"Push-Pull" for push und "Push-Pull" for pull (like Gamnut) - whats the right name?

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"Push-Pull" for push und "Push-Pull" for pull (like Gamnut) - whats the right name?

"Push-Pull" for push und "Push-Pull" for pull (like Gamnut) - whats the right name for this amplifier topology?
We find again and again new topologies. That kind in this thread don't match to the me good known kind of topologies (see schematics below).
I know until this day only "push-pull" (Super-ß complementary darlington and Sziklai resp. CFP dartington), some Single-ended variants and the transition topologies with only NPN BJT's or N-channel MOSFET's in the power output (quasi complementary and Totem Pole arrangements) like
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...better-audio-non-complements-audio-power.html

But what kind of topology are the follow circuits? To find more informations about "Google" I need the appropriate terms (key words)

Two examples for such topologies:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/66334-gamut-d200-clone-6.html (highly interesting thread)
(schematic go to post # 39) or - and
 

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Are those optocouplers? In my sims they always couple too slow to
take seriously as a quasicomplimentary solution. But maybe I'm just
not using them correctly? I woudn't trust any idealized models that
show no delay. I've not actually tried to build a push-pull with them.

I can't make out whats goin on in the first schematic. Way too many
parts with no specified values. I only comment on the second PDF.
 
Hi, tiefbassuebertr
Do you have full parts and value of this schematic.
I'm very interested. Thanks Anadigit
No; and this was the main reason for starting this thread. If we know the right terms in colloquial English (or danish - perhaps this topology was developed by GamuT), then we find all suited Informations (and patent paper's)

http://www.stereoplay.de/Testbericht/Gamut-International-A_S-DI-150_2114745.html
http://www.gamutaudio.com/
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1006/gamut_system.htm
 
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Same

Today I emailed to Gamut Audio and they said this schematic and PCB was stolen from service department by old worker (SIRIUS AMPLIFIER) !

They said this guy also sell this schematic and kits in Taiwan Ebay but I can't find it :confused:

Thanks
Anadigit
 
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Today I emailed to Gamut Audio and they said this schematic and PCB was stolen from service department by old worker (SIRIUS AMPLIFIER) !

They said this guy also sell this schematic and kits in Taiwan Ebay but I can't find it :confused:

Thanks
Anadigit

Very interesting; about Sirius I have found only this:
CES: SiriusConnect SC-V1 Audio/Video Tuner (Sirius Backseat TV) - Orbitcast.com
Sirius SC-V1 review - Car Videos
in the attached jpg-file you will find the logo of "SIRIUS".
The Question is, whether this is the same company - unlikely, because the name "Sirius" exist very often.
 

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Really? For me is a quasi complementary topology in a push pull output buffer stage follow:
A. Silicon:
1) for upper pos half a normal darlington topology (or triple)
2) for the lower neg half a Sziklai darlington (also called "CFP"; by use of triple replace the last transistor of this Sziklai darlington through a normal NPN darlington - like Quad 303)

B Germanium:
Basicly the same, but because germanium power devices mostly PNP devices, the upper half must be neg and the lower half pos.

All the other topologies like "Totem Pole" (at whole a wide range !!), that uses only NPN power devices in their output stages, for me definitely no quasicomplementary topologies - go to

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...better-audio-non-complements-audio-power.html

And the topology from this subject is complete different from that one mentioned in the thread from previous link; there is a independend true complementary push-pull driving (resp. OP-amp driving) by both upper and lower power device.

Only the fact, that only one kind of power devices in use don't for me allow the term "quasi complementary". And you will not find information about this topology by the use of this keyword in "Google".
The only present informations I find is about the URL from post #1
 
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Tiefbassüberträger

From the internet:
"Complementary is the adjective form of the word "complement." It means forming a whole or integrating to perfection or completion."
"A precise pairing of organic compounds pyrimidines and purines between the strands of RNA molecule or a DNA molecule in the world of bio-chemistry is also called as complementary. "

...I would say that in electronics a complementary pair is an NPN and a PNP (or n-channel and p-channel) that handles the positive and the negative cycle respectively, complementing eachother.

Quasi means "almost" ( ask Telstar - its Italian :D), and I would say that if you say "almost complementary", it would basically just describe the use of the two similar devices in positive and negative cycle, wich in the end-result complements eachother.

Anyway - I don't think that there are any specific terms, that HAS to be used scientifically or legally when describing a schematic - it is just helpfull if you were to desribe and categorize different topologies for a specific reason.
So if you fancy another name for this circuit, then please call it whatever you like!
:cool:
 
Tiefbassüberträger

From the internet:
"Complementary is the adjective form of the word "complement." It means forming a whole or integrating to perfection or completion."
"A precise pairing of organic compounds pyrimidines and purines between the strands of RNA molecule or a DNA molecule in the world of bio-chemistry is also called as complementary. "

...I would say that in electronics a complementary pair is an NPN and a PNP (or n-channel and p-channel) that handles the positive and the negative cycle respectively, complementing eachother.

Quasi means "almost" ( ask Telstar - its Italian :D), and I would say that if you say "almost complementary", it would basically just describe the use of the two similar devices in positive and negative cycle, wich in the end-result complements eachother.

Anyway - I don't think that there are any specific terms, that HAS to be used scientifically or legally when describing a schematic - it is just helpfull if you were to desribe and categorize different topologies for a specific reason.
So if you fancy another name for this circuit, then please call it whatever you like!
:cool:

This I know all
Complement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
quasi- - Wiktionary
But you do not distinguish between exact definition and colloquial term meaning (here in electronics/audio amp output power stages):
Sziklai pair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But we are in mean time "off-topic" (please read first post).

ANADIGIT: The SiriuS D100 was mentioned about this URL's:
HIFI4ALL.DK Forum: Valg af forstærker?
http://www.faktiskt.se/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=22913

I have found about Sirius also the model No D200 and DMS100
What system are you running??? - Classical Music Forums - Talk Classical

and here the relationship report between SiriuS and GamuT
GamuT D200

GamuT diyaudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/104705-fs-gamut-d200-mkiii-cloned-kits-set.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/10009-gamut-audio.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/5146-gamut-amp.html
The clone kits you will find from a wide range good known amps by the keyword "clone Amp" (about ebay), even one "First Watt" model. But don't buy such stuff, because nobody know exactly about the device quality standart !!!
 
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I recall to a patent paper concerning this topology. Here was mentioned the very low output impedance for driving even very high capacity loads of the output stage MOSFETs (by low driver stage idle current at the same time).
Also a very memorable term was mentioned therefore (that I hope to find out in this thread), but I don't recall that and don't recall the name of the inventor.
Actually Gamut must know it (also Mr. Nelson Pass - so I think).
The pdf schematic from #1 (voltamp.pdf) I have found about
http://wunderkis.de/voltamp/index.html.
This amp runs with +/-320V (!!), more than the most tube amps.
 
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No reply

I mailed to Analogguy but he never reply me :confused: I think he gone out of this site so long time ago (I check from his latest posted) but yesterday I found someone in Taiwan talk to this amplifier and show his cloned : :eek: and mailde to him.

MyAVµøÅ¥°Ó±¡ºô - Avantgarde°Q½×°Ï

He told me this PCB was a groupbuy in Taiwan for 4-5 years ago, So now I waiting for a link :)

Regard
Anadigit
 

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Various Circuit descriptions:

Quote from
GamuT D200 MK lll Muscle Power
Each output device is driven by a Class A push-pull amplifier, which can charge the gate up and down. The driver stage has a voltage source 15V higher than the output device voltage rail to help control the MOSFET when approaching maximum output. Power source is a 50OVA toroidal transformer with 30,00OgF of reservoir capacitance for each channel.

Given the high current capacity of the MOSFET devices, the limit on output is set by a sophisticated protection circuit with current and thermal sensors. For standard production, the limit is set for full output into a 1.5 ohm load. Panel and electrostatic speakers which dip down to 1 ohm impedance can still be driven; only transients which exceed the current protection limit will momentarily cause the Gamut to mute. The MOSFET package can dissipate 500W of heat into the aluminium case, chosen for its non-magnetic properties and thermal conduction. Finned heatsinks down each side keep the D200 running cool, even though there is a 130W of standing current, forcing the output stage into Class A operation for lower level signals.


Ouote from post #34 "Workhouse"
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...lass-ab-builder-needs-constantly-aware-4.html
Hi lumanauW,
Our topology is quasi-complementary, but with individual push-pull drivers.
We Dont know whether we pioneer IGBT's in audio amps or not, but one thing is for sure that we want to become the first professional amp manufacturer in this world to implement N-channel IGBT in Professional amp for PA use.
The Sound is totally different from the mosfets and certainly from the bipolars. The main difference is of damping factor which is around 1000 in our case and thats true indeed.


Quote from post #20 (Yamaha B2) about
VFET revisited - Page 2 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
The output stage consists of eight individually powered VMOS-FET output amplifiers. This precision amplifier array features individual push-pull drivers, high-speed power supplies and individual biasing to function as a single ultra-fast, high current output section. The result of these techniques is unprecedented fast settling and remarkable intertransient silence.

Here the Yamaha "B-2" thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/37247-any-info-manual-about-yamaha-b-2-a.html
 
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