Looking for a "thin" center speaker design
Ok well I thought I had decided on the following Audax kit http://www.madisound.com/audaxhometheater.html
for my first diy speaker setup. However I have run into one snag. The center speaker for that kit is TOO tall for the location I need to place it. Due to constraints placed by my wife, the center speaker needs to be no taller than 7". It can however be up to 34" wide and 25" deep.
The Audax kit has a center with a 11" height
.
With a constaint of 7" I am thinking that pretty much rules out any speaker with a 6.5" driver. Not even sure a 5" driver would fit.
I have been looking around the web for a speaker kit, and or design that fits my requirements and have yet to find one. Does anyone here have any suggestions?
Ok well I thought I had decided on the following Audax kit http://www.madisound.com/audaxhometheater.html
for my first diy speaker setup. However I have run into one snag. The center speaker for that kit is TOO tall for the location I need to place it. Due to constraints placed by my wife, the center speaker needs to be no taller than 7". It can however be up to 34" wide and 25" deep.
The Audax kit has a center with a 11" height
.With a constaint of 7" I am thinking that pretty much rules out any speaker with a 6.5" driver. Not even sure a 5" driver would fit.
I have been looking around the web for a speaker kit, and or design that fits my requirements and have yet to find one. Does anyone here have any suggestions?
It's sold as a kit but the GR Research AV3S is only 8" tall. If you have to go less than that perhaps the Spires center would work.
AV3S
Creative Sound
AV3S
Creative Sound
Thanks for the input. I actually had already considered the AV3S, however that is just a little too tall
The Spires look very interesting, and the center speaker would fit very well. They are also a bit cheaper to build then the Audax kit would be.
Need to do a little research on how people thought of them, sure there are already threads about that. My first concern is the size of the "tweeter", seems a little big. But maybe through research I will discover why
The Spires look very interesting, and the center speaker would fit very well. They are also a bit cheaper to build then the Audax kit would be.
Need to do a little research on how people thought of them, sure there are already threads about that. My first concern is the size of the "tweeter", seems a little big. But maybe through research I will discover why
I'm guessing that this is for on top of a TV, but under a shelf. If that's the case it's a good opportunity for a dipole center channel. The TV and shelf would form baffle wings. Since you don't have enough width for an array, something like a couple of Adire AV5's with the audax tweeter they recommend in a sideways MTM. All you'd have to build is a front baffle to attach under the shelf and fit reasonably well above the TV (use a dark foam rubber as a gasket for the TV since an airtight seal isn't critical) and maybe some polyfill behind the drivers. Nice, simple, cheap, and more natural vocals and dialogue than a box speaker can produce.
johninCR - you guessed right, this setup is going inside a armoire(sp?) with between the TV and the top of the unit.
If I follow your idea you would not have a box, but use the armoire itself as the box and just build a baffle.
another interesting idea, however I would not even no where to begin for the crossover points (this is my first project).
If I follow your idea you would not have a box, but use the armoire itself as the box and just build a baffle.
another interesting idea, however I would not even no where to begin for the crossover points (this is my first project).
m1abrams,
My idea would work if you took the back off of the armoire. If it's up against the wall, that would be a problem too, because you don't want it to become just a sealed box. If you don't want to mess with a crossover, then you need a full range driver. If you want to go boxless you need a Qts of at least .5 , which severly limits selection. There are a number of good 4" , 5" , or 6" full range drivers that can be boxed. Even ones with good enough sensitivity where just one will make a fine speaker.
Also, you said it was a center channel. Your center channel should match your mains for best results.
What's your budget?
My idea would work if you took the back off of the armoire. If it's up against the wall, that would be a problem too, because you don't want it to become just a sealed box. If you don't want to mess with a crossover, then you need a full range driver. If you want to go boxless you need a Qts of at least .5 , which severly limits selection. There are a number of good 4" , 5" , or 6" full range drivers that can be boxed. Even ones with good enough sensitivity where just one will make a fine speaker.
Also, you said it was a center channel. Your center channel should match your mains for best results.
What's your budget?
under 7" means that the inside box dimensions will be at best 5.5".
this means that if you are looking for a MTM you are looking at 4.5" woofers. I have bult a MMTMM using vifa tc series drivers. if you bug me in private i can send you a photo. i dont want to crowd this forum with big photos.
however i can tell you from my expereince that this is anot an ideal location for a MMTMM. I might consider a fullrange based on th TBW3-871, FE107, FF85K, JX92 etc. You can use multiple drivers (say 3) and roll of the outer 2. so you get a sort of MTM but the Xo freq is around 300-500Hz and not 2-3k as it would be in a more conventional MTM or MMTMM.
this means that if you are looking for a MTM you are looking at 4.5" woofers. I have bult a MMTMM using vifa tc series drivers. if you bug me in private i can send you a photo. i dont want to crowd this forum with big photos.
however i can tell you from my expereince that this is anot an ideal location for a MMTMM. I might consider a fullrange based on th TBW3-871, FE107, FF85K, JX92 etc. You can use multiple drivers (say 3) and roll of the outer 2. so you get a sort of MTM but the Xo freq is around 300-500Hz and not 2-3k as it would be in a more conventional MTM or MMTMM.
It looks like a full range driver or coaxial driver is the only thing that can really meet that requirement.
The fostex FE127 is shielded and would be a good choice. You could use the FE167 or FE207 for the mains. The fostex drivers are quite good.
Or, Seas makes some small shielded coaxials that would work. There's various DIY plans on the web.
I'd be inclined to go for the Japanese full range solution myself.
'Sideways' MTM's are best avoided IMHO.
Greg B
The fostex FE127 is shielded and would be a good choice. You could use the FE167 or FE207 for the mains. The fostex drivers are quite good.
Or, Seas makes some small shielded coaxials that would work. There's various DIY plans on the web.
I'd be inclined to go for the Japanese full range solution myself.
'Sideways' MTM's are best avoided IMHO.
Greg B
hmmm, sounds like from the comments that the Spires kit might be a good choice for my situation.
I have read more and more about them and they seem pretty good.
I also understand that my current location requirements are not ideal, however I am sure as most people with wives know this is something you don't argue with much.
My plan though is this is my warmup project, I hope to build many more. So it is very important the wife FULLY approves of this one, the next one I may be able to push a little more to "remove" the armoire.
I have read more and more about them and they seem pretty good.
I also understand that my current location requirements are not ideal, however I am sure as most people with wives know this is something you don't argue with much.
My plan though is this is my warmup project, I hope to build many more. So it is very important the wife FULLY approves of this one, the next one I may be able to push a little more to "remove" the armoire
.I like the big sound of arrays and you get the advantage of fully DIY instead of a kit. If you are on a tight budget then it's definitely the way to go because you can use very cheap drivers. For the center channel I'd go with 6 four or five inch shielded wide range drivers and a super tweeter in the middle. Then wire them in a bessel arrangement so you get dispersion as if it's a single speaker not an array. If at all possible, run it open baffle and end up with a great center channel for well under $100.
While I would like to do a FULL DIY, I think for my first entry into the hobby I will stick with a kit (but build the cabinets myself).
I am not so much on a tight budget, but want to keep the first project lower cost. Always felt that you should crawl before you walk with most things.
Notice I am always referring to first project, I fully intend to build many more speakers of vary types.
From what I read on the spires and the TB drivers I think these may be a good fit for my project. Maybe ordering the parts within a week.
I appreciate the great suggestions. I may try johninCR array setup for the center speaker once I get a little experience tweaking speakers.
I am not so much on a tight budget, but want to keep the first project lower cost. Always felt that you should crawl before you walk with most things.
Notice I am always referring to first project, I fully intend to build many more speakers of vary types.
From what I read on the spires and the TB drivers I think these may be a good fit for my project. Maybe ordering the parts within a week.
I appreciate the great suggestions. I may try johninCR array setup for the center speaker once I get a little experience tweaking speakers.
I can understand not wanting to do 'FULL DIY' for your first project. Makes good sense really.
Going with the FE107 center and FE167 L/R wouldn't be any harder than a kit though. The drivers come with plans for simple bass reflex boxes. There's no crossover to worry about, just hook 'em up.
The center channel could be adjusted to any dimensions you want (with reason), as long as you keep the internal volume and vent dimensions/tuning the same.
The spires look pretty good. I know the ELF was well regarded. I prefer fostex to tangband myself, but that's just me. Both are good drivers.
GB
Going with the FE107 center and FE167 L/R wouldn't be any harder than a kit though. The drivers come with plans for simple bass reflex boxes. There's no crossover to worry about, just hook 'em up.
The center channel could be adjusted to any dimensions you want (with reason), as long as you keep the internal volume and vent dimensions/tuning the same.
The spires look pretty good. I know the ELF was well regarded. I prefer fostex to tangband myself, but that's just me. Both are good drivers.
GB
This might work
I just finished one with the Seas H653 coax. Now that I've done a few movies, I'm quite happy with it. The driver is 6 3/4" so you might be able to squeeze it into the space.
http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/coax/Coax.htm
I just finished one with the Seas H653 coax. Now that I've done a few movies, I'm quite happy with it. The driver is 6 3/4" so you might be able to squeeze it into the space.
http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/coax/Coax.htm
Greg B said:
Given a choice i'd use fostex too. in fact for center i'd use 3 107s in a config shown below....
http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/Pdffiles/RefReview.pdf
http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/VCC-5lit.html
for the rear either 1 or 2 107s depending on room and speker size and for the mains 167s.
No XO required.
trouble is with a system this good you might never feel to build anything else again
navin - while I greatly appreciate your confidents in my woodworking skills, I think that center speaker is a bit beyond me at this point. I am very much a novice when it comes to working with wood. Read alot about it, enough to know that those non-90 degree joints are a bit harder to accomplish correctly.
I do appreciate everyones input it has been very helpful, I hope I do not upset too many people by going with the Elf Spires. Not that I think the Fostex are not as good, if not better (I would not know). I did check out the Fostex and the site had the basic cabinet designs, even one for a center using 3 FE107 without all the bends .
I do appreciate everyones input it has been very helpful, I hope I do not upset too many people by going with the Elf Spires
. Not that I think the Fostex are not as good, if not better (I would not know). I did check out the Fostex and the site had the basic cabinet designs, even one for a center using 3 FE107 without all the bends .
Sorry should have posted that link before.
Here is a link to an enclosure using 3 FE107
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/107e_encl.pdf
Here is a link to an enclosure using 3 FE107
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/107e_encl.pdf
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