I need some (lots) help?????
I want to build all kinds of projects that I read about here and in 2 books that I bought by G. R. Slone.
My problem is that I thought that these 2 books would contain enough information to educate myself to get started.
Big "NO". The more I read posts here on this forum and look at kits and other projects on the net, the more stupid i seem to feel or get.
So I need the help from all the wise people on this forum to please guide me in the best way to educate myself in the basics, and then on to the next level so I can understand more (alot more) about what I want to be my new hobby "DIY Audio".
BOOKS ??
COMPUTER PROGRAMS??
COLLAGE COURSE??
ANYTHING ELSE??
or if anyone wants to let me stand over their shoulder while they work on their own projects (if they live in Southern California), I would be willing to do or try just about anyhting!!!
Thanks in advance for all your suggestions,
Jay M.
I want to build all kinds of projects that I read about here and in 2 books that I bought by G. R. Slone.
My problem is that I thought that these 2 books would contain enough information to educate myself to get started.
Big "NO". The more I read posts here on this forum and look at kits and other projects on the net, the more stupid i seem to feel or get.
So I need the help from all the wise people on this forum to please guide me in the best way to educate myself in the basics, and then on to the next level so I can understand more (alot more) about what I want to be my new hobby "DIY Audio".
BOOKS ??
COMPUTER PROGRAMS??
COLLAGE COURSE??
ANYTHING ELSE??
or if anyone wants to let me stand over their shoulder while they work on their own projects (if they live in Southern California), I would be willing to do or try just about anyhting!!!
Thanks in advance for all your suggestions,
Jay M.
Mr, Pass
No I'm not 75 yet, only 29 all though somtimes I feel 75. But there has to be 1 if not a few books or something else that you could recommend to get me started with the basics other than trial and error. I would rather spend money on books, computer programs, or a night course @ collage, that wil give me something to referance or fall back on a few years from now instead of a box (really big box) blown up failed attempts that I didn't even understand why they bleww up in the fist place. So please guys give me some real (educational) suggestions?!?!?
(*** kissing or not)
Honored to have Mr. Pass reply to a peion as myself
C-Ya, Jay M.
No I'm not 75 yet, only 29 all though somtimes I feel 75. But there has to be 1 if not a few books or something else that you could recommend to get me started with the basics other than trial and error. I would rather spend money on books, computer programs, or a night course @ collage, that wil give me something to referance or fall back on a few years from now instead of a box (really big box) blown up failed attempts that I didn't even understand why they bleww up in the fist place. So please guys give me some real (educational) suggestions?!?!?
(*** kissing or not)
Honored to have Mr. Pass reply to a peion as myself
C-Ya, Jay M.
CO_Driver,
One thing I've found to be very helpful is to muck around with a circuit simulator - try different topologies & component values to get an intuitive feel for how the circuit works. LTSpice is a good way to go (google it).
There's not many good textbooks around that give a solid grounding in electronics of an audio flavour. D. Self's book is ok but has no theory. Rod Elliot's ESP web site has some good articles. (http://sound.westhost.com/index.html)
Cheers,
Murray
One thing I've found to be very helpful is to muck around with a circuit simulator - try different topologies & component values to get an intuitive feel for how the circuit works. LTSpice is a good way to go (google it).
There's not many good textbooks around that give a solid grounding in electronics of an audio flavour. D. Self's book is ok but has no theory. Rod Elliot's ESP web site has some good articles. (http://sound.westhost.com/index.html)
Cheers,
Murray
Aud_Mot's Excellent books list:
"The Art of Electronics.
Paul Horowitz and Winfeild Hill
ISBN 0-521-37095-7
It is big and expensive.
I still refer to a book called
"How to Design and Build Audio Amplfiers"
by Mannie Horowitz
ISBN 0-8306-1206-8
Amazon says, out of print. Might find it on half.com, or amazon.com. Worth picking up used. A great place to start. Goes through the very basics of transistors and on from there.
And Douglas Self's book audio amp book
I forget the name but it is excellent. Some one help me out here.
Recently, Nuts and Volts Magazine had a transistor cookbook series, I do not know if it will get consoidated and publsihed.
None of these get into the esoteric, audiophile stuff. Good basic EE engineering. You need that perspective too. This forum gives you all the audio perfection stuff you can use.
Aud_Mot
"The Art of Electronics.
Paul Horowitz and Winfeild Hill
ISBN 0-521-37095-7
It is big and expensive.
I still refer to a book called
"How to Design and Build Audio Amplfiers"
by Mannie Horowitz
ISBN 0-8306-1206-8
Amazon says, out of print. Might find it on half.com, or amazon.com. Worth picking up used. A great place to start. Goes through the very basics of transistors and on from there.
And Douglas Self's book audio amp book
I forget the name but it is excellent. Some one help me out here.
Recently, Nuts and Volts Magazine had a transistor cookbook series, I do not know if it will get consoidated and publsihed.
None of these get into the esoteric, audiophile stuff. Good basic EE engineering. You need that perspective too. This forum gives you all the audio perfection stuff you can use.
Aud_Mot
Com on guys some help please?
Everybody is viewing this thread but, no posts!
All I have is the 2 books I mentioned and this computer to gather information and learn.
I have bought some stuff that I thought would be good to start with -
#1 - 5 channel amp from a Klipsch computer audio system 80 watts per channel.
#2 - New old stock Hafler factory-assembled dual 60W MOSFET audio amplifier circuit on a single circuit board. This same basic board (with very minor changes) was used in famous "Hafler" model: DH120, Pro1200 and G150 amplifiers.
#3 - Computer Grade FILTER CAPACITORS -- 15,000 UF (MFD) 75V.
(I wanted to combine #1 & #2 into a 5.1 HT amplifier)
But because I really don't have a grasp on the basics and dont want to wast the money that I spent on these, I can't start!?!?
New question. What types of begining tools should I staet collecting (soldering iron, multi meter, hand tools)????
Everybody is viewing this thread but, no posts!
All I have is the 2 books I mentioned and this computer to gather information and learn.
I have bought some stuff that I thought would be good to start with -
#1 - 5 channel amp from a Klipsch computer audio system 80 watts per channel.
#2 - New old stock Hafler factory-assembled dual 60W MOSFET audio amplifier circuit on a single circuit board. This same basic board (with very minor changes) was used in famous "Hafler" model: DH120, Pro1200 and G150 amplifiers.
#3 - Computer Grade FILTER CAPACITORS -- 15,000 UF (MFD) 75V.
(I wanted to combine #1 & #2 into a 5.1 HT amplifier)
But because I really don't have a grasp on the basics and dont want to wast the money that I spent on these, I can't start!?!?
New question. What types of begining tools should I staet collecting (soldering iron, multi meter, hand tools)????
Attachments
You can't just read a lot, and then build your perfect amps.
Buy a subscription of som good american magazine - you americans are much better off than we are in my little country.
Not many people are making diy audio these days, but maybe there is an increasing interest??
Find something interesting and build it!
Learning by doing - by night. That's the way.
Keep the spirit
Jørn
Buy a subscription of som good american magazine - you americans are much better off than we are in my little country.
Not many people are making diy audio these days, but maybe there is an increasing interest??
Find something interesting and build it!
Learning by doing - by night. That's the way.
Keep the spirit
Jørn
Alas for the days of Heathkit, Dynakit, Knightkit, Eico, etc.
I put together a lot of test gear and a receiver, without knowing
the first thing about electronics. It gave me a good hands-on
experience with hardware, electronic components, and soldering.
For electronic basics, you might consider taking courses at a vocational school. Check out what they're using for text books;
you might find them at used book stores.
It's frustrating at first, but you'll gain a sense of perspective.
Just keep at it!
I put together a lot of test gear and a receiver, without knowing
the first thing about electronics. It gave me a good hands-on
experience with hardware, electronic components, and soldering.
For electronic basics, you might consider taking courses at a vocational school. Check out what they're using for text books;
you might find them at used book stores.
It's frustrating at first, but you'll gain a sense of perspective.
Just keep at it!
Thats what you should start to collect. + computer with soundcard for measurements, if you can find someday a oscilloscope, and some m^2 shelfspace with electronic parts - resistors, transistors, caps etc. And read everything on www.passdiy.com And build some of the pass amps for educational purposes.
http://www.passdiy.com/projects/zenlite2.htm
I would recommend taking a tour on www.audioxpress.com , they have everything: parts, books, articles, magazine, all devoted to audio in the broadest sense. Very good resource.
And I agree Jay, there is no substitute for education. Knowing what you are doing always helps.
Jan Didden
And I agree Jay, there is no substitute for education. Knowing what you are doing always helps.
Jan Didden
Being so young, think about trying to get accepted into MIT's EE undergraduate program. One of the best! At least go for a 2 year electronics technology degree somewhere. Learning practical electronics design at home from any number of books will be very difficult. It can probably be done, but you will have to be super motivated.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
> "NO". The more I read posts here on this forum..., the more stupid i seem to feel...
Then stop reading this forum.
There are a lot of people here, of different interests and experiences. Nobody knows everything. A few people know a lot about something. And of course there are some people who "know" things that are wrong. You need a BS filter. And it takes a long time to grow a good BS filter.
> I thought that these 2 books would contain enough information
I don't think I've ever read a book that covered even 1% of the audio field. It is just too big.
I've been working with audio for 40 years, employed in the field for most of 30 years, constantly reading and tinkering, and there is more I don't know than I do know.
If you look at "sucessful designers": they all specialize in some fairly narrow field. Mr Pass could probably sketch a tube AM radio, if you hit him with a stick, but he's worked the last few decades on FET hi-fi preamps and power amps (and a few speakers). There are media-audio designers who are wizards at DSP and 5.1 etc, but don't dabble in discrete design; and chip designers who are gurus of "discrete" (parts on a chip) but don't try to design systems.
> I wanted to combine #1 & #2 into a 5.1 HT amplifier
Ah, it was much easier to get started before 1959, when you could be proud of a mono system. Stereo more than doubles the work. 5.1 just blows my old mind.
> What types of begining tools should I staet collecting (soldering iron, multi meter, hand tools)????
Teeny iron for ICs and probably a 1/8" tip on a 35W-45W heater for power terminal strips and fuseholders. Don't fool with $10 irons, but don't spend $100 to start. I still do almost all my work with several $35 irons. (In part because my aging eyes can't see parts small enough to justify getting a teensy iron.) Name-brand rosin-core solder in 0.032" size.
Standard $2 pliers for big nuts. Several $3 screwdrivers in different sizes. Be fussy about your phillips screwdrivers: most are the wrong shape. Needle-nose pliers or forcepts. Actually sticking electronics parts together is not that tool-intensive. You will want nut-drivers etc when working on polished panels, but leave that expense for later when you decide you "need" them and your wallet agrees.
Drills, saw, hammers for modifying or making cases. This is where you need BIG tooling.
Meters: I have everything from a pre-WWII Boonton AC millivoltmeter to an LCD "scope" (and a real scope too). I do 99% of basic checking and check-out on the equivalent of a $20 digi-meter (it was $80 when I got it, and I thought it was a bargain then). The main "flaw" of these $20 meters is the AC Volts frequency response: often limited to "power frequencies" 50Hz-400Hz and drooping badly far before 20KHz. Oh, and the Resistance function is sometimes very upset by high-inductance transformers (sampled auto-ranging never settles). I keep a genuine Vacuum Tube Volt Meter around for purely-analog measurements.
Get a decent signal generator! IMHO, you can't do decent checking with CDs and sound cards. They have a place, but when you get funny results it is often hard to know why. While I have 3 or 4 low-distortion oscillators, my favorite first-check source is a Function Generator (Global 2001). Sure the Sine is ugly. But it is stable, settles quickly, has wide range, a choice of waveforms, and is compact.
Scopes are expensive and I don't trust the affordable digital LCD scope as far as I can throw the Tektronic. But I do think you want a scope. A 5-inch 5MHz is plenty. Dual-channel is a real plus. Used Heathkits and Leaders of this class sell for $100.
> Com on guys some help please? Everybody is viewing this thread but, no posts!
You got four good responses in three hours, at a time when most of the world is sleeping-- are your pants on fire?
Then stop reading this forum.
There are a lot of people here, of different interests and experiences. Nobody knows everything. A few people know a lot about something. And of course there are some people who "know" things that are wrong. You need a BS filter. And it takes a long time to grow a good BS filter.
> I thought that these 2 books would contain enough information
I don't think I've ever read a book that covered even 1% of the audio field. It is just too big.
I've been working with audio for 40 years, employed in the field for most of 30 years, constantly reading and tinkering, and there is more I don't know than I do know.
If you look at "sucessful designers": they all specialize in some fairly narrow field. Mr Pass could probably sketch a tube AM radio, if you hit him with a stick, but he's worked the last few decades on FET hi-fi preamps and power amps (and a few speakers). There are media-audio designers who are wizards at DSP and 5.1 etc, but don't dabble in discrete design; and chip designers who are gurus of "discrete" (parts on a chip) but don't try to design systems.
> I wanted to combine #1 & #2 into a 5.1 HT amplifier
Ah, it was much easier to get started before 1959, when you could be proud of a mono system. Stereo more than doubles the work. 5.1 just blows my old mind.
> What types of begining tools should I staet collecting (soldering iron, multi meter, hand tools)????
Teeny iron for ICs and probably a 1/8" tip on a 35W-45W heater for power terminal strips and fuseholders. Don't fool with $10 irons, but don't spend $100 to start. I still do almost all my work with several $35 irons. (In part because my aging eyes can't see parts small enough to justify getting a teensy iron.) Name-brand rosin-core solder in 0.032" size.
Standard $2 pliers for big nuts. Several $3 screwdrivers in different sizes. Be fussy about your phillips screwdrivers: most are the wrong shape. Needle-nose pliers or forcepts. Actually sticking electronics parts together is not that tool-intensive. You will want nut-drivers etc when working on polished panels, but leave that expense for later when you decide you "need" them and your wallet agrees.
Drills, saw, hammers for modifying or making cases. This is where you need BIG tooling.
Meters: I have everything from a pre-WWII Boonton AC millivoltmeter to an LCD "scope" (and a real scope too). I do 99% of basic checking and check-out on the equivalent of a $20 digi-meter (it was $80 when I got it, and I thought it was a bargain then). The main "flaw" of these $20 meters is the AC Volts frequency response: often limited to "power frequencies" 50Hz-400Hz and drooping badly far before 20KHz. Oh, and the Resistance function is sometimes very upset by high-inductance transformers (sampled auto-ranging never settles). I keep a genuine Vacuum Tube Volt Meter around for purely-analog measurements.
Get a decent signal generator! IMHO, you can't do decent checking with CDs and sound cards. They have a place, but when you get funny results it is often hard to know why. While I have 3 or 4 low-distortion oscillators, my favorite first-check source is a Function Generator (Global 2001). Sure the Sine is ugly. But it is stable, settles quickly, has wide range, a choice of waveforms, and is compact.
Scopes are expensive and I don't trust the affordable digital LCD scope as far as I can throw the Tektronic. But I do think you want a scope. A 5-inch 5MHz is plenty. Dual-channel is a real plus. Used Heathkits and Leaders of this class sell for $100.
> Com on guys some help please? Everybody is viewing this thread but, no posts!
You got four good responses in three hours, at a time when most of the world is sleeping-- are your pants on fire?
Costa Mesa
I live in Costa Mesa. Call me on my cell at 714-420-7535. I design large amplification for Renkus-Heinz and could give you a hand.
However, I have to mention that to become good at this you have to start small and build your way up. I find the books just don't tell you enough but I can help you learn the 10 tricks that allow you to do 2/3 of the work.
You do realize that any profession has maybe 10 tricks that allow you to do 2/3 of the job?
For example:
Rule 1. If its too dry, make it wet.
Rule 2. It it is too wet, make it dry.
You are now a dermatologist.
Anyway, since you're in my neighborhood, give me a call. Also, I have a garage full of electronic parts and materials I'm itching to give away to anyone who can use them.
Or e-mail me at dmfraser@sbcglobal.net
Dan
I live in Costa Mesa. Call me on my cell at 714-420-7535. I design large amplification for Renkus-Heinz and could give you a hand.
However, I have to mention that to become good at this you have to start small and build your way up. I find the books just don't tell you enough but I can help you learn the 10 tricks that allow you to do 2/3 of the work.
You do realize that any profession has maybe 10 tricks that allow you to do 2/3 of the job?
For example:
Rule 1. If its too dry, make it wet.
Rule 2. It it is too wet, make it dry.
You are now a dermatologist.
Anyway, since you're in my neighborhood, give me a call. Also, I have a garage full of electronic parts and materials I'm itching to give away to anyone who can use them.
Or e-mail me at dmfraser@sbcglobal.net
Dan
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