Hello Everyone - I was curious as to what your guys' thoughts were on Onken cabinets...I've tried to do a little digging on their theory, and have found only a little bit of information with regards to their design and benefits.
Some of the benefits I've seen described were that they have the capacity to function as an aperiodic style of enclosure (Due to their high ratio/shallow port design(?)), the bracing within the ports themselves brace the cabinets further - pushing cabinet resonances higher, that they (subjectively) have "tighter" bass when compared to a traditional reflex port, and that they are quite aesthetically pleasing (In my personal opinion hah).
As such, I was curious if you guys have any further comments to their benefits, or drawbacks, especially with regards as to whether or not they are worth the time to consider their implementation (when compared to a traditional reflex port)
(Side note: If anyone would be so kind to share any sort of design recipes or such as to how one would go about designing one from scratch. It would be greatly appreciated as well, thanks)
But I'll digress - much love/many thanks in advance for your guys' time and efforts in advance
Some of the benefits I've seen described were that they have the capacity to function as an aperiodic style of enclosure (Due to their high ratio/shallow port design(?)), the bracing within the ports themselves brace the cabinets further - pushing cabinet resonances higher, that they (subjectively) have "tighter" bass when compared to a traditional reflex port, and that they are quite aesthetically pleasing (In my personal opinion hah).
As such, I was curious if you guys have any further comments to their benefits, or drawbacks, especially with regards as to whether or not they are worth the time to consider their implementation (when compared to a traditional reflex port)
(Side note: If anyone would be so kind to share any sort of design recipes or such as to how one would go about designing one from scratch. It would be greatly appreciated as well, thanks)
But I'll digress - much love/many thanks in advance for your guys' time and efforts in advance
Altec Voice of the theater worth the hassle?
There's an Excel calculator on the net somewhere, but this on-line one yields the same results IIRC: mh-audio.nl - Home
GM
There's an Excel calculator on the net somewhere, but this on-line one yields the same results IIRC: mh-audio.nl - Home
GM
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Here is one I really think I would like. Raal tweeter + Scanspeak woofers, pricey though:
ANANYA - Solen Electronique Inc.
Best,
Erik
ANANYA - Solen Electronique Inc.
Best,
Erik
@lisoformio
I can't quite recall which sites it was that I had found those descriptions - It was from at least 4-5 different places
So, essentially speaking, beyond aesthetics - there are really no discernible advantages to an Onken configuration, when compared to a traditional reflex port?
Out of curiosity then (Not to disparage or disregard what you had said), why are there designs where the Onken approach is utilized in the modern day? For aesthetics? For a throw-back? For...?
If these designs aren't worth the time for their design considerations, it would certainly save me some time and (mental) energy to no longer see them with interest
But I'll digress - thank you for your input
I can't quite recall which sites it was that I had found those descriptions - It was from at least 4-5 different places
So, essentially speaking, beyond aesthetics - there are really no discernible advantages to an Onken configuration, when compared to a traditional reflex port?
Out of curiosity then (Not to disparage or disregard what you had said), why are there designs where the Onken approach is utilized in the modern day? For aesthetics? For a throw-back? For...?
If these designs aren't worth the time for their design considerations, it would certainly save me some time and (mental) energy to no longer see them with interest
But I'll digress - thank you for your input
If you want to Google for info online for what the idea originally was for, it was first know as the "Jenson Ultraflex". For example.. Onken - Jensen Ultraflex - IP Ultra Bass - IP Ultra-Bass - Studio M
It was in this French article among others, which also shows the vent's comb filtered mids output, 'bump up' at tuning [Fb]: Untitled Document
GM
There is a huge Onken thread here:Reviving the Onken
An Onken has very particular design restraints.
Beware that i have an alignment that i call miniOnken for boxes i make that steal the concept of the high ratio vents along the sides (i fell in love with the look from some plans i saw in a late 1970s Audax applications booklet). They use a differing alignment and aren’t “real” Onkens. They benefit from the essentially doubled side walls, the high aspect (and long) vents add resistance to the vent (something you are traditionally advised never to do) which does tend to push them towards aperiodic and makes the box more tolerant of dynamic changes in T/S parameters. The boxes also tend towards small and the bass only goes as low as it goes — neither of which, as i understand it, are attributes of the Onken. The bass they produce thou is elegant and well behaved.
dave
An Onken has very particular design restraints.
Beware that i have an alignment that i call miniOnken for boxes i make that steal the concept of the high ratio vents along the sides (i fell in love with the look from some plans i saw in a late 1970s Audax applications booklet). They use a differing alignment and aren’t “real” Onkens. They benefit from the essentially doubled side walls, the high aspect (and long) vents add resistance to the vent (something you are traditionally advised never to do) which does tend to push them towards aperiodic and makes the box more tolerant of dynamic changes in T/S parameters. The boxes also tend towards small and the bass only goes as low as it goes — neither of which, as i understand it, are attributes of the Onken. The bass they produce thou is elegant and well behaved.
dave
I have to read it again because I do not remember the french people described that enclosure an aperiodic system. I remember it as a bass-reflex sistem.
Mr Koizumi founded Onken company many years ago. So Onken = Mr Koizumi designs... everything else is not Onken....
Time ago it was still available his web site. I googled looking for it but I did not find it.
The Onken design is based on the old Jensen Ultraflex.
I built a pair of Onken bass boxes more than a decade ago, they are the only part of the system that has not been replaced in that time.
I continue to be happy with their performance but have made some changes since built. (basically just the materials used for internal damping which are surprisingly critical - lambs wool or wool based carpet underlayment work better than more modern materials)
I built a pair of Onken bass boxes more than a decade ago, they are the only part of the system that has not been replaced in that time.
I continue to be happy with their performance but have made some changes since built. (basically just the materials used for internal damping which are surprisingly critical - lambs wool or wool based carpet underlayment work better than more modern materials)
Sort of. As I understand it:
-Thuras invented & patented the bass reflex (which is different to Novak, and latterly Thiele, then Small's, vented box) in 1934. Jensen created the Ultraflex variation on the theme a couple of decades later. These boxes use their huge (by typical current standards) vent systems to target maximum acoustic efficiency at Fb.
-Post Novak, Thiele, and some of Small's work, the Onken is created. It is a specific variation on the 'modern' vented box theme, hybridising the massive vent structure of classic reflex design (and exploiting the convinient Ultraflex layout) with the ducted vent & specific filter based alignments using Q, Fs and Vas to determine box volume and Fb. As a result, Onkens share some characteristics with classic BR design (lots of vent area) with regular vented boxes. Because of the massive vent area, the ducts are, in general, relatively long, and as a result their 1/2 wave resonant modes tends to create midband colouration.
-Dave Dlugos's enclosures physically resemble Onkens & the Ultraflex but are functionally different, as he deliberately uses a high vent aspect ratio & the resistance / friction generated to push the box alignment toward / into a quasi-aperiodic function. This is significantly different to the Onken, where tuning is basically similar (albeit with vent harmonic resonance & with particular tuning goals) to a conventional T/S vented box, and almost the polar opposite to the classic BR & the Ultraflex.
-Thuras invented & patented the bass reflex (which is different to Novak, and latterly Thiele, then Small's, vented box) in 1934. Jensen created the Ultraflex variation on the theme a couple of decades later. These boxes use their huge (by typical current standards) vent systems to target maximum acoustic efficiency at Fb.
-Post Novak, Thiele, and some of Small's work, the Onken is created. It is a specific variation on the 'modern' vented box theme, hybridising the massive vent structure of classic reflex design (and exploiting the convinient Ultraflex layout) with the ducted vent & specific filter based alignments using Q, Fs and Vas to determine box volume and Fb. As a result, Onkens share some characteristics with classic BR design (lots of vent area) with regular vented boxes. Because of the massive vent area, the ducts are, in general, relatively long, and as a result their 1/2 wave resonant modes tends to create midband colouration.
-Dave Dlugos's enclosures physically resemble Onkens & the Ultraflex but are functionally different, as he deliberately uses a high vent aspect ratio & the resistance / friction generated to push the box alignment toward / into a quasi-aperiodic function. This is significantly different to the Onken, where tuning is basically similar (albeit with vent harmonic resonance & with particular tuning goals) to a conventional T/S vented box, and almost the polar opposite to the classic BR & the Ultraflex.
Here is Hiraga’s article, Google translated into English and pdfed.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Hiraga-Onkens-english.pdf
dave
I used to hear an Onken W ! You need the room for this serious punchy bass... Need also drives with Fs lower than 30 Hz (Altecs were around 25/30 Hz, much harder to find today ! Think the big Tannoys get the both of the two worlds :energy and plexus upercut in the upper bass from the Vott and lows extension of the Onken... and clean low mid : Onkens are not only subs but a very good low mid made for XO around 700 Hz and horn above)
Iir: onken were liked in Japan because havin the low-end lacked in the Vott... !
BR you see today in the Stereophile class A are poor toys for kids vs a serious Onken W, imho !
Iir: onken were liked in Japan because havin the low-end lacked in the Vott... !
BR you see today in the Stereophile class A are poor toys for kids vs a serious Onken W, imho !
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Erh , regarding that translation ...
You just got to love french . Last sentence of the translation . While "enceinte" indeed does mean pregnant , and therefore is translated quite correctly , whenever the same term is used around audio , it ought to be translated with "enclosure" . Try figure...
Cheers
Kim
You just got to love french . Last sentence of the translation . While "enceinte" indeed does mean pregnant , and therefore is translated quite correctly , whenever the same term is used around audio , it ought to be translated with "enclosure" . Try figure...
Cheers
Kim
You want to see craftmenship you should see some of Bernie’s solid wood miniOnkens (a reminder, as i stated, and Scott emphasized, not an Onken). truly artpieces and some while not as large as in the article you posted, still big — monster miniOnken (this is not near the biggest built to date — those are some 3+ x the volume).
dave
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