Righto then all here's my dilemma, I'm attempting a bookshelf sized speaker with a Monacor SPH 135C carbon coned midbass. Any body with any experience of this little joker?
I'm hoping to mate this with either a pair of SEAS H398 or Peerless 811815 tweeters. (found locally 2nd hand &cheap
)
Now I've found a few pages from google on the tweeters re crossovers but nowt on the Monacor. Anybody care to help enlighten?!
I've already puchased the 135C's so suggestions of a different driver are too late!!
Any input welcome
Thanks for looking....
Steve
I'm hoping to mate this with either a pair of SEAS H398 or Peerless 811815 tweeters. (found locally 2nd hand &cheap
)Now I've found a few pages from google on the tweeters re crossovers but nowt on the Monacor. Anybody care to help enlighten?!
I've already puchased the 135C's so suggestions of a different driver are too late!!
Any input welcome
Thanks for looking....
Steve
Hi Stee,
If I remember correctly, Wilmslow audio used this driver in a small sealed bookshelf design called the Duet, though now they have discontinued it. It was paired with, I think, a Vifa tweet. They would certainly be worth talking to if you can't source x-o info from anywhere else, though they would charge about £25 for a design. The only other thing that springs to mind is trying the Monacor/other German forums - Sprechen-Sie Deutsch?
Ian
If I remember correctly, Wilmslow audio used this driver in a small sealed bookshelf design called the Duet, though now they have discontinued it. It was paired with, I think, a Vifa tweet. They would certainly be worth talking to if you can't source x-o info from anywhere else, though they would charge about £25 for a design. The only other thing that springs to mind is trying the Monacor/other German forums - Sprechen-Sie Deutsch?
Ian
Cheers for the heads up Ian J. My old German lessons at school led me to a 25% mark so I'm not sure how useful that'd be!
Some specs may help encourage I suppose:
SPH-135C
The nasty break up at 6.5 kHz is what concerns me most. Do I play about with a notch filter to dampen it or should I cross over at say 1-3 kHz and try to eliminate it that way? There specs suggest crossing at 4 kHz max, but that'd leave quite an output still from that spike IMO.
Google shows little from the Duet but someone 'round 'ere has built them. Calling Mark 25 ...
Any comments? Anyone?
Steve
Some specs may help encourage I suppose:
SPH-135C
The nasty break up at 6.5 kHz is what concerns me most. Do I play about with a notch filter to dampen it or should I cross over at say 1-3 kHz and try to eliminate it that way? There specs suggest crossing at 4 kHz max, but that'd leave quite an output still from that spike IMO.
Google shows little from the Duet but someone 'round 'ere has built them. Calling Mark 25
...Any comments? Anyone?
Steve
stee-b said:Cheers for the heads up Ian J. My old German lessons at school led me to a 25% mark so I'm not sure how useful that'd be!
Some specs may help encourage I suppose:
SPH-135C
The nasty break up at 6.5 kHz is what concerns me most. Do I play about with a notch filter to dampen it or should I cross over at say 1-3 kHz and try to eliminate it that way? There specs suggest crossing at 4 kHz max, but that'd leave quite an output still from that spike IMO.
Google shows little from the Duet but someone 'round 'ere has built them. Calling Mark 25
Any comments? Anyone?
Steve
x-over
Mid-bass 12 dB/oct. at 1500-1700 Hz -6 dB point.
Tweeter 12 or 18 dB/oct. at 2100-2500 Hz -3/6 dB point.
No notch filter.
Hello.
I produced 2 pairs of speakers using Monacor SPH 135AD midwoofers. One pair was sealed and other was ported. I used 2nd ordre crossover for tweeters and midwoofers and crossing freq. a 2,5kHz at sealed and 3kHz at ported design. When i compared sound of both pairs, sealed pair has brighter and clearer mids, more controled bass but with less deep bass. Ported design has deeper bass but with less mids. I try to weaken attenuation at tweeter. The sound beacome better but it sounds like I have turned on loudness on amp. f3 of sealed speakers was 75Hz, but ported design has f3 of 50Hz.
I think both of designs sounds great. I think sealed boxes are better for vocal music, but ported are better for hard rock music and music with a lot of bass components.
I produced 2 pairs of speakers using Monacor SPH 135AD midwoofers. One pair was sealed and other was ported. I used 2nd ordre crossover for tweeters and midwoofers and crossing freq. a 2,5kHz at sealed and 3kHz at ported design. When i compared sound of both pairs, sealed pair has brighter and clearer mids, more controled bass but with less deep bass. Ported design has deeper bass but with less mids. I try to weaken attenuation at tweeter. The sound beacome better but it sounds like I have turned on loudness on amp. f3 of sealed speakers was 75Hz, but ported design has f3 of 50Hz.
I think both of designs sounds great. I think sealed boxes are better for vocal music, but ported are better for hard rock music and music with a lot of bass components.
If you strapped for cash and don't want to pay the £25.00 for Wilmslow-Audio to design you a crossover, try www.williamshart.com , as they charge just £10.00 for a crossover design and will email you the schmatic and graphs in just a few days.
I've used the service for my 3-way project and the crossover wrok brilliantly.
Mutley
I've used the service for my 3-way project and the crossover wrok brilliantly.
Mutley
Hello Steve,
cross the SPH-135Cs over at 1.5 kHz. The break up at 6.5 kHz is not the main problem, but the resonance at 1.5 kHz and the decrease in SPL above 1.5 kHz. I guess the Peerless tweeter can handle the low cross over point (if you don´t go too loud).
There is an old design from German magazine Klang&Ton using the SPH-135C with a Morel MDT-29 tweeter, crossing over at 1.5 kHz. It is a floorstander, so keep in mind that positioning close to a wall will change the tonal balance.
Woofer section: R-C parallel, 8.2Ohm-22microF, C parallel, 10 microF, L serial, 1.8mH.
I have built a speaker with SPH-135C and Seas H588, but the design is too specific to be helpful here. If you want to fully exploit the bass potential, use a vented cabinet of 15-20 liters. I would recommend a minimum of 10 liters (vented) or 6 liters (sealed).
Peter
cross the SPH-135Cs over at 1.5 kHz. The break up at 6.5 kHz is not the main problem, but the resonance at 1.5 kHz and the decrease in SPL above 1.5 kHz. I guess the Peerless tweeter can handle the low cross over point (if you don´t go too loud).
There is an old design from German magazine Klang&Ton using the SPH-135C with a Morel MDT-29 tweeter, crossing over at 1.5 kHz. It is a floorstander, so keep in mind that positioning close to a wall will change the tonal balance.
Woofer section: R-C parallel, 8.2Ohm-22microF, C parallel, 10 microF, L serial, 1.8mH.
I have built a speaker with SPH-135C and Seas H588, but the design is too specific to be helpful here. If you want to fully exploit the bass potential, use a vented cabinet of 15-20 liters. I would recommend a minimum of 10 liters (vented) or 6 liters (sealed).
Peter
Hello Steve,
as I´ve seen in the other thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=741504, your speakers using the Monacor SPH-135C look great.
However, my comments on this driver, have been a bit late.
What kind of crossover do you use now and what do the speakers sound like? Considering the free air resonance of 1400 Hz of the Seas, you will not cross over at 1.5 kHz, I suppose?
If you are interested in SPL and distortion data of the woofer (scanned from Klang&Ton), feel free to ask me.
Kind regards
Peter
as I´ve seen in the other thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=741504, your speakers using the Monacor SPH-135C look great.
However, my comments on this driver, have been a bit late.
What kind of crossover do you use now and what do the speakers sound like? Considering the free air resonance of 1400 Hz of the Seas, you will not cross over at 1.5 kHz, I suppose?
If you are interested in SPL and distortion data of the woofer (scanned from Klang&Ton), feel free to ask me.
Kind regards
Peter
Thanks for the advice all!
Peter, the cut out for the tweeter was made so that that the tweeters may be changed - that was the plan but I've not got around to trying the peerless tweeter.
The Fs of the peerless is 860Hz so a 1.5kHz x-over would be acheivable. Your correct the seas would not like a 1.5kHz point.
I crossed the monacor at 4.5kHz 3rd order in an attempt to tame the 6.5kHz peak and increase the usable frequency from the driver. The tweeter was crossed over at 6500Hz from the documentation I've got lying about with a 2nd order slope.
No testing has been done nor have I tweaked with the crossover at all since building - I'm fairly happy with the results, but please note I make no claims of being an expert and probably bit off a bit more than I should here
Peter thank you for the offer, if you would be so kind to send me the K&T data it would be greatfully recieved. banners1atntlworld.com cheers mate.
I'll get around to playing with them one day - honest! It'll probably involve rebuilding the crossover so I'll need some time!!
Peter, the cut out for the tweeter was made so that that the tweeters may be changed - that was the plan but I've not got around to trying the peerless tweeter.
The Fs of the peerless is 860Hz so a 1.5kHz x-over would be acheivable. Your correct the seas would not like a 1.5kHz point.
I crossed the monacor at 4.5kHz 3rd order in an attempt to tame the 6.5kHz peak and increase the usable frequency from the driver. The tweeter was crossed over at 6500Hz from the documentation I've got lying about with a 2nd order slope.
No testing has been done nor have I tweaked with the crossover at all since building - I'm fairly happy with the results, but please note I make no claims of being an expert and probably bit off a bit more than I should here
Peter thank you for the offer, if you would be so kind to send me the K&T data it would be greatfully recieved. banners1atntlworld.com cheers mate.
I'll get around to playing with them one day - honest! It'll probably involve rebuilding the crossover so I'll need some time!!
Right a bit of an update for anyone interested
Today I've constructed a new crossover crossing the woofer at 1500Hz and the tweeter at 2000Hz - both 2nd order.
It sounds a little more natural. Less shouty in the mids.
The resistors in the first attempt have been replaced with an L Pad. Now I was aware that the original crossover led to a quite bright presentation and now is more neutral.
I'm listening to just the single speaker ATM to readjust my hearing to the new arrangement before fully rebuilding the cross overs. I'm going to make the effort to externally mount them also.
The most surprising thing is the seas doesn't sound too bad crossed @2000Hz. I prefer the sound of this unit over the peerless. I may cross this at a 3rd order order to offer more protection for the tweeter. I don't listen overly loud on this system.
Comments welcome
Steve
PS Pluto, Cheers for the information
Today I've constructed a new crossover crossing the woofer at 1500Hz and the tweeter at 2000Hz - both 2nd order.
It sounds a little more natural. Less shouty in the mids.
The resistors in the first attempt have been replaced with an L Pad. Now I was aware that the original crossover led to a quite bright presentation and now is more neutral.
I'm listening to just the single speaker ATM to readjust my hearing to the new arrangement before fully rebuilding the cross overs. I'm going to make the effort to externally mount them also.
The most surprising thing is the seas doesn't sound too bad crossed @2000Hz. I prefer the sound of this unit over the peerless. I may cross this at a 3rd order order to offer more protection for the tweeter. I don't listen overly loud on this system.
Comments welcome
Steve
PS Pluto, Cheers for the information
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