My new project: Duevel Omni design

[avico78]

Hi all,

I heard the Duevel Bella Luna and really like the omni sound.
From the bella luna i found the bigger brother Sirius... wow what a look ....

So i really want to clone them , and starting with the cones diffusers
I got to some profffesinal turner that promise with the right dimensions and choosing the right metrial he can done easily (i saw his work- amazing).

I'd like to share with you my plans hopefully to get your very welcome advices:

Close issue with the dimensions -
The problem I can't actually meajure the speaker it self so by Duevel website the dimensions are here.

By scale of the Woofer (315 mm) the lower diffuser size:
~340mm +- 10mm.

Issues about the diffusers:
The cone shape for the lower diffuser looks rounded by the Cone's raduis (see the distance between the lower diffuser and the woofer), but not sure.

The middle diffuser and the upper are actually the same ,but the cone looks more exponential then rounded by the lower diffuser .

Nice animation for how the speaker looks from the inside.
is can some help with it?The turner ask a prices draw and he is not sure what is right wood....
I think this is very critical point which is one of the biggest challenges in this project.


My second problem i'd like to advice you is choosing the right drivers .
Following Duevel the woofer is 12" and the tweeter is 5.1"
See Data.

Crossover :
Any recommandation?As understand the lower Frq to cut the tweeter would be the best but for not sure.


It is important for me to keep the speakers efficient for tube amps(maybe even SET).


Would thanks you all for your commnet and help!
Promise to document the process and update you with pictures.

 

[avico78]

Is any one can assit?I'd like to order the drivers and the electronic for crossover ... Thanks

 

[tinitus]

looks exact like these 18sound

woofer 12NLW9300 - LF Neodymium Driver

tweeter ND2080 - HF Neodymium Driver

I also had thoughts about building a similar thing, but got other things on my mind
besides, my lathe still needs mains power

personally I would try other drivers
no bigger than 1.4" tweeter
maybe a 10" midwoofer
and subs

a bigger round tube would be better than such squared box
and woofer really should be mounted in something with nice round curves, to match diffuser, giving less diffraction

 

[WrineX]

hmm i like the planets idea, i wonder what the material is of the balls.

 

[d to the g]

hmm i like the planets idea, i wonder what the material is of the balls.

It's given in the 6moons review. Hollow steel IIRC.

 

[boris81]

i think curving the base also can improve the vertical dispersion.

 

[WrineX]

gone look if i can find this kind of balls, would be fun to use with an fullrange speaker maybe. easy and quick maybe use seperate sub , because for low freq its already omni
another nice thing is simple crossover, if you use a biggre fullranger(wich can still give high up to 18 or 20 K) you dont have the disadvantage of a sweet spot for the high frequencys. seen a person introducing this idea for a ESL as well no more sweet spot, only find a way to collect the out of fase material

 

[avico78]

Progress

First- Thanks people....I find your answer very usefull and very helping me !


Tinitus

For your suggestion to make the Box round and not square .
Your idea is very intreseting , would appricate your answer:

1.What are the advantage for round shape in such design?
2.As underdstand the Sirius box is about 340*340*1000 mm (square), What round box should be taken instead?
3.For the box matrial - MDF 15 mm or Poplar bridge 15 mm?
4.Please look on the animation of the inside of the sirius here - Do you know what's the idea behind those shaped board the crossing the box?Is it wood or some special acustic board?
If i manage to do the box round, how does those boards should be fix?
5.For the acoustic material that covering the cross from top-I found many kinds of acoustic materials Can you please recommend what should i put there?


Tweeter
There are 2 models :
042106N280 16 Ohm
042108N280 8 Ohm
Which one should be best for me?

For the crossover-can you please recommened for where to start?
Is the cross supposed to be from seciond order?


I still facing problem with the cones ... very hard to discribe to the turner which wants or a accurate draw or accurate size...can some one help with it?


Many thanks!

 

[tinitus]

For your suggestion to make the Box round and not square .
Your idea is very intreseting , would appricate your answer:

1.What are the advantage for round shape in such design?

3.For the box matrial - MDF 15 mm or Poplar bridge 15 mm?

4.Please look on the animation of the inside of the sirius

1. I also suggested what Boris shows in drawing
Making top mounting round would do, with ordinary square box
Thus no need to make round cylinder box
My concern was only on edges around the woofer

2. minimum 19mm, with bracing

4. inside baffles shown in video looks like a mix of both plywood and acoustic material
Serves two purposes
Bracing and deviding inner box into smaller triangulars
With a tall box you should always take exstra not to get horisontal standing wave, top to bottom, its the worst kind

hey, I like questions, no worry about that
but the many questions makes me worry that you will get a hard time to make this thing sing
well, with that much work and money, its ok to spend a few years making it work and to learn what it takes

But ofcourse its important to get the box design right from the start
You have to look at how you calculate a box from driver specs, and make the design choices from that
calculations are not hard, with modern software
the difficulty is in understand the complete design, and making the right decisions
its good to know a bit about how various drivers react with different box designs and tuning
type of driver, specs, etc
maybe evnen amps will change some things
and the room
but even so, it always holds small elements of gamling and luck

sorry, maybe a bit much, and confusing, but you asked
think about that the designer of this speaker has spent many years with just this particular design
not the easiets place to start

but there might be other ways around this design, that would be easier to handle

 

[avico78]

modeling the cones

I couldn't find any details for size of the cones.
In matter of fact , I couldn't even find a good picture for the cone - so i be able to take relative sizes ...
So i thought about some way to do it...
Modeling it with MAYA (3d software):
Basicaly I locate a the best picture i was able find in 2 views -fornt and from the side.

I drew lines accros the cone , made adjustment from both views using the lines vertex.
And then revolve it.

I attached some pictures .
If some1 have better picture it could be even more accurate ....

 

[oon_the_kid]

Hi WrineX,

Using a full ranger would not be suitable. I sort of tried it before. The problem is the treble, a high frequency, it tends to beam, leaving energy on the axis only. On the other hand the design is such that they have flat frequency response throughout the range. So when you add in a conical diffuser the total energy for the treble is severly reduced. You would need a speaker with a rising high frequency response to do that. I think some of the older speakers from mark audioexhibit such characterisitic..

Oon

 

[avico78]

Thanks Oon,


As i check in some place the compresion driver they use is this one:
ND2080 - HF Neodymium Driver

So as understand - a conical diffuser will not work with HF or work but need very special driver?can you please check and advice for the ND2080 if it will do the work?
I heard the bella luna which is almost same conecpt (conical diffuser for HF as well) and it sound like a dram , Do you think in the design where Diffuser will do bad for HF?

Currently im working hard to get the proper shape for the cones , espically for the HF where it's a bit problem cause i can't find any information for calculating the cone for HF.

For the lower box , Im planning to do it 70-75 lit.
See attached- graphs for 70 and 60 lit design with woofer and port 40*100 mm...
What do u think?Should i go for bigger box?
Is the box calculations are the same for reuhlar box (when the driver location in the front)?

Thanks a lot!!

 

[oon_the_kid]

Hi avico78,

Just to be clear on things, I am no expert on the suitable driver. Only commented that full range speakers are not suitable, since you can't adjust the balance between mids and highs. I reckon, your tweeter is prob ok as long as it is possible to adjust the level.

Oon