High guys I'll make it simple I'm starting to be very interested with fiddling with audio but I have more of a technical interest.Basically what I mean is I try to reuse a lot of stuff I find laying around and make it useful.
I have a regular cab toyota truck and there is not much room to fit anything so right now what I have as a setup is a Rockford Fosgate amp hooked to two bridged 6.5 inch woofers each in a separate enclosure.
The woofers are basically "computer" subwoofers that I wired directly through the vent port to drive it with my Rockford amp. One of them is pulled from a Logitech X230 2.1 kit and the other one is an Altec Lansing woofer that I inserted into a home made enclosure to fit the space behind the seats.
The bass output of these two paired is very surprising seeing the small cab space, but the Altec one even though most of the time has a nice sound has a lot of trouble doing lower frequency it will literally distort the sound ruining some of the music I listen to. The logitech one has no trouble it just lacks on higher volume which isn't surprising seeing it's size.
My question to you guys is, if I just order a higher rated more "heavy duty" 6.5 inch and replace it will I be able to solve this issue or am I better off trying to fit a bigger size woofer?
I have a regular cab toyota truck and there is not much room to fit anything so right now what I have as a setup is a Rockford Fosgate amp hooked to two bridged 6.5 inch woofers each in a separate enclosure.
The woofers are basically "computer" subwoofers that I wired directly through the vent port to drive it with my Rockford amp. One of them is pulled from a Logitech X230 2.1 kit and the other one is an Altec Lansing woofer that I inserted into a home made enclosure to fit the space behind the seats.
The bass output of these two paired is very surprising seeing the small cab space, but the Altec one even though most of the time has a nice sound has a lot of trouble doing lower frequency it will literally distort the sound ruining some of the music I listen to. The logitech one has no trouble it just lacks on higher volume which isn't surprising seeing it's size.
My question to you guys is, if I just order a higher rated more "heavy duty" 6.5 inch and replace it will I be able to solve this issue or am I better off trying to fit a bigger size woofer?
Just replacing the Altec woofer with a "heavy duty' one won't solve anything. You say you built an enclosure "to fit" the space behind your truck....Frankly it's not quite that simple. Woofers need to be in a correct sized enclosure....not doing so can bring about all sorts of "problems" which probably account for your bad sound. Woofers can be sorted between two types, ported or sealed enclosures. If you can read any model numbers off the Altec you've got in your box.....we here can likely find out a group of specifications for that particular driver.... & tell you what size & type of enclosure it should be in.
The reason the other woofer sounds OK is that someone already did the math to put it in an appropriate enclosure.
______________________________________________________Rick...........
The reason the other woofer sounds OK is that someone already did the math to put it in an appropriate enclosure.
______________________________________________________Rick...........
IMO, I would go for the RFFG P2 8" in a sealed box - you won't believe your ears! You can go to their website and look at recommended enclosures.
I did try a few of the 8" woofers in this price range, the RFFG was noticeably better.
These are new the older ones sold 2 for $79.
Rockford Fosgate P2D2-8 (P2D28) 8" Punch P2 2-Ohm DVC Subwoofer/Sub Woofer | eBay
I did try a few of the 8" woofers in this price range, the RFFG was noticeably better.
These are new the older ones sold 2 for $79.
Rockford Fosgate P2D2-8 (P2D28) 8" Punch P2 2-Ohm DVC Subwoofer/Sub Woofer | eBay
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Thanks Rick for that reply,
To simplify things I said I had an enclosure that fitted, basically it was another enclosure from another PC Woofer that I fit in the Altec Woofer which was the same size since it was a cheap chinese enclosure and driver.
I added some isolating material until I had an overall pleasing sound.
The distortion I get at low frequencies is not due to the enclosure, because when I have the driver play the same frequency OUTSIDE the box the noise comes from the driver being driven over its capacity at that frequency.
So that was why I'm wondering if I go to a stronger driver that can deal more power if I could partially or completely solve my noise problem, since the enclosure seems to give good performance at lower volumes.
Thanks for the suggestions about the 8 inch sub, but keep in mind I have a maximum of about 9 inches depth, 10 wide and maybe 8 or 9 in height behind the seat. So would a bigger driver suffer from a smaller enclosure?
To simplify things I said I had an enclosure that fitted, basically it was another enclosure from another PC Woofer that I fit in the Altec Woofer which was the same size since it was a cheap chinese enclosure and driver.
I added some isolating material until I had an overall pleasing sound.
The distortion I get at low frequencies is not due to the enclosure, because when I have the driver play the same frequency OUTSIDE the box the noise comes from the driver being driven over its capacity at that frequency.
So that was why I'm wondering if I go to a stronger driver that can deal more power if I could partially or completely solve my noise problem, since the enclosure seems to give good performance at lower volumes.
Thanks for the suggestions about the 8 inch sub, but keep in mind I have a maximum of about 9 inches depth, 10 wide and maybe 8 or 9 in height behind the seat. So would a bigger driver suffer from a smaller enclosure?
Playing music at somewhat high volume levels when you have a driver removed from an enclosure can often times damage a driver....differing types of drivers rely on the sealed air inside an enclosure to control the cone movements, hence the name "acoustic suspension"......using the air to limit the excursion distances (Front to back cone movement) and to dampen out resonances of the cone. A driver cone will have a resonance...similar to a tuning fork....a particular frequency that it will want to 'ring' at....with very little effort to get it 'started", once set it motion, just like a tuning fork...it will be difficult to stop, even when you remove the signal going to it. So we put it in a sealed box to dampen out this "self ringing" effect. Driver cones have a deceptively short distances they are suppose to work within, front to back travel..It's called Xmax...for an eight incher it is some where around 2.5mm forward to 2.5 mm rearward. Drivers can smack into physical limits sound like a rattling sound. Of the two types of enclosures there are roughly two other types of drivers, Home types and Auto types. Home types are low Xmax values, typically, and Auto types with lots of cone travel(Xmax) and are engineered for small box volumes....well within your size limitations. Auto types are generally agreed to not sound as "accurate" as home types. Unfortunately auto types tend to be rather inefficient (Suck up alot of Watts) for the same sound volumes. Hope this helps...
____________________________________________________Rick.........
____________________________________________________Rick.........
Did you go to the RFFG site? It's a one stop shop:
The P2 works in a .2 - .3 box, .23 is recommended.
9"-10"-9" = .28 using 3/4" wood, so there is room.
If I were you, Id be cutting some cardboard and taping up a mock up, to see what I can fit in there.
Again the P2 in a small cab...well it could ruin your ears!
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/library/2011/5_Subwoofers/4020118-0_P2Subs-MAN_Rev2.pdf
The P2 works in a .2 - .3 box, .23 is recommended.
9"-10"-9" = .28 using 3/4" wood, so there is room.
If I were you, Id be cutting some cardboard and taping up a mock up, to see what I can fit in there.
Again the P2 in a small cab...well it could ruin your ears!
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/library/2011/5_Subwoofers/4020118-0_P2Subs-MAN_Rev2.pdf
Thanks guys for the help!
I see what you are saying Rick, basically could we set as a hypothesis that my current enclosure allows too much x-travel? Could I add more isolating material to the enclosure to restrict movement sacrificing a little resonance?
As for the RFFG it looks very interesting, though my question is that I Realise there are 2 and 4 ohm versions and it looks like its a dual voice coil... what do you base your choice on when choosing such parameters?
Also, If I pair my current logitech sub which does surprisingly well with the RFFG is that of any use? Or am I just setting a handicap on my RFFG since the logitech just probably wouldn't follow up?
Thanks a lot guys!
Also just a note, I have a second logitech exact same model, I used to think that having two different types of enclosurse AND OR woofers would cover a bigger frequency spectrum giving an over-all good bass but what If I just paired two identical logitech subs together, would I expect better results ?
I see what you are saying Rick, basically could we set as a hypothesis that my current enclosure allows too much x-travel? Could I add more isolating material to the enclosure to restrict movement sacrificing a little resonance?
As for the RFFG it looks very interesting, though my question is that I Realise there are 2 and 4 ohm versions and it looks like its a dual voice coil... what do you base your choice on when choosing such parameters?
Also, If I pair my current logitech sub which does surprisingly well with the RFFG is that of any use? Or am I just setting a handicap on my RFFG since the logitech just probably wouldn't follow up?
Thanks a lot guys!
Also just a note, I have a second logitech exact same model, I used to think that having two different types of enclosurse AND OR woofers would cover a bigger frequency spectrum giving an over-all good bass but what If I just paired two identical logitech subs together, would I expect better results ?
Hi, No it it doesn't work like that and yes. The logitech would handicap the P2. rgds, sreten.
Ya well see if I had no setup at all that 8 inch sub would be my first bet,
but seeing as I am 95% satisfied with my current setup and am just looking to find the little thing that would make it perfect I'm trying to fiddle with what I already have.
As you said about mirror shaking, since my current woofers are mounted right behind each seat, you can feel the bass in your seat AND it shakes the mirrors and windows at a decent volume without distortion.
The only real problem is that I can play 3/4 of a song with very satisfying bass but theres like ONE PART Of the song where there's a frequency drop and then all of a sudden everything that sounded perfect goes down in mad distortion for a second and then resumes.
I have the perfect example : Chris Brown - No ******** - YouTube
The bass that comes at 0:30-0:32 and 1:03-1:05 and many other times in this song just DISTORTS on the Altec like crazy but the rest will be fine. Meanwhile the logitech plays it very faintly. So it's like the Altec picks up on it, but can't play it right.
See when I said I was trying to learn more of the technical part of it I agree I can change the whole setup and I would be amazed, but I wanna nail down some stuff before I go ahead and do that.
And whenever I do decide to do it I have a friend who works wood as a living and is very well equipped in the matter, he also has a lot of scrap wood that we could use to build an enclosure, so some of you proposed I go about and measure the room I have for the biggest enclosure possible, my question(s) to that is/are : In my situation will the driver suffer from a lot of noticeable sound quality if the size that fits is smaller than the recommended VAS. And also, would it be overkill to go ahead and build TWO to have a dual 8 inch setup ?
Thanks guys
but seeing as I am 95% satisfied with my current setup and am just looking to find the little thing that would make it perfect I'm trying to fiddle with what I already have.
As you said about mirror shaking, since my current woofers are mounted right behind each seat, you can feel the bass in your seat AND it shakes the mirrors and windows at a decent volume without distortion.
The only real problem is that I can play 3/4 of a song with very satisfying bass but theres like ONE PART Of the song where there's a frequency drop and then all of a sudden everything that sounded perfect goes down in mad distortion for a second and then resumes.
I have the perfect example : Chris Brown - No ******** - YouTube
The bass that comes at 0:30-0:32 and 1:03-1:05 and many other times in this song just DISTORTS on the Altec like crazy but the rest will be fine. Meanwhile the logitech plays it very faintly. So it's like the Altec picks up on it, but can't play it right.
See when I said I was trying to learn more of the technical part of it I agree I can change the whole setup and I would be amazed, but I wanna nail down some stuff before I go ahead and do that.
And whenever I do decide to do it I have a friend who works wood as a living and is very well equipped in the matter, he also has a lot of scrap wood that we could use to build an enclosure, so some of you proposed I go about and measure the room I have for the biggest enclosure possible, my question(s) to that is/are : In my situation will the driver suffer from a lot of noticeable sound quality if the size that fits is smaller than the recommended VAS. And also, would it be overkill to go ahead and build TWO to have a dual 8 inch setup ?
Thanks guys
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Does anyone think maybe if I pulled it from my truck and plugged it on my computer through my woofer amp, and have it bench with my TONE GENERATOR I could find the frequencies at which it fails..
And then I could just calculate the capacitance I would need to eliminate the frequencies below a certain level to keep it clean on sound while doing a good job on the rest.
I have a question on doing this, when you calculate the 'Crossover frequency' correct me if I'm wrong but this means that you calculate the frequency at which the signal 'BEGINS' to enter so for instance if I choose 60Hz, everything below that is attenuated correct?
Even though this may not make sense for some audiophiles, since the sub basically plays at a respectable volume, has me satisfied most of the time I'd be as happy to just cut off whatever has it distort and enjoy the rest of the frequency band without me worrying about losing a couple Hertz on it.
Thanks!
Mat
And then I could just calculate the capacitance I would need to eliminate the frequencies below a certain level to keep it clean on sound while doing a good job on the rest.
I have a question on doing this, when you calculate the 'Crossover frequency' correct me if I'm wrong but this means that you calculate the frequency at which the signal 'BEGINS' to enter so for instance if I choose 60Hz, everything below that is attenuated correct?
Even though this may not make sense for some audiophiles, since the sub basically plays at a respectable volume, has me satisfied most of the time I'd be as happy to just cut off whatever has it distort and enjoy the rest of the frequency band without me worrying about losing a couple Hertz on it.
Thanks!
Mat
I downloaded some tracks yesterday with bass tests and it does really really well, even on some CHILL LOUNGE type music with lots of high definition bass and it also does very well it only distorts with the volume is relatively high and it hits those LOW rumbling frequencies, so since I have two woofers, and only one acts up I was thinking maybe I could filter those frequencies from it. Because if it was a POS all the time I'd just rip it out and change it but its quite surprising the rest of the time.
Chevy Owners
Here's an case in point: I had a 2000 Chevy xcab Silverado, factory Cd/Radio, the one that looks nice but not much power. I made up a cardboard box to fit under the R-seat, from there made a MDF box, [btw, had a 3" x long port, but I got it tuned] and a RFFG 8" P3.
Since it was a factory radio, I never went near it, picked up a speaker lead from the back (only 1 side I think). May have used a punch 45; what the heck did 45 mean?
Oh boy, that think rocked, I still remember the windows and mirrors shaking, and loud, It just kept going.........
I had friends that took Suburbans to car shops, and had everything done; and they still sounded the same :-/
I had a blast with the RFFG combination.
Here's an case in point: I had a 2000 Chevy xcab Silverado, factory Cd/Radio, the one that looks nice but not much power. I made up a cardboard box to fit under the R-seat, from there made a MDF box, [btw, had a 3" x long port, but I got it tuned] and a RFFG 8" P3.
Since it was a factory radio, I never went near it, picked up a speaker lead from the back (only 1 side I think). May have used a punch 45; what the heck did 45 mean?
Oh boy, that think rocked, I still remember the windows and mirrors shaking, and loud, It just kept going.........
I had friends that took Suburbans to car shops, and had everything done; and they still sounded the same :-/
I had a blast with the RFFG combination.
Was just looking through ebay to keep my 6.5 inch and get something not too pricy..
Came across this, but have a hard time believing it can do so well what do you guys think :
6-1/2" Subwoofer 6.5" Sub Woofer 80W RMS / 160W Max 4 ohms BIG BASS small space! | eBay
Seems like it would improve what I'm looking to find if it does what it says.
Came across this, but have a hard time believing it can do so well what do you guys think :
6-1/2" Subwoofer 6.5" Sub Woofer 80W RMS / 160W Max 4 ohms BIG BASS small space! | eBay
Seems like it would improve what I'm looking to find if it does what it says.
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