Hi,
As you can tell from the subject I am in the market for a really good speaker kit, the max I want to spend is $1000. I have been scouring the internet for the past two months and I think I have found a good kit, it's the S5 MT from Bemberg Engineering: http://www.bamberglab.com/s5mt.shtml
What do you guys think? It's a bit over my budget but I would buy it piece by piece.
Are there any better sounding kit around for a similar price?
Al suggestions are welcome.
Thanks
Lawrence
As you can tell from the subject I am in the market for a really good speaker kit, the max I want to spend is $1000. I have been scouring the internet for the past two months and I think I have found a good kit, it's the S5 MT from Bemberg Engineering: http://www.bamberglab.com/s5mt.shtml
What do you guys think? It's a bit over my budget but I would buy it piece by piece.
Are there any better sounding kit around for a similar price?
Al suggestions are welcome.
Thanks
Lawrence
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
Can you tell us more about your
1. Room
2. Room
3. Room
4. Listening positioning and loudness preferences.
IME there is nothing wrong with low sensitivity speakers IF you have lots of good clean power to drive them (>100 watts per channel) AND you intend to place them in a small to medium sized room, listening at small to medium volume levels.
It seems that almost all 2 driver 2 ways will fall into this category of mid to low 80s sensitivity.
In a bigger room and at live-like levels (80dB sustained and 110dB transient peaks not at 1 metre but at typical seated/standing position say 3 metres away) I agree with Bill, you want something higher in sensivity and, higher power handling.
1. Room
2. Room
3. Room
4. Listening positioning and loudness preferences.
IME there is nothing wrong with low sensitivity speakers IF you have lots of good clean power to drive them (>100 watts per channel) AND you intend to place them in a small to medium sized room, listening at small to medium volume levels.
It seems that almost all 2 driver 2 ways will fall into this category of mid to low 80s sensitivity.
In a bigger room and at live-like levels (80dB sustained and 110dB transient peaks not at 1 metre but at typical seated/standing position say 3 metres away) I agree with Bill, you want something higher in sensivity and, higher power handling.
Thanks for the replys so far.
My room is actually my dorm room so its not very big, actually its small, its about 13 x 19 feet. My listening position is about 1.5 meters away. I dont mind low sensitivity that much, I have plans to build a pair of UCD400 amps anyway. I listen at moderate levels mostly.
Thanks
My room is actually my dorm room so its not very big, actually its small, its about 13 x 19 feet. My listening position is about 1.5 meters away. I dont mind low sensitivity that much, I have plans to build a pair of UCD400 amps anyway. I listen at moderate levels mostly.
Thanks
For nearfield listening and that kind of budget I think you are better off buying a pair of really good full range drivers and use a sub to fill in the low bass if you need to.
If you get drivers with a highish Q then you can go OB with small baffles. I use OB at just under 1.5m and they give a more open and larger image and soundstage than boxed speakers at that distance. I think a multiway speaker is going to be problematic up that close.
OB is especially good in a dorm or apartment environment because you can listen much louder without disturbing your neighbors. A pair of Visaton B200's for example would bring you in well under budget. Plus OB is the simplest to build, easiest to tweak, and IMHO provide the most natural sound.
If you get drivers with a highish Q then you can go OB with small baffles. I use OB at just under 1.5m and they give a more open and larger image and soundstage than boxed speakers at that distance. I think a multiway speaker is going to be problematic up that close.
OB is especially good in a dorm or apartment environment because you can listen much louder without disturbing your neighbors. A pair of Visaton B200's for example would bring you in well under budget. Plus OB is the simplest to build, easiest to tweak, and IMHO provide the most natural sound.
I haven't heard this speaker, however Phil Bamberg has often (and for many years) been referred to as "the King of Crossovers". I have never heard anything but high praise for his designs, so you probably wouldn't go wrong if you took this route. Another design that is probably in the same league is the Ellis 1801 which was designed, IIRC, by Dennis Murphy.
IMNSHO, if you go with either design you'd be starting near the top, given your situation :^)
Best Regards,
TerryO
IMNSHO, if you go with either design you'd be starting near the top, given your situation :^)
Best Regards,
TerryO
For a might be cheaper alternative, still with SEAS metal drivers, you may want to check: http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
But it is not available as kit, though I belive you can ask Madisound on the parts used for this project.
REgards,
---
David
But it is not available as kit, though I belive you can ask Madisound on the parts used for this project.
REgards,
---
David
planet10 said:
I'd suggest getting some foam filled posterboard and duct tape and do some experimenting with the delco's first. In the nearfield like that, probably at a desk near the wall you've got a lot of flexibility and small changes make significant differences. Plus you may have things available that help you cheat with the baffle size (bookshelf, desk, a folded back wing etc.). eg The current setup for mine is having the inside edges of the baffle about 1" from the wall with a layer of polyfill batting draped over the back of the drivers and the baffles steeply toed in forming an equilateral triangle just in front of me. I'm using an FE206E and a helper woofer, but with a higher Qts driver you could get away with something small like a shallow open back box. It will take some experimenting but that's quick and easy with OB, making it fun.
I'm one of those impatient results oriented types with little spare time, so the immediate gratification of tweaking OB's suits me perfectly.
Hey lbm,
A couple of questions:
How will the speakers be used? Music only or for Home theater as well? If HT you definitely want to add a subwoofer, so you could build monitors to have a higher F3 than if they were playing on their own for music.
If music only - what type of music? If it big orchestral or power rock music you might find that some of the single driver kits become a little overwhelmed whereas vocals and small acoustic ensembles can really shine with them. I'd also recommend reading John's take on poly vs. metal vs. paper drivers:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/polyvsmetal.html
Personally, I'd prefer dealing with the resonant peaks of metal cones with active crossovers, which can notch the peak without paying the price of inductors in series with the woofer, phase shifts and loss of sensitivity with passive crossovers. You could buy the drivers for the Bamberg design,a Behringer DCX2496 ($250 at parts express), build 4 channels of amplification and build your cabinets for about a grr.
Other kits to look at are the Vifa, Scan Speak and Thor/Odin:
http://madisound.com/
There are a number of interesting kits at these sites as well:
http://www.zalytron.com/
http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/default.htm
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/
Good luck!
A couple of questions:
How will the speakers be used? Music only or for Home theater as well? If HT you definitely want to add a subwoofer, so you could build monitors to have a higher F3 than if they were playing on their own for music.
If music only - what type of music? If it big orchestral or power rock music you might find that some of the single driver kits become a little overwhelmed whereas vocals and small acoustic ensembles can really shine with them. I'd also recommend reading John's take on poly vs. metal vs. paper drivers:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/polyvsmetal.html
Personally, I'd prefer dealing with the resonant peaks of metal cones with active crossovers, which can notch the peak without paying the price of inductors in series with the woofer, phase shifts and loss of sensitivity with passive crossovers. You could buy the drivers for the Bamberg design,a Behringer DCX2496 ($250 at parts express), build 4 channels of amplification and build your cabinets for about a grr.
Other kits to look at are the Vifa, Scan Speak and Thor/Odin:
http://madisound.com/
There are a number of interesting kits at these sites as well:
http://www.zalytron.com/
http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/default.htm
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/
Good luck!
Thanks a bunch guys for the input though I am still not too sure what to go for.
But so you know, these speakers will be mainly used for music, and an occasional movie. I listen mostly to jazz, and little R&B. Bass is not a problem as I already have a subwoofer.
I discovered these speakers yesterday they look nice but there is no price, I dont think that they would be too expensive, would anyone recommend it?
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/Minuet.htm
Has anyone built or heard the Wonder kit from Zalytron, looks like a good contender?
Right now the Ellis 1801 is at the top of my list as it seems to be a proven design that everyone likes.
Keep the suggestions comming
Thanks
Lawrence
But so you know, these speakers will be mainly used for music, and an occasional movie. I listen mostly to jazz, and little R&B. Bass is not a problem as I already have a subwoofer.
I discovered these speakers yesterday they look nice but there is no price, I dont think that they would be too expensive, would anyone recommend it?
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/Minuet.htm
Has anyone built or heard the Wonder kit from Zalytron, looks like a good contender?
Right now the Ellis 1801 is at the top of my list as it seems to be a proven design that everyone likes.
Keep the suggestions comming
Thanks
Lawrence
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
In a small dorm room and sitting that close, something the size of S5MT, 1801 or John Krujke's L18RNXP/27TBFCG will be more than adequate, maybe even on the large side physically. Phil's designs are sealed, and will definitely require a helping hand from a subwoofer, especially if you're listening to R&B.
All three are reputed to sound great, but I am willing to bet that the greatest difference is the price!- the John Krujke's design is definitely gives the best bang/buck. Even the crossover design is quite elegant- highly optimised yet fairly low on part count (price)
All three are reputed to sound great, but I am willing to bet that the greatest difference is the price!- the John Krujke's design is definitely gives the best bang/buck. Even the crossover design is quite elegant- highly optimised yet fairly low on part count (price)
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