavors of the preamp parts. This makes or breaks the system for me in terms of whether I want to listen to it or not.
BTW, I set up the Dynaco ST-35 with Klipsch Heresy speakers and an old Adcom GFP-565 preamp for my brother and was always pleased at how good it sounded. The EL34's can sound very nice.
Best,
KT
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