Hi
I'm looking for suggestions for probably a Lowther driver based project.
I recently finished a pair of Enabled FE 207/FH17 Half Changs for my second system. I've been quite impressed with what they do. Big thanks to Planet Ten Dave for his patience and willingness to give advice and Scott for the design work.
Now I'm curious to see what people would recommend for a replacement speaker for my main system. Lowthers appear to be the next step up the ladder in wide band speakers so this is where I'm leaning.
-I listen to rock, blues, electronica/trance and some girl & guitar stuff pretty much in that order.
-The room is fairly live, 12 x 24 feet with std 8 ft ceiling.
-Speaker placement is fairly open - the current speakers are 6 feet out from the back wall.
-Amplifiers are not a serious issue. I have big and small power tubes, big and small power SS and an old pair of NuForce amps to play with. If any of these don't match up really well I would not be afraid to explore new options but from what I have on hand, I would have a very good idea where to look.
Budget is no more than $2K US for the drivers,
With my music preferences, I really want the bass to go at least as deep as the Half Changs.
They need to sound good a spl's of about 70-80.
The logical choice seems to be a Lowther based unit but I can't find a cabinet that goes down very deep. The Medallion is quite complex and large yet is only good to 60 Hz from what I've read about it and needs to be corner loaded to get that.
The MLTL seems to be best choice for bass, but does it get the best out of the driver over the rest of the frequency range?
It is the hands down winner for construction ease.
Lowther's Alerion seems like the sort of thing I'm looking for- reported as being very quick and open with bass to 45ish. Is there an open domain/purchaseable design plan very close to it?
Other driver /cabinet options? No OB designs - they just don't work for me.
I'm asking about this now as it is cabinet building season here in the frozen waste lands.
Thanks for any input from you.
Kevin
I'm looking for suggestions for probably a Lowther driver based project.
I recently finished a pair of Enabled FE 207/FH17 Half Changs for my second system. I've been quite impressed with what they do. Big thanks to Planet Ten Dave for his patience and willingness to give advice and Scott for the design work.
Now I'm curious to see what people would recommend for a replacement speaker for my main system. Lowthers appear to be the next step up the ladder in wide band speakers so this is where I'm leaning.
-I listen to rock, blues, electronica/trance and some girl & guitar stuff pretty much in that order.
-The room is fairly live, 12 x 24 feet with std 8 ft ceiling.
-Speaker placement is fairly open - the current speakers are 6 feet out from the back wall.
-Amplifiers are not a serious issue. I have big and small power tubes, big and small power SS and an old pair of NuForce amps to play with. If any of these don't match up really well I would not be afraid to explore new options but from what I have on hand, I would have a very good idea where to look.
Budget is no more than $2K US for the drivers,
With my music preferences, I really want the bass to go at least as deep as the Half Changs.
They need to sound good a spl's of about 70-80.
The logical choice seems to be a Lowther based unit but I can't find a cabinet that goes down very deep. The Medallion is quite complex and large yet is only good to 60 Hz from what I've read about it and needs to be corner loaded to get that.
The MLTL seems to be best choice for bass, but does it get the best out of the driver over the rest of the frequency range?
It is the hands down winner for construction ease.
Lowther's Alerion seems like the sort of thing I'm looking for- reported as being very quick and open with bass to 45ish. Is there an open domain/purchaseable design plan very close to it?
Other driver /cabinet options? No OB designs - they just don't work for me.
I'm asking about this now as it is cabinet building season here in the frozen waste lands.
Thanks for any input from you.
Kevin
Any particular reason you think that Lowthers are "the logical choice" for an upgrade? Or why OB designs don't work for you?
If you have enough power that sensitivity isn't a primary criteria, and you'd like to try something from a different stable than the Fostex, I'm sure there are other makers to look at.
Don't get me wrong- of the half a dozen or so Lowther based systems I've heard at hi-fi shows, I've quite liked 2 of them (except for the price, of course). However unless you've actually heard a pair yourself, it'll be hard to understand why folks say that they're not for everybody.
In any case, there are a few options for enclosures for Lowther drivers that quite likely outperform, or are easier to build than the published "factory" designs. In fact, some of the most elegant solutions for Lowthers, both in terms of performance and build simplicity would be 2-way Open Baffles, which don't necessarily need to be huge panels, and if your Changs are 6 feet out from the back wall, the "footprint" of an OB shouldn't be much of a problem .
In fact, the second of the 2 Lowther systems whose sound I could probably live with were these OB's (Tone Tubby woofer IIRC) demo'd by Jon ver Halen at VSAC 2008:
don't ask about the amps, courtesy of crazy Jeffrey Jackson ( Experience Music )
If you have enough power that sensitivity isn't a primary criteria, and you'd like to try something from a different stable than the Fostex, I'm sure there are other makers to look at.
Don't get me wrong- of the half a dozen or so Lowther based systems I've heard at hi-fi shows, I've quite liked 2 of them (except for the price, of course). However unless you've actually heard a pair yourself, it'll be hard to understand why folks say that they're not for everybody.
In any case, there are a few options for enclosures for Lowther drivers that quite likely outperform, or are easier to build than the published "factory" designs. In fact, some of the most elegant solutions for Lowthers, both in terms of performance and build simplicity would be 2-way Open Baffles, which don't necessarily need to be huge panels, and if your Changs are 6 feet out from the back wall, the "footprint" of an OB shouldn't be much of a problem .
In fact, the second of the 2 Lowther systems whose sound I could probably live with were these OB's (Tone Tubby woofer IIRC) demo'd by Jon ver Halen at VSAC 2008:
don't ask about the amps, courtesy of crazy Jeffrey Jackson ( Experience Music )
chrisb said:
Jon Ver Halen's Lowther/Tone Tubby design were my favorite speakers at VSAC, with the exception of the UnGodly, Enormous Goto driven Horns that Jeffery Jackson brought in his trailer from Tennessee.
Here's a report on VSAC:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/vsac_2008/
Best Regards,
TerryO
Hi
OK I sort of knew the OB thing would rear it's head.
I reasons against OB up to this point - I could be re-educated.
1) most are IN MY OPINION simply ugly and as the system is in my living room........
2) Most are too big from what I've seen / read about. If I wanted a speaker the size of a wall divider I'd have bought Maggie 3.6's years ago.
3) These things seem to demand complex crossovers and multiple amps to really shine. -I'm trying to simplify my system -not make it more complex.
Why "logically'? I like the Fostex single driver sound and the Lowthers are reported to be simlar just faster and more detailed and fall into my price bracket for drivers.
I'm most certainly not married to any thing at this point simply casting about for ideas. My price point excludes all the "exotics' and most of those work best in OB as well.
The main speakers are SF Cremonas - the HC's are in the secondary system.
The ONLY reason I'm thinking of a change is the Cremmies need to be played a bit louder than I'm happy with to really show what you paid for. I'm a condo dweller so this is a real issue for me. When the treble & mid open up the bass is really starting to energize the room along with my neighbours blood pressure.
I'm considering 3 things right now: build new speakers for the main set up, buy a new tone arm for one of my tables or buy/ build a nicer 300B for the HC system. This is to see if I can find something that may satisfy me on the speaker front.
Thanks for the input
Kevin
OK I sort of knew the OB thing would rear it's head.
I reasons against OB up to this point - I could be re-educated.
1) most are IN MY OPINION simply ugly and as the system is in my living room........
2) Most are too big from what I've seen / read about. If I wanted a speaker the size of a wall divider I'd have bought Maggie 3.6's years ago.
3) These things seem to demand complex crossovers and multiple amps to really shine. -I'm trying to simplify my system -not make it more complex.
Why "logically'? I like the Fostex single driver sound and the Lowthers are reported to be simlar just faster and more detailed and fall into my price bracket for drivers.
I'm most certainly not married to any thing at this point simply casting about for ideas. My price point excludes all the "exotics' and most of those work best in OB as well.
The main speakers are SF Cremonas - the HC's are in the secondary system.
The ONLY reason I'm thinking of a change is the Cremmies need to be played a bit louder than I'm happy with to really show what you paid for. I'm a condo dweller so this is a real issue for me. When the treble & mid open up the bass is really starting to energize the room along with my neighbours blood pressure.
I'm considering 3 things right now: build new speakers for the main set up, buy a new tone arm for one of my tables or buy/ build a nicer 300B for the HC system. This is to see if I can find something that may satisfy me on the speaker front.
Thanks for the input
Kevin
I really loved the Lowther DX3 in a Bob Brines LT2000 (which is an MLTL, which currently has FE207E's). But there's no way I would listen to rock on a Lowther in an MLTL. I tried listening to Steely Dan on them, and while the bass did indeed go down low, it didn't have the thump and bump required for rock / kick drum stuff - it excels in so many areas, just not rock in my mind.
What they did have was a freaky, eerie, palpable realism -- not the realism of the recording, but the realism of the actual instruments which would just jump out from the music and seem absolutely present. If you like that sort of thing, Lowthers may be for you. I have not heard the more upscale Lowther models, but the DX3 is not what I'd call smooth -- to me, it's some kind of euphonic, maybe resonant quality which I personally find pleasing (and which makes many other speakers sound dull by comparison to me), but some don't like it.
Personally, I would not spend the money until you can hear some.
The two Feastrex models that I've heard are smoother in my opinion, but not necessarily better, just different. Mr. Phil Townsend has graciously let me (and many others) hear his D5nf's (yummy!), D9nf's (sparkly!) and even his vastly more affordable FE126eN's (in Harveys and they ended up being my overall faves, because the whole package worked out to be a phenomenal match to the exact room). Still not a rock speaker though, in my limited experience.
The Alerion looks wonderful to me, I have not had the pleasure of hearing it. There are lots of BLH plans here: http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn-plans.html Also, random unrelated thought but I wish I could hear these someday: http://www.gedlee.com/Summa.htm
What they did have was a freaky, eerie, palpable realism -- not the realism of the recording, but the realism of the actual instruments which would just jump out from the music and seem absolutely present. If you like that sort of thing, Lowthers may be for you. I have not heard the more upscale Lowther models, but the DX3 is not what I'd call smooth -- to me, it's some kind of euphonic, maybe resonant quality which I personally find pleasing (and which makes many other speakers sound dull by comparison to me), but some don't like it.
Personally, I would not spend the money until you can hear some.
The two Feastrex models that I've heard are smoother in my opinion, but not necessarily better, just different. Mr. Phil Townsend has graciously let me (and many others) hear his D5nf's (yummy!), D9nf's (sparkly!) and even his vastly more affordable FE126eN's (in Harveys and they ended up being my overall faves, because the whole package worked out to be a phenomenal match to the exact room). Still not a rock speaker though, in my limited experience.
The Alerion looks wonderful to me, I have not had the pleasure of hearing it. There are lots of BLH plans here: http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn-plans.html Also, random unrelated thought but I wish I could hear these someday: http://www.gedlee.com/Summa.htm
Hi everyone
These are precisely the kind of opinions I'm looking for.
In many respects combinations that don't work are more valuable to know about than some that are just up to the end user to decide.
My rock preference really does limit the choices.
I've already talked to Planet Ten Dave about this and his offerings seem to be the big double mouth cabinets which have many of the draw backs as far as size goes as the OB's.
When it comes down to it, my chances of finding something that has the elegance, size and performance of the Cremonas seems to be pretty low.
A friend of a friend just aquired a pair of Rethm Saadhanas so I'm trying to wangle an audition. If I like them I probably should just wait about 6 months - this guy rolls equipment over at an amaing rate and they'll likely be available soon enough.
Thanks for all the help & suggestions
Kevin
These are precisely the kind of opinions I'm looking for.
In many respects combinations that don't work are more valuable to know about than some that are just up to the end user to decide.
My rock preference really does limit the choices.
I've already talked to Planet Ten Dave about this and his offerings seem to be the big double mouth cabinets which have many of the draw backs as far as size goes as the OB's.
When it comes down to it, my chances of finding something that has the elegance, size and performance of the Cremonas seems to be pretty low.
A friend of a friend just aquired a pair of Rethm Saadhanas so I'm trying to wangle an audition. If I like them I probably should just wait about 6 months - this guy rolls equipment over at an amaing rate and they'll likely be available soon enough.
Thanks for all the help & suggestions
Kevin
brownie said:
Oh, what about the SEAS Exotic? I have not heard them, and they seem a tad pricey, but they are under $2k and go in 2 cubit foot sealed:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=177&products_id=8320
rjbond3rd
Those Seas Exotics were on my list of ones I hoped people would comment on. I looked on as many sites as I know about and there just isn't much information available. Mr Pass said they worked well in an OB but not much more. The 2 cubic foot box made me perk up as that is in the ball park size wise and easy to build.
It seems they don't have the perceived value of some of the "proven" drivers but I can't find much more from anyone who actually bit the bullet and built the recommended sealed enclosure.
Maybe if I like the Rethms I might have to think about talking to Lowther America and see if they still have any of the Alerion boxes left. I'd have to do it in stages buy the enclosure then buy the drivers in a few months. It would never hurt to own a Terry Cain built speaker, man those are nice.
Thanks
KB
Those Seas Exotics were on my list of ones I hoped people would comment on. I looked on as many sites as I know about and there just isn't much information available. Mr Pass said they worked well in an OB but not much more. The 2 cubic foot box made me perk up as that is in the ball park size wise and easy to build.
It seems they don't have the perceived value of some of the "proven" drivers but I can't find much more from anyone who actually bit the bullet and built the recommended sealed enclosure.
Maybe if I like the Rethms I might have to think about talking to Lowther America and see if they still have any of the Alerion boxes left. I'd have to do it in stages buy the enclosure then buy the drivers in a few months. It would never hurt to own a Terry Cain built speaker, man those are nice.
Thanks
KB
I understand where you're coming from about OBs brownie; of many I've heard, the only two I I could listen to any time @ all were the one chrisb posted the picture of, and Phil's Festrex system. --And I must add the Lowthers were greatly helped by the 304TL transmitter tube amp; I heard it earlier w/ a different amp and couldn't stay in the room, it hurt my ears so bad..
For rock--I know a pair of Austin 166s w/ bag end clone subs for rear deflectors will more than fill that size room w/ sound, or do quite nice for late night, low level listening, using a FE166ES-R. Or could ck w/ Jon for which Lowther he'd recommend/had close TS parameters?
But if I were going to buy a Lowther, I wouldn't put it in a cab...
Something more like an Azura horn; that would pick up efficiency, and would really be able to handle all styles of music.
For rock--I know a pair of Austin 166s w/ bag end clone subs for rear deflectors will more than fill that size room w/ sound, or do quite nice for late night, low level listening, using a FE166ES-R. Or could ck w/ Jon for which Lowther he'd recommend/had close TS parameters?
But if I were going to buy a Lowther, I wouldn't put it in a cab...
Something more like an Azura horn; that would pick up efficiency, and would really be able to handle all styles of music.
Or maybe a combination of both, which I didnt find 
These guys play with some pretty expencive stuff
but less will do
Some will also have a ribbon supertweeter, or something else, like a Fostex tweeter
Pretty strange stuff, but rest asure that they have tried every other possible way
They are just very "fanatic" about Lowthers fore bass
Strange, ehh
Im sure at least midbass is special, with acoustic music
Though I doubt they like heavy rock very much
Fore doing such like this I would coctact Martin Seddon, very nice man
Though, his bigger Azura stuff will be be expencive to ship outside AUS
These guys play with some pretty expencive stuff
but less will do Some will also have a ribbon supertweeter, or something else, like a Fostex tweeter
Pretty strange stuff, but rest asure that they have tried every other possible way
They are just very "fanatic" about Lowthers fore bass
Strange, ehh
Im sure at least midbass is special, with acoustic music
Though I doubt they like heavy rock very much
Fore doing such like this I would coctact Martin Seddon, very nice man
Though, his bigger Azura stuff will be be expencive to ship outside AUS
Attachments
tinitus,
ah yes,
using a compression driver for highs, and a lowther for mid-bass!
my first thought was something more like this:
http://www.jeffreywjackson.com/exhilaration.htm
using the lowther for the top end, and a horn loaded 15" or so, and still keeping efficiency @ 107 dB.
Plenty of thump for rock, etc.
Although I still feel the next step up is compression driver bass horns, etc : http://www.jeffreywjackson.com/gotobass.htm ...
ah yes,
using a compression driver for highs, and a lowther for mid-bass!
my first thought was something more like this:
http://www.jeffreywjackson.com/exhilaration.htm
using the lowther for the top end, and a horn loaded 15" or so, and still keeping efficiency @ 107 dB.
Plenty of thump for rock, etc.
Although I still feel the next step up is compression driver bass horns, etc : http://www.jeffreywjackson.com/gotobass.htm ...
Hi everyone
Yikes I never even thought about compression drivers.
The design and execution is way over my head.
I think I'll look into it but put the project on the shelf while I do the required research.
I'm very new to the high eff. speaker world so what seems straight forward to many of you is a very large mystery to me.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Best regards
Kevin
Yikes I never even thought about compression drivers.
The design and execution is way over my head.
I think I'll look into it but put the project on the shelf while I do the required research.
I'm very new to the high eff. speaker world so what seems straight forward to many of you is a very large mystery to me.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Best regards
Kevin
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