I need help from Portugal, informs related Portuguese equipment brands and more....

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I need some help related "how to obtain" general informations about Portugal.

Of course i want to know the Portuguese Electronic factories, but needing something more special.

Help...Socorram-me irmãos Portuguêses!

My best Friend, Mr. Paulo Lima (has Portuguese Ancestors as everybody here) and his wife, are studying the possibility to Imigrate to Portugal.

She is PHD in Administration (Administração de Empresas)...e êle tem curso superior na mesma área...ambos com 34 anos.

Both have 34 years old, and she is working in one Brazilian Governemnt enormous University, beeing a teacher... She has PHD and the income is around 2K dollares...and this is enormous money here!

He is working for a Petrol Company, a stranger Petrol Company and his income is 1000 dolares.

Well, they are thinking to emigrate, having the idea that Portugal is extremelly rich, because member of European Communitty, and i have my doubts if Portugal is really in good position with near "economic monsters" as Germany, Italy, French and others.

As Paulo's wife has better conditions to find an employment using contacts made in Brazil, to be a teacher in some Portuguese University, because of PHD and because she is the second generation of a Portuguese Family that imigrate to brazil recently..around 1940...she already enter the documents to be a Portuguese Citizen, but he will have a little more problems, as he have not documents to prove his Portuguese Ancestors (no doubt Lima is Portuguese name)..but he will go as "husband" only, needing to wait 6 monthes to start to work.

Well, they are thinking that Portugal is wonderfull, that have any problems, that everybody has beautifull jobs, and income is magnificent and social ensurance perfect...that Portugal have not corruption and have not big problems.

I am watching RTP, and i could see that the true is not really this way..there are problems, industries moving to east Europe, because hard to pay employees in Portugal...so... employment is going down...competition inside Europen Comunitty is hard, and some problems are appearing... weather problems, fires in Portugal, industries of costums are closing their doors...fish industry having problems and exportation not so big...wines having competition with France, Italy and Germany... Military personal on strike for more decent payment..so...things do not seem to be so beautifull as my friend is thinking....i am afraid that he can reach some desilusion.

As living with his income here , he is some kind of king, he can pay wonderfull appartment in front of the beach...he can have a Maid to help him full time... he has two cars, 5 televisions, 6 sound systems, many photographic cameras and have a confortable life, going to travel in the weekends and going to dinner in good restaurants, travelling using airplane to visit friends...well..he can do that and put in his reserve 1000 dolares each month easy!.... and expending money really hard...going out everyday to spend money in restaurants....spending really!..so...a very confortable life.

He is watching the social security, someone told that if someone loose his job, social ensurance you pay 80 percent of his last income till he find a job...and better than that!.... Portuguese Government will search the job for him....well, this is too good to be true...i have my doubts, may have limits, time limits and some problems inside this social ensurance program.

A friend, a girl gone and worked in Portugal taking care of Babies...she return telling wonderfull things...of course.... she was having place to sleep....food daily and payment free!...beeing something alike a full time maid and taking care of babies...cleaning house.... washing pants.... cooking and taking care of baby...hehe..of course!..doing so many things!...result free!...income free....nothing to pay!>..no light, no food, no bed to sleep...nothing!.

Well, there are many Portuguese guys in this forum.... so...i am asking you to inform the real sittuation of Portugal.... a fair description without pride...real thing!

As i want to inform him. before he start the procedure to go to Portugal, thinking in one way travel.

This thread will be send for some place.... well, i believe that will stay for some minutes, and can be time enougth to someone from Portugal read that.... i will also send direct mails to "all" Portuguese forum guys...to have all detailing informs possible..without passion and without Nationalism.

I thank you all...the moderators because the patiente with the Off Topic for audio....well.... more or less...i have also interest to know the Portuguese factories and amplifiers made in Portugal...but really..the biggest need are informations about Portugal conditions to emigration.

regards,

Carlos
 
Re: I need help from Portugal, informs related Portuguese equipment brands and more....

destroyer X said:
Both have 34 years old, and she is working in one Brazilian Governemnt enormous University, beeing a teacher... She has PHD and the income is around 2K dollares...and this is enormous money here!

He is working for a Petrol Company, a stranger Petrol Company and his income is 1000 dolares.

Well, they are thinking to emigrate, having the idea that Portugal is extremelly rich, because member of European Communitty, and i have my doubts if Portugal is really in good position with near "economic monsters" as Germany, Italy, French and others.

Oi Carlos,

Any of these countries you mention, and some others in Europe are, of course, much richer than Portugal.
One thing we have in common (Brazil and Portugal) is that we speak the same language.

But in their position, and with their income (which is very good in Brazil and average in Portugal, for their work) I would not go abroad.
You can live very well in Brazil with that kind of money.
Here, life is much more expensive, and the extra income easily goes away with all the expenses.

There are lots of retired portuguese going to your beautiful country, because with the retirement from here one can live much better in Brazil.

We will continue this privately, I see something on my e-mail. ;)

Um abraço
 
Thank you Carlos, informs good, having Portuguese Amplifier schematics, pictures or

links, they will be interesting too...of course.

I thank you very much...MP3 audio sent to you, and i am preparing, with your permission, to mail to our Portuguese forum friends, to have more informations, that may be alike the one you sent... if we found some Portuguese diy material i will invite them to post here..if not, they will go to my direct mail.

I am preparing some massive documentation, to have the chance to convince my best friend not to kick big fat Charlie, and move to Portugal.

He is a very good friend, the best i made in my life.... around 20 years of good relatioship, without any figth, always the pleasure to have true conversations.

Now the guy appeared with this idea, of course, i have deep concerns with his intention to move....he is more young than i am, i have met him when a boy, finishing hi school, a radio amateur friend talking about UFO....he is something as a "son" to me.

Carlos, meu estimado, caso tenhas algo, publique, para sustentar essa thread por mais algum tempo.

Carlos, my dear, if you have something, related diy audio, from Portugal, please, publish it here, to keep this thread alive for more time, as i suspect it is beeing keept alive because enormous tollerance of friends i have...but they will cannot keep that sittuation for too long...help!...put something related audio for more a day alive!

My friend from Argentina, also Carlos, a very good professional of audio, already received the Justice Hammer!, as fabric for Speaker is something to Speaker forum....and we are something to other place if we do not incluse, as soon as possible, some Portuguese diy audio material..any professional Portuguese audio equipment, will help us to see what you have been doing in you country, and will give us some more time.......if not, they will, and with good reason, ahahahahaha!... "snuberize us!"

regards,

Carlos
 
Hi Carlos,

I loved your message, and I subscribe to practically everything you say there.
I'm going to answer your e-mail.

No, this is not the El Dorado.
As I said, with such an income, I would not get out of Brazil.:att'n:
Now you have to be a real good friend and advise him what's best for his life and his family.
Now to answer to your e-mail...

Ça marche. :D
 
carlosfm said:

No, this is not the El Dorado.
As I said, with such an income, I would not get out of Brazil.:att'n:
Now you have to be a real good friend and advise him what's best for his life and his family.
Now to answer to your e-mail...


Now it's three Carlos against the World!

What Carlos Destroyer means, I think, is that his friend expects to earn a much higher income when in Europe.

And to improve in other areas that may be better there: education, public health, stable economy, etc.

If I were younger I would start another immigration movement myself. And we have considered, with my wife, when we retire, to go to a different place. Spain and Portugal were two options, at least because we speak the languages.



Carlos
 
diyAudio Editor
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Since they have a decent income, they should visit Portugal first.
Even if it takes some sacrifice to pay for the trip. It could be a vacation, but also they should make appointments at potential employers, universities, etc. and see what the interest is and the salaries paid..Perhaps write to department heads... Then visit houses and apartments for sale and rent to see the costs. Not as much fun as being a tourist but if they don't want to bother with this then they are being very irresponsible.

I am also considering a move to another country, and it is a difficult decision. It is more difficult because I have visited the place many times and know that it isn't perfect.

For them it isn't a difficult decision because they are, well, ignorant and they can just imagine the situation as they want to. A great possibility is that jobs in their fields are quite difficult to get and as the various carlos' ;) say, the cost of living might make their life MORE difficult than in Brazil..
 
carlmart said:
Now it's three Carlos against the World!

What Carlos Destroyer means, I think, is that his friend expects to earn a much higher income when in Europe.

Ok, let me put it this way: I am portuguese and I know what things cost here.
I know how much I pay monthly for my (normal) house, how much a normal car costs, how much the fuel costs, how much my kid's school costs and all the expenses.
I have friends and family that went to Brazil for holidays, and I've heard Carlos' (DestroyerX) private message to me.
I'm very sure that his friends can't make here the same kind of life they do in Brazil with that income.
Even if you double the income here, to rent a house with a sea view it's more like 1000€ and up, not $200 as Carlos says it costs in Brazil.
So, they would need both a much above average income here to have everything they have and what they are used to.
Doesn't seem an easy task.

carlmart said:
If I were younger I would start another immigration movement myself.

Me too.

carlmart said:
And we have considered, with my wife, when we retire, to go to a different place.

That's an option, maybe.

PS: I can't be more sincere. Portugal is a good place for those from rich European countries that have a large retirement income.
They come here and live very well.
 
carlosfm said:

Ok, let me put it this way: I am portuguese and I know what things cost here.
I know how much I pay monthly for my (normal) house, how much a normal car costs, how much the fuel costs, how much my kid's school costs and all the expenses.
I have friends and family that went to Brazil for holidays, and I've heard Carlos' (DestroyerX) private message to me.
I'm very sure that his friends can't make here the same kind of life they do in Brazil with that income.
Even if you double the income here, to rent a house with a sea view it's more like 1000€ and up, not $200 as Carlos says it costs in Brazil.
So, they would need both a much above average income here to have everything they have and what they are used to.
Doesn't seem an easy task.


Sorry to disagree with CarlosDX, but you don't rent a house like that in Rio de Janeiro. And you may need a lot more than 1000€ for that too.

Prices in other Portuguese cities are probably lower, but certainly not in Lisbon. Expenses are probably lower where CarlosDX lives too, and house-help is certainly much cheaper in Brasil all over than in Portugal.

Going to a foreign country without a job and without some hope to get one soon is probably not a very good idea. That should be the main matter to think on.

Immigration is something I can personally talk about and certainly know a lot of. Far from an easy task if you are not very young.


Carlos
 
I think that, if we have problems in our own country, with our brothers, having the

same culture...where you know the "game rules"... and even living confortable in your own country you start to think in find another place to leave, with the intention to have the confort that already have, maybe with the intention to be more happy.

Probably will make bad business, because that strange thing, the happyness is something personal, and do not depends of money and the place we are living....it is something natural we have or not.

If we feel unhappy and we move to another country, i have strong suspections that we gonna feel worst, as many differences will appear, you will always feeling that is in the wrong place...people talking strange language..having strange ideas.

I moved from Rio de Janeiro.... a french town...having many french uses when i lived there...now... 3K kilometer North direction i feel myself as in another country.... things broke in the elevator and nobody fix.... paint start to be damaged and no one matter...people let children play football inside appartments making noises...and when they make parties they use to blow all the ballons, making enormous noise...a very stupid way to finish parties.... exploding plastic balloons..... i used to go home with my ballon and play with it till unflate....here they blow!.... i am always feeling bad related the culture differences...and inside the same country, that is enormous, but with enormous differences related education, rules and procedures.

My idea is.... feeling bad in our own country....probably will feel worst in other stranger place...will never be entirelly happy, always dreaming the day to return.

No place is better than the place our mother, father and family born...our land is our mother, as when buried, we will mix ourselves with our land...and we have this feeling...the connection with mother land.... we call Nationality...but is love for our place.

I was visiting Japan and USA for 6 monthes.... two wonderfull places, in special Los Angeles..... my dream place....the place!...but when time passed i start to perceive that people are not happy as my poor brasilian people..... streets without people...everybody inside homes.... no neighboors talking...very cold and lonely.... depressive to me...i was crazy to return...and i cried deeply with emotion when i saw the Christ when the airplane was near to land in the Rio de Janeiro International Airport....some Bossa Nova song started to play inside my mind.

My soul is singing
I can see Rio de Janeiro
I was missing you deeply

Minha alma canta
Vejo o Rio de Janeiro
Estou morrendo de saudades

No!...negative to change country...my place?...negative!

Aqui é bem mais barato Hermano... 300 dolares defronte ao mar...tenho dois pra alugar...queres?

Here the rental price is reduced, as my place is more poor than Rio de Janeiro... 300 dollares, 140 meters appartment in front of the sea..hehe..taxes (all) included, two elevators, two places for car in the garage, Swiming Pool, Party Sallon, Futebol place, tênis place and Cooper walking place inside the building..i have two to rent brother...do you want one?

Good conversation...but if my dear Carlos FM the Snuberized guy, if he not publish some of diy audio...hehe...we will be kicked from solid state...well...no problem...we can continue to have good talk everywhere....no problem.

regards,

Carlos
 
Sorry to say this but I believe that in this land your friends wouldn´t have much luck in finding a job up to their abilities. There was a flux of skilled immigrants from the old Soviet Union that inspite of many of them being doctors, engineers, researchers in their home-land, they work in slave jobs and get miserably payed. Everybody knows some math or some chemistry teacher that now works as the cleaning lady or as a servant in the construction industry. Everybody admires their educated manners and their ability to learn portuguese in a couple of months, but noone cares about their technical manpower that this country keeps ignoring.
The Government, in an atempt to promove people´s tolerance towards immigration, invaded the cities with stupid outdoors at which you´d stare at the photo of a smiling construction worker with the title OBRIGADO VASSILY! I found this unassumedly arrogant and highly offensive and when I ever talked about this to other persons I got giggles as response...
There´s a rush of brazillians right now, most come from the Northeast, aren´t that literate and even some have difficulties in understanding portuguese! If you ask the common man-on-street where he thinks a brazillian might find a job he´ll tell you that brazillians work at restaurants. This is a rather pessimistic point-of-view but I think your friends need to count on that. Once the money runs out I´m afraid that´s where they will find a job for paying the bills.

There is no significant high-end audio industry here. Period. It´s a small market, dominated by the known american and english brands that advertise in Audio magazine. In other countries there is a steady, traditional cottage industry where small businesses started up from DIY. But there´s no such thing in Portugal. Most deep-pocketed customers are just snobs that like to show-off and raise the nose to the sonic marvels that certain geeks bring out from their garage from time to time.
There was this guy Rodfig (Rodrigo Figueira? ) that made a SOLID-STATE ;) preamplifier of which Audio editor Jorge Gonçalves wrote wonders about. From reading the review, I thought it was a bit baroque, as it seems that even the three (3!) blue leds that illuminated the volume control had their own regulated power supply. Everybody talked enthusiastically for a while, their was his promisse of a Krell-killer SOLID-STATE power amp coming, but I guess noone tooked the risk for buying anything and the guy suddenly disappeared from the scene. Mister Gonçalves in a interview with Holbein Menezes, when asked about our national manufacturers forgot to mention his name.
There was this one guy that made a mid-priced pre and power combo that may have sold a few units because his brand was named JG Audio and some people thought were named after the magazine editor.
Another one, Mister Henrique had a small shop in Queluz and was the previous distributor of Visaton and Manger. He launched a line of high-end loudspeakers and valve amplifiers under the Megaudio brand and also disappeared.
There was this Mister Matias that made mercury loaded cables. Everyone into audio whom I was introduced to asked me if I was him.
I tried to run a cable manufacturing business a few years ago, just for fun and patriotism as I always had a steady job as a railway engineer, and the moment dealers started to order "more of this one and more of that one" it quickly turned me off. I realized I didn´t want to make allways the same cable in large quantities. Mea Culpa.
Another gentleman, Rui Borges, a friend who I need to visit more, is an authority in turntables. He´s a master artesan who builds turntables that put some exotic designs to shame. He is like me, just wants to build one-offs, every TT he makes is different from the others. He now has his own shop, Delmax, where he sells "common" high-end and restaurates vintage equipment. He may sell one of his turntables per year.

We rebelled against the fascist dictatorship exactly thirty years ago but in our collective mind we´re still haunted by its heritage. Private initiative was considered dangerous. Salazar told us to save, not to earn. Sometime ago, Avon and Tupperware vendors were regarded by neighbours and work coleagues as a kind of bloodsuckers.
When the credit rates were liberated consusmism fired up and everybody went out and bought new houses, new cars and new washing machines. We stopped saving and it´s about time for us to start making money.

It´s a paradox, but I believe that in this country that disregards the immigrant workers real technical knowledge, a foreigner might be succsessful if he established here and launched a line of products in the audio business. There are some brazillian products that are highly regarded in Europe, such as the Audiopax amplifiers and Duende Criatura tube rings. All that is required is a little investment and the patience to overcome the kafkian burocracy that has turned Portugal into Europe´s worst country to start a new business. Your friends may be succsessful after that. Who knows?

This is my sincere opinion.
Does it look pessimistic? Hey! I´m portuguese ;)

Cheers and good luck to your friends.
 
Paulo Simões, muito grato, vossa narrativa foi perfeita.

Mr. Paul Simons, many thanks, your narrative was perfect!

I agree completely with you, i could understand the meanings and the feeling involved.

Your informations was enormous valuable, as my friend is searching for external solution when his problem is rigth here.

A lovely wife that do not let him stay alone for a minute and 2 bad guys in his job, both are near to be kicked out, to be fired out because corrupted and bad guys, some law judgement is waiting for them...my friend need to find some better adaptation related his beloved and dedicated wife, that use all the air he has around, and to finish negociations (he already started) to jump out of the place he is working.

Searching solutions outside...when problems are inside his soul...he lost his daddy...he could not perceive, but i think he is searching his daddy, already dead, trying to return to his daddy ancestor land...those things that we cannot tell the man directly as they will never believe...they have to discover by themselves.

I thank you very much, the time you dispose to help me, the enormous capacity to organize ideas and the perfect portuguese writting...... i am sorry, as we destroy your beautifull language...our language too,but we go creating therms that some can have the idea that is a result of evolution of Portuguese language, and others will perceive as some destruction...i really believe the second...and the worst...as we are bigger in number... that use can infiltrate and polute your culture.

I know the meaning of literate Northeastern brazilian people...i understood you deeply, as i did not born here and i can perceive differences that match your analisis.

regards

....e muito obrigado,....obrigado mesmo!

seu criado (your servant, at your service when needed)

Carlos
 
Here is the Portuguese phono cartridge Carlos is showing us

The image is something i could find.

Thanks to Carlos FM.

regards,

Carlos
 

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Muito grato pessoal, thank you very much folks....my friend, Mr. Paulo Lima

Has already this adress to read this forum.

So, i have to thank you very much, as we already have some informs from brazilians living in Portugal, and now Portuguese informs will make things more precise.

Unfortunattelly, the "Universe", related statistics are not so big, i think it is some good indication to him.

Now, i will let the destiny take care of the things...i do not believe God will let this good friend go away from me...something will happen to protect me...as always happened in my life.

regards,

Carlos
 
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