Hi guys,
I have had a bit of a look around, but have not found anything to replace the current out of stock of the P.Audio HP10W's drivers for the Boominator.
I have found some Autotek M10-4 10" Full Range Car Speaker's that look like the goods (I'm just looking for 10", high sensitivity and wide range) , but not much information on building a back to back speaker cabinet such as the boominator for portability.
I know I'll most likely need a tweeter which is no prob.
Power Handling:
200 Watts RMS
400 Watts Max Power
10" Diameter
1.5" Voice Coil
4 Ohms Impedance
Stamped Steel Basket
Treated Pressed Paper Cone
Cloth W Surround
Polished Aluminum Phase Plug
Poly Cotton Spider
Frequency Response: 100 Hz - 8000 Hz
Top-mount depth: 3-1/3"
Sensitivity: 96.1 dB (1w/1m)
39 oz Magnet
Weight: 7.25 lbs
Autotek M10-4 (M104) Mean Machine 10" Full Range Pro Audio Driver
Anyone know if these would work in the application I am chasing...
that is: the Boominator style box with 4 drivers (2 back to back) in an Ported/MTLT style design, with some Class D either 20+20w ot 100+100w Tripath and some sealed Led acid deep cycle batteries and a solar panel.
I have had a bit of a look around, but have not found anything to replace the current out of stock of the P.Audio HP10W's drivers for the Boominator.
I have found some Autotek M10-4 10" Full Range Car Speaker's that look like the goods (I'm just looking for 10", high sensitivity and wide range) , but not much information on building a back to back speaker cabinet such as the boominator for portability.
I know I'll most likely need a tweeter which is no prob.
Power Handling:
200 Watts RMS
400 Watts Max Power
10" Diameter
1.5" Voice Coil
4 Ohms Impedance
Stamped Steel Basket
Treated Pressed Paper Cone
Cloth W Surround
Polished Aluminum Phase Plug
Poly Cotton Spider
Frequency Response: 100 Hz - 8000 Hz
Top-mount depth: 3-1/3"
Sensitivity: 96.1 dB (1w/1m)
39 oz Magnet
Weight: 7.25 lbs
Autotek M10-4 (M104) Mean Machine 10" Full Range Pro Audio Driver
Anyone know if these would work in the application I am chasing...
that is: the Boominator style box with 4 drivers (2 back to back) in an Ported/MTLT style design, with some Class D either 20+20w ot 100+100w Tripath and some sealed Led acid deep cycle batteries and a solar panel.
The PAudio HP10W's appear to be in stock at cannon sound in Sydney.
P.Audio HP-10W 10 Inch 100 Watt Low Frequency Public Address Systems | Portable PA Systems | DJ Equipment & Lighting
Having said that, they aren't really terribly 'full range'. They go up to 2-3k, as you would expect for a driver of this type. Pretty easy match with a tweeter in a 2way - cannon sound have many cheap tweeters to choose from, including some ripper Seleniums at bargain prices.
Clue me in if I have missed the point.
Regards,
blakkenstein
Sweet, gonna get some of those.
Also any recommendation on a tweeter form cannonsound to go with the boomer?
would I be looking at the Selenium ST300 Ring Radiator Supertweeter $29ea, I would still need 4, 2 per side ?
Saturnus did specify to use a Piezo
What about the Piezo 85 x 85mm 150watt Horn Tweeter (similar to Motorola KSN1005)
Impedance: 4 - 8 ohms
Power: 75W RMS, 150W max.
Frequency response: 2kHz - 20kHz
Sensitivity: 94 dB (2.83V/M)
Good sensitivity and good crossover range with the hp10w?
hp10w (about 90db) 30 - ~4Khz (yes the boom will be configured for about 100hz?)
piezo horn tweeter 2kHz - 20kHz - a capacitor somewhere in there...
Also any recommendation on a tweeter form cannonsound to go with the boomer?
would I be looking at the Selenium ST300 Ring Radiator Supertweeter $29ea, I would still need 4, 2 per side ?
Saturnus did specify to use a Piezo
What about the Piezo 85 x 85mm 150watt Horn Tweeter (similar to Motorola KSN1005)
Impedance: 4 - 8 ohms
Power: 75W RMS, 150W max.
Frequency response: 2kHz - 20kHz
Sensitivity: 94 dB (2.83V/M)
Good sensitivity and good crossover range with the hp10w?
hp10w (about 90db) 30 - ~4Khz (yes the boom will be configured for about 100hz?)
piezo horn tweeter 2kHz - 20kHz - a capacitor somewhere in there...
For a succinct explanation of how to best use a piezo tweeter, see
Piezo Tweeter Crossovers | J Risch
I have the HP12W's, which are rated about 1dB more sensitive than the HP10W and one piezo tweeter (the very ones sold by cannon sound, in fact) can't quite keep up SPL wise. Two in parallel works fine and they are that cheap that you can use any number of them to get more output if necessary (array them vertically if you have room, of course).
The Seleniums will need a proper crossover to ensure adequate power handling, although they are MUCH more sensitive than the piezos and will need to be padded down a bit. Also beware the ST300 is designed for a 'long throw' application and has quite tightly controlled and narrow dispersion that might be a problem if listening up close.
In passing, the cannon sound piezos (in fact, most of the Chinese sourced cheap piezos) may look like the KSN1005 but they don't measure much like them. Still great value, and effective in many applications but they are not the equal of the genuine article IMHO.
Rgds,
blakkintyre
Piezo Tweeter Crossovers | J Risch
I have the HP12W's, which are rated about 1dB more sensitive than the HP10W and one piezo tweeter (the very ones sold by cannon sound, in fact) can't quite keep up SPL wise. Two in parallel works fine and they are that cheap that you can use any number of them to get more output if necessary (array them vertically if you have room, of course).
The Seleniums will need a proper crossover to ensure adequate power handling, although they are MUCH more sensitive than the piezos and will need to be padded down a bit. Also beware the ST300 is designed for a 'long throw' application and has quite tightly controlled and narrow dispersion that might be a problem if listening up close.
In passing, the cannon sound piezos (in fact, most of the Chinese sourced cheap piezos) may look like the KSN1005 but they don't measure much like them. Still great value, and effective in many applications but they are not the equal of the genuine article IMHO.
Rgds,
blakkintyre
blakkshepeaudio, I ordered 8 x KSN1005 before finsh reading your post 
8 x hp10w's sitting in a box waiting to be noisified
I also have 12 Tymphany Peerless BC25SC15-04 's that I could put to good use...
I may end up doing 2 boominators ( I am donig a duplicate for a mte, but it might end up being NOT a duplicate)...
Boominator 1:
4 of the Cannon Horn tweeters for each channel (ie all 8 horn tweeters)
Boominator 2:
4 of the peerless silk dome tweeters for each channel.
I guess I put them together when I get the amps done and see how much I can actually hear as both are within 1db of each other...
Or if it's a stupid idea to mix them together somoehow to get a better SPL and short - long throw noise
Maybe this thread should be renamed, Boomundernator , as in: Aussie down under boominator lol.
On another note, currentl listening to Pink Floyd - The Division Bell with these oldies I picked up last week from the recycle Center Fantastic warm sound!
8 x hp10w's sitting in a box waiting to be noisified
I also have 12 Tymphany Peerless BC25SC15-04 's that I could put to good use...
I may end up doing 2 boominators ( I am donig a duplicate for a mte, but it might end up being NOT a duplicate)...
Boominator 1:
4 of the Cannon Horn tweeters for each channel (ie all 8 horn tweeters)
Boominator 2:
4 of the peerless silk dome tweeters for each channel.
I guess I put them together when I get the amps done and see how much I can actually hear as both are within 1db of each other...
Or if it's a stupid idea to mix them together somoehow to get a better SPL and short - long throw noise
Maybe this thread should be renamed, Boomundernator , as in: Aussie down under boominator lol.
On another note, currentl listening to Pink Floyd - The Division Bell with these oldies I picked up last week from the recycle Center
Fantastic warm sound!
Last edited:
Cool !
Are you planning on two drivers in each box or four? Remember that efficiency / sensitivity is dependent on load impedance and series / parallel connection scheme.
So matching tweeter sensitivity needs to take that into account.
FWIW, at the price I'd put all 4 piezos in each box and pad them down if you need to. If you have any decent EQ available, you could bring down the top end with that and save a bit of amp power maybe.
Those Peerless tweeters look pretty good. Maybe make a smaller sub-baffle to mount the tweeters to, and then screw that to the cabinet baffle. Then you can try out all sorts of tweeter arrangements with minimum effort.
A word of warning - the Peerless (or any other traditional moving coil tweeter) WILL need a good, pretty steep crossover if it is to survive long term high SPL use.
If you've got plenty, use more of them and spread the power around.....
If you start cooking them, maybe look at polyswitch or fuse protection, although they do look like sturdy little buggers.
Rgds,
blakkwater
Are you planning on two drivers in each box or four? Remember that efficiency / sensitivity is dependent on load impedance and series / parallel connection scheme.
So matching tweeter sensitivity needs to take that into account.
FWIW, at the price I'd put all 4 piezos in each box and pad them down if you need to. If you have any decent EQ available, you could bring down the top end with that and save a bit of amp power maybe.
Those Peerless tweeters look pretty good. Maybe make a smaller sub-baffle to mount the tweeters to, and then screw that to the cabinet baffle. Then you can try out all sorts of tweeter arrangements with minimum effort.
A word of warning - the Peerless (or any other traditional moving coil tweeter) WILL need a good, pretty steep crossover if it is to survive long term high SPL use.
If you've got plenty, use more of them and spread the power around.....
If you start cooking them, maybe look at polyswitch or fuse protection, although they do look like sturdy little buggers.
Rgds,
blakkwater
The plan is the classic boominator 2 hp10w's per channel, the woofers look awesome, and solidly built! No wonder saturnus used them as the internal bracing
Extra baffle for the tweeters sound like a good idea, I haven't bought the wood yet, but eyeing up some 12mm ply and will add some serious waterproofing treatment to the wood inside and out.
As I said before I have 8 of those horn tweeters, and 8 peerless so it will work out to 4 per channel. ( basically 2 x per woofer )
Just need to workout how to wire them up
Extra baffle for the tweeters sound like a good idea, I haven't bought the wood yet, but eyeing up some 12mm ply and will add some serious waterproofing treatment to the wood inside and out.
As I said before I have 8 of those horn tweeters, and 8 peerless so it will work out to 4 per channel. ( basically 2 x per woofer )
Just need to workout how to wire them up
I think THIS should be right for using 2 piezo's per channel, but I am not sure how to wire in 4 per channel.
And the resistors being 33 or 47ohm metal film 2W
Amp R + --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
Amp R - --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Paralleled with
+ --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
- --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Amp L + --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
Amp L - --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Paralleled with
+ --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
- --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
so to wire in 4 piezo's per Chanel would I parallel the piezo after the resistor, or series?
Sorry I tried doing a text diagram , but can't do it lol...
And the resistors being 33 or 47ohm metal film 2W
Amp R + --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
Amp R - --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Paralleled with
+ --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
- --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Amp L + --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
Amp L - --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Paralleled with
+ --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
- --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
so to wire in 4 piezo's per Chanel would I parallel the piezo after the resistor, or series?
Sorry I tried doing a text diagram , but can't do it lol...
Woot, found some reasonable priced woofer grills. Ordered!
Still need:
Wood
Resistors for piezo's
Batteries
Circle jig (going to make a diy jig for my router)
Some alluminium L shape for edging
Some glue/cement to join the hp10w magnets back to back.
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-21.171309,149.127210
Still need:
Wood
Resistors for piezo's
Batteries
Circle jig (going to make a diy jig for my router)
Some alluminium L shape for edging
Some glue/cement to join the hp10w magnets back to back.
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-21.171309,149.127210
Slowly cooming together.
Amps - Lepai LP-2020+ ( has tone bypass switch) I must say they are a hell of a lot 'higher' toned than the original Lepai I bought about 5 years ago...
2 batteries I scored out of a dead UPS, physically bigger than the 7 or 9ah recommended, but I guess I just need to adjust the center pocket space.
THere will be 1 battery per boominator, so when it goes flat, that's it, It will have to be recharged.
Unless I find another pair of batteries for the second boominator, then I have a 'spare' when it goes flat. ( not doing the Solar panel add on at this stage).
The batteries are sealed Lead acid, 12v, 17Ah.
Being a UPS battery, I would assume they are designed to 'run flat'?
The amp says 20w RMS, I am guessing per channel?
even if I run it at 15w continuous x 2 channels is 30w so If I use the basic formula ( not taking into consideration of any other variables)
P=VI P/V=I 30/12=2.5 Ah/I=time 17/2.5=6.8hrs
or running amp and half volume 2 x 10w
20/12=1.67 Ah/I=time 17/1.67=10.2hrs
Still need:
Wood
Resistors for piezo's
Circle jig (still going to make a diy jig for my router)
Similar to this one: How to Make a Router Circle Cutting Jig
Some alluminium L shape for edging
Some glue/cement to join the hp10w magnets back to back.
Amps - Lepai LP-2020+ ( has tone bypass switch) I must say they are a hell of a lot 'higher' toned than the original Lepai I bought about 5 years ago...
2 batteries I scored out of a dead UPS, physically bigger than the 7 or 9ah recommended, but I guess I just need to adjust the center pocket space.
THere will be 1 battery per boominator, so when it goes flat, that's it, It will have to be recharged.
Unless I find another pair of batteries for the second boominator, then I have a 'spare' when it goes flat. ( not doing the Solar panel add on at this stage).
The batteries are sealed Lead acid, 12v, 17Ah.
Being a UPS battery, I would assume they are designed to 'run flat'?
The amp says 20w RMS, I am guessing per channel?
even if I run it at 15w continuous x 2 channels is 30w so If I use the basic formula ( not taking into consideration of any other variables)
P=VI P/V=I 30/12=2.5 Ah/I=time 17/2.5=6.8hrs
or running amp and half volume 2 x 10w
20/12=1.67 Ah/I=time 17/1.67=10.2hrs
Still need:
Wood
Resistors for piezo's
Circle jig (still going to make a diy jig for my router)
Similar to this one: How to Make a Router Circle Cutting Jig
Some alluminium L shape for edging
Some glue/cement to join the hp10w magnets back to back.
yes they would be nice, I did look at them for a full range Home theatre speaker. I think that they do detract from the original idea that it was to be a reasonable price to build and loud.
Per Pair: hp10-w's ~ $100 a pair delivered vs AN10" ~ $300 delivered
And since I have the HP10W's sitting and waiting to be connected.
Per Pair: hp10-w's ~ $100 a pair delivered vs AN10" ~ $300 delivered
And since I have the HP10W's sitting and waiting to be connected.
Based on what has been going on in the boominator thread, I'm just wondering if I should put a Resistor in series with the piezo or not.
Simple Capacitance test of the pieso 130nF
so the simple RC calculator says I should use a 300Ohm resistor to get a low pass cut off of 4083Hz
Is this correct?
Is 300Ohm too high a value?
I also have some 12mm marine ply, so all I need now is to get the right value resistors and start building.
SC.
Simple Capacitance test of the pieso 130nF
so the simple RC calculator says I should use a 300Ohm resistor to get a low pass cut off of 4083Hz
Is this correct?
Is 300Ohm too high a value?
I also have some 12mm marine ply, so all I need now is to get the right value resistors and start building.
SC.
Final question or explanation for now:
I need to allow 75mm for the battery I have (up from the 66mm in sketchup.
I've calculated:
lift the top so it sits on TOP instead of inside.
move the inside walls out 4.5mm to allow an extra 9mm for battery.
This leaves about 11mm x 296x296mm of space to fill which I can reduce the length by 11mm down from 900 to 889mm
OR add an additional outside 12x296x296 wall - stronger, but heavier Or is the internal dimensions not critical enough...
I need to allow 75mm for the battery I have (up from the 66mm in sketchup.
I've calculated:
lift the top so it sits on TOP instead of inside.
move the inside walls out 4.5mm to allow an extra 9mm for battery.
This leaves about 11mm x 296x296mm of space to fill which I can reduce the length by 11mm down from 900 to 889mm
OR add an additional outside 12x296x296 wall - stronger, but heavier Or is the internal dimensions not critical enough...
Forget the notes on cabinet size above, final adjustments to the design are as follows:
75mm internal space
12mm for ALL wood, ie no 9mm pieces
all sides will sit ON the bottom plate, instead of inside, the top will still sit inside the walls.
External ends will be 18mm to counter act the increase in height and reduction in width to make the volume exactly the same as the Sketchup boominatorII ( I have a sheet of 18mm spare)
The width of the HP10W drivers, 1mm for cement, 2mm for the grills leaves 5mm of free play.
Not getting many answers here so I'll possibly post in the boominator thread.
Q1. Putting 5mm of spacing between the magnets cause any change?
ie if I put a 5mm sheet of PVC or wood in between to make the drivers a snug fit, drilling a hole where the magnet holes are.
Q2. BoominatorII vent shows length of the port @ 21mm, would it matter if I make it 30mm?
75mm internal space
12mm for ALL wood, ie no 9mm pieces
all sides will sit ON the bottom plate, instead of inside, the top will still sit inside the walls.
External ends will be 18mm to counter act the increase in height and reduction in width to make the volume exactly the same as the Sketchup boominatorII ( I have a sheet of 18mm spare)
The width of the HP10W drivers, 1mm for cement, 2mm for the grills leaves 5mm of free play.
Not getting many answers here so I'll possibly post in the boominator thread.
Q1. Putting 5mm of spacing between the magnets cause any change?
ie if I put a 5mm sheet of PVC or wood in between to make the drivers a snug fit, drilling a hole where the magnet holes are.
Q2. BoominatorII vent shows length of the port @ 21mm, would it matter if I make it 30mm?
Finished exams, Finished work for this year, almost finished building the tree house for the kids. Time to crack on to the Boominator! yeah!
It has begun!
2 at once
The first cut is the depest
Sizing up the internals
2 Boominators cut and ready for trimming up the edges, measuring the Woofers, cutting up the internal bracing, doindg the speaker routing, and vents.
Nothing now until day after boxing day, the second boominator is for a mate who is going to come around and help with sanding, routing, and general building.
I expect their to be a beers involved at this stage... takes time, meticulous craftsmanship with getting the edges just right, which can be VERY thirsty work.
It has begun!
2 at once
The first cut is the depest
Sizing up the internals
2 Boominators cut and ready for trimming up the edges, measuring the Woofers, cutting up the internal bracing, doindg the speaker routing, and vents.
Nothing now until day after boxing day, the second boominator is for a mate who is going to come around and help with sanding, routing, and general building.
I expect their to be a beers involved at this stage... takes time, meticulous craftsmanship with getting the edges just right, which can be VERY thirsty work.
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