Yes, sorry for the confusion. I'm referring to a full digital amp with, say, a USB input (external HD with music library) that does not have traditional D/A conversion but rather converts PCM to PWM. Basically, a one-box solution. The NAD uses the Zetex chip while others use some TI chips. I believe Hifimediy is an example. I'm hoping to be pointed to the best implementations (4 layer board, ground, power supply, etc) all covered well. Thanks
Hifimediy DDX320 is not TI but Appogee DDX technology - now under the ST brand.
To the DIY'er there is very few boards out there. TI have some evaluation boards
Speaker Amplifier and Modulator - Mid/High-Power Amplifier - TAS5631B - TI.com
, and then there is a low power amp from MiniDSP, and the DDX from hifimediy. Panasonic have some surround amps, that sound very good, and some claim that they can be modded (better PSU) to sound very close to Lyngdorf.
The Panasonic range of amps is around 100 US$ used, so not much too lose trying those. I have a SA-XR55 and a MiniAMP from MiniDSP and have listend a lot to TACT Millenium Mk. III
To the DIY'er there is very few boards out there. TI have some evaluation boards
Speaker Amplifier and Modulator - Mid/High-Power Amplifier - TAS5631B - TI.com
, and then there is a low power amp from MiniDSP, and the DDX from hifimediy. Panasonic have some surround amps, that sound very good, and some claim that they can be modded (better PSU) to sound very close to Lyngdorf.
The Panasonic range of amps is around 100 US$ used, so not much too lose trying those. I have a SA-XR55 and a MiniAMP from MiniDSP and have listend a lot to TACT Millenium Mk. III
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Kjeldsen, thank you for your feedback. It sounds like you have experimented in this area and have heard an excellent TacT amp for comparison.
Would I be correct in deducting from your post that, of the MiniAmp, Sony and HifimeDiy, that perhaps the Sony is the best platform to tweak?
Are you using smps or linear supplies? I've read that Core Audio Technology in California (direct sales via Audiogon) is using linear supplies. But there is very little info on all of these devices.
I had a chance to demo the NAD C390DD as I was asked to purchase by a friend and then forward onto Europe. I was pretty impressed. Very neutral. If there was a weakness it was vocals compared to my 300B based system. Yet, I don't need the features of the NAD, and am hopeful that the quality should be approachable at 10% of the price by DIY'g.
Would I be correct in deducting from your post that, of the MiniAmp, Sony and HifimeDiy, that perhaps the Sony is the best platform to tweak?
Are you using smps or linear supplies? I've read that Core Audio Technology in California (direct sales via Audiogon) is using linear supplies. But there is very little info on all of these devices.
I had a chance to demo the NAD C390DD as I was asked to purchase by a friend and then forward onto Europe. I was pretty impressed. Very neutral. If there was a weakness it was vocals compared to my 300B based system. Yet, I don't need the features of the NAD, and am hopeful that the quality should be approachable at 10% of the price by DIY'g.
Maybe you should try this one
| SUMOH | True digital amplifiers
My experience is that the Tact by far is the best amplifier I have ever heard. The equibit technology developed by Tact is now owned by Texas Instruments. The digitally controlled PWM amplifiers I have heard do not present you with full bodied vocals. They do sound a bit thin. But, they also are very revealing and have a very relaxed way of presenting complex recorded material. That's what I love with the full digital amps. NXP8950th based analogue PWM amps, have more of the richness in vocals as I know from class A and tubes. I have a couple of those to, and are quite fond of them.
The Panasonic (not Sony) SA-XR50 or 55 do sound very good unmodded - just dont push them, then they will sound horrible, and only use digital input. Analogue input on these amps are not good (AD conversion lack in quality).
I know one i Denmark who made a linear supply for the SA-XR55, and he was impressed how close the sound quality got to Tact.
The MiniAMP from MiniDSP is eather 4x10 watt in 4 ohm or 2x20 watt in 8 ohm (here the loads absolutely needs to be 8 ohm´and no less than 6 ohm).
| SUMOH | True digital amplifiers
My experience is that the Tact by far is the best amplifier I have ever heard. The equibit technology developed by Tact is now owned by Texas Instruments. The digitally controlled PWM amplifiers I have heard do not present you with full bodied vocals. They do sound a bit thin. But, they also are very revealing and have a very relaxed way of presenting complex recorded material. That's what I love with the full digital amps. NXP8950th based analogue PWM amps, have more of the richness in vocals as I know from class A and tubes. I have a couple of those to, and are quite fond of them.
The Panasonic (not Sony) SA-XR50 or 55 do sound very good unmodded - just dont push them, then they will sound horrible, and only use digital input. Analogue input on these amps are not good (AD conversion lack in quality).
I know one i Denmark who made a linear supply for the SA-XR55, and he was impressed how close the sound quality got to Tact.
The MiniAMP from MiniDSP is eather 4x10 watt in 4 ohm or 2x20 watt in 8 ohm (here the loads absolutely needs to be 8 ohm´and no less than 6 ohm).
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I havn't listened the NAD amp.
Though I listened to the NAD M51 (also DDFA ) + a class D amp at a friends place.
That combination sounded awesome.
I do run a tweaked DDX320 for quite some time ( which left my TP Buffalo plus Class-D amp behind)
I've done some tweaking on the DDX320 FDA. (You'll find an FDA article on my blog and discussions in the HifiMeDiy vendor forum.)
Without that tweaking it the DDX is IMO an average performer.
You probably are better of buying one of those 200-300 FDAs.
With my tweaks the DDX is IMO a great sounding device and pricewise
a steal. My mods didn't cost much. At a total of 150 $ (includes the LiPoFe batteries) a DAC incl. amp at this quality is hard to beat.
CSR with DDFA seems to offer a developments/evaluation board soon ( there's another thread over rhere @DIYA). That might be interesting.
NAD will also launch a new product line in July. Those FDAs will be called D7050 D3020. They come with USB input - DLNA/UPNP and wireless (7050) as well as bluetooth APX.
I'd say that these devices are gonna be very interesting. Keep the fingers crossed that they managed to built in even better soundquality then their older devices.
I'd be very tempted to try the big one.
Though I listened to the NAD M51 (also DDFA ) + a class D amp at a friends place.
That combination sounded awesome.
I do run a tweaked DDX320 for quite some time ( which left my TP Buffalo plus Class-D amp behind)
I've done some tweaking on the DDX320 FDA. (You'll find an FDA article on my blog and discussions in the HifiMeDiy vendor forum.)
Without that tweaking it the DDX is IMO an average performer.
You probably are better of buying one of those 200-300 FDAs.
With my tweaks the DDX is IMO a great sounding device and pricewise
a steal. My mods didn't cost much. At a total of 150 $ (includes the LiPoFe batteries) a DAC incl. amp at this quality is hard to beat.
CSR with DDFA seems to offer a developments/evaluation board soon ( there's another thread over rhere @DIYA). That might be interesting.
NAD will also launch a new product line in July. Those FDAs will be called D7050 D3020. They come with USB input - DLNA/UPNP and wireless (7050) as well as bluetooth APX.
I'd say that these devices are gonna be very interesting. Keep the fingers crossed that they managed to built in even better soundquality then their older devices.
I'd be very tempted to try the big one.
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I read your blog and HiFiMeDIY appears to be incorporating user feedback into their new releases. Maybe they will keep revising and improving? Your observation that this rivals an M51 + Amp is encouraging. However, the slightly more expensive FDAs don't seem to review favorably against the NAD C390DD, which is the quality I'm shooting for. See this review:
CLASS D INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER SHOOTOUT 2012
I've been reading Bruno Putzeys white papers in the last few days, and he is generally pretty critical of these digital amp designs (PCM => PWM). However, I did come across his February '12 post:
I cannot decipher if he is talking about building a Power Dac, or just plans to use some of the electronic principles to improve traditional D/A conversion...this latter concept is addressed in some of his whitepapers. Anyone know about these developments?
Ultimately, whether it is FDA or otherwise, I'm seeking a high quality one-box solution for lifestyle reasons (space, young kids, etc.).
Hi.
Putzey is a "salesman" first of all. He needs to sell stuff that he can deliver.
Quite some PWM/PCM technology is covered by patents.
As long as he is not coming up with his own ideas, he won't jump on that train. For sure he won't license any of the stuff out there.
And if you commit yourself to this kind of business, you should also be able to come up with highest quality inputstages (USB,SPDIF,HDMI,wireless,blutooth,ethernet). And that's a real challenge.
I still own 2 UCD180HG btw. These are settling dust since quite some time.
I wrote them a mail a while ago, asking if they wouldn't be interested building a PCM/PWM amp. I received a pretty clear "NO".
I know that HifiMeDIY is working on a different FDA project. However. Their 40$ Sabre DACs are selling like mushrooms. That's where they put priorities.
And then those guys are not commited to highest audio quality. They focus on best price/performance ratio. We can't really expect top level stuff.
To me the upopming NAD devices seem to be very promising as universal devices and on top of that you'll get the known DDFA qualities.
With networking,bluetooth and USB these devices are most flexible.
I hope that these devices deliver even better SQ then its predecssors.
Options of how to use them are really interesting.
You just stream your stuff from your (or any other family member) phone/tablet via bluetooth to the amp.
Or if you like, you take the squeezeplayer app and make your droid a squeeze-bluetooth transport towards the NAD.
You can use them in a DLNA environment. OR simple as USB DAC/AMP.
For sure I'll have one of these over here for testing as soon as they
come out.
Cheers
Putzey is a "salesman" first of all. He needs to sell stuff that he can deliver.
Quite some PWM/PCM technology is covered by patents.
As long as he is not coming up with his own ideas, he won't jump on that train. For sure he won't license any of the stuff out there.
And if you commit yourself to this kind of business, you should also be able to come up with highest quality inputstages (USB,SPDIF,HDMI,wireless,blutooth,ethernet). And that's a real challenge.
I still own 2 UCD180HG btw. These are settling dust since quite some time.
I wrote them a mail a while ago, asking if they wouldn't be interested building a PCM/PWM amp. I received a pretty clear "NO".
I know that HifiMeDIY is working on a different FDA project. However. Their 40$ Sabre DACs are selling like mushrooms. That's where they put priorities.
And then those guys are not commited to highest audio quality. They focus on best price/performance ratio. We can't really expect top level stuff.
To me the upopming NAD devices seem to be very promising as universal devices and on top of that you'll get the known DDFA qualities.
With networking,bluetooth and USB these devices are most flexible.
I hope that these devices deliver even better SQ then its predecssors.
Options of how to use them are really interesting.
You just stream your stuff from your (or any other family member) phone/tablet via bluetooth to the amp.
Or if you like, you take the squeezeplayer app and make your droid a squeeze-bluetooth transport towards the NAD.
You can use them in a DLNA environment. OR simple as USB DAC/AMP.
For sure I'll have one of these over here for testing as soon as they
come out.
Cheers
Hi all.
I'm pretty interessed on building a full digital system, biampling with 2 ways, with the use of JRiver or so, with the best SQ/Price ratio.
Now what I found around the net are very few really interesting boards, so I'm a little confused.
In the end, my troubles are about the choice of a 96/192KHz i2s to analog amplifier, whit more than 20W/ch (like miniAmp) or 40W/ch (like stereophonics true digital amplifier board).
I saw that there are no more hifimediy boards in stock, and my knowledge about digital amplifier bords ends here (not concerning true advanced projects).
Are there out there TI evaluation boards that allow to easily build a pair of stereo ampli of, say, 80W/channel?
My goal is to route out from usb to i2s 8 channel using USBStreamer by miniDSP, that allow the 192KHz/ch (used like an asio soundcard), xoing the 2way with jriver.
I don't like the concept of first make a clean conversion from i2s to analog with the best dac I got, and then re-converse my precious digital signal from analog to pwm on the first stage of, say, Hypex/Abletec.
I really would like to know any suggest on this direction.
TIA.
I'm pretty interessed on building a full digital system, biampling with 2 ways, with the use of JRiver or so, with the best SQ/Price ratio.
Now what I found around the net are very few really interesting boards, so I'm a little confused.
In the end, my troubles are about the choice of a 96/192KHz i2s to analog amplifier, whit more than 20W/ch (like miniAmp) or 40W/ch (like stereophonics true digital amplifier board).
I saw that there are no more hifimediy boards in stock, and my knowledge about digital amplifier bords ends here (not concerning true advanced projects).
Are there out there TI evaluation boards that allow to easily build a pair of stereo ampli of, say, 80W/channel?
My goal is to route out from usb to i2s 8 channel using USBStreamer by miniDSP, that allow the 192KHz/ch (used like an asio soundcard), xoing the 2way with jriver.
I don't like the concept of first make a clean conversion from i2s to analog with the best dac I got, and then re-converse my precious digital signal from analog to pwm on the first stage of, say, Hypex/Abletec.
I really would like to know any suggest on this direction.
TIA.
The TI eval boards are all expensive. That's why I buy Panasonic SA-XR used. You get 6 channels for 100$. The old SA-XR10 is 45 watt as i remember (6 or 8 ohm) and is eval boards build in to a cabinet. I don't know how easy it is, but some help could be found here (far to technical for me)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/22741-high-resolution-multi-channel-digital-interface.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/22741-high-resolution-multi-channel-digital-interface.html
they pop up from time to time. All SA-XR models are pure digital.
I find mine on danish site Nyt og brugt, køb og salg på DBA - Danmarks største handelsportal og hifi sites. dba is part of ebay but only in danish
I find mine on danish site Nyt og brugt, køb og salg på DBA - Danmarks største handelsportal og hifi sites. dba is part of ebay but only in danish
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