Good night everybody, I have been lurking her for a couple of years and always wanted to dip my toes, but I always had a chicken and egg problem, I don't make an audio amp because I don't have a set of speakers, I don't have speakers because I don't a dedicated amp for them..
So I decided to make some small book shelfs something along the lines of the Zaph Audio ones:
Zaph|Audio - ZMV5 - MCM / Vifa 5" System
Zaph|Audio - Bargain Aluminum MTM
My biggest doubt is where to get the speakers in Europe, using parts-express will get expensive pretty fast due to shipping, customs, VAT and anything extra the customs might remember to throw in..
I'm open to any suggestions, but I would like to use some common drivers that are already well known by the community and that I can use true and tried enclosure designs.
About the enclosure I don't have wood-working tools or the skills needed but I know a carpenter that can do whatever I ask them for reasonable prices.
Best regards, and thanks in advance for your time.
So I decided to make some small book shelfs something along the lines of the Zaph Audio ones:
Zaph|Audio - ZMV5 - MCM / Vifa 5" System
Zaph|Audio - Bargain Aluminum MTM
My biggest doubt is where to get the speakers in Europe, using parts-express will get expensive pretty fast due to shipping, customs, VAT and anything extra the customs might remember to throw in..
I'm open to any suggestions, but I would like to use some common drivers that are already well known by the community and that I can use true and tried enclosure designs.
About the enclosure I don't have wood-working tools or the skills needed but I know a carpenter that can do whatever I ask them for reasonable prices.
Best regards, and thanks in advance for your time.
Tweaking
Any level of input on DIY is still DIY. I am making boxes prescribed by DIY guru Danish citizen Troels Gravesen and putting in drivers he has designed the crossovers for. The cabinet making , veneering and finishing is plenty of DIY input and I am assured of something that sounds like 10 times what I could afford in a store.
I have designed speakers using basic formulas as a starting point and swapped coils (I sometimes wind my own) and capacitors until the speakers sound just right. It has taken years of tweaking with one pair of speakers. That is the fun. Yeah you can be the complete objectivist and design by measurements and pricey analytic equipment. But you don't have to.
You have to start somewhere if you don't have either amp or speakers. DIY will NOT always be cheaper or sonically successful. So if you are just trying to save money going all DIY is a mistake I think.
Any level of input on DIY is still DIY. I am making boxes prescribed by DIY guru Danish citizen Troels Gravesen and putting in drivers he has designed the crossovers for. The cabinet making , veneering and finishing is plenty of DIY input and I am assured of something that sounds like 10 times what I could afford in a store.
I have designed speakers using basic formulas as a starting point and swapped coils (I sometimes wind my own) and capacitors until the speakers sound just right. It has taken years of tweaking with one pair of speakers. That is the fun. Yeah you can be the complete objectivist and design by measurements and pricey analytic equipment. But you don't have to.
You have to start somewhere if you don't have either amp or speakers. DIY will NOT always be cheaper or sonically successful. So if you are just trying to save money going all DIY is a mistake I think.
Its still a way to get me into the amplifiers part that is where I have more knowledge, electronics design.
I'm interested not because cost reduction/to be cheaper than commercial, its just everybody needs to start somewhere and I would prefer to have a pair of speakers that should sound more or less ok than starting from scratch, and taking one or two years reading about more theory, buying more test equipment and still not doing anything.
I think I could just re-aks my question this way:
What are the bigger and saffer audio stores in Europe?
I'm interested not because cost reduction/to be cheaper than commercial, its just everybody needs to start somewhere and I would prefer to have a pair of speakers that should sound more or less ok than starting from scratch, and taking one or two years reading about more theory, buying more test equipment and still not doing anything.
I think I could just re-aks my question this way:
What are the bigger and saffer audio stores in Europe?
Try full range speakers if you are just starting out. No crossovers to deal with and they can sound wonderful. Get a good inexpensive class D amp and get a 3 to 4 in fullrange driver from one of the main fullrange driver companies: Tang Band, Fostex, Mark Audio, Visaton, Faital Pro, Vifa. Get a TPA3116D2 amp - that is all you need to start and make a box for it. Start with a bass reflex or sealed. Then try a MLTL. Then a BLH. In that order plenty of plans or folks willing to help you get started. As you have heard - going with multiways is tricky but measurement equipment is not expensive. With REW software (free) and a Panasonic $2 mic capsule and a soundcard you can get started. Buy a calibrated mic for $80 if you want the next level but not expensive. Also, if new to designing crossovers I can highly recommend going active two-way with a pair of class D amps and a miniDSP. Will end up costing probably less than all the passive components to make a good crossover and extras needed to dial it in. The miniDSP will allow you to quickly get the system up and running and actually sound good, better than most beginner attempts at making XO's. Learn to use software to model your speaker too. Very important if you want to make your own design rather than just build to plan. Check out WinISD, Hornresp, AkAbak. All free.
Good luck!
Good luck!
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You can find the drivers needed here: Audiokit E-Shop (I'm no affiliated in any way, only a satisfied customer).
For the non standard pieces of the crossover (7 ohm resistor, 31uF cap and 0,30 mH coil) you have to adapt somewhere: 6R8 resistor instead, 15+15uF caps paralleled or 33uF cap, unwind a 0,33mH coil (OK if you have a multimeter, but the shop mentioned can do it for you).
Ralf
The safer stores are generally the ones that act as distributors for the main driver manufacturers. You can check yourself on the websites of SEAS, Scan-Speak, SB Acoustics, Tymphany, etc... For example, Falcon in the UK and Intertechnik in Germany are in this category as are one or two others.
Ordering from outside the EC is often both expensive and time consuming. For a modest 2 way DIY speaker I would suggest sticking to parts that can be bought from more than one source within the EC. I would also suggest ordering parts that are in stock because restocking can mean waiting several months. However if you deal with an official distributor they are usually fairly reliable when it comes to how long the parts will take to arrive from the manufacturer.
Published 2 way DIY designs from driver manufacturers like SEAS such as Mimir or Idunn are a pretty solid option though one or two of the more elaborate designs may be less so. Browsing the Intertechnik loudspeaker magazine may also help with finding a design you like and gaining some confidence in what is required to build it.
Hey, that's actually pretty encouraging.
In Europe, your best bet is probably, of course, European drivers. The first thing that came to my mind was Mark K's ER18DXT design. It has even power response, smooth frequency response, and shouldn't be difficult to build. The drivers are decently priced, although they're not "budget" like the Zaph stuff you're looking at.
That said, non-European brands are still sourcable in Europe as well, and may present cost-savings. This website:
Home | Speakers Intertechnik
Well help you get Dayton and Fountek drivers. On the note of fountek drivers, they're used in the Paul Carmody's speedsters, which are probably a good idea for a compact, high-performance build. Grab the Foundtek NeoCD1 there, and the Tang-Band W4-1720 here:
Blue planet acoustic | Tang Band W4-1720 Woofer | DIY
Here is the build info:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/speedster
Speaker Kit 5 2x Peerless M16NH 2x Monacor DT25N 2x Crossovers NEW items in willys-hifi loudspeaker spares store on eBay!
Hi, Is always worth a look for budget bundles, rgds, sreten.
They will ship to Portugal.
Hi, Is always worth a look for budget bundles, rgds, sreten.
They will ship to Portugal.
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Thanks for all the great suggestions.
The two links from Zaph are not definitive things that I want, I just used them as an example of a complete project that I could replicate at home and have something that works in the end.
I don't mind designing an enclosure, its just that I always thought that full range drivers required huge tall enclosures to tune them, but it seems that they can be made to work in small enclosures.
I'm not looking for a huge power output, the speakers will either live in my basement lab(if I call my workbench a lab), or in my university room, either way my basement room has about 30 square meters, the university room, maybe 15 square meters, so no need to even 10w of real power.
The amplifier I have been looking chipamps for a long time, the usual LM3886 and the like, but the TPA311x family seems also a nice little chip, in fact I do contract desing and assembly of custom projects and right now I have a pcb with a PCM2706 usb dac and a TPA3112 and its a compact combination that I might try for myself in the future.
In the electronics I have lots of experience with either Altium and Eagle, and I can solder smd's all day long, so no problem in that department.
If it isn't too much to ask, could you guys suggest a good full range for newbies like me?
I will download the suggested software to try out, and if you have tutorials that you can suggest I will be very gratefull.
About the software for testing, I have already seen ARTA, the only downside is that I only have a laptop, so I'm limited to either the internal audio chip or some external USB dac/adc.
For DSP duty there are some chips from Analog Devices that are programmed in a block style IDE that don't require ultra expensive compilers or proprietary JTAG dongles, they always seemed like something good to learn how to use, I might been showing a bit of the not invented here syndrome.
Again, thanks everybody for your time and patience to deal with my silly questions, best regards.
The two links from Zaph are not definitive things that I want, I just used them as an example of a complete project that I could replicate at home and have something that works in the end.
I don't mind designing an enclosure, its just that I always thought that full range drivers required huge tall enclosures to tune them, but it seems that they can be made to work in small enclosures.
I'm not looking for a huge power output, the speakers will either live in my basement lab(if I call my workbench a lab), or in my university room, either way my basement room has about 30 square meters, the university room, maybe 15 square meters, so no need to even 10w of real power.
The amplifier I have been looking chipamps for a long time, the usual LM3886 and the like, but the TPA311x family seems also a nice little chip, in fact I do contract desing and assembly of custom projects and right now I have a pcb with a PCM2706 usb dac and a TPA3112 and its a compact combination that I might try for myself in the future.
In the electronics I have lots of experience with either Altium and Eagle, and I can solder smd's all day long, so no problem in that department.
If it isn't too much to ask, could you guys suggest a good full range for newbies like me?
I will download the suggested software to try out, and if you have tutorials that you can suggest I will be very gratefull.
About the software for testing, I have already seen ARTA, the only downside is that I only have a laptop, so I'm limited to either the internal audio chip or some external USB dac/adc.
For DSP duty there are some chips from Analog Devices that are programmed in a block style IDE that don't require ultra expensive compilers or proprietary JTAG dongles, they always seemed like something good to learn how to use, I might been showing a bit of the not invented here syndrome.
Again, thanks everybody for your time and patience to deal with my silly questions, best regards.
Yes, and that's absolutely a sensible direction.
That would depend on the speaker. Some small bookshelves can lower than 82db/w/m. Considering crest factor and distance loss, 10W might or might not do the trick.
The Markaudio CHR-70 A seems nice, and as there is an official representant of the brand in Europe a pair with shipping to Portugal is "just" 86.90€, time to save up, I prefer to buy them first and then do the design and simulation part, or I might not be able to get them in the future.
Thanks for all those suggestions, if only shipping was not so expensive..
Thanks for all those suggestions, if only shipping was not so expensive..
Before parting with a significant amount of money I would suggest having a listen to some single driver speakers to determine if you find them good or not. Some people are enthusiastic about them but this enthusiasm is not widely held in the speaker community. For most the cons in terms of sound quality compared with conventional multiway speakers are immediately apparent but, speaking for myself, the pros are rather elusive.
Here is a glimpse of what a pair of 3.5in Vifa TC9FD's can sound like in a good cabinet that provides bass enhancement. There are several sound clips of recordings of this speaker at the bottom of post number 1. Use good headphones.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239338-mini-karlsonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds.html
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