Alpair selection...

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To all who frequent this section of the diyaudio forums and most certainly Mark... I recently finished building an Elekit TU-879S Stereo Tube Amplifier Kit. (Kits - HiFi Tube Amp) It's output is appx 8.5 watts @ 8ohms and can drive speakers 4-16 ohms. I am intrigued by the Mark Audio line of drivers (they are just beautiful) and had decided on the Alpair 10.2 installed in the Greg Monfort ML-TL cabinet (see attached) when it occurred to me that here is a group of people that know so much more than I do that I should seek your thoughts on this selection.

I listen to every music genre. My listening spaces will vary but generally the space will be from a 12' x 12' (3.6 meters x 3.6 meters) room up to a 15' x 20' (4.57 x 6 meters) room. I do like some volume when serious listening but not window rattling. I do like clear sound with defined bass but not thumpy. If that is helpful.

As I have not purchased anything for the speakers other than 3/4" (19mm) baltic birch plywood I am open to suggestions.

Thanks loads all, I am looking forward to your thoughts.

Scott R
 

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Hi Scott R,
Apologies for my late reply, the Elekit looks very nice. Its also worth taking a look at the Alpair 7 in Pencil if your room size remains 12 X 12 for most of the time.

All said, the Alp10.2 is sweet on Tube amps. Consider the Pencil 10.2 if you have the room. I'll see if the other guys can add their comments.

Thanks

Mark.
 
Hi Mark and Dave, Thank you both for your posts. I am most impressed with the kindness of members here and that manufacturers (Mark) take the time to talk with customers who ultimately don't really buy large quantities of product.

If I were to add some depth to Greg's ML-TL cabinet I could shorten it a bit while keeping the same interior volume, which appeals to me. As an example his design, is 6.5" wide x 4" deep interior dimensions giving a volume 1482 cubic inches . If I changed those to 6.5" x 6.5" but shortened the height to appx. 35.25" it would give a volume of 1489.3 cubic inches which is pretty close. How or would it affect the overall design, such as the vent, and how does one figure out speaker height? The ratio of speaker height to to overall height is 3.35, which if the dimentions are modified to 6.5 x 6.5 x 35.25 would put the speaker center at 10.5 inches from the top rather than the 17" in Greg's design.

The pensil designs are nice, simple, and no doubt great sounding, until I see the depth required on the pensil 10.2 cabinet and know that the size just wouldn't pass the spouse test.

If this is asking too much just let me know. I don't know enough to know how much effort goes into figuring this sort of thing out. Ultimately I am trying to have a less obtrusive speaker that still performs well throughout the frequency spectrum. Then again perhaps I should stick with Greg's original rather than reinventing the wheel.

Looking forward to hearing both your, and others, thoughts. Again my thanks.
 
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If you changed the HxWxD dimensions of GM's cabinet without knowing exactly what you were doing, you will compromise the performance. Length in an MLTL is functional to box tuning, so at the very least, the vent dimensions would need to be recalculated. The driver position along the line is also critical to its proper functioning.
 
Thanks for your input Scott, I figured my simplistic approach wouldn't pass muster. But it never hurts to ask. So I guess I either go Pensil or Greg's ML-TL cabinet.

Are you guys aware of any cabinets plans for the Alpair 10.2 other than the two we have been discussing I should consider before I start pushing wood through the saw? I am open to suggestions.

Also thank all three of you for your input and time to post. I am grateful.

Scott R
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Are you guys aware of any cabinets plans for the Alpair 10.2 other than the two we have been discussing I should consider before I start pushing wood through the saw? I am open to suggestions.

A number of free BR. If you are willing to pay, the best boxes (IMHO, and i have to be considered biased) are from Scott or myself. Samhain, Silbury, Mar-Ken10.2 (email me). Some of these still have some beta work needed.

Scott's may exceed WAF size limits, mine need stands.

dave
 
Following on, I've got the fullrange bug! Perhaps Dave, Mark, Scott or anyone else with broad MA experience can help me with my next project choice. Which Alpair/box?

I have some Alpair 6P's for nearfield listening in the office and they are great, exceeded expectation, but I find them a little unrefined in the HF in ultimate terms. I'd like to build something for my main system. My room is 30' x 18' x 9.5' and my primary system is CDPro-I2S-AyaDAC-passivepre-EL34PP strapped triode. Lynn's Ariels have been my main speaker until now, but the P13's surrounds have gone and with no replacement in sight I'm looking for something to replace them.

I don't listen loud but enjoy ALL sorts of music. Ideally I want a speaker to everything, but my priorities in rough order are

1.treble purity
2.neutral tonal balance
3.soundstage width and depth
4.micro dynamics (downward dynamic range)
5.bass extension
6.macro dynamics (upward dynamic range)

I have a feeling A7's wont have enough to command the room, and A10.2's may give away too much in treble purity, A12's? no idea really. So I'm relying on your good selves to advise. Thanks in advance,

Simon
 
I don't listen loud but enjoy ALL sorts of music. Ideally I want a speaker to everything, but my priorities in rough order are

1.treble purity
2.neutral tonal balance
3.soundstage width and depth
4.micro dynamics (downward dynamic range)
5.bass extension
6.macro dynamics (upward dynamic range)

I have a feeling A7's wont have enough to command the room, and A10.2's may give away too much in treble purity, A12's? no idea really. So I'm relying on your good selves to advise. Thanks in advance,
Simon
I'd go with the 10.2, it'll give you a greater Band Width i.e. bass extension - treble then the A7 which will image better but i suspect the 10.2 will do nicely too.
If you're considering the A12, whats left of the current run is on sale at Madisound and Solen (prob others), however Mark is working on a new version which will most likely incorporate some of the advancements that went into making the A10.2 such a nice driver and perhaps then some.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
I now have the A7, A10.2, and A12 all in proper miniOnken/Mar-Kens. The recent arrival of the full-on Mark-Ken12 has me re-evaluating the A12 after forming an initial opinion based on listening to the Classic GR.

I'll throw in my 2-bits worth when i get a good chance to sit down and listen to all 3 in the same session.

dave
 
I'm slightly confused. Are you saying the A10.2 has better treble than the A7?
No, that the larger driver A10.2 will have more lower end so a greater band width, bass to treble than the A7.
I haven't heard any of them and don't know which has better treble extension. If it where me i'd get the A10.2 however as it is i'm running a 3.5watt 2A3 amp so doing my best to hold out for the next gen A12.2 when they become available.
 
...but will they drive a 30' x 18' x 9.5' room without straining at a reasonable level?

I'd probably take the 10.2s - It's a safer bet.

Then I'd pester the Frugel-Horn designers to get to be a beta tester for the thus-far hinted-at larger-driver FHMk3 :)

Or A7's and a subwoofer ... Supposedly the mids and highs are a bit better in the smaller drivers ... Are you interested in a FAST system? An MJK-style OB perhaps with a big woofer?
 
10.2s on paper do look good for a one driver solution, which would be prefered. Fast is good in principle too, so I would look at that IF the A7's hf was better resolved than the 10.2. I do intend to play around with a PLLXO with my A6p's at some point.

It's the character of the HF that concerns me more than anything, Mark had pointed out that this is not the A6p's strength so I was cool with that for my desktop. I do want a little more HF refinement for my main system. I haven't heard any metal MA drivers at all, so I wondered how they compare.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
I now have the A7, A10.2, and A12 all in proper miniOnken/Mar-Kens.

Cool, look foward to it, thanks Dave

Bernie came down from Nanaimo today and Chris came out for an Alpair tasting.

Alpair12eN in Bernie's solid Douglas Fir Mar-Ken12 (note: Doug Fir is a pine tree. The actual material had been aging on Bernie's floor for 70 years)
Alpair10.2eN in Baltic Birch ply (cherry veneer) Mar-Ken10.2.
Alpair7eN in stranded bamboo plywood dMar-Ken7

Drivers all with the same level of treatment & matching, boxes all derivatives of the same basic design, but each executed quite differently (keep that in mind, i'm sure that it contributes to the findings). Note that the Mar-Ken12 is the 1st of the trapezoid miniOnken, the other 2 are "standard". Nothing but my "hi-tech" speaker cables between amp & speakers. Bud P's pigtails permantly attached to these cables.

We used Bernie's lovely SE 2A3 and my Myryad CD-Player (from the upper range). In my room, which provides excellent hifi support, but is largish.

Pictures of the 1st & 3rd can be seen here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/188257-minionken-fonken-picture-gallery.html When i take pictures of the Mar-Ken10.2 they will post in that same thread.

A12 up 1st. Excellent sound and balance. Satisfying bass. I could live with these with no quams.
A10.2 next up. More difference here than i expected. I can't say that it was better or worse, just different. I could live with these with no quams.
A7 taking up the final position. For all 3 of this, this one cleaned up (probably not as much difference with the others as some may think that impies). Greater 3D soundstage, more DDR, more resolution, dynamics that didn't dissapoint. Not as deep or as impactful in the bass, but still very satisfying. If i had to, or got to pick, i'd choose these to live with. Fortunately i don't have to pick.

Music selection was more limited than in most sessions as my iMac is currently down a power supply, so we only had CDs that haven't been put in storage (and a selection Bernie brought)

Next i want to do a compare of the Mar-Ken10.2 to our BB build of the Mar-Ken12 so that the differences in the box construction are taken out of the equation and i can get a better handle on the differences there.

And, having just gotten back a pair of self-powered SDX7, to try dMar-Ken7 with bass support. (this worked well with CHR-Ken and now we have sorted a ground loop issue)

dave
 
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