are ESL's, planars etc for me?

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Hi all,

My free time and brain cells being limited, I'm wondering if ESL's, planars etc might be a good match for me. I don't really want to head down what looks like a long path if it doesn't lead to where I might want to go!

I like the sound of open baffles. Something nice about that big full sound. I do like bass, esp. when it comes from big drivers that don't move alot. Big speakers seem to find acceptance in my living room (lucky me!). I like experimenting with new things.

Based on that, does it seem like any particular 'alternative technology' might be a good match? ESL's? Planars? Something else?
Is my love of bass a deal breaker here?

MrKramer
 
That all depends on the type of music you listen to.
If you just just want that big bad hip hop type bass then these aren't what your looking for, although they will work.
But if you want clean, colorless ,loud and a very precise ,acute and open sound stage with no undesireable distortions to be heard (except in the listening material) then these are the speakers for you.
If you have already heard a demo of some martinlogan (esl) or magenplanar (maggie's) then you probaly already have been bitten by the bug.
Then yes these are the type of speakers for you.
They can be DIYed on a simple budget and when it is all said and done you WILL NOT BE DISATISIFIED!
Trust me there are many here among us besides myself who can be a witness to this.
If you do choose to atempt such a seemingly fateful feat (which it isn't) we will all try to help you out the best we can.
Mavric is the latest to acomplish this task.
I have witnessed the sound of his panels (even if it was over the phone) and they were incredible, clean sounding and might I add very very loud.
If by any chance you do need more bass you can always add more sub's inorder to keep up with the mids and treble these things can produce.
Also if you like alot of deep clean bass a large dipole sub can also be done to match up to a esl or planar of your choice.
Most have used a transmission line type with great results .
I am personaly going for a dipole setup as I like my music loud and very clean reguardless of the type of material.
So the answer to your question"Is my love of bass a deal breaker here?" is, No.
It just all depends on what you want and prefer. jer
 
Sounds like what you would need is a hybrid ESL. This means you have a tall, narrow ESL element for all but the lowest (<300Hz) frequencies. The lowest frequencies could very well be supplied by one or two large (12") open baffle or H-baffle woofers, placed below the ESL element.

A good ESL would look big in the living room but it's only 1 or 2 inches thick. They need to be placed a little bit away from back wall.

A tall ESL has a very "big" sound, but the rumours about the "sweet spot" are very true. If you're not sitting in the right spot, treble rolls off very quickly. Depending on your perception, this is an advantage or a drawback. Personally, I think it's an advantage because the imaging is superior to normal speakers and anyway I don't walk around the room when listening.

Finally you need a capable amp to drive ESLs. Not so much lots-a-watts, but it needs to be reliable and work stable in difficult loads.

HTH, Kenneth
 
I agree with previous comments. See my signature below too.

This may not sound like current direction here, but something like the old Janzen concept would impress you greatly and help you overlook all limitations of ESLs.

His systems were two-way with a break around 1000 Hz, if I recall. Move the break a bit lower, and be able to blast good power into and out of the ESL panels (multiples are usually needed for dispersion) and you will be real happy.

Simplicity itself to make a small-box moving coil speaker handle 120-800 Hz with quality and add a mixed bass subwoofer.
 
Yes, anything heavier than Saran Wrap is only half-good. And if somebody makes stuff lighter than Saran Wrap, so much the better.

Real ESL die-hards don't consider magnetic or ribbon systems in the same level for the reason above. Also, not nearly the same challenging issues of tech wizardry and audio magic needed. And no high voltages and other arcana.
 
I love mine! with out a doubt. My journey took so long as i work six days a week and can only work on a Sunday. It is worth the effort, how can you know if you dont try? As far as bass, I have a powered sub that i use if it is a movie, music or what have you. Now, the mids and highs off a hybrid are "addicting", i have played litterly every cd i could find on mine to compare the audio quality to a traditional speaker, there is no words that can describe how accurate these are. And you, can have the satisfaction that "yes, i made that" instead of buying crap off crutchfield, like Charlie said, "you will be better off with two dixie cups and a string" nothing in my lifetime has sounded like this. I posted a start to finish if it helps.
I can never post my thoughts well, just me.
If you are in, we can provide the parts list and material from maufactures, i am sure everyone here has their favorite, but we all work together to achieve our goals.
If you get a chance, read my post. not much clutter and alot of pics.
 
Glad to hear the opinions given in this thread. I've recently purchased a set of Martin Logan Aeon speakers and won't be able to set them up for another 5-6 weeks (had them for about a month now). I got to listen to them for about an hour in less than ideal conditions and they sounded great. Anybody know how to make time pass faster?
 
Relocated for work. Living in a rental house without room to set them up. Bought a new house and moving in about 38 days, 12 hours, 28 minutes and 34 seconds. You can bet I'll have them wired up and singing about 3 minutes later.

...and by the way, the new city is landlocked and I really miss racing my sailboat too.
 
I see there is a esl company here in Santa Barbara called Beveredge audio. Maybe I'll get a chance to hear a panel speaker after all.

MrKramer

The Beveridge speaker uses a unique acoustic lens in front its flat panel that gives it a very wide dispersion pattern-- much wider [I suspect] than Martin Logan achieves with it's curved panel. I've not heard a Beveridge myself so I can only speculate but I'm certain the radical lensing will produce a completely different image than a flat panel electrostat; although it would likely have the same clarity and ultra-fast transient response. A flat panel electrostat will have a superior 3D image inside it's ultra-narrow sweet-spot but will sound progressively unbalanced moving outside of its sweetspot; whereas, the wide-dispersion Beveridge speaker would lose much of that magical imaging but would sound more balanced over a much wider area.

I've heard only rave reviews about the Beveridge but if you are considering a DIY project, I'm just pointing out that the Beveridge wouldn't be the best reference for what a typical DIY flat panel speaker would sound like. If you could find a store that sells Martin Logans, that would be a better comparison.
 
Not sure about current models, but earlier Beveridges had direct-drive high-voltage amps (like Sanders' amps). Take my word for it, using matching transformers with ESLs is not getting the whole benefit of ESLs.

Yes, there's beaming from flat panels, but I think more in theory (or with mics) than in real-world rooms and real music. Which makes it important but second-order, to my ears.

Just as having stereo sound is second-order to having great mono sound... you read it here first.
 
I agree,currently I have been running mono insead of stereo in order to sort at all of the little things and to not complicate things more.
Even running mono the sound is unbelieveable and can't wait to have a stereo setup.
Here are some pics of different configurations.
And not a one of them sounded bad by any means at all. jer
 

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I agree,currently I have been running mono insead of stereo in order to sort at all of the little things and to not complicate things more.
Even running mono the sound is unbelieveable and can't wait to have a stereo setup.
Here are some pics of different configurations.
And not a one of them sounded bad by any means at all. jer

Nice to see genius-at-work pictures!

Where-from are the white plastic ESL frames? Background and sources on other pieces would be nice to learn too.

Thanks.
Ben
 
thanks,Ben,The frames where from menards a home depot and lowes type of store.
The subwoofer is a radio shack PRO-CSW800 8".
I got 8 of them for $15 a piece when they discontinued them.
It is in a .65 cu.ft ported box tuned to about 28.5hz.
The group delay is very low with this configuration.
I have measured a THD as low as 2% to %5 from 100hz to 30hz respectively and is good up to about 1000hz to 1200hz.
IMO pretty impresive for a little 8 incher.
The microphone is a Peavey PVM 520TN.
I have been using audacity software as a sweep generator and spectrum analyzer ,it's free on the net and it is simple to use and works very good aswell.
The little speakers are sony SS-MB150H I got 4 pair of these for $20 a pair at radio shack aswell.
You can see the old marantz crossover that I was using in the first picture and the transformers I got as a clearence deal for $20 a peice at parts express,I got 10 of those and wish I had gotten a whole lot more when I still had the chance.
They are 35V 5amp toriodal and are the ones that I have been Experimenting with to drive the esl's with.
As you can see the quadstacked in the second picture and the doublestacked in the fourth picture.
Behind all of that mess you can see bits and sections of my switching type variable bias supply driven from a 555 timer. jer
 
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