Which Sub Woofer is Good ? How To Choose

[horizonrays]

I am listing few drivers from different Vendors , please let me know which to choose .
1> Response 20-1000Hz > 2+2 4Ohm Coil > 12" 200W RMS
2> Response 20-1000Hz > 4 OHm Coil > 12" 200W RMS
3> Response 18-300 > 4 Ohm Coil > 12" 250W RMS

Please let me know which to choose and why ?

I will be using driver for subwoofer , i will tune my enclosure to get flat response down to 10Hz !

 

[chris661]

All woofers have certain sets of numbers associated with their characteristics.

If you want to see how low each will go, use a bass response modelling program (winISD is good), and try putting each set of numbers in (we call them Thiel-Small parameters, after the scientists that invented them). See what you can get out.

Chris

 

[horizonrays]

All woofers have certain sets of numbers associated with their characteristics.

If you want to see how low each will go, use a bass response modelling program (winISD is good), and try putting each set of numbers in (we call them Thiel-Small parameters, after the scientists that invented them). See what you can get out.

Chris

but criss manufacturer has not given any detail about Ts parameter on their site ! that's why i thought asking here would help me . i do not own the driver but i have to buy it !

 

[badman]

Those numbers are not sufficient to judge the best driver. I'd go with #3 if I had no other information available, it would possibly go deeper and handle more power but need a bigger box. All is speculation until a full spec set is seen though.

 

[godfrey]

Do you have the names of them, or pictures?

 

[horizonrays]

All those who need the driver names : Here i go

Sony XSL120P5A
Pioneer TSW304
Pioneer TS-W1208D4
Kenwood KFC-W3000L
JBL REF 12060W
JBL GT5-S12

Now ? Which one to choose ?

 

[MaVo]

I say choose the most badass locking one...

... if you dont want good sound.

 

[Richard Ellis]

10 Hz??

Trying to achieve a flat response down to 10 Hz is going to be very difficult.
The drivers you have selected are most likely of the Auto sub genre'. This being so your selections are all wrong. These are commercial brands that are marketed toward the kids with the obnoxious sounding cars. The stated specifications are rather meaningless without any supporting specifications.
The auto drivers are geared toward moving the most amount of air without any attention to distortions or non-linearities. The extreme excursions of said drivers really do sound terrible at the lowest of frequencies. The most likely reason these brands do not publish any T/S specifications is that they would be "railed" by the "Hi-fidelity" crowd.......as in US!
A tuned port box for such low frequencies would be around the size of two full-size freezers.....5 feet wide, 6 feet high, two and a half feet deep.........
Please reconsider trying for 10 Hz flat.

________________________________________________________Rick...

 

[Richard Ellis]

Found better for you!

I found a brand with some of these TS specs for you to give you an idea.
It is a "Vifa" brand subwoofer 12" Diameter..
Volume of a ported box at 3.704...cubic feet
"Tuned frequency" of the box at 24.102...Hertz
"Cutoff" frequency( Down 3 Decibels) at 26.797...Hertz
A pair of these set-up by doing the math will get you down there...but 10 Hertz?...won't go that low...& besides you can't hear that frequency anyway.

______________________________________________________Rick.......

 

[Aucosticraft]

1) You need to get the TS for the drivers at any cost if you seriously want to design a good Subwoofer.

2) Based on TS decide if the driver is suitable for Sealed enclosure or ported. you seem to be a a bit new for designing. so I would recommend you to go for sealed enclosure as this design is error tolerant.

3) Once you get Ts you can use free version of WinIsd to design. ( But I would advice you to do more homework before you just use the tool. understand importance of each parameters.

4)Don't run to get flat response down to 10Hz. Rather I would advice you to use subsonic filter and limit cone excursion.


Previously when I googled for drivers available in India I found Vifa is available with some stockist/ dealers. you will sure get Vifa's Ts on net.

 

[horizonrays]

Trying to achieve a flat response down to 10 Hz is going to be very difficult.
The drivers you have selected are most likely of the Auto sub genre'. This being so your selections are all wrong. These are commercial brands that are marketed toward the kids with the obnoxious sounding cars. The stated specifications are rather meaningless without any supporting specifications.
The auto drivers are geared toward moving the most amount of air without any attention to distortions or non-linearities. The extreme excursions of said drivers really do sound terrible at the lowest of frequencies. The most likely reason these brands do not publish any T/S specifications is that they would be "railed" by the "Hi-fidelity" crowd.......as in US!
A tuned port box for such low frequencies would be around the size of two full-size freezers.....5 feet wide, 6 feet high, two and a half feet deep.........
Please reconsider trying for 10 Hz flat.

________________________________________________________Rick...

I know i cannot hear the frequency , But 10hz frequency has lot of power it can be felt , wood and size is not that big issue for me .
-----------------> If i would have T/S parameter i wont ask this silly question ::
...
Ok Now make this question more thoeretical .
Considering All TS parameter are same except ::
One Frequency
One Has Response From 18-2000
One Has 18-1000
and One has Only 18-500
Which one will you choose ?

 

[horizonrays]

1) You need to get the TS for the drivers at any cost if you seriously want to design a good Subwoofer.

2) Based on TS decide if the driver is suitable for Sealed enclosure or ported. you seem to be a a bit new for designing. so I would recommend you to go for sealed enclosure as this design is error tolerant.

3) Once you get Ts you can use free version of WinIsd to design. ( But I would advice you to do more homework before you just use the tool. understand importance of each parameters.

4)Don't run to get flat response down to 10Hz. Rather I would advice you to use subsonic filter and limit cone excursion.


Previously when I googled for drivers available in India I found Vifa is available with some stockist/ dealers. you will sure get Vifa's Ts on net.

I have win Isd and other Box and Enclosure designing software but they wont work until i get T/S !!
Well this will be my first serious woofer project that's why i am researching !!
I am not able to get such driver which can do that 10Hz flat response so . No I wont do that.
Yes I will go for sealed Enclosure . I do not need to fake the Bass i want pure bass No faking !

 

[David_Web]

If it doesn't have TS parameters then don't use it. It's that simple. It is never worth it in the long run.

And to get any meaningful output at 10Hz, you need a good driver, and they always comes with TS.

"I do not need to fake the Bass i want pure bass No faking !"

Then stop caring about speakers without proper spec.

It would be different if you had something laying around that you could measure but if you buy new, buy good stuff.

 

[MaVo]

About the 10hz issue... do you watch movies in your car? If not, then 30hz are sufficient, as 99% of the music we hear has no audible music content below 30hz. (And even for movies, 20hz are pretty much enough, as you have to pump the volume up to insane levels to even hear a sub 20hz wave, which is totally impractical.)

 

[bjorno]

..I will be using driver for subwoofer , i will tune my enclosure to get flat response down to 10Hz !..

Hi horizonrays,

Here is an attempt to match your requirements using 15” woofers Kicker-05C154 but degraded to meet a 116 dB phon midband level at 20 Hz that will barely be heard but 10 Hz is reached flat.

See the pictures: First shown is a simulation of a TH that should be XO: ed at ~ 40 Hz and then passed over to ~ four T-TQWT’s in order to increase the BW up to 80 Hz.

If you choose a BR solution you will need more than 6 boxes. If you choose closed boxes, you probably need to cover a whole wall, see the calculations made in the first picture.

b

 

[chris661]

I'd agree with the 30Hz target.

With sealed, you'll get enough cabin gain to get to (at a guess) 25Hz audibly.

The subwoofer problem goes further - do you go for a low-resonance Hifi subwoofer, or something 18" with a really light cone (PA)?
I know where I'd go, but what does everyone else think?

 

[horizonrays]

Hi horizonrays,

Here is an attempt to match your requirements using 15” woofers Kicker-05C154 but degraded to meet a 116 dB phon midband level at 20 Hz that will barely be heard but 10 Hz is reached flat.

See the pictures: First shown is a simulation of a TH that should be XO: ed at ~ 40 Hz and then passed over to ~ four T-TQWT’s in order to increase the BW up to 80 Hz.

If you choose a BR solution you will need more than 6 boxes. If you choose closed boxes, you probably need to cover a whole wall, see the calculations made in the first picture.

b

woo that's too many parameter !

 

[horizonrays]

About the 10hz issue... do you watch movies in your car? If not, then 30hz are sufficient, as 99% of the music we hear has no audible music content below 30hz. (And even for movies, 20hz are pretty much enough, as you have to pump the volume up to insane levels to even hear a sub 20hz wave, which is totally impractical.)

Hehhe ! I will not use that woofer in car ! I will use that woofer in a 700S quare Feet Room !

 

[brookbh]

Most car subwoofers are low passed at either 63 or 80hz, so looking at their frequency response tells you little besides maybe about the drivers fs.

 

[horizonrays]

ok friends ! Here are some parameters for the speaker !
TS-W1208D4:-
Impedance : 4ohm + 4Ohm Dual Coil
Resistance : 3.2 Ohm
Inductance : 3.76mh @ 8ohm
Fs : 34.5Hz Qms : 16.43 Qes : 0.65 Qts : 0.62 Vas 34.64l xmax 0.41inch
sensitivity 92db
watts 400rms 12" diameter
---------------
TS-W308F
Impedance 4ohm
Resistance 3ohm
Qms 7,910 Qes 0,880 Fs [Hz] 26,3 Vas [l] 95,66
Sensitivity 84.6
watt 300rms 12" diameter
--------------
KFC-XW1202DVC
Impedance 2+2 ohm
Resistance 1.8+1.8 Ohm
Vas 94.16 liters Fs 23hz Qms 4.51 Qes 0.36 Qts .33 Xmax 6.4mm
sensitivity 93db 300watt rms 12"
----------------
Now tell me which one should I buy ? How down can I reach ?? Thanks !!