Although many of us are looking for the ultimate in 2 channel sound quality. There is a growing number of people looking for the same level of quality in 5.1. I have not had much luck looking for a 5.1 dac except for products like this on ebay.
MOCHA X-3B AC3 DTS 5.1 Digital Audio Decoder & USB DAC | eBay
HLLY HIGH END DTS AC3 5.1 DIGIT AUDIO DECODER DAC NEW | eBay
Is there anything better out that that I could use to replace my xonar ST + daughter board?
MOCHA X-3B AC3 DTS 5.1 Digital Audio Decoder & USB DAC | eBay
HLLY HIGH END DTS AC3 5.1 DIGIT AUDIO DECODER DAC NEW | eBay
Is there anything better out that that I could use to replace my xonar ST + daughter board?
I have a denon 3805 for another room, which is great if you are just looking for a traditional 5.1 setup. Could you tell me why you think using a receiver is a good idea? It's completely redundant in a HTPC setup. Why would I go htpc > receiver > F5 amplifiers > speakers, is there some benefit I am missing?
I have tried it the way you describe and found the quality lacking. Bluray is, for the most part, lossless on all channels.
Currently the best soundcard I have used for surround has been the Xonar ST but PCI brings it's own set of problems. I want an external solution that will be on par with a high end setup.
The fact of the matter is that HT and stereo have the same goals, it's just more expensive for HT due to the number of amplifiers and speakers. Now that I have some extra amps, I can build a system that excels in both stereo and surround. The limitations are quality sources. When you look at the large number of high end DACs that compete with much more expensive CD players, it is very easy to see that this can apply to hometheater as well. Who needs a receiver/processor and their added expense, if you have a computer and a good sound card?
Currently the best soundcard I have used for surround has been the Xonar ST but PCI brings it's own set of problems. I want an external solution that will be on par with a high end setup.
The fact of the matter is that HT and stereo have the same goals, it's just more expensive for HT due to the number of amplifiers and speakers. Now that I have some extra amps, I can build a system that excels in both stereo and surround. The limitations are quality sources. When you look at the large number of high end DACs that compete with much more expensive CD players, it is very easy to see that this can apply to hometheater as well. Who needs a receiver/processor and their added expense, if you have a computer and a good sound card?
That decoder doesn't decode any HD audio formats. Actually, you need a HDMI - audio decoding receiver for that, because the encryption.
As for bluray - there is just hype about it. Movies don't have high-quality tracks (don't need more than old DTS), albums on bluray are few.
SACD/DVD-A has identical quality and are more to be found. AVR3805 can be used with a DVD2930/3930 and DenonLinkIII (shielded CAT5E cable) to send the SACD/DVD-A multichannel digital signals straight to receiver.
Do you ever want to use a source other than PC? That is where I find the receiver most useful.
My audio setup is in the loungeroom and I can't avoid the fact that I need more than one source connected into my system, this is the big reason I use a receiver. I have the Denon AVR3808 and use a pre-out into power amps for front L/R.
The power supply stage in a receiver is typically the limiting factor for its amplifier stage. So reducing the load by having power amps for L/R speakers can improve your headroom for supplying centre and rear speakers.
If you want diy/high end multichannel DAC then you'd be looking for
multichannel usb to i2s -> multichannel es9018 dac (buffalo/acko etc) -> multichannel IV -> amps
To implement that you're an order of magnitude (likely far more) above the cost of those ebay units.
My audio setup is in the loungeroom and I can't avoid the fact that I need more than one source connected into my system, this is the big reason I use a receiver. I have the Denon AVR3808 and use a pre-out into power amps for front L/R.
The power supply stage in a receiver is typically the limiting factor for its amplifier stage. So reducing the load by having power amps for L/R speakers can improve your headroom for supplying centre and rear speakers.
If you want diy/high end multichannel DAC then you'd be looking for
multichannel usb to i2s -> multichannel es9018 dac (buffalo/acko etc) -> multichannel IV -> amps
To implement that you're an order of magnitude (likely far more) above the cost of those ebay units.
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Joined 2009
To the best of my knowledge SPDIF, USB 1.1 and early versions of HDMI don't have enough bandwidth to carry multichannel audio formats at full resolution. You will need a very expensive USB 2.0 or HDMI decoder. A sound card solution is much cheaper.
EDIT:
HDMI version comparison
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On this setup I would only want to use PC. If I really wanted another source I could always use the mic input for a stereo input. The fact is that I can play my music, watch movies, stream video and play games on the PC. I could even use it for cable TV if I wanted to. What else would I ever really want to switch to for the home theater?
I will pass on the HDMI decoder, to expensive and complicated.
Here are some cheap devices that would do the job but are not even close to "audiophile" level. I am sure that there must be others who would use a 24/192k 5.1 external sound card.
Amazon.com: Zalman ZM-RSSC External USB 5.1 Sound Card: Electronics
Newegg.com - Creative External Sound Blaster Live! SB0490 5.1 Channels 24-bit 48kHz in 5.1 mode and up to 96kHz in stereo mode USB Interface Sound Card
Newegg.com - SIIG IC-710112-S1 7.1 Channels USB Digital External Surround Sound Device
Newegg.com - Creative 70SB109500000 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz USB Interface X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro
Considering this guy can do 24/192k for 6 channels, I am sure this could be done.
UA-101 :: Products :: Roland
I will pass on the HDMI decoder, to expensive and complicated.
Here are some cheap devices that would do the job but are not even close to "audiophile" level. I am sure that there must be others who would use a 24/192k 5.1 external sound card.
Amazon.com: Zalman ZM-RSSC External USB 5.1 Sound Card: Electronics
Newegg.com - Creative External Sound Blaster Live! SB0490 5.1 Channels 24-bit 48kHz in 5.1 mode and up to 96kHz in stereo mode USB Interface Sound Card
Newegg.com - SIIG IC-710112-S1 7.1 Channels USB Digital External Surround Sound Device
Newegg.com - Creative 70SB109500000 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz USB Interface X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro
Considering this guy can do 24/192k for 6 channels, I am sure this could be done.
UA-101 :: Products :: Roland
None of those do "high end 5.1" like you said in title. DolbyDigital and DTS are lossy formats, good enough for movies (as I already said 55dB SNR is not high end). And those are the only ones you can use over SPDIF or USB1.1 - maily because of bandwidth limits.
As for the uncompressed multichannel PCM... you don't have a source for that (unless you record it yourself). All the hi-res multich sources are "packed" in some kind of container.
As for the uncompressed multichannel PCM... you don't have a source for that (unless you record it yourself). All the hi-res multich sources are "packed" in some kind of container.
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Exactly, what I want is something that does. Considering the ua-101 can do 24/192 output on 6 channels simultaneously, this should be doable.
Blu-ray.com - Blu-ray FAQ
As you can see in this link, there are multiple lossless surround sound formats used for movies. Yes Dolby digital and dts are lossy, so what? This isn't 2006, who is still concerned about DVD level audio? On top of that, since when did the source/Dac/output stop mattering just because we are talking about movies? Mp3 is a lossy format but it still sounds much better on my saphire 2i2 then on my motherboard's stock outputs.
Bluray will not output Hi-Res sound over nothing else but HDMI. Copycrap issues...
Same with SACD or DVD-A, except here you have the DenonLinkIII alternative to your receiver.
DTS/DD will be just fine trough your receiver, it won't need nothing else "high end" - because their SNR is limited at 55dB.
Same with SACD or DVD-A, except here you have the DenonLinkIII alternative to your receiver.
DTS/DD will be just fine trough your receiver, it won't need nothing else "high end" - because their SNR is limited at 55dB.
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Here are some ways you can rip the audio from blu ray to your HTPC.
Computer Audiophile - Guide To Ripping DVD and Blu-ray Audio Using The Dark Side Of The Moon Immersion Box Set
The new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD/DVD Ripping Guide for Media Streamers | AVForums.com - UK Online
Backup/copy Blu-ray movie with lossless audio
etc...
There are also ways to rip the audio, compress to flac and then join with a movie if you really wanted to.
The fact is that the receiver is going to become more niche as HTPCs grow. They currently only do 2 things that you can't do easily with a PC. Multiple inputs and video switching. If you are using an HTPC as your source, which can be done for everything but game consoles, then all you are really using your receiver for is to amplify your system. Yes, you can use it for digital audio decoding but you can do that in a HTPC as well. If someone were to develop a soundcard for HTPC that had as little as 2 hdmi inputs and had a high end 5.1-7.1 output, the receiver would be on it's way out. Unfortunately, I am not at the skill level to make such a thing, I am just able to see the demand for one.
Computer Audiophile - Guide To Ripping DVD and Blu-ray Audio Using The Dark Side Of The Moon Immersion Box Set
The new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD/DVD Ripping Guide for Media Streamers | AVForums.com - UK Online
Backup/copy Blu-ray movie with lossless audio
etc...
There are also ways to rip the audio, compress to flac and then join with a movie if you really wanted to.
The fact is that the receiver is going to become more niche as HTPCs grow. They currently only do 2 things that you can't do easily with a PC. Multiple inputs and video switching. If you are using an HTPC as your source, which can be done for everything but game consoles, then all you are really using your receiver for is to amplify your system. Yes, you can use it for digital audio decoding but you can do that in a HTPC as well. If someone were to develop a soundcard for HTPC that had as little as 2 hdmi inputs and had a high end 5.1-7.1 output, the receiver would be on it's way out. Unfortunately, I am not at the skill level to make such a thing, I am just able to see the demand for one.
I think you have it backwards. HTPCs are and were niche, and will be replaced by other boxes, "smart" TV's, gaming consoles, etc. Very few people have the technical knowledge and patience to deal with an HTPC and those are probably going to be the only users going forward (still).
The best way to do this is probably buy a middle of the road Japanese receiver and tap the I2S at the pins of the DACs and do whatever you want with it.
Or, find a sound card with 8ch analog outputs and do the same thing.
The best way to do this is probably buy a middle of the road Japanese receiver and tap the I2S at the pins of the DACs and do whatever you want with it.
Or, find a sound card with 8ch analog outputs and do the same thing.
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Quite - I already have a 'smart' TV where the Android system is built within - a 46-inch tablet if you will (although without multi-touch). These are a much more cost-effective solution than an HTPC plus a panel or projector. It only needs Google to get Android USB audio support sorted out now...
In the meantime I'm just in the midst of thinking how to mod a very cheap ($16) surround-sound decoder board to have half-decent DACs (i.e. not S-D)
In the meantime I'm just in the midst of thinking how to mod a very cheap ($16) surround-sound decoder board to have half-decent DACs (i.e. not S-D)
I've been using a HTPC for 5+ years. I understand what you're suggesting but its a usability nightmare. Switching the inputs through the PC, sounds good in theory but how does the software layer control it? It's not as simple as back in the day taking a composite video signal input thats for sure! You'll be stuck with proprietary software to control input switching and even then I'm not sure they'll be able to pipe an encoded hdmi stream through a pc, decode it and play it back. I think copy protection and hardware for that will be a nightmare.
You really have to go to a lot of effort to DIY something that will perform better than the receivers mentioned already.
Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say:
Because high end is more than just a dac that is able to decode '24/192' in my book, the dac needs to be well implemented. Dealing with 6 to 8 ch of well implemented dac and interfacing it to a PC isn't simple. It may be possible to buy cheap DAC's that will do multichannel OK, I doubt they'll be better than the receivers though. Realistically the most practical solution for the problem you seem to be trying to solve is to have a reasonable receiver and use power amps on the channels that are most important to you. The power supply in the receiver limits the amplifiers performance in 99% of cases. So by removing 2 or 3ch of amplifiers from the load you can have significantly better results. So I'd be building 3ch of those F5 amplifiers and using the preamplified output of the 3805 for L/C/R outputs and sit back and enjoy.
You could make something yourself if a USB interface is enough.
- EXA USB interface, 6 Channel A-synchronous I2S
- 6 Channel Twistedpear ESS Dac, incl volume remote
With the advanced drivers of the EXA you could do delay and level settings to get the 5.1 right. Even VST plugins are possible to do advanced eq'ing.
the only downside is that USB is the only input source.
- EXA USB interface, 6 Channel A-synchronous I2S
- 6 Channel Twistedpear ESS Dac, incl volume remote
With the advanced drivers of the EXA you could do delay and level settings to get the 5.1 right. Even VST plugins are possible to do advanced eq'ing.
the only downside is that USB is the only input source.
I understand why switching hasn't happened yet, copy protection is winning on that front and locking us out of our own hardware. Just immagine when manufactures stop putting SPDIF on products and you are forced to use HDMI. That doesn't mean I can't still want someone to build a product that fits my needs.
When I say high end 5.1-7.1 output, I mean something that is on par with the DIY stereo USB DACs that have been replacing CD players over the past few years. Quality clock, output design, dac, caps etc. is what I would look for. Even if it was on par with some of the gigaworks dacs and needed some mods, I would be happy.
Now that the raspberry PI is out, you could make a high end stereo/surround system for a song. Hell if the RPI had PCI I would just buy another xonar ST + daughter board and call it a day.
The 3805 is good but it is not on par with the xonar ST or even the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 I have come to love for stereo + speaker testing.
If you only play content on the PC, which isn't unreasonable, then just invest in a PCI sound card that has good DACs (or can be modified). Or one with multichannel S/PDIF outputs, which can then drive separate DACs. There were or are some computer speaker systems that accepted 3 S/PDIF streams, and some Creative cards brought those signals out to the back panel via 3.5mm sockets or a mini-DIN connector.
M-Audio cards cost more, but one that I looked at included unambiguous bass management settings in the driver.
M-Audio cards cost more, but one that I looked at included unambiguous bass management settings in the driver.
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