Bakoon Amplifiers ~ Flying Under the Radar of DIYAudio.com?
Hi Folks,
Having searched on this DIYAudio.com forum for anything to do with Bakoon amplifiers and coming up with nada (nothing), I thought I would make this post.
I have the original little Bakoon amp in house. The 15w/ch Bakoon SCA-7511 Mk II integrated amplifier, $4K retail, made in Japan and with a proprietary unique Satri circuitry.
I have had quite a few amps tube-solid-state-digital-chip amps-ClassA-Passlabs-Firstwatt-Krell-Naim-Musical Fidelity-Supratek SETs-Audio Research-Accuphase-B&O ICE-Bel Canto-Tripath & Texas Instruments Equibit chip etc.
As a point of reference, I currently have Firstwatt clone F3, F5 amps, Krell KSA50, LM3875/4780/3886 chip amps, ICE ASP250 and push pull 845-300B-6SN7 Class A tube mono blocs.
However, none of these amps get 'under my skin' like the Bakoon amplifier. It is an amp that is lit up from the inside, free and unfettered of the electronics, hardly any sense of artificiality.
The Bakoon just sounds right to me ... tactile, connected to the music, tonally correct, extremely hear-through in character, the most transparent overall (even more so than valves, if that can be believed) and really good at the transient leading edges of the music, good at the attack and decay and it does this without any harshness.
The Bakoon amp is apparently just a well sorted Class AB circuit with unique Satri circuit, see 6Moons.com review here:
6moons audio reviews: Bakoon Products Intl. Amp 11R
What I am wondering is whether any of the DIYAudio.com audio gurus have studied or understand the Bakoon Satri circuit? What makes it so SPECIAL?
As usual nothing in life is perfect, as the small 15 w/ch Bakoon amp seems a bit weak in the bass and cannot drive difficult speaker loads. However, in the overall voicing, the clarity of midrange and treble - it is sublime, and possibly exceeds the best traditional tube and Class A solid state amps, IME.
Bakoon does make more powerful amplifiers up to 100w/ch, but they are quite expensive and the talk on the street is that the little 15 watter has the 'magic' .
Regards,
Steve.
My Blog: Steve M 's Audio System
Hi Folks,
Having searched on this DIYAudio.com forum for anything to do with Bakoon amplifiers and coming up with nada (nothing), I thought I would make this post.
I have the original little Bakoon amp in house. The 15w/ch Bakoon SCA-7511 Mk II integrated amplifier, $4K retail, made in Japan and with a proprietary unique Satri circuitry.
I have had quite a few amps tube-solid-state-digital-chip amps-ClassA-Passlabs-Firstwatt-Krell-Naim-Musical Fidelity-Supratek SETs-Audio Research-Accuphase-B&O ICE-Bel Canto-Tripath & Texas Instruments Equibit chip etc.
As a point of reference, I currently have Firstwatt clone F3, F5 amps, Krell KSA50, LM3875/4780/3886 chip amps, ICE ASP250 and push pull 845-300B-6SN7 Class A tube mono blocs.
However, none of these amps get 'under my skin' like the Bakoon amplifier. It is an amp that is lit up from the inside, free and unfettered of the electronics, hardly any sense of artificiality.
The Bakoon just sounds right to me ... tactile, connected to the music, tonally correct, extremely hear-through in character, the most transparent overall (even more so than valves, if that can be believed) and really good at the transient leading edges of the music, good at the attack and decay and it does this without any harshness.
The Bakoon amp is apparently just a well sorted Class AB circuit with unique Satri circuit, see 6Moons.com review here:
6moons audio reviews: Bakoon Products Intl. Amp 11R
What I am wondering is whether any of the DIYAudio.com audio gurus have studied or understand the Bakoon Satri circuit? What makes it so SPECIAL?
As usual nothing in life is perfect, as the small 15 w/ch Bakoon amp seems a bit weak in the bass and cannot drive difficult speaker loads. However, in the overall voicing, the clarity of midrange and treble - it is sublime, and possibly exceeds the best traditional tube and Class A solid state amps, IME.
Bakoon does make more powerful amplifiers up to 100w/ch, but they are quite expensive and the talk on the street is that the little 15 watter has the 'magic' .
Regards,
Steve.
My Blog: Steve M 's Audio System
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There could be a reason why a factory-built amplifier has not been mentioned on DIYaudio. Is a circuit diagram and meaningful description available? 6moons is not highly regarded on here. It could be that the 'Satri' circuit is another manifestation of the Gilbert precision BJT method, but audio reviewers rarely give enough technical details - either they don't have them or they don't understand them.
Hi, Gentlemen! I'd like to explain my impressions of comparative listening of Satri 15 and 35 w vs AN Quest monoblocks. The sourse was the same -Micromega s 2. the load was the same -those vintage cubic top-glassed JBL (sorry have forgotten the model). the identical wire... I have recorded a CD-compilation including russian orthodox church quartet (male), Brenda Lee, the Aborted (Archaic abattour), A. Bocelli (Opera album), and David Gray's "Draw the line" who's voice seems to be a real audioterminator.
Satri impressed me that time -especially the senior model, although connected to 'V' not "I" RCA sockets. Maybe that was the reason i have chosen Quests. They played dynamic, wide, transient -taking under control the trash metal hurricane of Aborted, the same time gently preparing slightest nuances of church singers. Fantastic Brenda Lee remained very clear allthough sharp and non-affected by distorsion. It was moreover, the most "big" sound of all three.
A pity, but that time we didn't have Satri CD player and those large horns, and the last cornerstone -regenerated power. If it was so... who knows. Satri seems to be a complex of a monobrand products created to be coupled one to another, like AN. but I've heared that the Satri engeneer strictly recomended large horns as an appropriate load. for me that was a rear experience,as this brand is not widely discussed.
Satri impressed me that time -especially the senior model, although connected to 'V' not "I" RCA sockets. Maybe that was the reason i have chosen Quests. They played dynamic, wide, transient -taking under control the trash metal hurricane of Aborted, the same time gently preparing slightest nuances of church singers. Fantastic Brenda Lee remained very clear allthough sharp and non-affected by distorsion. It was moreover, the most "big" sound of all three.
A pity, but that time we didn't have Satri CD player and those large horns, and the last cornerstone -regenerated power. If it was so... who knows. Satri seems to be a complex of a monobrand products created to be coupled one to another, like AN. but I've heared that the Satri engeneer strictly recomended large horns as an appropriate load. for me that was a rear experience,as this brand is not widely discussed.
Yawn... my entire system is not worth $4k... the "high end" market is nothing but crazy
I bet this amp has parts worth at least $49 inside that fancy $300 case. Maybe "Satri" means "chip amp biased into Class-A operation"? That would explain the 15W output...
-Charlie
The usual el-cheapo cynicism. Is Nelson Pass, Bakoon or whoever else not allowed to make some money from their creativity and endeavors??
More shots of the innards of the Bakoon amp. So what's going with the circuit, boys? Any clues as to why it sounds so 'special' ? Apparently the input circuit is very different.
I'm waiting for comment from some of you autistic savant guys to see a unique pattern within these pics ...
Regards,
Steve.
I'm waiting for comment from some of you autistic savant guys to see a unique pattern within these pics ...
Regards,
Steve.
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I fail to see how the topology is either special or proprierty, it resembles or rather lets say it copies the topolgies from the early 1980s current feedback opamps. In this case no feedback is used. Current feedback amps can and do sound very good because of their speed and wide bandwith. Have a look at the SSA thread, youll find similar circuit is used in the beginning stages but there no use of current mirrors is made although this helps linearity as there is absence of feedback. This circuit also makes use of a much better outputstage so I would think the circuit could indeed sound good.
We may be "autistic savant guys" (not sure if that was meant as an insult or compliment) but we cannot comment on a circuit we have not seen. Photographs tell us very little.
And who says it sounds 'special'? Anecdotal evidence is known to be highly misleading, especialy when claims are made about something the reporter has had the great wisdom to purchase. Just try asking a man to criticise the new car he has just bought!
And who says it sounds 'special'? Anecdotal evidence is known to be highly misleading, especialy when claims are made about something the reporter has had the great wisdom to purchase. Just try asking a man to criticise the new car he has just bought!
One obvious thing: a lot of thought has gone into the power supplies, the smoothing caps are small radials, a large number in parallel. The voltage rails would be very low impedance, and the supply to the circuits superbly stable: this can be a large part of the battle ...
FRank
Hi DF96,
I'm a pretty easy going Aussie bloke who's been thru' the loop with all things audio ...its all good to me and I mean 'savant/geeky' in the most positive way, its all cool to me! And, you can only judge 'special' in terms of what I have heard and as displayed thru' my Blog Steve M 's Audio System, if that means anything? I'll leave that for others to judge. I am not adverse to DIY projects either as I have made several speakers and amplifiers, although my knowledge and skill is probably poor compared to some of you guys.
Trust me, the Bakoon circuit is a VERY special sounding amp. IME, it cuts through all the bs ...the music just sounds real and is laid bare, raw and wriggling as Gollum on Lord of the Rings would say. The next best amp in my experience is the Nelson Pass F3, which does similar things and with better bass and drive.
Homemodder & fas42: thanks for the comments, its the sort of insight I was seeking to read.
I would like some more thoughts on the Bakkon circuit pics from the many smart guys/gals on this site, including the commercial people who have much to share ...all in the quest of knowledge and good sound, no other motive.
Cheers,
Steve.
Steve M 's Audio System
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Yeah I guess it does, sorry. I'm just a normal guy who has tried a lot of things, gain from this what you can ?
Steve.
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Just from looking at the pictures I see some strange things, BNC connectors used as LS connectors? weird..
The power supply looks like a traditional design, a diode bridge with a bank of capacitors (Panasonic FC from the looks of it). I also spot a ALPS pot and a really nice (aluminium?) case.
Nothing really special so far, good quality components probably (as it should be if the price tag is $4K).
If you can post some schematics, then we can have a real look at what's going on with this amp.
Edit: just had a look at your site, looks nice! 1 remark, there is no such thing as a first order LR filter only even order LR configs are possible ;-) http://www.linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm
The power supply looks like a traditional design, a diode bridge with a bank of capacitors (Panasonic FC from the looks of it). I also spot a ALPS pot and a really nice (aluminium?) case.
Nothing really special so far, good quality components probably (as it should be if the price tag is $4K).
If you can post some schematics, then we can have a real look at what's going on with this amp.
Edit: just had a look at your site, looks nice! 1 remark, there is no such thing as a first order LR filter only even order LR configs are possible ;-) http://www.linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm
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Thanks Bonsai & Mark ...my Blog site is nothing more than stuff I have had/heard and my opinions on it, nothing more. Experience does count for something I suppose.
This is why the Bakoon amplifier baffles me, they seem to be doing something right, something that we are ALL chasing - ultimate fidelity ...
Cheers,
Steve.
This is why the Bakoon amplifier baffles me, they seem to be doing something right, something that we are ALL chasing - ultimate fidelity ...
Cheers,
Steve.
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